Breaking:MSNBC-At least 6 SENATORS will rise plus more...

[art3]

Surpsingly, this hasnt been posted. Olbermann has just now updated his blog. he claims the challenge will occcur and be larger in scope than anticpated. he claims expect at least 6 senators will contest along with many members of the house. he also suggests we may face crisis. the event may continue for days. read his post, see why. if this is true, I bet it will be more than 6 tommorrow. Still, wait to actually see if this happens.
art
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/

[VTGold]

1. I think this is the happiest day I've had since Nov 2nd... n/t

[Laura PourMeADrink]

17. me2

[eowyn_of_rohan]

62. Moi Aussi

And tomorrow may be even HAPPIER!!!! PLEASE Let it happen....

[redacted]

72. All the Boxer offices we called had busy signals 2 hours ago

except one, Los Angeles, and that's where my wife was finally able to leave a message.

[zann725]

113. I left one there too. I suggest other try there as well.

n/t

[Dying Eagle]

2. Any word on

which senators will will rise?

[havocmom]

8. Wouldn't it be better to be surprised

and not have to worry about the safety of any outed Senators before the fact? :eyes:

[Dying Eagle]

23. i know curiosity killed the cat

but I am excited, I just want some more concrete proof this will happen. We don't need another big letdown.

[liberal N proud]

3. Can shrub be inaugurated if the challenge goes past the set date?

I may be getting ahead of my self here but just a thought that they would have to delay the inauguration.

[DoYouEverWonder]

40. We will be going

where no American has gone before....

[mostly_lurking]

50. The challenge has to be over tomorrow (by law)

After the 2 hours of debate both houses will vote.

Regardless of what happens, Bush still wins. All the challenge can do, in the unlikely event it succeeds, is throw out the Ohio slate of electors. There is no alternate slate to accept. In that case, Bush will win 266-252.

[Radio_Lady]

82. What happens if there is no quorum? n/t

[Radio_Lady]

83. I meant to post this quote about "no quorum" from KO

"The Majority is also worried about the possible absence of many of its members in both houses, and the prospect that a quorum might not be achieved, leading the process into uncharted, albeit not very threatening, constitutional grounds. There is a mathematical, if not practical, chance that the ratification of the Electoral College vote could be delayed past tomorrow."

[ebayfool]

127. That would be an interesting (& backhanded) way for repubs ...

to keep from having to vote for shrub & get him out?!
"Sorry I didn't vote for you Mr. Bush, I was snowed in at my hometown airport. Oh well, don't let the door ...!"
Yeah, I know - a fantasy! But since I'm not sleeping tonight, might as well dream!

1 - repub against *ush
2 - repub against *ush
3 - don't wake me, I'm counting snowed in GOPers!

[Peace Patriot]

85. Where did you get this information, mostly_lurking?

A couple of weeks ago, I heard a radio interview of (I think) someone involved in the litigation in Ohio who said that the Ohio Kerry Electors were going to meet, vote, and go to Washington. Sorry I can't remember who it was. (My memory says both Maxine Waters, L.A. Congresswoman, and/or someone connected to the lawsuit.) So, how do you know that "there is no alternative slate to accept." It would seem to me foolish of Conyers to proceed with this challenge without an alternative slate. What would be the point?

And in that case--if you are wrong about this--then several outcomes could result. If the Ohio Electors are awarded to Kerry, Kerry wins. This will not likely happen on the basis of fact and law--which is all on Conyers' side--but rather as a straight BushCon vote. What do they care about fact and law? Nothing.

If the Ohio Electors are rejected, and go into limbo--are awarded to neither candidate--then Bush probably wins (he still has more Electoral Votes) but there is a legal/rules question about his needing the full 270 votes (which he wouldn't have, without Ohio).

However one evaluates the chances of something happening, it's important to know what's possible, and what's dreamable, as well as what's likely. What's likely is that we're all going to die. Should you therefore live in constant terror that it might happen in the next second?

The great people, the creative people, the people who bring light into this world, always dream great dreams, and push the limits of the possible and the likely.

Real democracy requires that we find our genius and greatness as a collective body of citizens. And that collective body, us, needs dreams, such at that conveyed to us by Martin Luther king, as well as practicalities.

