***OFFICIAL SENATE DEBATE THREAD- PART 2****

[ncrainbowgrrl]

:hi:

[mikedaul]

1. harkin!

I'm enjoying his comments...

[Viva_La_Revolution]

2. He speaks of FRAUD!!!!!!! YES!! n/t

[emulatorloo]

8. Exposing Blackwell for what he is n/t

[CornField]

10. I need to send him a thank you note

I only wish he would vote not to certify... it wouldn't make a difference in the outcome, but it would get a buzz in the press. Still, he did well. I'm proud of at least one of my senators.

[dalloway]

11. making people wait 10 hours like throwing ACID on the face

of democracy

--Harkin

WONDERFUL!!

[alexisfree]

3. ok there you go...

I was looking for this thread!!!

[Karenca]

4. All they keep saying is they want to fix the system,

but not challenge the results..
sucks

[Viva_La_Revolution]

5. OBAMA!!!!!

[roenyc]

7. he is a story teller!

[Verve]

15. Where's WALT? Doesn't he owe us all something? OBAMA is with

us. Nanny nanny boo boo! :bounce:

[Stephanie]

26. Walt already conceded we are right and he was wrong

posted earlier - Obama convinced him.

[Greylyn58]

41. He speaks

in such an eloquent manor.

Well said Senator Obama.!!!

[alexisfree]

6. OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Karenca]

9. Obama's on now ...Please object!!! ...nt

[mikedaul]

16. obama is so engrossing!

The dude is just oozing with appeal.

I hope he says something ballsy...

[berner59]

17. it doesn't matter if they vote to challenge...

What they are all saying is what we've been saying... This is a wake-up call!!

[crispini]

Tom Harkin, D-Iowa

Standing in line 10 hours to vote in america is like throwing acid in the face of democracy! YAAAAY!

4.6 per voter in Bush precincts, 3.9 per voter in Kerry precincts in Ohio. People making this decisions should be bipartisan. SOS made concerted effort to minimize their effort to cast their vote. Voter registration ON WRONG WEIGHT OF paper! Absentee ballots, e-voting machines not working properly, etc. Software that is kept secret is allowed to be the norm. this is an inappropriate pratice. independent review of software, both sides should have access.

continuing problems with election process. we need to make changes in federal law.
Talking about constitutional amendment guaranteeing right to vote. wooo!

[Greybnk48]

12. They are one by one

covering every base!! Obama is awesome.

[alexisfree]

13. OHMG!!!

this kid has a future.....!!!!!!

[demo dutch]

14. I am afraid that the MSM will only pick up those fragments by

repugs claiming coup d'etat!

[tx_dem41]

27. You got it....its a great soundbite. n/t

[proud patriot]

18. Thanks ncrainbowgrrl

:loveya:

[Karenca]

19. obama...that was bad....so disappointed......nt

[Verve]

25. He believes Bush got more votes? Huh? Didn't he get the memo? n/t

[alexisfree]

20. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHAT DID HE JUST SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>???????????????????bush won this election??

[Redneck Socialist]

21. Damn, Obama's good. n/t

Well except for that comment...

[SharonRB]

22. Even Obama thinks * won!!!

[Freddie Stubbs]

24. Has any Senator said otherwise?

:shrug:

[Greybnk48]

30. Relax

Once we get an investigation underway we'll throw the fuckers out--in shame--throughout history.

[tx_dem41]

75. What investigation are you talking about....this is it! n/t

[euler]

138. Time travel. Wow.

[Stephanie]

23. What did Obama say?

pls

[Freddie Stubbs]

28. He said that Bush won

And he got more votes in OH.

[Redneck Socialist]

29. Bush won, bush got more votes, blah, blah, blah...

Too bad, he was doing do well up until that point.

[imenja]

91. the principal of voting rights is more important than John Kerry

The point that the voting system must be reformed to be made fair and legitimate is far more important than who won one presidential election. Our Democracy is at stake, not just the next four years.

[Karenca]

31. he said b*sh got more votes....damn.,,,nt

[Viva_La_Revolution]

wait for Crispini's post.... she'll sum up... n/t

[alexisfree]

32. blah...blah...blah.....

Osama were is the memo about election fraud??????????

[dooner]

33. Obama "wasn't expecting to speak today"

"absolutely convinced Bush won this election, and got more votes in Ohio. Not challenging outcome of election."

