Conyers: "But I hasten to add that until we complete our investigation, ..

[understandinglife]

....I don't know if it will change the result or if it won't change the result."

per interview with Will Pitt, today -- link:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/010705W.shtml

Why are so many at DU so unwilling to read what the Congressman has to say?

Why have so few recognized that the title of the report yesterday contained the word "STATUS" not "FINAL"?

Have each of you read the 102 pages of "Preserving Democracy:
What Went Wrong in Ohio: Status Report of the House Judiciary Committee Democratic Staff?

http://www.pdamerica.org/field/final%20status%20report.pdf

Well, guess what, as you read it also realize that it is only going to get worse for those who perpetrated systematic disenfranchisement (in all its forms) against each of us because the report only documents incidents in Ohio, along with the fact that it is only a "STATUS REPORT."

In two months, a bunch of fiercely dedicated citizens forced an historical event in a Joint Session of Congress; delivered massive amounts of data, analysis, support (emails, faxes, phone calls) to Congressman Conyers and others, wrote brilliant and insightful studies, crafted and filed numerous legal briefs, ....... .

All in 2 months; all extensively coordinated through the net; all achieved by people who, mostly, have never even met.

How can such an extraordinary confluence of actions and commitment be viewed in anything but an inspirational and motivational manner?

Just imagine what we can do in the next two months to support Congressman Conyers ONGOING INVESTIGATION; to support Arnebeck and Bonifaz; to begin assembling teams of experts to testify against any form of 'black box', unaccountable ballot format.

Two months ago no one in the Senate or HR would have ever expected they would be forced by "We The People...." to face what they all had to face today.

They are all ON RECORD.

Many of them are going to regret for the remainder of their life what they said and what they did and the fact that it is all on film (being replicated countless times already).

Count on it because we are going to hold them accountable, 24/7.

That's what democracy is all about -- in your face participation; not observation, or worse, 'silence.'

Thus, I fully support "me b zola" and the recommendation that this forum be renamed "Election Fraud Investigation & Reform" or a specific forum be created at DU with that title so that those of us committed to an unrelenting pursuit of these issues have a place to congregate, analyze data, coordinate actions and make events like today's happen repeatedly.

And, I specifically recommend that it persist:

1. until 'We The People....' are convinced that every eligible citizen can vote in an equivalent manner and know, with certainty, that their vote was counted precisely as they intended.

2. And, until every potential crime committed against our fellow citizens in the 2004 national election is investigated, and when found to be real, prosecuted -- NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TAKES.

Onward.

We will in_DEED prevail.

[Gloria]

1. Meanwhile, stonewalling Bill Richardson isn't helping any by

not allowing a recount here in NM. We know there are BIG problems here..but out Sec. of State insists that way more people came out to vote for county commissioner but weren't interested in voting for President.

Richardson is in DC hobnobbing with McCauliffe. Watch this SOB like a hawk....

[understandinglife]

6. We will make him regret it; count on it. (n/t)

[ClassWarrior]

38. I'd rather count on making BUSH** regret it.

Sound good? Don't forget who's the enemy.

NGU.

[In Truth We Trust]

56. good point but may i caution you to not forget that if you are not

a part of the solution then you are a part of the problem. I say we run progressives everywhere we have dlc type republican lite's running loose as a matter of principle.

[progressiveandproud]

58. Yep...

I also keep entertaining thoughts of challenging DLC-Dems with progressive Dems in the primaries. That would be one way to hold the more corporatist Dems' feet to the fire.

[ClassWarrior]

70. That's a sound tactic - but it's not for public consumption.

Reagan said, "Thou shall not speak ill of another Republican." He didn't say, "Fuck John McCain, throw the prick overboard." The Radical RW took care of Cartoon McCain and those of his ilk quietly. A lesson WE need to learn.

NGU.

[me b zola]

80. Although I agree with you in theory

I would point out that that tactic was successful because they had leadership who towed the line. With us, it the grassroots who are towing the line and begging our 'leadership' to get on board.

Look, I'm with you. I just want us to see all of the dimensions that we are dealing with.

[Joe Chi Minh]

121. Funny thing is

they actually incentivise us, and don't realise it! Seeing them write "we" is enough to raise my hackles. If they didn't post here, the threads and the general mood of the board and DUers generally would become a little more impassive.