[Amaryllis]

91. Thanks for that really inspirational post!

[Andrea]

104. Wow, great post

Thanks for reminding me why I am the way I am. This is important for all of us to remember.

[bush_is_wacko]

105. Wow! Any chance you might run for office someday?

"The great people, the creative people, the people who bring light into this world, always dream great dreams, and push the limits of the possible and the likely.

Real democracy requires that we find our genius and greatness as a collective body of citizens. And that collective body, us, needs dreams, such at that conveyed to us by Martin Luther king, as well as practicalities."

I think this is what most of us here at DU believe that is why we fight so hard.

[njdemocrat106]

111. Great post, thanks!

I'm still hopeful for tomorrow!

[thanatonautos]

124. Alternative slate, alternative reason for objection.

A couple of weeks ago, I heard a radio interview
of (I think) someone involved in the litigation in Ohio who
said that the Ohio Kerry Electors were going to meet, vote,
and go to Washington. Sorry I can't remember who it was.
(My memory says both Maxine Waters, L.A. Congresswoman, and/or
someone connected to the lawsuit.) So, how do you know that
"there is no alternative slate to accept."

I don't know what happened about this, but heard the same
discussion. I think it was on Randi Rhodes, and indeed
Maxine Waters has been on her show, discussing these
issues.

But I think it will be argued that an alternate slate
of electors must be appointed by some legitimate power
of the State of Ohio. There are requirements of form
under 3 USC (1) Section 6 for a slate of electors, and
the type of paperwork which must be presented for the
electoral votes to even be considered. In the disputed
election of 1876, for example, there were conflicting
slates, from the executive and legislative branches of
the States of South Carolina, Louisiana, and Florida.

It would seem to me foolish of Conyers to proceed with this
challenge without an alternative slate. What would be the point?

I don't think it would necessarily be foolish.

Even making the objection to the single slate would
serve to establish on the record that there were serious
objections to the flawed nature of the election, to
the disenfranchisement of voters that occurred. Also,
possibly it could establish that Congress may look
behind the electoral votes, at potential fraud in
the State elections.

Anyway let's hope that some Senators do stand up!

[jmknapp]

108. God, that would be so cool

"All the challenge can do... is throw out the Ohio slate of electors."

[thanatonautos]

122. 3 USC (1) 17 sets a time limit on debate of 2 hours per objection, but

it does not require the challenge to be
over by tomorrow.

You do, however, describe a likely course of events.

§ 17. Same; limit of debate in each House

When the two Houses separate to decide upon an
objection that may have been made to the counting
of any electoral vote or votes from any State, or
other question arising in the matter, each Senator
and Representative may speak to such objection or
question five minutes, and not more than once; but
after such debate shall have lasted two hours it
shall be the duty of the presiding officer of each
House to put the main question without further debate.

The procedure is layed out in Section 15.

§ 15. Counting electoral votes in Congress

Congress shall be in session on the sixth day of January
succeeding every meeting of the electors. The Senate and
House of Representatives shall meet in the Hall of the
House of Representatives at the hour of 1 o’clock in the
afternoon on that day, and the President of the Senate shall
be their presiding officer. Two tellers shall be previously
appointed on the part of the Senate and two on the part of
the House of Representatives, to whom shall be handed, as
they are opened by the President of the Senate, all the
certificates and papers purporting to be certificates of
the electoral votes, which certificates and papers shall
be opened, presented, and acted upon in the alphabetical
order of the States, beginning with the letter A; and
said tellers, having then read the same in the presence
and hearing of the two Houses, shall make a list of the
votes as they shall appear from the said certificates;
and the votes having been ascertained and counted according
to the rules in this subchapter provided, the result of the
same shall be delivered to the President of the Senate, who
shall thereupon announce the state of the vote, which
announcement shall be deemed a sufficient declaration of
the persons, if any, elected President and Vice President
of the United States, and, together with a list of the votes,
be entered on the Journals of the two Houses. Upon such
reading of any such certificate or paper, the President
of the Senate shall call for objections, if any.

Every objection shall be made in writing, and shall state
clearly and concisely, and without argument, the ground
thereof, and shall be signed by at least one Senator
and one Member of the House of Representatives before
the same shall be received.

Threshhold for objections: they must be written
and hold a signature from one Representative and
one Senator.