"Important to seperate process from result of election"

"strongly urge this chamber to take it upon itself to reform the system"

"we have an obligation to fix the problem. this is not a problem unique to this election, or to the democrats"

[Verve]

38. Then he shouldn't have spoken! Get your facts straight buddy!

Although I love his voice. Sounds very strong even if he is talking out of his ASS!

[crispini]

Obama!

Talking about an older woman, a consitutent, who grew up not voting. I am absolutely convinced that Shrub won this election (PEW!). This is not an issue in which we are challenging outcome of election. What I observed as a voter as a citizen of Illinois for years ago was troubling evidence that not every vote was counted. Troubling to see that people who believe they have the right to vote still continue to confront these problems. Would strongly urge that this chamber as well as the house take it upon itself to perform this assistance. We're trying to make certain we encourage democracy in the world, now we have legitimacy of our elections challenged. This is something that we can fix. Experts on both sides of the aisle know how to fix it, what we've lacked is the political will. Too many voters had long lines, difficulty registering, partisan political interest try to bar them, too many difficulties. Too many voters have to contend with state officials who put partisan and personal interest ahead of others. we have an obligation to fix the problem. not problem unique to this election.

[shiina]

34. OBAMA says...

Woman born in 1894, born in the shadow of slavery, when lynchings were commonplace...women couldn't vote... She worked hard to see her children or grandchildren would have a country that worked for them.
He rises on this occassion in memory of her.

Bush won...not challenging outcome. Please separate the issues.

4 years ago, saw concerns that votes were not counted. Why are we still having these problems?

Problems not just in Ohio, but all over the coutry.

At a time when we're promoting democracy all over the world...
We can fix it, we just haven't had the political will

Machines, registered voters no on rolls, barriers to voting...based on wealth or race.
People put partisanship ahead of election

Chicago...long record of "these kinds of things" (lol)

[alexisfree]

35. they cut him off...

[Karenca]

36. Dodd....please. talk about FRAUD

Someone, pls say the "F" word!

[shiina]

37. Have the Republicans finally shut up?

[Karenca]

40. yes.

only one spoke so far.

[roenyc]

39. think i need to listen to randi rhodes for an explantion of today

[alexisfree]

43. I know...

I need a traduction of jan 6

[alexisfree]

42. DODD

mmm....federal electoral system need to be improve...

[Verve]

44. praising Boxer for giving them an opportunity to talk about elections!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

45. I'm beginning to see what their intention is

Several speakers have complained about the proposal to ensure fair elections not being allowed out of committee.

This is a guerilla tactic for bringing the problems out into the open. They know it's hopeless to contest the election, and they don't want to be labeled "sore losers." (I wish they weren't shy about it, but that's what's happening.)

What they need to do now is go back to their home districts and say the same thing to their local media intensively and often.

[roenyc]

67. labled sore losers? you should turn over to the congress

the name calling is digusting! they are horrible in there. it depressing i had to leave. much like this guy.

[Verve]

76. Agree! Hopefully their tactic will work! n/t

[CornField]

46. Voinovich - I wasn't expecting that.

All the pugs should stand up and make fools of themselves.

[Karenca]

47. Republican Voinovich..............of course saying that B*sh

overwhelmingly won.

[kath]

52. Acck, I just can't listen to these Pugs. Screw you, Voinovich

[Lydia Leftcoast]

57. Voinovich saying he's "proud" of how the election went

The Dems should capture that bit of video and play it over and over in districts that had problems.

[SharonRB]

64. However, how can any Republican

stand up and disagree with what the Dems are saying? They're really not disputing the results, just talking about necessary reform. If a Repuke disagrees, they don't look very good. Maybe this was a good strategy after all. They knew we'd never overturn the election.

[SharonRB]

48. Is someone yelling in the background

as Voinovich says * won?

[Karenca]

54. yep ..... nt

[Karenca]

66. this voinovich thinks if he yells, he makes it right ...nt

[trudyco]

61. yeah,were they saying LIAR? LOL -nt

[alexisfree]

49. oh George go take a seat!!

[mcscajun]

50. Do we have some DUers in the Gallery?!?

I just heard the Repub from Ohio getting heckled.

:)

[Califooyah Operative]

60. hehe, :) nt

[Viva_La_Revolution]

51. OHHH! an Outburst!!

Repugs do that when they get scared!:scared: LOL

on edit: my bad. darn

[alexisfree]

53. WHO WAS THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????

WHAT DID SHE SAID???

