So, can this forum be closed now? Can this be the last string?

[Jersey Devil]

It seems to me that the election is now officially "over" and maybe we should all start discussing what we probably should have been discussing since November 3 - why we lost again.

It seems many here think the answer is to stop voter suppression and get a paper trail and everything will come up roses. But there are a lot of things that could make us winners that have nothing to do with those issues.

Kerry ran a crappy campaign until mid-September when he finally started taking Bush to task regarding the war in Iraq. He didn't fight back against the Swifties until all the damage was done. Add your own list of deficiencies.

My vote for the first thing to be done is to banish Shrum to Siberia.

[Kota]

1. There are still investigations going on. Hopefully this is just

the beginning.

[Goldeneye]

2. This is definately not the end

I think it might still be the begining...back to work.

[Jersey Devil]

13. Good grief! Do you harbor some belief the election can still be overturned

So have an election reform forum but for Chrissakes, let's get rid of this one.

[Goldeneye]

39. No, I don't think this election will be overturned.

But it will continue to be investigated. I fail to see the need for a new forum... all the info we've collected is in this forum. I guess the name could be changed...but I don't see the point.

[SammyWinstonJack]

44. I never thought today would over turn the "election"

I was just hoping that our Leaders would spotlight the obvious ELECTION FRAUD that took place on Nov. 2nd, sadly I didn't hear much about that in the "debate" that took place. But being the "whining asshole" I am, what did I expect? I don't have a lot of hope for election reform given what I witnessed today, lip service is what we have had for the past four years and sadly I think it is all we can hope for in the future. But being the "whining asshole" I am, what do I know? Anyway, if the Dem Party Leaders don't give a rat's ass, why should we?

[sepia_steel]

3. The 2004 Election will be talked abotu for a long time coming.

I don't seee any reason to get rid of the forum, unless it's to RENAME it, "Election Reform".

[crispini]

4. No, we can't close this forum.

We need to start talking about meaningful election reform.

We also need a place to chat about Moss V. Bush and all the other lawsuits that are still floating around out there.....

[Jersey Devil]

16. Will the election be over by 2006?

I hope so.

[Darknyte7]

45. You know...

no one is stopping you from leaving. You can just leave all of us loons to our own devices.

:hi:

[Jersey Devil]

48. I would rather stay to turn your attention to something constructive

Sure we should discuss voting reform, but most here act as though it is the be all and end all of our problems as a party when in fact it is just a very small cog in a large, dilapidated wheel.

[sepia_steel]

59. If we don't look at election reform none of the standards we vote on in

the party will matter anyway. Seems logical to me that reform should be numero uno.

[Jo March]

76. How insulting. How utterly insulting

How about all of us just move to the back of the bus? Would that work for you?

You can not and will not "turn" my attention to something constructive. I AM doing something constructive.

If YOU don't like this forum, then don't post in it. Don't try to shut the rest of us down because we will not be stopped. We still have work to do.

[roenyc]

110. the 2000 election or 2004? nt lol

[HR_Pufnstuf]

25. good time to rename it "Election Reform"

or if u like puns, "Election Reforum"

[RaulVB]

5. The election is not over since THE REAL WORLD DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY

They guy you had in the White House for the last 4 YEARS HAS OCCUPIED THE OFFICE ILLEGALLY!!!

This regime must fall.

The USA HAS NOT HAD A LEGITIMATE ELECTION SINCE 1996...

Simple.

[Amaryllis]

7. right on!

[HeyManThatsCool]

12. If your saying that

the US hasnt had a real election since 1996.. are you saying that Bob Dole really won that year?

[RaulVB]

18. After the 1996 election WAS OVER...

That was the point.

I guess some need "clarification..."

[Jersey Devil]

26. I suppose we were cheated out of Congress too?

No Dem has lost since 1996. They were all crooked elections. Hell, go back to 94 when the Dems lost Congress.

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

6. NO.... still important.....

This day will be remembered as the day the sheeple found out. It will still be days before the turning tide is noticed....