When all objections so made to any vote or paper from
a State shall have been received and read, the Senate
shall thereupon withdraw, and such objections shall be
submitted to the Senate for its decision; and the Speaker
of the House of Representatives shall, in like manner,
submit such objections to the House of Representatives
for its decision; and no electoral vote or votes from
any State which shall have been regularly given by
electors whose appointment has been lawfully certified
to according to section 6 of this title from which but
one return has been received shall be rejected, but
the two Houses concurrently may reject the vote or
votes when they agree that such vote or votes have
not been so regularly given by electors whose appointment
has been so certified.

So if a contested vote is decided to have been regularly
given and lawfully certified according to section 6 by
both houses, the challenge will fail at this point.
Whether the challenge to a vote fails or succeeds
depends in principle upon what is written in the
objection to the vote, however, in practice it is
extremely likely that, given the political makeup of both
houses of Congress, the objections will be rejected at
this point, by majority votes in both houses.

The key words here for considering objections are
clearly regularly given, and lawfully certified.
We can well imagine that the objection will be
to the lawfully certified part, in this case,
and that it will fail.

However, it will have been a major achievement to
have forced such an extraordinary proceeding, and the
written objections as well as their precise wording
will be on the congressional record.

There will be a record for posterity in indelible
ink that there were serious objections to the flawed nature
of this election. The importance of that, even if
that is all that occurs, should not be underestimated.

This procedure last took place in 1969, when a Senator
and a Representative rose to object to the vote of an
elector from the State of North Carolina, who cast his vote for
George Wallace and Curtis Lemay. The objection was
rejected by both Houses of Congress, and the vote was
counted as it was cast, the reason being that North
Carolina did not bind its electors to vote for the
candidate who carried the State. So faithless electors
are allowed. The opposite case has never been tested,
that is, when an elector who comes from a State which
does bind its electors switches his or her vote.

Section 15 then continues:

If more than one return or paper purporting to be a
return from a State shall have been received by the
President of the Senate, those votes, and those only,
shall be counted which shall have been regularly given
by the electors who are shown by the determination
mentioned in section 5 of this title to have been
appointed, if the determination in said section
provided for shall have been made, or by such successors
or substitutes, in case of a vacancy in the board of
electors so ascertained, as have been appointed to fill
such vacancy in the mode provided by the laws of the State;
but in case there shall arise the question which of two or
more of such State authorities determining what electors
have been appointed, as mentioned in section 5 of this
title, is the lawful tribunal of such State, the votes
regularly given of those electors, and those only, of
such State shall be counted whose title as electors
the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently
decide is supported by the decision of such State so
authorized by its law; and in such case of more than
one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State,
if there shall have been no such determination of the
question in the State aforesaid, then those votes, and
those only, shall be counted which the two Houses shall
concurrently decide were cast by lawful electors
appointed in accordance with the laws of the State,
unless the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently
decide such votes not to be the lawful votes of the
legally appointed electors of such State.
But if the two Houses shall disagree in respect of the
counting of such votes, then, and in that case, the
votes of the electors whose appointment shall have
been certified by the executive of the State, under
the seal thereof, shall be counted. When the two Houses
have voted, they shall immediately again meet, and the
presiding officer shall then announce the decision of
the questions submitted. No votes or papers from any
other State shall be acted upon until the objections
previously made to the votes or papers from any State
shall have been finally disposed of.

So in principle, when there are objections in multiple
States, the Houses of Congress may be forced to withdraw
separately multiple times to dispose of the objections
arising as the electoral votes of the States are read
out in alphabetical order.

Section 6 states:

§ 6. Credentials of electors; transmission to Archivist
of the United States and to Congress; public inspection

It shall be the duty of the executive of each State,
as soon as practicable after the conclusion of the
appointment of the electors in such State by the final
ascertainment, under and in pursuance of the laws of
such State providing for such ascertainment, to
communicate by registered mail under the seal of the
State to the Archivist of the United States a certificate
of such ascertainment of the electors appointed, setting
forth the names of such electors and the canvass
or other ascertainment under the laws of such State of
the number of votes given or cast for each person
for whose appointment any and all votes have been
given or cast; and it shall also thereupon be the
duty of the executive of each State to deliver to the
electors of such State, on or before the day on which
they are required by section 7 of this title to meet,
six duplicate-originals of the same certificate under
the seal of the State; and if there shall have been
any final determination in a State in the manner
provided for by law of a controversy or contest
concerning the appointment of all or any of the
electors of such State, it shall be the duty of the
executive of such State, as soon as practicable after
such determination, to communicate under the seal of
the State to the Archivist of the United States a
certificate of such determination in form and manner
as the same shall have been made; and the certificate
or certificates so received by the Archivist of the
United States shall be preserved by him for one year
and shall be a part of the public records of his office
and shall be open to public inspection; and the Archivist
of the United States at the first meeting of Congress
thereafter shall transmit to the two Houses of Congress
copies in full of each and every such certificate so received
at the National Archives and Records Administration.

