Take a lesson from generations of black protesters -

[cyberpj]

Perhaps some of us here at DU are a little less than euphoric. Rally participation with uplifting speakers and cheers is always much more cheery and motivating than having to sit and watch politicians debate.

It was hard to sit here for hours and listen to people say there was absolutely positively no credible evidence of fraud after we've seen so very much of it here. That leads me to make my next task getting Conyers' 100+ page report out to anyone and everyone.

JUST GETTING THE CHALLENGE WAS A VICTORY!!! We need to celebrate that people!

Now we can work on changing some of Congresspeople we've seen AND getting the fraud proof out there.

One last point - we ALL need to take lessons from generations of black protesters and remember we need to be in it for THE LONG HAUL. Nothing about this is going to change overnight. No one knows better than every single person in the CBC how long the fight against big power takes. They're STILL fighting it and we've just joined in. Suck it up and keep working. Now's the time for letters to the editor, call-ins to talk radio, talking to friends and neighbors and people who had no idea there was so much trouble in Ohio, and most importantly - thank you letters, handwritten thank you letters, to the heroes who stood up today.

Ok. I'm climbing down from the soapbox now so I can start writing.

Peace.

PJ

[cyberpj]

1. kick

:kick:
Wow - the messages are posting hot and heavy!

[msgadget]

2. Yes!

The challenge was a victory - well said.

[imenja]

3. Right, and let's keep up the fight

Defeatism gets us nowhere. Let's plan future strategies. I have a number of ideas. We should set up a forum for sharing ideas and strategies.

[cyberpj]

7. For West Wing fans -- As Josiah Bartlet always says,

"What's next?"

[imenja]

8. don't watch the show, but that's my sentiment

We have to keep at it. Thanks to all those who worked so hard on this issue. You got Boxer!!!!!

[Window]

4. Absolutely!

Well said.

[recovering democrat]

5. You've got it right!

I have been watching CSpan with tears in my eyes, at the AWESOME idea that this challenge is actually resulting in an open debate in the US Congress on this subject! I am amazed with the AWESOME differences between the Democratic speakers and the Republican speakers and how much sense they make!

I especially liked the Republican congressmen whose remarks were filled with examples of how badly Republican voters were treated in other states where Kerry won versus the challenge to the Ohio electors. I realize how exciting it is going to be to throw their words at them when the debate about what to do about elections in the future actually begins in the Congress now. Do they really want to be on the side of NOT changing anything to benefit their own allegedly disinfrancised voters!

John Lewis spoke. He started out in a world where civil rights, and even voting, for his world was still an unrecognized dream. Yes, it is important not to be discouraged by the end of the day today, although we all are. It is an extraordinary VICTORY and we should be celebrating it.

[Darknyte7]

6. 'We shall overcome someday...

But today was really & truly a good day. We have something to build on here.

[Generator]

9. Exactly

Some have forgotten that fighting the righteous fight is the first step to winning. And doing the right thing just makes life liveable.

Reward those that challenged. Eventually more will fall in line if they figure out that's what we want! Fighters not roll-overs.

[McCamy Taylor]

10. I get the feeling some people arent watching the same CSPAN as me.

I feel euphoric. This is so incredibly wonderful. Does anyone realize the odds that were overcome to get this far?

Man, in the 60s we dreamed about mainstream political recognition like this. Back then , people had to die to get national press coverage.

[Catamount]

11. Yes indeed!!!

[eowyn_of_rohan]

12. Thanks for the encouragement.

This is a big disappointment alright, and it was agony to listen to the Republican borg insult and belittle the Dems, and say there was no fraud and that it was fantasy... made me want to commit murder.

I tend to put my soul and heart into things like this, which is just setting yourself up for a fall. But this is just a stumble and once it stops hurting, we'll move along. Onward and Upward!

[katinmn]

13. this is a milestone. Not the beginning and certainly not the end.

But a major milestone.

This day belonged to the people.
I'm so happy about that. We made it happen. We'll grow stronger from it.

[crispini]

14. Right on PJ! n/t

[nashville_brook]

15. keep your Eyes on the Prize! n/t

[NewYorkerfromMass]

16. The freedom march never ends

great post. I've nominated it!

[kitkat65]

17. I wonder how much it would cost to get thousands of copies of the

final judicial report to hand out door to door.

Another option: Hand out CDs with the pdf to the more affluent neighborhoods that most likely have computers.