[Wilms]

43. But I'm wondering if...

keeping NM on a slow boil is what's up. Like..."only in Ohio" and "status.

Everything in it's time, perhaps.

[understandinglife]

51. I think we've got an 'very large stove' with many burners and various...

....pots and pans at different temperature settings!! :evilgrin:

Quite a feast for those who prevail!!

Onward.

[progressiveandproud]

59. I love your posts...

...understandinglife. And the imagery is really cool! I'm licking my chops. :)

[Steve2525]

65. What's Richardson hiding?

a Veep run with Hillary plan?

[KerryReallyWon]

72. I heard Richardson had "women" problems in DC and could not run with Kerry

I wanted him, I new he would carry at least his own state. And, of course we would have had probably 30% more of the hispanic vote, everywhere!! It would have been easy, but I heard he could not, and his finishing his term were just words. Time will tell!

[corbett]

75. Traitor!

What's his problem!?! He did a good job as chair of the convention!

[Amigust]

112. He can follow a script. Move over Arnie.

[ClarkUSA]

85. Good to know, Gloria...who needs Ken Blackwell, eh?

[Mister Ed]

2. Onward.

Geez, people! This is only one day in the war. And it has been a very good day for our side.

[Patsy Stone]

5. No, don't you see?

We're all Doooooooomed! Doooooomed! :)
We rock and don't let anyone tell you different, you hear?

:yourock:

[understandinglife]

10. You are fantastic!!!! LOL!!! Never fear; I have no "stop button" ....

...on my motor." ;-)

:toast:

[RevCheesehead]

52. No, I think we are...

Doooooooooooooooomed!

[understandinglife]

57. Munch, Munch, Munch, ......that's me chewing on a fraudster morsel ;-)

Not doooooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeddddddddd;

Just hungry.

Care for a bite? :evilgrin:

Peace.

[pacalo]

29. Assume fetal position!

Heck, maybe a new discussion room should be created...



...so that we could avoid hearing the whining.

[understandinglife]

31. LOL;LOL;LOL;LOL.......that's just toooooooooofunnnnny!! Thanks. (nt)

[Beth in VT]

3. You go, understandinglife, I am here for the duration!

[AirAmFan]

4. Sounds like a plan: a new issues forum for 'Electoral reform and fraud investi-

gations", to be initiated by renaming this forum on election results.

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. I am all for that!

----------------------------------------------------------------
Election reform can help save this country!
Same day primaries with ranked voting ballots for the Dems, and
THESE reforms for your town, county, and state.
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm

[DoYouEverWonder]

62. Can someone explain to me, how is election reform

going to happen now that we have a Repug controlled Congress, a Repug controlled WH and a Repug controlled judiciary?

We had 4 years since the 2000 election fiasco to make election reform a reality and we blew it. Instead we ended up with a 2004 election that was so rigged it makes 2000 look fair and free.

I hate to burst peoples bubble but get real. The Repugs control everything and Bush is going to do whatever he pleases. You are delusional if you think Bush will ever get or sign real election reform legislation. We are doing to have to find some other ways to try to change this country other than the Democratic Party and election reform.

[GreenPartyVoter]

67. Read the link. Grassroot reform. Just get your own town, county, and/or

state sorted out. If you have a decent system in place, you can elect decent officials, who can make decent policy, oh say like more election reform at higher levels of government.

This sort of trickle up process won't happen over night, but it is worth pursuing. We have voluntary clean (publicly funded) elections here in Maine. I will let you know if we get ranked voting passed this time.

http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm

[Amigust]

113. Calm clarity in the flowing stream. n/t

[Patsy Stone]

7. Reporting for Duty! I'm down to my fighting weight, too. Let's Go! n/t

[FreepFryer]

8. I admire your passion and dedication. And whatever action we all continue,

It is people with passion and conviction like you that make dreams reality.

[seabeyond]

11. and that was thru three holidays,

grinnin..........to keep the momentum and still make the thanksgving diner, deliver santa claus and cheer in the new years. well by then i was so tired, just raised a fresca to the new years

[dzika]

12. Good point.

There are, in fact, many accounts of evidence in Ohio that have been documented by the media that were not mentioned in Conyers' report.