[McCamy Taylor]

8. No, we still need the Inauguration Protest and the Special Prosecutor

And the Election Reform

Our work has only just begun.

[Jersey Devil]

17. You want an impeachment forum, not an election forum

I think it would be healthy to turn the page now before many are sucked into the quicksand.

[meganmonkey]

53. Sucked into the quicksand?

Sucked into what quicksand? If you don't like the topic of conversation, don't participate. Turn your own page. We're grown ups (for the most part, I think), we can make our own decisions about how to best fight for democracy.

It takes all kinds.

[Pacifist Patriot]

9. Not until we know what the real vote count was, not the official count.

[itzamirakul]

10. There is such a thing as "multi-tasking"

Some people can do more than one thing at a time. We have to get this voting fraud mess cleaned up for any coming elections.

The more this past election is scrutinized, the less credibility the Bush camp will have. They lost an enormous amount of credibility today and no amount of spin will ever change that.

[Jersey Devil]

21. You couldn't tell it from this forum

There hasn't been much "multi-tasking" at DU since the election, just an obsession with turning the election around. That's is now over, or at least it should be.

[sepia_steel]

62. That's an extremely condescending thing to say

So you really think you know what EVERYONE here has been doing to help their party? Come'on naw.

[Jersey Devil]

94. All the "action" at DU since the election has been in this forum

That's what I meant. And the folks in here talked of nothing else.

[bunny planet]

112. and you know this definitively...................how?

[Mr.Green93]

11. It's not over

till we say it's over!

[FreepFryer]

14. >guffaw

[bunny planet]

15. no

[mattclearing]

19. I've got another idea...how about make it a reform forum?

And I think most people are capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time.

We can figure out how to win next time and still fight for fair elections, right?

[Salomonity]

20. Washington

Washington state is still unresolved, and developments there are worrysome.

The GOP is claiming hundreds of invalid votes, and may have hard proof:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002142097_webrecount05.html

If hundreds of people voted illegally it's probably enough to give them a good shot in court.

[RaulVB]

22. "Hard Proof"?

You mean like in FUCKING OHIO???

[eridani]

111. That's funny--they didn't say anything about it 6 weeks ago--

Republican election observers in King County said they saw hundreds of provisional ballots go straight into the voting machines on Election Day without any checks — and since the provisional ballots look just like regular ballots, there's no way to tell how many were counted

That probably has happened. 2 of 12 of the precincts where I was a pollworker had a couple of extra ballots counted by the machine that weren't reflected in the sign-in sheets. The other 10 precincts checked out perfectly.

[AngryAmish]

23. We must continue to fight

[Jersey Devil]

24. Fight where? The fight is over

It's official - Bush won. Let's move on to discuss how to win next time.

Sure we should fight for voting reform, but hell, it seems the only thing anyone here wants to talk about.

You think we lost Congress because of voting problems?

[RaulVB]

28. Hey "dude", wake up!

The "rethugs" even control your opinions, now.

Be happy and wait until they give you a bone to lick...

[Jersey Devil]

32. Since you think in dog terms, stop howling at the moon

It isn't going to do anyone a bit of good to continue kidding yourself into thinking that we have been losing elections since 1994 all due to cheating.

[RaulVB]

37. Barf! (n/t)

[itzamirakul]

43. Jersey, it's simple really...

start a thread talking about voting reform and then don't join in these other discussions that upset you so much. A lot of us will post to your new thread if it has something valuable to discuss. But for those of us who want to chew about this past election some more...just leave us do it!

And YES, I DO think we lost Congress due to voting problems. Some of the same ones that were discussed today. Voting iregularities are not new, it's just that today made them more transparent to the entire world and there is no way to put THAT genie back into the bottle. Spin just won't do it this time and we are going to keep the pressure on.

I can't understand why some DUers want EVERYONE to move to whatever point THEY want to discuss. Just start the durned thread and move on. We'll catch up with you.

