Hilarious. So now DU will only be satisfied with an overturned election?

[jpgray]

No--wait, I know the next step. Now we have to vote out everyone but Boxer, Conyers and Tubbs Jones, right? They are the only "true" Democrats now, right? Everyone else is a filthy traitor for not walking right into the Republican PR maw? Do I get it?

We have no majorities--the only gain we can have from this debate is to get our message out about fixing voter fraud. We will NOT be able to overturn the election. It is an impossibility at this point. You don't give your enemy a stick to beat you silly with just because giving out the stick makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside. Results matter, and trying to overturn the election will yield zero results. Fighting the fraud WILL yield results.

[Califooyah Operative]

1. Not DU.

just some of the unrealistic folks here.

[Karmadillo]

2. I wouldn't use such a broad brush. There are plenty of people here

who appreciate what's happening today.

[genius]

3. Kerry won. Your kids could die in the next few years if they don't oppose

Bush.

[jpgray]

So your solution is to decapitate the opposition party

So you can feel good for two hours? Listen to yourself.

[katinmn]

27. they didn't show much opposition today. let's see what tmw brings.

[Freddie Stubbs]

7. Not one single Senator suggested that Kerry won

In fact, many made it very clear that they thorught that Bush won.

[KittyWampus]

13. Andn They Successfully Made Their Desire For Election Reform Known

if they'd done what YOU wanted.... they'd be DOA.

[mzmolly]

34. Ya just gotta wonder cryingshame?

I really wonder how many here either "get it" or are actually as they claim to be ... ?

[Generator]

4. We will only be satisfied when someday Bush is out of office and the lies

and crimes are brought to light.

This is day one.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[incapsulated]

6. It's an opportunity

To start some real voting reform, that's all.

Contact all those who stood with Tubbs and Boxer. Educate and encourge them.

It's not going to be easy given the repuke control of the hill.

[wildeyed]

8. Fight the fraud and win the battles that can be won.

The election will not be overturned. I don't like it either, but I am trying to live in reality.

[Pacifist Patriot]

9. What's with the generalization?

I'll be satisfied when we have transparent elections and know for sure who won. I'll be satisfied when the corporate media thinks coverage of an historic electoral challenge is more important than Andrea Yates.

[LoZoccolo]

10. I'm telling you man, they'll only be satisfied...

...if all our politicians start busting out like Zack de la Rocha and belt out Rage Against The Machine songs and there's a mosh pit set up on the floor of the senate.

[Stand and Fight]

11. Hmmm....

Here we go, jpgray, leading the pack in eating our own... :eyes:
And to think that we should be united today... Some people make me hurl! :puke:

[jpgray]

17. When someone is wrong, I feel free to tell them they are wrong

You obviously feel the same way. Interesting that it is only deplorable in my case rather than yours.

[Stand and Fight]

42. And thus...

You prove my point. The majority don't believe the election will be overturned -- myself included. We feel that it is time for some serious investigation of the voting process in this country. It is time for SWEEPING election reform in the United States in federal election. George W. Bush will be inaugurated on the 20th of this month, and I don't believe that many are debating that fact. However, I will stand against people like yourself who would make such strong and offensive generalizations against DU as a whole. The voting process in this country is broke and has been for some time -- it is about time our representatives begin the long arduous task of fixing our electoral system. Few actually believe this election would be overturned, and pissing on those who have HIGH HOPES for such is just what I said -- eating our own for no good reason.

:hi:

[robbedvoter]

12. Why? How much fraud is acceptable to you?

How do you even know who won? So far W doesn't have the votes...

[jpgray]

14. None. But trying to overturn the election in these two hours is idiocy

It would play directly into the Republicans' hands. We could all feel warm and fuzzy for two hours and accomplish nothing, maybe even lose ground, or we could play it smart and make progress. It boggles my mind that so many DUers see nothing beyond feeling gratified for two hours.

[Boswells_Johnson]

15. It hard when the only alternative given is to grab one's ankles

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

16. If we don't overturn the election there will be more Tsunamis

:scared:

[housewolf]

18. We remain idealistic, we can't help it...

It's not that we see a glass half-empty, it's that we see a glass with room for more. That leaves us satisfied and grateful for what we have received and still yearning for the ideal that exists as a possibility.

I'm happy today. Today I see brave democrats standing up for people, for democracy and for better elections. Just think - they did something that's only been done one time before in our history! I have renewed respect for (some of) them and feel hope that we can move forward and effect some good in our world.

My thanks to the senators, the representatives, Will, the other groups working on this and all of YOU guys - you're great!