There is a pattern of what is *not* in the report. And there is a good reason.

[buzzard]

17. What is not in it, I have read most of it. n/t

[LeahD]

13. I AM inspired and motivated.

And, there is so much more work to do.

[SnoopDog]

14. Excellent post... This is our country everybody....

These SOBs are looting our treasury.
They are killing innocent people in other countries.
They are killing our armed forces.
They are taking education away from our children.
They are polluting not only our USA but also our earth.
They are making us hated in the world.
They want to kill all our civil liberties.
They don't want us to have health care.
Actually they don't care if we die.

This is it everybody - the start of a rebellion.

(Ok, what the hell is this guy saying... Well, picture this. If we 'stole' the election, we would immediately provide health care to our citizens, provide better education, clean up our water, air, food, implement clean solar/wind/geothermal energy, rail transport, jeez - you know, things that makes sense.)

[seito]

15. Thank You

Finally, a voice of sanity around here.

We are going to continue to fight until we prevail. The opposition may think they are strong, but we are many, and we ultimately control everything. We are watching and we are not going anywhere.

The silent revolution has begun.

[NJCher]

16. outstanding paragraph

In two months, a bunch of fiercely dedicated citizens forced an historical event in a Joint Session of Congress; delivered massive amounts of data, analysis, support (emails, faxes, phone calls) to Congressman Conyers and others, wrote brilliant and insightful studies, crafted and filed numerous legal briefs, ....... .

You are some kinda' writer! What an upper!


Cher

[IndyOp]

18. Thanks LIFE...

And I vote for "Election Fraud Investigation & Reform" --

How can I be sure my vote will be counted? Can we mail out paper ballots with felt-tip markers to all DU'ers?

:bounce:

[jbnow]

19. I did read this

and have saved the report.

What I wondered regarding the congress people who mocked these procedings as a waste of time and so much worse...did any of them look at it? Was it offered ahead of time to all members or just some Dems?

I hope those who talked it down so badly or praised the Ohio process have the excuse of not having had access to the report that should have upset every single one of them...or at least been enough to make them fake caring about it as they spoke on record.

[stillcool]

20. Thank You...

for a great read. Funny I just deleted my copy of Conyers report in my state of despair. Guess I better go download it again!

[Verve]

21. This is almost better than standing up! Go Conyers!! n/t

[KatieB]

22. You got my vote.

[WebeBlue]

23. Good job, lifted my spirits, gave it a nomination too, need some

inspiration around here..okay I'll pick my chin up off the floor now and put it in perspective.

[KaryninMiami]

24. Thank you. A Well needed reality check.

What we should never forget, is how many of us there are and how many different groups there are of people who feel just as we do and people who know, just as we know, that this issue is too important be swept under the rug or dismissed for another four years. Because of We The People will see to it that truth will prevail and the world will soon learn what we know to be true.

[hinachan]

25. NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TAKES?

Some of us aren't going to survive that long.

And I think the most important thing everyone on this thread (so far) is ignoring, is that only one thing matters: results.

We didn't get them.

Our Senators ignored us (except Boxer, bless her). Not because we were willing sheeple; we bombarded them with protests, which fell on completely deaf ears.

These Senators made a bold statement today, and that statement was, "Fuck you."

We'll get the same "fuck you" any time we ask them to stand up to what Bush is doing to America.

If you're too stupid to figure that out, folks, then you might as well register as Republicans and vote for Jeb Bush in '08.

I, for one, am giving a great big "fuck you" back to the Democrats; I'm changing my Party affiliation to Independent, and taking down my pro-Dem web site. I refuse to support a Party that doesn't support me. Maybe if I join the armed forces, go to Iraq and torture some women and children, John Kerry will shed some tears for me.

[understandinglife]

34. Yes. No matter how long it takes. And, the tent is large and admission...

...is not a function of 'party' but entirely a function of each citizen's commitment to our Constitution and each other.

As a bit of historical perspective:

It may be 'one party rule' in DC (as it very much felt to me when I arrived in DC in 1971); but its 'We The People...' everywhere else in our America.