[AntiFascist]

46. That's not going to work...

because of the pesky problem of corrupt voting systems. We need to get to the very bottom of this administration. I don't care what the title of this forum is, but it should be left open!

[sepia_steel]

64. What is your deal?

If you hate this forum so much you don't have to post in it or read it.

[Sydnie]

27. ummm ... no

There is still much work to do. We will be discussing the election results for some time to come.

If this forum doesn't suit the purpose of your future needs, then request one that will from the admins.

[merh]

29. The election fraud is on going - you can stay out of it if you don't

like it!!!

The election reform has just begun. We have a lot of work to do!

[Jersey Devil]

103. I don't want em you can have em, he's too fat for me

Talk until your lips fall off about election reform if you want. But don't make it so that you ignore the other, real, substantial reasons why we lost: Shitty candidate selection procedure; shitty campaign (run by Shrum who never won anything anywhere); shitty candidate - Kerry who spoke like a mummy and looked like Lurch.

[grasswire]

30. Here's a thought for you...

...if you don't want to see the kinds of discussions going on here in this forum, don't come here.

But don't try to dictate to the rest of DU your own preferences.

[Terre]

31. Why? Is there a rush or something?

Is this forum taking up valuable server space that should be given to something else waiting? I'm sure each of us can make a choice as to stay here, visit ocassionally, or move on to another more appropriate forum.

If you think this forum is no longer applicable, then don't come to it?

[Jersey Devil]

38. It's been a giant waste of time and resources by those who were

deluding themselves into thinking that somehow the election would be overturned. Sure now everyone is toting the line that it is "about voting reform and not about the election" but that is just BS. Many here actually thought this would change the electoral vote and those who call themselves "leaders" here were happy to string them all along.

[zimba]

33. The election is over, but

the fight for the truth, the fight for an honest and transparent election process, the fight for wrestling control of the election process away from right wing corporations, these have just begun.

[Karenca]

34. no .............nt

[Snivi Yllom]

35. I second this motion, 2004 is over

[Jersey Devil]

40. I think a lot of these people are masochistic

I want to move on, to analyze what is wrong with our party and fix it. I am sick and tired of the "woe is me, the election was stolen again" mantra.

Christ, we have been losing election after election since 1994 and all they can talk about is voting reform as though that is the only reason.

[Snivi Yllom]

41. exactly

soooooooooooo missing the big picture

[Terre]

51. So move on then

Why did you feel the need to tell everyone here to do likewise?

Personally, while I know we're stuck with *, the issue of the 2004 Election results is NOT OVER!

[SmokingJacket]

60. No, you are masochistic for coming to a forum that causes you

such terrible pain.

There are many to choose from. Why waste your time?

[rockedthevoteinMA]

36. If you don't like the discussion, then don't come in here...

pretty simple, I think.

There is a lot still to be discussed, investigated, and protested.

The election may be over, the results may have been finalized, but there are many here who believe there was fraud. No need for you to try and tell us what we must believe... Isn't having differing opinions part of the progressive cause?

AND this wasn't about overturning the election... that has been covered multiple times - it was about having the irregularities investigated.

[AngryAmish]

42. It is over when

the investigation into vote fraud is over....then the impeachment begins.

[WilliamPitt]

47. You're free to leave this forum

There's the door.

Meanwhile, people who want to see election reform in this country will keep on keeping on.

Bye.

[Jersey Devil]

50. Walk west until your hat floats

Who died and made you God?

[WilliamPitt]

52. Nobody

But you appear to have nothing constructive to add. You appear, in fact, to be offended at the idea that this forum exists at all. If it were me, I'd leave the forum and never come back. Seems to be the sensible option.

But go ahead and stick around and be a pain in the ass if it floats your boat.

[Jersey Devil]

54. For months you've been leading the gullible by the noses

leading them to think the election could be overturned and it turned them away from the real issues facing our party. Kerry ran a shitty campaign and he lost and our congressional candidates ran a shitty campaign and they lost.