[sd_UDO]

38. Great speeches! Now vote against the Ohio R electors!

http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/105/udo/

http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/105/udo/

We can have elections 6 times a year!

True!

[cali]

19. Your making way too much sense

for the slash and burn faction.

[Wind Dancer]

20. It would be nice to see our party united for a change.

I actually remember a time when we had real Dems, not spineless corporate owned DINOS.

[bunny planet]

21. I know that, but thank you so much for explaining it to us. I didn't

understand until you spelled it out for me.x(

[bobbieinok]

22. haven't been reading DU much lately, have you???? .....NOT overturn

this election....

BUT....

get an election process in which every eligible voter can register, can vote without having to wait in line hours, and can be assured of an accurate count that can be audited if questions arise....

as to complaints about dems in congress.....people here are angry.....many of us are absolutely dismayed that WE know more about what happened in the election process and that WE see the dangers to democracy more clearly than our elected representatives WHOSE JOB IT IS to protect and defend the constitution and fight for the people....

[jpgray]

26. I'm only disagreeing with those who advocate attempting the overturn

Within this two-hour debate. It simply isn't good strategy--moreover it is BAD strategy. We are not at a point where we can successfully overturn the election, and to do so in a format where we have no power or control would be the height of idiocy.

[sd_UDO]

35. Enfranchise yourselves! Self-enfranchisement is real!

Vote 6 times a year!

We can!

http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/105/udo/

http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/105/udo/

[WilliamPitt]

23. Ignore them

Dumb shit.

[Mistwell]

I was with you Will, right up until that post!

WTF? You're calling this person a dumb shit for expressing their immediate thoughts on the issue? Come on man, I expect WAY better from you, given the amount of slack we have cut you at times. Maybe it is the lack of sleep?

[WilliamPitt]

36. No

I am calling the people commiting vocal suicide on the board dumb shits.

I agree with the original poster.

[Stand and Fight]

44. What exactly...

What exactly do you consider vocal suicide?

I don't think even a majority here realistically believe that this election will or would be overturned. The people here who do believe such may be a bit overly optimistic, but they are not dumb asses as you so vainly assert!

[LoZoccolo]

33. Are you calling him a dumb shit? n/t

[WilliamPitt]

37. See post 36

[spooked911]

24. I suppose you're happy with every crumb the Dem party throws our way?

In any case, you are over-reacting to some people who are just excited by the good news of the day.

[jpgray]

32. No. I'm unhappy when people ask Democrats to commit suicide

This two hour hearing turned into a full-bore attempt at overturning the election would be a political gold mine for the GOP. We'd get zero out of it, the cause of fighting electoral fraud would be severely undermined, and some people on this message board would be momentarily satisfied. Their next meme in that case would no doubt be "the Democrats argued the case for overturning incompetently in order to sabotage the fight against voter fraud!" It wouldn't surprise me.

[Magrittes Pipe]

25. Isn't using logic in the "2004 Election Results and Discussion" forum...

...against DU rules? :shrug:

[Pirate Smile]

28. Who is DU? Make it a poll. I sure as hell don't think most people think

that.

[Stand and Fight]

43. Amen to that!

If anyone expects this election to be overturned, then they are unfortunately living in a dream world. However, I do not feel that the entirety of DU -- or even a majority as the OP asserts -- believe/d that this election would be overturned.

[yurbud]

29. NO learn from GOP

They stand up for their stupid ideas whether they think they will win or not.

We ought to stand up for the good ones.

[jpgray]

39. No they don't

GWB ran like a whipped little boy from endorsing the sunset of the AWB because he knew it was popular. He also caved mightily on Homeland Security, the 9/11 Commish, letting Condi testiy &c. Because it was strategically smart to do it. The PR on Bush and the Republicans is that they never cave on anything, but don't buy into it, please.

[JI7]

most of them don't even know the rules

look at how many thought the democrats were traitors or sell outs for their focus on voting fairness and accuracy. when that was always the purpose.

[mordarlar]

30. It could have been you. We were just too honorable to cheat.

[mzmolly]

31. I think if we overturned the election, they'd wan't Bush *popped*

anything less is "anti-democracy" damnit!

:nopity:

[Shalom]

40. We Already Have an Overturned Election! nt

[fooj]

41. Agreed!

One must admit, though, the Commander-in-Thief just lost his precious little mandate and political capital, didn't he? This is a truly important moment! Our message is out! The truth will be told! I am thrilled!

[jpgray]

45. It puts the problems in the public eye

And it gives the Dems some opportunity to not roll over and die after an election with many irregularities. Now we see where it goes from here.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

46. Good post! eom