US Constitution doesn't contain a right for Americans to vote in elections

[The Judged]

Most Americans would be shocked, according to US Senator Tom Harkin's remarks to the Senate today during its deliberations of the Objection to the Electoral votes of Ohio.

Yet the MSM ignores this issue!

Public schools don't teach it, it isn't said often on the record in Congress, and the MSM has never reported it.

Yet it is the most important fact underlying todays events.

How are Americans to become aware of this if it isn't part of the public school curriculum, if the MSM won't report it, and if the Government rarely acknowledges it on the record and even more rarely acknowledges it before the public and on the record?

How can the FCC agree that the licenses it issues are being honored by the broadcast MSM, when those licensees ignore this fact?

Karl Marx
“If you can cut the people off from their history, then they can be easily persuaded.”

John Adams
“ Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people, who, have a right …and a desire to know.”

Aristotle
“The basis of a democratic state is liberty.”

Also, as far as the legitimacy of the Objection:

Edmund Burke
“Nobody makes a greater mistake than he who does nothing because he could do only a little.”

Abraham Lincoln
“Ballots are the rightful, and peaceful, successors of bullets, and that when ballots have fairly, and constitutionally, decided, there can be successful appeal, back to bullets; that there can be no successful appeal except to ballots themselves, at succeeding elections.”

Thomas Paine
“…the individuals themselves, each in his own personal and sovereign right, entered into a compact with each other to produce a government: and this is the only mode in which governments have a right to arise, and the only principle on which they have a right to exist.”

[ISUGRADIA]

1. For president...there's a Constituional right to vote for the US

House and US Senate (after 1913). For president, it is true. A state legislature could abolish a popular vote if they decided and pick electors themselves.

[The Judged]

2. Please post a link to any US Constitutional rights for Americans to vote!

Please do not post any links to rights against certain types of discrimination in being denied a right to vote.

Only post links to explicit US Constitution statements of rights for Americans to vote.

[Truman01]

8. These two amendments appear to give the people the right to vote.

What is the argument against them?

Amendment 17. Election of senators.

The senate of the United States shall be composed of two senators
from each state, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each senator shall have one vote. The electors in each state shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the state legislatures.

When vacancies happen in the representation of any state in the
senate, the executive authority of such state shall issue writs of
election to fill such vacancies: Provided, that the legislature of any state may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.

This amendment shall not be so construed as to affect the election
or term of any senator chosen before it becomes valid as part of the
constitution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

US CONSTITUTION:
Article 2. House of Representatives

<1.> The house of representatives shall be composed of members
chosen every second year by the people of the several states, and
the electors in each state shall have the qualifications requisite for
electors of the most numerous branch of the state legislature.

[FreepFryer]

9. How? I don't see your argument.

[Truman01]

16. See post 15

[The Judged]

10. Which people does it provide may vote? It doesn't! Notice that!

Amendment 17. Election of senators.

"... the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct."

Where is the Constitutional right for Americans who reside in any state to vote?

It isn't there!

There it affords the state legislature the right to determine who may vote, subject to the Constitutional Amendments on discrimination.

It is unclear, to me, that equal rights under the federal law, equal access to government under the federal law, or due process under the federal law can be defended with such complete authority in a state's legislature, except for a few specific types of discrimination as provided for by Constitutional Amendments.

[Truman01]

15. Are you not reading what I posted???

The senate of the United States shall be composed of two senators
from each state, elected by the people thereof, for six years;

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The house of representatives shall be composed of members
chosen every second year by the people of the several states,


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Am I missing something? The 17th amendment was passed to make Senator's election a "popular" vote instead of an appointment from the legislatures.

The "People's House" has always been elected, "by the PEOPLE of the several states."

So why do they not have the "right" to vote?

The Presidency is not popularly elected, nor do the electors have to be chosen by the popular vote inside each state. We have laws in each state that places the burden of chosing the electors for the President on the "people."

This is in black and white. I don't get your point.

TC

[bemis12]

17. You've got it right

An election by the people is guaranteed in the Constitution (for Seanators and Representatives).

I believe he's saying it doesn't say "which people" have the right to vote. For that you have to go to the 26th amendment, where his answer is. "All citizens over 18 years of age".

[Truman01]

18. I have no idea what his point is....

I think he is trying to make a point that there is no right for the people to vote and that simply isn't right.

TC

[KittyWampus]

20. They Haven't Explicitly A Right To Vote For President

[bemis12]

21. No kidding

Nobody is saying they do.

[Truman01]

24. The people have no right to vote for President.....

Except that they State laws give them that right and the 14th amendment would protect the even application of that law.

TC

[Bill Bored]

19. The Judged, from the 17th Amendment:

"The senate of the United States shall be composed of two senators
from each state, elected by the people thereof."

Sure the states can say felons can't vote, but personally, I don't think this is as much of a problem as some of the other stuff that goes on in violation of state laws. Yes, it's good that the constitution prevents other forms of discrimination. But let's say you want to amend it to make all the states the same. So do you allow felons to vote in all states or not? This alone could tie up the amendment for years.

The issue is that states that don't allow felons to vote should make damn sure the people who they say are felons, are actually felons!

As far as the stuff in Ohio, why isn't the unequal distribution of voting machines an equal protection violation, if not a violation of Ohio law?

One more thing, it's really Democrats that are being targeted, not just African Americans. It's a form of racial profiling to deny African Americans the vote by assuming they are mostly Democrats. But while there is a Constitutional protection against discrimination by race, is there one that applies to political parties? In other words, what gives Democrats the right to vote, other than the fact that "the people" have that right?

An interesting experiment would be for all African Americans to register as Republicans and see how easy it is for them to vote. Or for that matter 75% of all Democrats, allowing the remaining 25% to represent us in the primaries.