That's what we should be talking about.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jersey Devil]

66. Hey, that's not very nice of you

That's it? Am I supposed to go cower in a corner now?

[pacalo]

67. You already have. Into fetal position.

[WilliamPitt]

63. I will pay you $1,000

if you can find one thread - one - or one truthout article - one - that shows me representing the idea that this election could have been overturned.

Go. I'll wait.

[Snivi Yllom]

73. ok here, I'll take that in used $20s please

http://www.truthout.org/cblog.shtml

just a sample, but the entire page is an excercise in promoting the idea that the winner of the Ohio election was in question.

t r u t h o u t | Conyers Hearings on Ohio Vote Fraud Coverage
By William Rivers Pitt

Wednesday 08 December 2004
11:25AM

Almost all of these panelists are bringing lawsuits against the election in Ohio. I guess they are correct when they say this election is not over. I think maybe it has just begun.

[WilliamPitt]

75. Is this really the best you can do?

"The best precedent to set for the future is to not tolerate fraud now, is to not 'move on' until it is fixed."

No soup for you.

[Snivi Yllom]

78. ok another, but now I want my grand in pennies

Nope, no suggestion Kerry could win here... :eyes:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/122404Y.shtml

Previously, the Green Party and Libertarian Party have not fared well in their efforts to get emergency orders regarding this matter in Ohio. In order to pass muster with a judge, the individual or group requesting an emergency order for such a recount must show both irreperable harm as well as a substantial chance for success on the merits. While Green and Libertarian representatives could theoretically be able to show irreparable harm, they could not establish a substantial chance for success on the merits, because no recount would deliver Ohio to either party.

Kerry's entry into this recount effort changes the math on this matter dramatically. He can likewise show irreparable harm, and unlike the Green and Libertarian candidates, he can also prove a substantial chance for success on the merits because he lost the Ohio vote by a statistical whisker.

It should be noted that Kerry's filing of these requests does not indicate his complete entry into the recount process, but does clearly indicate that he is moving decisively in that direction. His previous stance on the matter was based simply on his desire to defend the right to have a recount in the first place. The evidence of election tampering in Ohio, specifically surrounding Triad, has motivated him to actively join the fight. The Democratic Party is also quietly putting financial resources into the Ohio recount effort.

Perhaps the most significant aspect of all this, from the activist point of view, has been the effectiveness of the telephone calls and letters to Kerry. The activist push to get him involved had a significant effect on his decision to enter this effort. Likewise, calls to other Senators in order to convince them to join House members in challenging the election have likewise had significant effect. If such an effort continues, the activists involved will very likely see the desired result unfold.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/122804V.shtml

The filing by the Kerry/Edwards campaign is significant. The Yost matter deals with a recount of the votes cast in Ohio during the election. In order for a judge to consider such a motion, the plaintiff must be able to prove irreparable harm in the matter at hand, and must also be able to prove a significant chance that the case will succeed on the merits. The stumbling point for the Green Party and Libertarian Party in this matter has been the ability to prove that potential for success, because no recount would deliver an Ohio victory to them. A recount could very well deliver Ohio to Kerry, thus fulfilling the success on the merits requirement.


just for fun lets see that again...

I will pay you $1,000


if you can find one thread - one - or one truthout article - one - that shows me representing the idea that this election could have been overturned.




A recount could very well deliver Ohio to Kerry, thus fulfilling the success on the merits requirement.

[Jersey Devil]

81. LOL, can we split the money? Nah, you did all the work, but will Will pay?

Is welching on a bbs bet a cardinal sin or a venal sin?

[Snivi Yllom]

84. I'll take it in good karma

and the satisfaction that I am right. That's worth way more than $1000.

And I'll split it with ya. ;)

[WilliamPitt]

82. Aaaaand that's about the filing being acceptable to the judge

The statement at the end, therefore, is accurate.

Still waiting for the judge, btw.