[mikedaul]

62. i think the heckler yelled

"no he didn't" when the repub said shrubby won the election

[SharonRB]

68. She did.

[Pacifist Patriot]

92. Good for her!

[Citizen Jane]

65. I think she said "They did not"

At least twice said in response to Vampirovich stating that everyone in Ohio got to vote and there were no problems.

[Greylyn58]

55. WOW!!!

unseen people in the gallery are speaking out now.

Damn what guts!!!

Thank God for these people!!

on edit: What she said in response to Voinovich saying George Bush won Ohio...she yelled "NO HE DID NOT!"

[Califooyah Operative]

56. wow. voinavich or however you spell it is 'proud' of how things in ohio

turned out. Proud of voter suppression huh...

[Mist]

112. When he said he was "proud", I thought

"I'll bet you are!"

[dalloway]

58. when voinovich (R-Oh) said * won his state, someone in the

gallery shouted out "DID NOT" and had to be removed by the sargeant-at-arms

[DemGirl7]

59. this is so cool....

I love the excitment

[alexisfree]

63. oh shut the hell up!!! voinovich

[mcscajun]

69. Gahd....is his time UP yet?

How many papers is he gonna quote, anyway???

[alexisfree]

70. oh my gosh again...fucking consperacy shit!!!

[yojon]

71. Invitation to Voinovich

Come out here and kiss my ass.

[Zenlitened]

72. "Cleveland Plain Leader"????

He doesn't even know the name of his own "hometown" newspaper.

:dunce:

[derby378]

73. Go, Cynthia McKinney!!

Give 'em hell - the other Dems won't.

[crispini]

74. Voinovich.

We still have serious problems confronting our nation. On Nov 2 voters chose their government. Voters of Ohio chose Bush. (Heckler -- they did NOT!) Wow, he just had to call down the gallery! We count fairly. "Beating a dead horse." "Monday morning quarterback." I am proud of how the election went in Ohio. Jeez, Peeeeeeeeeeee-ew!!!!! Unfairly, unsubtantiated allegations. :puke: Publicly applauding good work of dedicated public officials. Recount effort is a circus that needs to pack up and leave town. He's quoting newspapers just like the other Rethuglican, WTF? Get over yourselves, your only response to FACTS is to quote NEWSPAPERS?

Talking about bi-partisan election boards, saying that JJ is slamming his own allies (Democrats) because he is questioning Ohio results. Stop wasting time, move on with serious issues.

[roenyc]

77. i really wish conyers or some one would shove the proof

in their faces.

[bones_7672]

78. You DO realize that the whole result of this challenge to Ohio's

electors is that Ken Blackwell's name is becoming so well known in Ohio that he may steamroll into the governor's office in '06.

[demo dutch]

86. Frankly I think he'll be too controversial, like Katherine Harris

running for Governor, he'll be really be able to energize the the dems to vote against him.

[katinmn]

103. They'll probably give him a cabinet post

they reward incompetence

[bones_7672]

106. But name ONE dem in Ohio that has a chance. Most are unknown

outside of their city/county.

[we can do it]

172. Possibly Don Pluquellic of Akron....n/t

[SharonRB]

79. Shut Lott up!

[Karenca]

80. they're going to vote now..i'm going to throw up ......nt

[roenyc]

85. Me too nt

[Karenca]

99. i can't tell if they're ayeing or naying........nt

[SharonRB]

95. Can anyone hear the votes?

[CornField]

81. Trent Lott thinks he's Lemony Snicket

And views this as an "Unfortunate Series of Events"

Poor baby

[SharonRB]

84. LOL!

[SharonRB]

88. Where's Byrd?

I'm surprised he didn't speak.

[formernaderite]

129. Both the house and the senate look empty today...

....sort of depressing that most don't feel it's a job requirement to attend.

[mcscajun]

87. He's got no patience for democracy...

...can't afford to give open debate a couple of hours without calling it "unfortunate".

What a bastard.

[alexisfree]

82. put down the lid on that freaking repuke!!!

[Pacifist Patriot]

83. Does the Senate have a quorum?

[roenyc]

96. how do we know how they are voting. its making me nuts! nt

[don954]

89. boxer gave a yea, cheers from the gallery

[mikedaul]

97. did clinton vote?

I didn't hear anything after her name was called...