So, the electoral votes must be duly communicated,
according to the laws of Ohio, and under the Seal of
the executive of the State of Ohio ... whom I take to
be the governor.

Here's hoping that a number of Senators will sign
the objections.

[henslee]

4. Solidarity. Love it.

[chomskysright]

22. I hope Mr. Dell loses all his donated money....

$250,000 Dell donated to inauguration. That would be such a pity.

[Helga Scow Stern]

57. Which Dell? n/t

[spotbird]

5. I'll believe it when I see it.

Wouldn't it be nice if elections became free as a result of this?

[Cobalt Violet]

28. We need to demand nothing less than that. n/t

[femme.democratique]

64. So, if this 6 number holds true, who wants to predict the Senators?

Heres my list:

Chafee
Boxer
Feingold
Byrd
Mikulski
Lautenberg
(alternate)
Biden

Am I nuts?

[borealowl]

73. list

I'm not so sure about Lautenberg or Biden. I think Stabenow and Corzone, maybe Jeffords. It would be nice if the new minority leader, Reid, would join...then there'd be more of em.

[mulethree]

80. What! my senator doesn't care about Democracy?!?

If Santorum, or even Specter signs on I'll be needing
a clean set of shorts.

[sunnybrook]

89. What about Senator Kerry?

Is he on the list? Will he stand up or will he fear being called sore loser and sit this one out, letting others stand up? What about Joe Leiberman for goodness sakes? What do you guys predict about Kerry and Leiberman, who should have more incentive than anyone in there to stand up?

[Amaryllis]

92. Kerry is in Iraq.

[sunnybrook]

97. Just found out Kerry is in Iraq...

haven't kept up with the news much lately... just had to come check out DU because I got an email from both Michael Moore and Kerry in the same day. As usual this forum rocks! Gettin' back up to speed...

[zann725]

114. I also just got a form email from JK...he's NOT joining the objection.

But wants us to write our congress people, then let him know via email.

I won't comment on his email, because I refuse to be negative at this crucial time. But aside from JK, looks like our "base" is truly energized! And I'll be the Senate has never had SUCH a response to any issue! Can you imagine their amazement!

[Gloria]

98. Snowe and she could bring along her sidekick, Collins

You might also consider Hagel and possibly Lugar and Grassley, simply because they are not afraid to take on Bush and they seem to have some regard for the way things used to be.

And then there's Voinovich form Ohio itself. He slammed the Bush tax cuts and is against ANWR and was snubbed by Bush when the Chimp visited Ohio. There's no love lost there. He's also considered to be a moderate.
He's very popular so he might just cross as well.

My friend and I worked up a list of possible Gop'ers who could join with 44 Democrats (we thought we had 45 though, because Kerry hadn't announced the dates of his travel). These were some of the names we
came up with, along with some mentioned on other posts.

And remember... didn't Conyers indicate that there were Republicans who were also interested in a fair vote who weren't ready to come forward????

[mod mom]

6. Please please please be true-LET DEMOCRACY LIVE!

[mzmolly]

7. Woah!

"Nothing is in writing and daybreak is a long way away, but it appeared all but certain in early evening Wednesday that House Democrats had secured the support of up to half a dozen Senators to formally challenge the Electoral College slate from Ohio, when the votes are opened before a joint session of Congress tomorrow."

I'm getting my tissue box ready just in case ... oh and a bottle of good Champagne!

[zann725]

116. Let's keep visualizing what it will look and feel like!

I keep visualizing jumping up, tears running down my cheeks, and hooping and hollering as Senators stand up...one by one!
Of course in my visualization, JK also comes through the door at the last minute...surprising everyone. But that last part is just my version. It does give the whole Movement a 'bump' though.