[The Judged]

25. Constitution obviously affords the states discretion to decide who votes!

While the 17th Amendment provides "the people" with a role to vote for their Senators and Representatives, it does not specify **which** people in a state may vote.

Please.

It has become obvious in the past 225 years that the states have decided who can vote and why.

That is why over those 225 years numerous Amendments to the Constitution have been enacted in order to attempt to clarify this murky issue.

While they have been forced to become mindful of the 14th, 15th, 19th, and 26th Amendments to the US Constitution and have had to become cautious to appear to comply with these Amendments by utilizing crafty criteria when denying voters a right to vote, the states continue to exercise franchise over their voters and votes, and the complete process of elections conducted within their states.

The states, barring any Constitutional Amendment that allows the federal government to specify federal standards on national, state and local voting rights, election procedures, and election tabulation methods will continue to exercise franchise over their voters and elections and interpret the Constitution as affording them the right to do so.

Once again, show me where in the US Constitution that Americans are afforded the right to vote, whether for a president, a vice president, a senator, a representative to Congress, or a state official.

Try to show me without forgetting the Constitutional restriction that provides that state legislators and therefore state laws, policies, procedures and state officials shall decide the matter.

[The Judged]

3. Anyone care to prove Senator Tom Harkin wrong? To act on this?

[FreepFryer]

4. There is no right to vote that transcends the states' own laws.

As Jesse Jackson, Jr. observed. And that lack of Federal protection of the method of the vote is what has been so ruthlessly exploited by the GOP.

Support Election Protection!

Election Protection NOW!

[The Judged]

5. Correct, we have a winner! Any interested folks? This issue is huge!

Any willing to post links to federal laws that require any or all of the 50 US states to contain a right for Americans to vote in elections in their constitutions?

[The Judged]

6. Referendum proposing right for all citizens over 18 years of age to vote?

Without ignoring the reality that Re-uglicans in Congress, the Executive Branch, and in the Judiciary are not in favor of amending the US Constitution to provide that all Americans of voting age shall be allowed to vote in federal elections, can we get started on a real plan for change to this serious problem?

What action can we take to start addressing this problem with our Democracy?

[FreepFryer]

7. I would write Rep. Jackson a letter asking how we can help.

Meanwhile, draft your ideal battle plan, then draft your ideal counter... then again, and again and again.

[darkworkz]

12. Some people like their States rights.

And have no intention of letting ANYONE for ANY REASON step on them. This is the electoral college system, and after decades of hearing individuals and groups declare that it's an out dated system that serves no purpose, it is the very tool that hit * in a way we've never seen before.

I'm not a Dean person but I read on DU today his suggestion that we start looking at local and state wide positions to run for. This way the GOP begins loosing its hold on our power and the public begins to regain what it lost over 4 decades ago.

[FreepFryer]

13. The idea of a Federal right to a gun, but not a vote, is criminal.

And I agree. We need to refresh our actions on a local level. I recommend Boards of Education.

[Bill Bored]

22. Right

There aren't 5,000 states, there are only 50 + DC. This is manageable, but there should be some grassroots national coordination of the effort.

[The Judged]

23. I'm certain that MORE people prefer their Constitutional rights!

The states MUST act in accordance with the US Constitution, but the Constitution has been in crisis in recent elections, because the federal government is not prepared to respond to legitimate problems and legal challenges to a states failure to adhere to the Constitution* when an election takes place.

*On issues of equal access under the law and due process.

The federal government has a built in flaw in the Constitution, and the lawmakers are following the law, while ignoring the deficiency in the Constitutional to redress a states failure to follow the US Constitution.

Until this deficiency is redressed by the federal government we as Americans can only claim a Democracy-like form of government.

[Bill Bored]

11. I agree with Truman and Jesse Jackson!

It is the methodology by which we vote and the enforcement of state laws that are failing us. The states cannot prove that the vote is being counted as cast because of their flawed methodologies (black boxes, lax security, unknown source code, etc.).

At the same time, Blackwell seems to have violated the laws of Ohio, at least during the recount process, by not picking the precincts at random and not doing the full hand count when the non-random 3% samples didn't add up. It only takes about 5 votes per precinct to swing Ohio from Kerry to Bush, and there is (on edit, NO proof) that this didn't happen. (There are probably some other violations but I'm not an expert on this. I do know what the recount laws say and the word "random" should not be open to Blackwell's interpretation.)

The problem with all this is the timeframes with which the electors have to be certified, and so on. Unless the vote is verifiable at the time of the election or shortly thereafter, it's useless. Contests, discovery, etc. are too late to be of any use, and to overturn elections, you have to be prove that the outcome would change. Can't do that if you're not counting the votes as cast in the first place because you don't know if an election is ever close enough to be overturned or not. Were it not for the law in Ohio which says that anyone on the ballot can demand a recount, the recount, such as it was, would never have happened with Bush's initial margin. Yet there is no proof that the votes were ever counted as cast to begin with. (And please don't tell me the "proof" is that Blackwell, or any other election offifical(s), said it was!)

[JunkYardDogg]

14. Right to Vote vs. Banning Gay Marriage

We just don't have the proper values
Why be bothered with such a trivial matter like a Federally mandated
Right for ALL American Citizens to vote in a Federal Election for
the President of the United States of America when we should be obsessed with a much more important matter like a constitutional
amendment to ban Gay marriage.
What kind of Godless Immoral values are you espousing here?
Since there is no Federal , Constitutional mandated right to vote, than I guess that we should all be Eternally Thankful for the rare priviledge of being able to participate in a rigged Election, and it is bad manners to complain. Hell, a rigged election is better than
no election at all. Especially for the Borg.