[pgh_dem]

100. oh cool! i didn't hear that

stream quality not so good

[crispini]

90. Trent Lott from Miss.

Unfortunate procedure, inauspicious beginning. I hope this doesn't have a lasting negative impact. Boxer has made her case, think that we should vote.

And here's the vote!

DID BOXER JUST VOTE AYE?!!!!!!!

[Verve]

93. Lott! "I really hope this doesn't have negative impact in the near

future"

What? Is that a threat?

[pgh_dem]

94. can't hear responses to yea or no

Sounded like boxer said no...
bleh

[demo dutch]

101. She it was not about objecting! it was about reform!

[pgh_dem]

107. still ought to say yes to it, just to show you meant it

is all i'm saying
EDIT: She did vote affirmative...she gets the floaty hearts
:loveya:

[Karenca]

102. me either...........nt

[Verve]

104. Probably on purpose.They're all mumbling aye I bet!

[roenyc]

105. Dreier on congress

small flaws happen. no big deal. blah blah blah. system worked pretty well! from liberal ohio paper. aha.

[Webster Green]

109. Asshole is saying that dems are emboldening the terrorists

Ashamed to say he is from California

[SaveAmerica]

110. no, she was applauded, she did good!

[demo dutch]

98. Oh oh the voting!

[SharonRB]

111. I guess Boxer was the only one to vote "aye"

[roenyc]

113. did she just stop talking? nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

114. It sounds like a bunch of them abstained

:shrug:

[kath]

108. sure doesn't look like a quorum in the senate to me. Lots of 'em didn't

even bother to show up.

[kath]

118. So Boxer is the only one??

[euler]

123. They have TV's in their office and scattered...

... all over the place, even in the bathrooms. The vote last 15-20 minutes, so they start meandering over when the vote starts.

[Karenca]

115. damn,,,One vote for us.........nt

[demo dutch]

122. Not over yet

[crispini]

116. Yea, BOXER VOTED YES!

GO BOXER!
:loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya:

BOXER 2008!

[sarahlee]

117. Lots of LTE will be needed right away

We are going to have to follow this up with a LOT of letters to the editors to make sure the message that this is about voting integrity and democracy, not about being sore losers.

Bush – pres secty on MSNBC talking about “conspiracy theories” in discussing the debate.

[Redneck Socialist]

119. Well, that was a little disappointing.

Boxer is my new heroine though.

[Karenca]

121. more than a little

:cry:

[roenyc]

124. no one stood with her either so i guess it was to be expected

same will happen in congress. not good. they should have not certified that darn vote and let congress appoint the chimp. oh well - we will wait and have the last laugh at the impeachment. trust me its coming.

[tx_dem41]

125. What exactly did you expect? n/t

[Redneck Socialist]

141. Well actually I was pleasantly surprised that any senator

stood and contested, so based on my rather pessimistic expectations today went better than I hoped.

After I learned that Boxer was going to stand I began to hope that more Dems would cast a vote for the challenge. That is why I'm disappointed.

[euler]

127. It was predictable. In fact, if you read last night archives...

...what happenned here today was predicted by a few.

[crispini]

128. What, we got heard!

How so disappointing? It was GREAT! We got heard! We've got lotsa Senators that AGREE WITH US! Go Senators!

Think long term long term long term

[bones_7672]

120. I don't think the law covering the 2-hour debate depends on a quorom

being present.

[jswill]

126. Hate to point this out,

But that's not quite what Will Pitt led us to expect. I'm devastated.

[tx_dem41]

130. What did he lead us to expect? n/t

[mikedaul]

133. Levin votes aye?!?

Did I hear that correctly?

[roenyc]

142. i was devastated when no one stood with boxer.

i had some hope when i saw the senate hearings. i was totally divested i entered a post where i was almost crying.

but let me tell you right now rep john lewis is up in congress and i feel his pain and i am going to cry again. This country needs to look at itself today and hang its head in shame.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

131. Who just voted "aye"?

I couldn't hear the name.

[tx_dem41]

136. I thought it was Carl Levin of Mich...could be wrong though n/t

[Karenca]

132. BOXER..AYE, LEVIN...AYE...2 fucking votes...nt

[keepthemhonest]

139. I did not hear levin

good that makes two ,it's better than none.

[SharonRB]

134. Woo hoo, an aye from Levin!

I didn't even know if he was there, since he didn't speak. So Stabenow spoke and voted nay and he didn't and voted aye! Yay for my senators.