Keep hope alive!

[politicaholic]

9. Wouldn't it be beautiful if all of the democrats rose in a show of unity?

Oh god...now I'm sounding sappy.

[BigBearJohn]

13. Not sappy at all. It would make me happy for years to come

[loritooker]

61. Alas, it is my fantasy.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

10. Hallelujah !!!!!! Maybe they read Conyer's Report !!!!!!!!!!!!

[BigBearJohn]

11. What time tomorrow should I watch t.v.? Does anyone know?

[IndyPriest]

74. The "festivities" are supposed to get underway at 1pm

But, with rumors flying of a contest, and perhaps to several states, it wouldn't surprise me at all that they're going to have to take some time to figure out how to do this. Ain't been done in a long time. Even if some parliamentarian reads the rules, there's going to be a LOT of debate about how to do the debate. This could go on for a while. I wouldn't be surprised if they got to the roll call of the states on Friday.

[fooj]

12. Yes!!! I had a feeling if it happens it's gonna be big...

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[sunnybrook]

84. want to share in your frog jumping enthusiasm

but I am scared to death to get my hopes up in any way. After election night and thinking Kerry was winning and all that happened since... I am like someone who has been heartbroken and can't trust love again. Sounds dramatic, but I was so heartbroken that I'm afraid to get my hopes up. For now I'll live through you and your enthusiasm and hope for something spectacular tomorrow...

[fooj]

117. sunnybrook- we'll connect tomorrow...

and we'll :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: together, OK? Can't even think about:cry: !!! Keep HOPE alive!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

14. is C-SPAN covering????

[icehenge]

51. Yes

It will be in my area, check the TV listings.
1pm Jan 6th. for my area.

[Amaryllis]

94. House on C-span one and Senate on C-span two if a senator challenges and

they split up so you will have to be going back and forth between one and two or watch one on your computer and one on your TV! I am getting a friend to tape one and I am taping the other.

[Erika]

15. Yes!!! n/t

[TexasChick]

16. Like O M G! Maybe there's hope in saving American democracy

afterall.

[Farmgirl]

18. I want to believe this with all my heart...but I will wait patiently

for another 24-hours (or less) to see what happens.

I'll be at work all day tomorrow without any connections to the internet...so please, please, please folks post a point-by-point break down of what happens!

I think we all need and deserve this: :grouphug:

[BigBearJohn]

19. Yeah, especially if even a couple of repugs join in. Can u Imagine

[WilliamPitt]

20. "all but certain"..."not yet formalized"

Folks, we are not home yet. Keith is falling for the wanna-be-the-first-to-break-the-story fever.

[GardeningGal]

35. Comments like that make me nervous

I hope it's just trying to keep us in line and not that you know something that will burst our baloon.

Wish I were in DC - just had too much work to get done.

[Pirate Smile]

67. Is that WBTFTBTS fever why he is on his sick bed?

[Amaryllis]

95. Will, I appreciate how you always confirm and don't jump on things till

you are sure! makes me know I can always trust what you report.

[Cobalt Violet]

21. Woo Hooooooo!

:bounce: This is going to be great. We have waited and worked hard for this.

[whalerider55]

24. i hope that i can...

spend a little time abjectly apologizing on DU tmrw night for expressing doubt that a single senator would stand up.

i still have my doubts, but i've never wanted more to be proved wrong.

welcome aboard, friend. and auspicious debut.

whalerider55

[FreepFryer]

25. There is hope! The future is in OUR hands! Believe in Liberal Democracy!

[HeeBGBz]

26. Will this be on C-span?

[rockedthevoteinMA]

37. cspan at 1PM n/t

[latteromden]

27. Okay, I've been literally SHAKING since I read this.

I think most of us understand that this won't change the results, and that's not the purpose, anyway. Just realize that the senators that stand up are standing up for us, and for our right to vote. If they stand up, they really care about the country, and we can't afford to lose them.

[zann725]

118. We should quit saying "this won't change the results"...

at least until all the cards play out. I realize this is the phrase the Dem's have been using thus far, but they're trying to minimalize the anger and resistance from Repugs by acting like, "Gee wiz, if we just get to investigate the irregularities..."

I remain optimist to the end! Let's not limit our possibilities quite yet.

I did hear this morning that Filibustering was being considered. That would be hopeful!

