HONESTLY, by your Nov 3rd standards, are you happy with the results?

[joeunderdog]

Were you planning on 9 weeks of MSM blackout?
Did you think that 2% of the Senators stepping up would make you happy?
Did you fantasize that the Dems would do the right thing and raise their collective voices at Blackwellian illegalities?
Are you glad Al Franken and so many leading Dems don't even acknowledge the issue, much less educate the public about fixing the problem?
Did you think there might be some chance of stopping the RW from stacking SCOTUS, the FCC and FEC for 4 more years?
Were you hoping John Kerry would "play it safe" and wait til 2008? (or maybe you thought he was gathering evidence and waiting to pounce?)

or

Did you somehow think that we could expose this thing for what it is and put Kerry into the office he won?

Honestly. November 3rd. What did you want to happen?

[brindis_desala]

1. I'm fighting to get the ballot box back. Period.

[troubleinwinter]

7. I hafta say that I want more than just the ballot box.

I want Blackwell indicted, to SHOW these fuckers that they cannot get away with crimes against the people.

[Oversea Visitor]

2. But you guys did win

It world news haha. And no never expect Kerry to just win like this.
Lots of hard work still needed. Balls is in republician court now.
They have to investigate and push voter reform.

[Eloriel]

12. They don't have to do anything

IOW, the ball really ISN'T in their court. All they have to do is whatever the hell they feel like doing and voting reform won't be part of it. They're the majority and in Congress, they play by the Golden Rule: them's that's got the gold makes the rules. The Repugs have the gold, in spades.

Glad you're with us. A belated welcome to DU! I love seeing people from around the world here.

[ShinerTX]

3. I wanted Kerry in the White House

So I'm not happy at all. I'm terribly disappointed that Kerry cut and run from this fight. Can you imagine how different today would have been if Kerry had been leading the charge?

As far as I'm concerned, he's a coward.

[Amaryllis]

9. See Arnebeck Jan.6 letter to congress RE Kerry

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss//duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=247010&mesg_id=247010

[zann725]

15. I'm very disappointed too. I had such faith in him.

And by Nov. 3 standards, how do I feel? It's time to start packing.
I sense a real immovable force, and don't feel like impaling myself on it. Thank you very much.

And if Kerry couldn't stand up to them, no one could. By saying I won't vote again means nothing to the politicians, since they know our votes don't count anymore. No matter how much 'reform' is "gestured," this is as good as it's going to get...more or less.

I remember where I was the day that (both) Kennedy's died, and I'll remember where I was the day Democracy died.

Sorry, don't mean to bring people down. I've been extremely optimistic thus far. But enough is enough.

[LittleClarkie]

25. He will not have cut and run if election reform still happens

He was active enough behind the scenes (in fact, isn't the lawsuit still active even as we speak?)

He was good enough to let us know where he stood yesterday, while still also letting us know that he realizes there is a big problem and that he's going to work to fix it.

I don't see a "cut and run." I don't see a coward. That's someething he could never, ever be in my eyes.

I wasn't looking for a public exhibition. And none of this has ended with todays proceedings. I want to see how the rest of the year plays out. I still expect things to be done. I'm in it for the long haul.

But then, I may be biased. He'd have to grill puppies on a hybatchi for a joint meeting of S and B and the DLC for me not to support him.

[SuperSteve]

4. I just dont see it

lord knows I didnt vote for the man, but Bush won it fair and square. He won it by 4 million votes and became the first president since 1934 to carry the house and senate with him. There weren't any irregularities out of the usual typical election problems which have always existed. If we dont get our heads around the simple fact that we lost, I fear another loss in 08. Everytime the opposition party wins from now on the loser had to have cheated? Come on, we're better than this...we're democrats.

[joeunderdog]

6. You don't sound like you're from around here. n/t

[Acryliccalico]

37. SuperSteve does not sound like he is from around here!!!!

[IndyOp]

8. We are Democrats - unfortunately most Democrats, like most

Republicans don't understand computer information security issues and how a handful of people here and a handful there could steal at least 3 million votes from John Kerry and give them to *. Kerry won.