[crispini]

135. ANOTHER AYE!

who is Levin? did I hear that right?

[SharonRB]

137. Yes - senator from Michigan!

Proud to say he's mine!!!

[keepthemhonest]

140. you're proud moment n/t

[SharonRB]

150. Now I'm confused

It sounded like she just now said Levin, no. Well, which is it? Did he change his mind?

[Redneck Socialist]

143. Excellent! n/t

[kath]

144. Mikulski voted "no". sheesh.

so did Nelson of Fla.

Cowards.

[roenyc]

147. Well well welll, no no no, did they call hillary yet?

[roenyc]

148. No n/t

[yojon]

145. They weaseled

All this talk about 'its not about contesting the election but its about election reform' is crap.

Rush Holt tried to introduce election reform and they killed it. Doe these people really think they'll let a "Electoral Legitimacy Bill" out of committee now. Feh.

None the less, Barbara Boxer is my hero.

[yojon]

146. Biden voted no

Crap.

[roenyc]

152. everyone voted no. only the really brave voted yes

true believers in democracy and equal rights.

[mcscajun]

154. The math is simple, unfortunately...

...if they stood and said "Bush won" or "I'm not disputing the result" then they're voting "No."

In the end, there will be very few "Yes" votes, and maybe, maybe some abstentions.

It's still historic, and it still puts (IMO, anyway) the little Asterisk next to Bush's name yet again.

[crispini]

153. S T-J said over and over again,

if she had any other way to get heard, she wouldn't have done this. Were they EVER going to listen to us? No. At least we shut them up and got our say for awhile.

Especially in the Senate. I really like Harry Reid more than I ever did before. Go him.

[kath]

149. Obama and Kennedy vote No, so does Hillary. shit

They just said Levin voted no - WTF????

[roenyc]

155. You know they dont want to be toooo progressive and lefty N/t

[demo dutch]

156. It's important to keep on the those that raised questions so that

this is not just a BS debate but will spur real election reform

[SharonRB]

157. I heard it, too. Did he change his mind?

I was so happy he voted with Boxer, now I'm pissed.

[crispini]

159. He never said he was voting with Boxer,

just standing with her. n/t

[SharonRB]

160. But earlier they said he voted aye

[seeker4ever]

151. So.. do we want an aye or a nay...

I her all the Dems voting nay so...

[SharonRB]

158. Aye - Boxer is the only one.

Levin had voted aye and now they said he voted no, so I don't know how he voted.

[seeker4ever]

162. Oh goodie, goodie!

These fucking cunt Democrats are makin' me proud yet again!

Great, that's just great! I heard them blowing Gonzalez this morning and now this- wow we're in great shape. And I see Kerry made it a point to way in on this important issue... oh wait...

[roenyc]

161. Sheila jackson Brown just got yelled at

She went overtime. her last words were wait let me rewind they were good, "i came here a slave i now want the right to vote". as mr. speaker is saying you time is expired.

[kath]

163. Byrd votes "NO".

And I don't think he even spoke. Did he?

[roenyc]

164. Randi's on

she is playing clips.

[dooner]

165. Didn't see Byrd or hear him speak n/t

[kath]

166. So, what's the story with Levin????????

[Vadem]

167. Alrighty! We need to flood Sen. Boxer's office with flowers!....

No one else from the Senate gets flowers from me except Barbara....I'll also be sending some to Rep. Stephanie Tubbs.

[seeker4ever]

168. We really showed them!

[tx_dem41]

169. Lots of abstentions.... n/t

[kath]

170. Boxer is the ONLY one. 1 "aye", 74 "no"

[crispini]

171. I guess that Levin didn't vote Aye.

Well, dude, you lose all the floaty hearts I was gonna give you. :D

[crispini]

173. Are we done in the Senate? n/t

[crispini]

174. Yes, I guess so.

Back to the House!

[tk2kewl]

175. Some Democrat should Challenge a Republican to a duel!

Well not exactly, but...

A Dem should get up and say something like the following:

I offer to yield the balance of my time to any one of my Republican colleagues who believes that this debate is frivolous.
Come up here and tell the American people that you believe it is acceptable to force minority Americans to wait for ten hours while their white neighbors breeze through the polls!

Come on up and tell the American people that it was just a prank that Latinos were encourage to vote on November 3rd when the election was on the second!

Come up here and tell the American people that you don't care whether or not there is a verifiable record of the votes they cast!

Any and all comers... Bring it on!