[roenyc]

126. You are right

I will not change the person who sits in the oval office for now, but it will change how everyone views that man who sits in that office.

his inauguration will be a joke. it will no longer be a mandate of the people but another illegitimate selection. this time by the republican majority congress. without the electors of the state of Ohio. please please please!!

so his mandate and his smirk and his damn giggle and that damn capital of his becomes total garbage in view of not earning this election.

and No we will Not Get Over It! Never! Not even after he is impeached. what they have done cant be forgiven.

[Liberty Belle]

29. No quorum? Are the REPS planning a no-show?

See no evil, hear no evil... Jeez. I'm sick of the GOP refusing to so much as listen to the mountain of evidence here.

I suppose we should pressure the MSM to cover the session tomorrow, on the off chance that they'll actually do it. Just imagine if 6 brave Senators present evidence of fraud, and the GOP seats are all empty! That would wake up Americans to the truth.

[meganmonkey]

30. "ALL BUT CERTAIN"

Strong words, but not quite the same as 'certain'... We'll find out soon enough (well, not nearly soon enough)!

Oh boy!!

[booksenkatz]

31. This # of goosebumps on my body is positively painful

Ouch! I'd sure be impressed to see that. Even if it means we still don't win, it is the fight and the exposure and what it represents that is every bit as important.

[Liberty Belle]

32. Contact the others! Say there are 6 or more. You won't be alone!

[rumpel]

33. Can't wait to see.

[Pirate Smile]

34. Please be completely accurate with your language - "at least" doesn't

quite match what he says:

"but it appeared ALL BUT CERTAIN in early evening Wednesday that House Democrats had secured the support of up to half a dozen Senators to formally challenge the Electoral College slate from Ohio"

Conyers probably has UP TO 6 Senators.

I just don't want people to be upset if it is four or something. How things are worded is important. "All but certain" is a qualifier too but it does sound good.

[Terre]

47. I'll take just one

which is all we technically need. If it's MORE - I'll be estatic!! If it's "just" four - thank God for wonderful miracles.

[cpwicks]

36. Wash. state senator voice mails full

I was surprized when I called Patti Murray and Maria Cantwell today--their v-mail boxes are full in DC. I called Seattle offices and the staffers I spoke with both said they had had hundreds and hundreds of calls requesting the senators to stand with Conyers.

Maybe we're all doing this so at least 6 senators somewhere are going to buck up and stand up for us!

[jimshoes]

38. That will certainly jolt

the sleeping masses awake. It will be the first time most Americans will have heard of voting fraud in this election. There will be a lot of stunned people tomorrow wondering why they hadn't heard about it. Good job MSM, you've really stepped in it.

[pick_a_dilly]

39. PUT UP OR SHUT UP TIME FOR THE Dems . . .

said it before i'll say it again . . .

if they do not stand up they are DEAD TO ME. i will never vote, give to, support in any way a Dem.

if they do not stand up they are conspirators to me. Period.

that said ... I BELIEVE!!!!!

[moesse]

128. I agree - they need to use their voices

OUR VOICES or I who've been very loyal for ten years will leave and never look back at the Dem Party.

[blitzburgh55]

41. Will this be on TV tomorrow

CSPAN or somewhere and what time? I can't wait to see the shit hit the fan.

Great job Conyers and the others that will be standing up against the :puke:s

:toast:

[Firespirit]

42. This brings tears to my eyes...

PLEASE happen!!!

Please don't be another letdown!

*praying*

[shraby]

44. C-Span tomorrow at 1 p.m. eastern time

[Radio_Lady]

81. Thanks so much for posting -- 11 AM Pacific Time

I'll be tuned in -- oops, have to watch a grandchild tomorrow. So I'll tape it --

[Peace Patriot]

88. If it's 1 pm Eastern, then it's 10 am Pacific, right?

I need to know. Does daylight saving time shrink the 3 hour time difference to 2 hours? I feel so ignorant!

[Amaryllis]

96. Right . 10:00 Pacific. House on C-span 1, Senate on C-span 2 if they split

for debate if senator challenges.

[Qutzupalotl]

43. YESSS!!!

That is AWESOME!!!

:D

[indepat]

45. We already are and have been in crisis

[Melissa G]

46. Kick for Senators finding their Gonads and their senses! n/t

[slutticus]

48. Wow.

I'll be watching.