Everytime the opposition party wins from now on the loser had to have cheated.
No, everytime someone cheats, they cheated, and should be challenged, investigated, and people convicted as necessary.

Being a team player, being well-behaved appropriate is not always the moral choice. Remember "When the laws are unjust, the only place for a moral man is to be in jail" -- same thing holds true when laws are unjustly applied.

We're better than shirking our principles in order to look like good sports -- we're Democrats.

:kick:

[SuperSteve]

11. you are pulling this stuff from thin air

"Republicans don't understand computer information security issues and how a handful of people here and a handful there could steal at least 3 million votes from John Kerry and give them to *. Kerry won."

screw the way republicans think, ive been a democrat my whole life, i'm intelligent enough to know when we lost an election. a handful here and there could steal at least 3 million votes from Kerry and give them to Bush, but you have no facts or proof behind it, its just what you think. Cmon guys, lets beat them where its easy, the issues! Its all about the damned issues!

[EFerrari]

17. Not true. We have tape, sworn affidavits, public testimony.

People who say "no proof" usually haven't done their homework or don't want to.

[Acryliccalico]

38. Start doing some research bud!

[mycatforpresident]

21. AMEN...and actually,

I'm quite sure that honest people are more plentiful in prison than in the WH, at this point.

And, why is it more honorable to just let the bad guy win, these days? What ever happened to the muckraking mentality we used to have? When we were like this...:grr:

[EFerrari]

16. I think you might want to review the evidence before making up

your mind on something that is so important?

[bushcrab]

19. Pull your Head out of Your A

ss, stand up straight, wipe off your face, and WAKE THE EFF UP! I hope you're a freeper...

[meganmonkey]

20. Maybe you'll feel better if you look at it this way

According to the dictionary, a mandate is “a command or an authorization given by the political electorate to its representatives.” Unfortunately, the dictionary doesn’t specify whether a mandate begins at 20%, 10%, or 3%.

In the popular vote, Bush has a margin of 3 percent. This is lower than the margin held by any president since 1916, with the exceptions of Kennedy in 1960, Nixon in 1968, and of course, W himself's negative margin in 2000 (remember, he lost the popular vote that time). Bush also has the smallest Electoral College margin, 6%, of any president since 1916, with the exception of his own 1% margin in 2000.

A mandate is a rare event, a signal of overwhelming political support. Reagan had a mandate in 1984, with an 18% popular margin and a 95% electoral margin. Two decades earlier, Johnson had a mandate with a 23% popular margin and an 81% electoral margin. These presidents had the “will of the people at their back.”

However, it's clear that the people in this election were split. Bush has a margin of 3% in the popular vote -- 51%. That is not a mandate, it's a margin of error.
http://www.notamandate.org/mandate.html

[meganmonkey]

22. And check this out:

If you want to know the background evidence for today's events check out this website- at the bottom there is a link to download the entire 101 page report outlining the irregularities in Ohio, and why this needs to be investigated. After you read the WHOLE THING, come back and tell me why you disagree that the right to vote is important.

http://yubanet.com/artman/publish/article_16832.shtml

[Eloriel]

27. Steve, you've got a LOT of lost time to make up for

and you'd better get busy, fast.

For anyone to come in here and claim, and with a straight face no less:

There weren't any irregularities out of the usual typical election problems which have always existed.

is pretty fucking unbelievable. In fact, just THINKING about it pisses me off. Who the hell are you to imagine that you know what you're talking about? If you're not doing hours of mostly NON-MSM news daily, you don't know shit. And you obviously don't know shit about this election.

I challenge you to do this: Go back to the earliest pages in this forum and start reading. And THEN come back and tell us that there weren't any unusual "irregularities." Aaaarrgh! :grr:

[Ifonly]

35. How do you know that Steve is wrong?

Have you studied every previous election the way the latest election has been studied to be able to say that these same things have not been happening for decades? Please read Votescam: The Stealing of America (http://www.votescam.com). How do you know every democratic candidate that has been elected since the end of WWII hasn't been the result of vote fraud? You don't, and it amazes me that people here seem to think that what is going on is somehow new, though I'm sure there are new techniques being perfected/used all the time. If Kerry had won, all the DUers would have accepted the election as fine and dandy, I bet. And this isn't to minimize the crap that goes on and is part of the fiasco known as our 'elections'. Its certainly about time that people started to look at elections in a more critical way.