[Snivi Yllom]

86. welch

[Jersey Devil]

87. Danger! No Parsing Zone

Main Entry:welsh
Pronunciation:*welsh, *welch
Function:intransitive verb
Etymology:probably from Welsh, adjective
Date:1905

1 : to avoid payment used with on *welshed on his debts*
2 : to break one's word : RENEGE *welshed on their promises*
–welsher noun

[Snivi Yllom]

88. oh no you DINT!

:)

[Terre]

70. You know what?

I am NOT gullible, and I resent the fact that you made that implication. Who the heck do you think you ARE?

If you find the need to move on to OTHER issues, there are 24 other forums under "Politics & Issues". Sounds like you should be in Activism & Events or Campaign 2006 & 2008.

You have a good day too.

[Snivi Yllom]

71. WORD

Not shifting the blame. Rebuilding and not repeating the campaign mistakes of 2002 and 2004

[WilliamPitt]

72. Post 63 applies to you as well

[KoKo]

105. Forget it....No One could have run against Corrupt Voting Machines.....

Even Jesus Himself couldn't have won against a "stacked deck."

At least Jesus had a "message" that folks wanted to hear...unlike Kerry...but the POINT IS...KERRY WON!

GET OVER IT. It was a squeaker...but HE WON! I saw it...HE WON...even though he wasn't the best candidate...just remember BUSH IS AN IDIOT...YOU THINK that HE WON the FIRST TIME???

PULEEEEEZE!

[itzamirakul]

65. Jersey, I don't know why, but I have the feeling that you are just

totally pissed about the way today turned out. I mean, maybe you are angry because not enough Dems stood with Conyers or because it was not possible to overturn the election today...so I just have the feeling that you are taking your anger out on us.

We are on the same team, but even a baseball team has players in different positions in order to play the game to win. You can't just drop the outfielder in order to concentrate on the pitcher. Every position is important.

[Jersey Devil]

68. I am pissed, but not about today

I am annoyed that so much effort and time has been spent on a wild goose chase when it could have been directed to more productive efforts. I think it is a crying shame that people with so much to give have been misdirected instead into a snarf hunt.

[RaulVB]

69. So, "*" "won"? (n/t)

[itzamirakul]

77. I disagree that this was a "wild goose chase" or a

snarf hunt. I think that we all learned a LOT of things from these excercises on DU and even if we were not successful in turning the election around, every bit of our energy WAS productive, if only from the fact that so many of us learned far more about our politicians and how our government REALLY works.

There are far fewer gullible people in the world as a result of the hard work that was put into our efforts at uncovering voter irregularities. It may not seem valuable today, but it will be in the very near future. And what we have learned, we can teach others.

Like on Antiques Roadshow, sometimes things have to sit in the attic before their true value comes forth.

So, fellow Democrat, please start a thread with your ideas of what we should be doing for the coming elections in 2006 and 2008 because you may have some very valuable thoughts in YOUR mental attic that we need to begin to discuss - but we cannot do that as long as you stay in here and harangue us for being in THIS room.

[Jersey Devil]

79. I would like very much to do that

I did not start this thread with the intention of haranguing anyone. In fact, I did it half in jest to try to relieve tension. But some of the responses were so nasty that I just let loose a bit.

Your thoughts are upbeat and a good way to look at it. I guess mostly I am impatient and think that would be a better way of describing my feelings. I want to get to those other issues and the past 2 months talking about only one issue, voter fraud/suppression, have seemed like Ground Hog Day to me.

[itzamirakul]

109. PM me when you get the new thread started...

I'm over here in NYC-Hell's Kitchen looking across the Hudson River at ya, (if your screen name indicates anything). :)

And for the record...I'm totally pissed too!

[Misskittycat]

90. There can be no meaningful election reform until we fully investigate

both the 2000 election and the 2004 election. You have to identify the problems before you can begin to fix them.

For the sake of history, also, we need to expose what's been happening in our democracy, and all of the insidious details of the Bush coup(s).

Moreover, the stealing of the election is just part and parcel of the larger fascist Bush agenda; it needs to be analyzed fully as such.