[Democrat Dragon]

49. I'm sorry but.....

Didn't we question Keith's reliability a week ago?

[keepthemhonest]

52. i said in the poll 5-9 would stand up

yeah i win the prize ten right?

i can't wait until tomorrow.it is going to be big and justice will be served.i think they should show bush's face while the proceeding's are going on.You know like the debates, all of those lovely faces,like a child.

[loudsue]

68. LOL!! I voted 5-9 also! But I hope it's a LOT more than 9!!

:bounce: I hope they ALL stand up!! And a few republicans, too!! :bounce:

O8) That would be SSWWWEEEEEEETT!! O8)

:kick::kick::kick:

[Quakerfriend]

53. I'm more nervous than I was on Nov 2nd!!

O8)

[tinfoilinfor2005]

54. Got a reply from Bill Nelson to my letter...

he said that the GAO and EAC are blah blah blah and he has always been a champion for blah blah blah...but in the end the message seemed pretty clear that he wouldn't be signing. I held his feet to the fire a bit because I attended several Kerry rallies last year in Florida where Senator Nelson expounded on voter's rights, and I rubbed it in that I hoped he was not just giving us lip service. I guess we'll find out tomorrow...

[BrotherBuzz]

119. LOL, I got the same damn reply!!!!

Blah, blah, blah.

Hey, maybe he really isn't going to contest Ohio...but rather, Florida! You know, start a flank attack and really put things into motion.;)

[Nictuku]

55. Tomorrow will be very telling

I don't think I'm alone here, but if there are no senators standing up to represent the people, I can't remain a supporter of the Democratic Party. Perhaps the Senators realize that the Party itself is at risk here.

The Greens are looking very appealing to me right about now.

[progressiveandproud]

110. Ditto

I like to consider myself a Green Democrat. As far as I'm concerned, only those Democrats who stand up tomorrow, or who at the very least commit to supporting Rep. Rush Holt's bill on verifiable voting (or the counterpart bill in the Senate), have my support.

By the way, I just learned this evening (at a local Democracy for America meeting) that there's a Green Democrat group in my county! How exciting!

[shiina]

56. read carefully..."it appeared all but certain"

I'm not being pessimisstic, I do believe Senators will stand, but I just wanted to point out that the blog does not say for certain that they will. It says it "appeared all but certain in early evening Wednesday that House Democrats had secured the support of up to half a dozen Senators"

[Clark2008]

58. Keith Olbermann is my hero...

And so is Will Pitt!
And Nashville_Brook.
And my son.

I love today!

(I just hope I'm happy tomorrow!)

[bunny planet]

63. This is what I'll be doing............

[lonestarnot]

77. I LOVE DU!

[Helga Scow Stern]

59. It doesn't necessarily mean we should let up. Whether they stand or not

we are going to have to keep the pressure up for some time now.

[spooked911]

60. these guys may yet restore my faith in Democracy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

O8)

[lizzieforkerry]

65. I pledge to personally donate all that I can to any Senator that

stands tomorrow and is running for re-election. Let this be a windfall for them!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

66. Great idea!

[loudsue]

69. You got that right, Lizzie....and we need to let them KNOW that we'll be

donating to their campaigns next time.

And, on the other hand, we need to let those who DO NOT stand up know that we will be doing everything we can to replace them in the primaries with a TRUE American, who actually gives a damn about the right to vote in our country....someone who cares about the will of the people.

:kick::kick::kick:

[Catherine Vincent]

70. Oh my. That's what I was hoping for.

After watching his show today, the sub didn't sound too enthusiastic about.

[MsConduct]

71. art3 welcome to DU! Thanks for the link. n/t

[lonestarnot]

75. WOOOOOOWW!

FAROUT! Gotta wait till 10p.m. to watch.:-)

[lonestarnot]

76. Still sending telegrams in case they forget!

[Tomasj]

78. YAHOO!! True Americans!.

[sarahlee]

79. Add a little more pressure to Corzine and Lautenburg

From Brad on the Kucinich forum:

http://www.kucinich.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=480

--QUOTE--
I was just informed on my Green listserve that two senators from New Jersey, Corzine and Lautenburg, are close to "standing up" with their votes too. They could be part of the "dozen" Olbermann is talking about. Unfortunately, many senators are quick to brush off any participation as "political suicide" but these two guys in New Jersey seem to be mavericks. Let's keep our fingers crossed!