[cyberpj]

20. Great minds think alike.....

I've already burned several copies and posted notes on my condo buildings bulletin boards offering them free to anyone who wants to see the evidence. An opportunity to share the info with 180 people.

How many more of these can we think up?

Also - now that it SHOULD get some press... it's time to bring out the bumper stickers. The most popular so far... ONE NATION UNDER FRAUD.

[kitkat65]

24. Are you in Ohio? If so, what city? n/t

[cyberpj]

25. Sorry, no... I live in Delaware with Joe Biden -

well... not WITH Joe Biden... But with Joe as my Senator.

(Bet THAT got some attention!) :wow:

[MelissaB]

18. Well done!

:kick:

[Jo March]

19. Awesome post!

The Civil Rights Movement did not happen over a period of months but rather a period of years.

We will have to fight on. Are we up to this? I think that we are!

Arnheim

[Pooka Fey]

21. Thanks for the heads up. n/t

[FreepFryer]

22. Right you are. The struggle goes on and on...

This is neither the first step, nor the last... forty years ago it was assault and murder, not just fraud.

"I am mindful that only yesterday in Birmingham, Alabama, our children, crying out for brotherhood, were answered with fire hoses, snarling dogs, and even death. I am mindful that only yesterday in Philadelphia, Mississippi, young people seeking to secure the right to vote were brutalized and murdered."

— Martin Luther King 1964, on receiving the Nobel Peace Prize

[NewYorkerfromMass]

23. this really needs to be nominated. eom

[The Backlash Cometh]

26. kick

[kk897]

27. I wish it had been a debate. (long--sorry--I got worked up).

I would honestly love some intelligent people to get together and actually debate the issues in front of the nation without resorting to name-calling. I would love for them to cite facts and not newspaper editorials. I would love for there to be one person speaking, then another responding to what the person actually said, and perhaps asking that person something to clarify. I would love it if people wouldn't just "stay on message."

Imagine if, say, Rep. Tubbs Jones had gotten up, made her case, then one of the Ohio Republicans had said, "there's not one shred of credible evidence" --that part actually happened, but here's where imagination comes into play:

Tubbs Jones: Has the gentleman from Ohio read the Conyers report?

Ohio guy: Yes.

Tubbs Jones: Which part, specifically, do you think is not credible?

Ohio guy: Well, the Triad official was simply resetting the battery, not tampering with votes.

Tubbs Jones: You don't think that he had the means, motive, and opportunity to tamper with the computer?

Ohio guy: Maybe so, but that does not prove that he did.

TJ: What about posting the numbers that the recounters were supposed to make sure they came up with in their tally?

OG: What? Oh, um, well...OK, maybe in Hocking County there were some irregularities.

TJ: What do you think caused those irregularities?

OG: Human frailty. But it wasn't enough to change the outcome of the election.

TJ: What would you say to a woman who survived being raped?

OG: I'm sorry?

TJ: What would you say to a woman who survived being raped?

OG: I fail to see how that would be relevant...

TJ: That she was lucky not to have been murdered?

OG: Again, I'm not catching your drift.

TJ: Just because the majority of Americans were not disenfranchised or failed to have their votes counted does not mean that a crime of major proportions did not take place on November 2. The sacred American right to vote has been abridged, whether through outright fraud or through accident. Do you believe that the right to vote should not be abridged under any circumstances?

OG: Of course!

TJ: Then how can you possibly say that there were irregularities and that some people may not have had their votes accurately counted, yet still persist in saying that it's not a crime with monumental repercussions? How can you stand there, assured of a Bush victory, when thousands of Americans could not vote at all? You're okay with thousands of people not voting, not because they didn't have the desire, but because they didn't have the means? You're okay with supporting an election that...

OG: (interrupts) There's not one single shred of credible evidence to support that! Why, look here, all these newspaper editorials from Ohio say that you're just a whiner, that you lost, that you should get over it!

Hmmm...I guess this is why you don't see these kinds of debates.

[cyberpj]

29. That's ok, I enjoyed the dialog and wished for it myself !

I've used a similar analogy before --- I said, what if I'd been stabbed several times? Would I not want to catch the guy just because he didn't kill me?

It's hard waiting to build the case and execute it well but I guess I'm choosing to believe they really are still building the case now. And I want to know what I can do to help with the next step.

[justiceischeap]

28. Right on!

Pretty much what I said in my thread (hadn't seen yours)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=256718&mesg_id=256718