Also, after I finished reading the House Judiciary Committee report, I was convinced that there are grounds for (a) impeachment or recall of Blackwell; (b) probably criminal prosecution of Blackwell and others under various state and federal statutes. Bear in mind that the threat of criminal prosecution may be leverage to convince wrongdoers who have information (e.g., election or party officials, Triad employees) to cooperate with the government in exchange for immunity. This might deliver a great deal of evidence for the historical record that might not otherwise be forthcoming.

There are also outstanding civil suits pending pertaining to the Ohio election. No, they won't change the outcome now that the electoral college vote has been certified by Congress, but they must be pursued as far as possible.

I haven't researched whether any of the election statutes mentioned in Conyer's Report give a private right of action; if any of them do, civil suits should be filed under these election statutes.

[marions ghost]

113. Exactly

as misskittycat said:

Moreover, the stealing of the election is just part and parcel of the larger fascist Bush agenda; it needs to be analyzed fully as such.

It's all connected.

[Blue Christmas]

49. are you kidding?

Today was just a beginning, not an end. You say above, "Let's move on to discuss how to win next time," but I feel like there's a greatly reduced chance of winning next time until we fully expose, investigate, and come to terms with the irregularities that have occurred in THIS election.

And then we use that knowledge to enact MEANINGFUL election reform.

and THEN we can close this forum.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

55. Why don't you rush jobs go to the 2006 and 2008 forum if that

is all you care about! I promise not to go over there and harass you!

[pbartch]

56. This forum be closed? WELL.....YOU CAN CERTAINLY LEAVE!

This has got to be the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. Dems don't quit.

[Alizaryn]

57. Huh? Why? Its serving many of us in constructive ways.

[pacalo]

61. I wouldn't be so presumptuous as to ask that a popular forum be closed

because it wasn't tailored to fit my opinions.

It's not over. Investigations.

[The Judged]

74. Who has denied you the opportunity to discuss what you want to discuss?

What is more important than every American having the right to vote, the right to be sure that their vote is counted correctly, and the right to verify the legitimacy of the election of any and all public officials and the legitimacy of all laws, policies, and procedures enacted by those officials?

It is from these rights that our government can make claims of its legitimacy.

It is without these rights that our government continues to make false claims of its legitimacy.

It WOULD BE from these rights that we WOULD have a true Democracy in this nation.

It is without these rights that we continue to falsely believe that we have a true Democracy in this nation.

[MarkusQ]

80. You lost because the vote was rigged. (n/t)

Come on, just the lines in Ohio (which were well documented and are uncontested) were enough to flip the results. Add to that the all the other nonsense and I have to say that anyone who thinks there is any hope of a free and fair election until we get this problem fixed is deluding themselves.

Nothing can "make you winners" if your oppenent is willing to cheat or (as I believe is the case) others are willing to cheat on his/her behalf.

--MarkusQ

[rockedthevoteinMA]

85. Thank you MarkusQ

I always enjoy reading your posts - full of reason. :hi:

[The Gigmeister]

83. We're not done! We haven't finished eating each other yet!!

Hell...If we're lucky, this will chew-up more time and bandwidth than the 9-11 conspiracy threads. We'll continue to eat each other and then 2006 will be apon us and we won't be ready again. Then by 2008, There'll be one big, fat DUer left to actually work towards victory.


/Rant

[ClarkUSA]

89. Jersey Devil and friends...

the pursuit of election reform is paramount to actually ever winning an election ever again. If we hadn't had this forum, I doubt today's historic challenge would have ever been contemplated, much less accomplished.

Strategize elsewhere about what a useless candidate Kerry and others were...I happen to agree with you, but I think that William Pitt and others here are focused on the right stuff. I for one do not think that Congressman Conyers or Jesse Jackson have wasted their time or anybody here who supported them through their efforts.