I'm including contact info in case anyone can make a last minute phone call...

Corzine
Washington Office:
502 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510-3004
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Main District Office:
1 Gateway Center, 11th Fl.
Newark, NJ 07102
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

-------
Lautenberg
Washington Office:
324 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510-3003
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Main District Office:
One Gateway Ctr.
Newark, NJ 07102
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Congressional switchboard:
800-839-5276

[fearnobush]

93. Msg from Monmouth Dems:

"YES! We just called DC...Lautenberg's office didn't even take our names...said they are SWAMPED with calls!!"

Keep up the pressure.

[sarahlee]

101. Great news!

Thanks!

[njbuddy]

123. It would be an incredible feeling

to see both of Jersey's senators stand up! :grouphug:

[buddysmellgood]

86. Damn. I so wanted to be in D.C. tomorrow but I blew my money on Ohio.

[peacetalksforall]

87. Don't trust NBC. They are accomplices to the theft. They are

operatives of the right.

[Gloria]

99. Yeah, I've been wondering why this hasn't gone any further

than Olbermann's blog in terms of media....not that I doubt Olbermann, but why is he the only one with this info??? Or are other outlets trying to ignore it??

[Imagevision]

90. Even FOXnews has a piece about tomorrow's expected objections

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,143452,00.html
<snip> WASHINGTON — When the joint session of Congress meets Thursday to certify the Electoral College votes that gave President Bush his second term, several Democratic House members are expected to contest the results.

[ClintCooper2003]

100. Maybe all the seasoned veteran Dems were pretending all along...

not to care about fraud? I'm not sure.

[Debbie13]

102. Who-hoo! Americans are going to fight for their democracy

[berniew1]

103. I suggest sending them this documentation; its solid; they will need such.

There was widespread and systematic voter suppression of minority voters, dirty tricks, vote machine fraud, and other vote manipulation in Ohio, New Mexico, and Florida- that was of magnitude enough to call in question who won those states.

http://www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html
http://www.flcv.com/EIRSFla.html
http://northnet.org/minstrel/alpage.htm
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19
http://www.helpamericarecount.org/NewMexicoData/NewMexicoGeneralElection.pdf
http://www.flcv.com/bernalil.html
etc.

and also similar patterns in other states where the suppression and fraud did not change the election results including vote machine fraud in Calif., Pennsylvania, Washington, Texas, etc.
http://www.flcv.com/orangets.html
http://www.flcv.com/snohomish.html
http://www.flcv.com/mercerco.html
etc.

(the voter suppression of minorities in Mercer County is the worst I've ever seen-followup needed)

The unethical and illegal actions were so systematic and widespread that this cannot be allowed to continue uninvestigated and unpunished. There was a huge amount of obvious malfeasance that should be investigated and dealt with.

[Citizen Kang]

106. Question....

Why are they rising in 2004 when the fraud was more obvious in 2000 and Gore actually won the popular vote?

And don't give me the "Gore asked them not to object" because it isn't true.

[njdemocrat106]

107. This is great!

Hopefully we'll all have a very happy 2005!

"All I need is a miracle..."

[Pooka Fey]

109. WoooooooooHooooooooooooooooo!!! n/t

[zann725]

112. A thread earlier today said that the possibility of Filibustering was

being considered. Though Keith does not specifically mention that, I assume that's what he means by the 'several day delay.'

That would really 'fume' the Repugs, wouldn't it? Not being able to precisely "control" the format.

[Truman01]

120. The format is immune to filibustering. Its a two hour debate. nt

[Doctor O]

129. A filibuster is not allowed on this. The rules are very strict and only

allow 5 minutes per speaker and 2 hours maximum,

[No Exit]

115. WOW!! How wonderful!!

And if this is accurate and they DO stand up, I hope it doesn't just end with Jan. 6! I hope it grows and hounds this evil adminstration to the point where even their own party members are urging them to resign, and they do resign!

[marcologico]

121. I think Kerry just found his cabinet!

They will be saints if they do it! Give 'em whatever posts they want! They are heroes!

[Califooyah Operative]

125. A Thank You Campaign is appropriate for those who do stand up....nt