[Acryliccalico]

39. We know Kerry won! All we want is for the election process

that has been in place , in this country, to come into the 21st century. We have the ability to do that now. It doesn't matter what past elections were fair or not. Those are history now. We want our votes to count so that we can have an election OF, BY and FOR the people of this country. Maybe something that we have never had before. A FAIR ELECTION.

[k8conant]

5. I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more...

I will never say that Bush won. To me, this was indeed about overturning the faked election results. Why in the world should we let someone steal one election let alone two? And let the group that did it keep their B & C fools in office, in power? I will not back down, I will not be quiet, I will maybe calm down once in a while (at least to sleep). This is an outrage.

On the other hand......there is no other hand.

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[genieroze]

10. I knew * was going to steal this from the get go. I was hoping I was wrong

and I wasn't and that stinks.

[wiggs]

13. Hell no. nt

[RaulVB]

14. Hell no. I can't! *n/t)

[EFerrari]

18. On Nov 3, I already knew they stole it. We're about where I

thought we would be, maybe even a little ahead. Am I satisfied with the pace? No. Does that matter in the larger scheme? No.

We just keep at it.

[catgirl]

23. I knew as soon as the Florida results came up

the election was stolen. It will go down in history as stolen.

yes, I am disappointment with the end result here (although I'm glad
some dems stood up today). The repugs have no idea how
they've stirred the wrath of the true and honest americans. There's
no turning back and they will face the music.

[EFerrari]

24. I think you're right. The Repugnicans nor the Dems really know

how much we know nor how bent we are on making this right.

Oh dear, they're in for a surprise.

lol

[LittleClarkie]

26. Long haul

Better than 2000 at least. Eyes are more open now, I think.

[seito]

28. Nov 3rd I thought we WERE DOOOOOOMED

Now I have hope. We made history today. I have said from the start that I am in for the long hard fight. We were victorious today. The Democrats have framed this issue beautifully. TODAY WAS A VERY GOOD DAY.

[Acryliccalico]

29. All you said , those are the things I wanted

Realistically I did not expect all of that but at least 1/2 of that not just a whimper.:hurts: I know I should be glad that we had a Senator but I just can't. I do appreciate her though and will send her my thanks. I still don't feel that I got anything back for what I have donated, and marched for, and used so much of my time on.

[Pooka Fey]

30. I wanted Kerry in the White House. eom

[rumpel]

31. Considering the 25 years of Rethugs planning and executing their plan

of taking over media, districts, corporations, and considering the tremendous skill of exploiting any and all opportunites for their propaganda, tweaking events to their advantage (9/11 hurricanes & tsunami) I hope it is a good start...

at least this is what I learned in the past 60 days from our discussions and research from all of us

[joeunderdog]

34. Did you read "Blinded by the Right"? Horrifying.

You'll know that none of this was by accident.

[Dave Reynolds]

32. What did I want?

I wanted something like we saw in Ukraine.

I still do.

[Withywindle]

33. I didn't have standards on Nov. 3

I was just a crying, puking wreck.


The more I thought about it the more I realized what a slow-going, painful, gritty, constant battle this was going to be.

So by my, say, November 5 or 6 standards, I'm just relieved that the issue hasn't been dropped completely and on to the next painful lubeless reaming like I thought it might be. I'm relieved we didn't repeat the shame of that awful day in 2001. I want to kiss Boxer and Tubbs-Jones and Conyers and everyone who actually stood up and put in a good word; the debate at least was forced on the floor, and that's a hell of a lot more than the Repubs wanted us to have. I also don't think it stops here, not even close.

My dreams and my expectations are not the same. It fell far short of my dreams, but it exceeded my expectations.

[Lil]

36. No! n/t

[FreepFryer]

40. Won't be happy till their crimes end in conviction and Dems are in office

But it was well-executed by the Democrats and advanced a number of crucial fronts, with absolute minimum damage.

<typo: added exp.>