Stop pissing on everyone here for the monumental efforts made here on behalf of the election reform. It is not William Pitt's fault that the Supreme Court jesters in Ohio did everything they could to obstruct a fair recount. I suggest that you go to another forum and work on 2006 and 2008, as others at this forum do without demanding that everyone else "GET OVER IT." Besides, there will be investigations into the problems of 2004 that will be happening (see Conyers interview with William Pitt).
I see the forum changing names but the content and purpose of this forum have literally impacted national politics. Sorry if you don't see that.

We can discuss great candidate strategy all we want, but without election reform,
NO DEMOCRAT will ever win the White House again.

Election reform is a big part of what I am interested in -- 2006/2008 strategy is important, but today is not a time for that, IMO. And this is not the forum. I do not think our energy has been wasted at all. We are a BIG part of making the challenge
a reality.

PISSED-OFF, DETERMINED LIBERALS HELPED MAKE HISTORY!!

[Jersey Devil]

92. I never suggested we stop talking about election reform

What I did suggest is that we stop obsessing on it and also discuss other issues that we have largely ignored since the election.

As for the day being "historic", sure, in the sense that it hasn't been done for over 100 years. But what impact will it have other than as a footnote in a history book, if that much?

[ClarkUSA]

99. Election Reform Is What Matters To Many...

Perhaps it is YOU who is obsessing and pissing on the rest of us who are enjoying this historic day.

The impact is clear. NBC did an unspun report on it tonight. Millions watched. C-SPAN is watched by more millions. The international community is cheering us on. Election reform is on the front burner more than ever before, thanks to this.

You don't have a crystal ball, neither do I, but let's just say...what if this historic day had NOT happened?

Look, why don't you go to the 2006/2008 forum and many will join you there ON THEIR OWN SCHEDULE. Get off our backs.

Chill out. Let liberals enjoy their victory in forcing a public forum for election reform while you play DNC Chairman at 2006/2008 forum, okay?

[Jersey Devil]

91. Thank you for recognizing my point

Some will still be counting 2004 votes and posting elaborate graphs, flow charts and spreadshits positing that Kerry would have won if the votes were counted and blah, blah, blah, when the 2006 votes are being counted.

Then it will start all over again - we lost due to cheating, the election was stolen again, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Meanwhile, in the same states that are going heavy Repub for national offices local Dems are winning despite all the "cheating". Montana now has a Dem legislature yet Kerry got clobbered there. There are pure red states with Dem governers, etc.

We have to figure out why and stop wasting time.

[ClarkUSA]

93. Good points, wrong forum....let people decide for themselves.

You are not God, either. We get your point.

[Jersey Devil]

95. Not God, but I wield a mighty cheezy wheel

Heaven help those who force me to smite them by rolling it upon them.

[kitkat65]

96. Fuck that shit!

If I committed a crime, I go to jail.

If I do a poor job at work, I get fired.

These assholes think their positions have put them above the law and I want accountability, for cryin' out loud.

We let them get away with it once and look where it got us four years later. A war, a shitty economy, worse economy, criminally run elections.

BULLSHIT! ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT!

[Jersey Devil]

97. How do you REALLY feel?

Stop beating around the bush and please get to the point.

[kitkat65]

102. I've been beating around the BUSH for four years now

And the little weasel is still in office. Nyuk Nyuk

Buh-Bye

[mountainvue]

98. What's your hurry? n/t

[berniew1]

100. What Congres did didn't change anything. The fraud is still there to be d

dealt with. From here on more focus should be on documenting the fraud, seeing how extensive, documenting the official malfeasance for which a lot is documented in the EIRS huge log of EIRS incident reports at www.voteprotect.org and www.votersunite.com

This info needs to be compiled and acted on. That at least will get the attention of those in the system.

[many a good man]

101. Election may be over but the Irregularities have not been settled

Its not yet time to close up shop.

Let's see what we can dig up...

[femme.democratique]

104. Why don't we just change it to....

Election Fraud / Bush Impeachment thread?

[shiina]

106. NO way...there's still legistlation out, for one thing

[jayctravis]

108. Change it to "Election Process"