Based on what I experienced back then, I'd suggest a bunch of folk 'inside the beltway' not sign four year leases. They are acting very much like so many of Nixon's pukes whom I met in 1971, 1972 and who were partyhardy in Jan 1973.

As OUR efforts with Congressman Conyers and others continue, the bushco dudes are gonna start feeling like their nixonian brethren did in the hot and humid 'summer of 73'(i remember it like it was yesterday)

And for all those lamenting the MSM lack of coverage during the past two months, let me close with this little quote:

"...on the night of 17 June 1972, five burglars were arrested in the Democratic National Committee offices. Newspaper reports from that point began revealing bits and pieces of details that linked the Watergate burglars with President Richard Nixon's 1972 reelection campaign. The president and his chief assistants denied involvement,...."

Conyers "status report" already contains more that a few 'bits and pieces' and he's got all of us on his side, as well.

We are going to kick butt, everyone. Senator Boxer, Congressman Conyers, Congresswoman Tubbs-Jones and others definitely kicked butt today.

Onward.

[shance]

26. Rockin Post UL****

That's a nice jolt of perspective.

Thanks.

[KaryninMiami]

27. kick

[mountainvue]

28. I heard him. n/t

[pacalo]

30. I totally agree!

I was in shock for two months after the election, now I'm angry & determined.

[Verve]

32. I second that motion! Or more like I 32nd your motion!

However, I won't 69th your motion so don't even ask!

[understandinglife]

46. Promise not to, for sure ;-))) Thanks (nt)

[Alizaryn]

33. Well said!

[Eye_on_prize]

35. yes, yes. This was a very good day on balance. It was gratifying to watch

...the Dems show they can indeed stand up straight and speak truth to power, when called upon to do so by 'We the peeps'.

..the aghast and pissy Rethugs get all defensive and hostile about a few Dems merely asking honest questions and talking seriously about the sorry state of our democracy, forcing it out of the shadows onto the table for full opening salvo of discussion and debate.

The Republicans had absolutely nothing constructive to say, they knew it, were caught off balance and looked like the gaggle angry fascist fools they are...for the whole freakin world to see.

Also loved it when -- after repeated disparaging remarks by R's about Michael Moore and left wing Dems as conspiracy nuts -- to have Conyers say unapologetically during the brief BCC press conference afterward how grateful he is to MM and his work to bring public awareness to Congress's responsibilities under the constitution to uphold democratic institutions.

Yes, we still have an dangerous criminal in the WH, but now many more people have been shaken out of their denial about that sad and scary fact. Sobering in a way too, but a hopeful sign that Dems are going to stick together and fight this where they can, and maintain their dignity and sense of self-respect as a party.

[snot]

36. I agree--and vote for forum name, "Election Investigation and Reform"

[art3]

37. Must happen

this must be persued. if anything, the crooks go to jail. the movement must shift to this
art

[Amaryllis]

39. This is one inspiring post. Thanks for helping me get my perspective back!

[wiggs]

40. I like the forum title and I like the determination in your post

I like the determination evident in your post and I share it. I'm ready to rumble.

I also share your enthusiasm for the role of activists like those at DU to spread info, ask questions, and get things done. This will be important, because....

(do not read the next part if you wish to avoid negative comment)

...Conyer's investigation, as indicated in his own report, has been and will be limited by the fact that it is only the dems on the committee who are involved. In order to have a real investigation with subpoena powers and the ability to suggest law enforcement action, the full judiciary committee would have to be handling the investigation. Unless a deal was cut today, this won't likely happen. While Conyers can do lots now in terms of election reform activism, investigation of Ohio election irregularities may be close to ending.

....The GAO investigation, as indicated in Conyers' report, is limited and will not likely be able to get to the bottom of Ohio irregularities.

So what investigation will there be, really?

I hope, as you do, that someday will we know what happened in Ohio and that someone will go to jail. But I don't think we will be investigating our way into that scenario. Congress, the media, the FBI, or at least the full judiciary committee has to be interested in pursuing the issue for that to happen. But maybe a whistleblower will step forward in one state or another. Maybe someone will come forward with ungaggable, credible proof of foul play, unearthed by internet activism. I hope so.

I'm ready to move on to the 'Investigation and Reform' forum with open eyes.

[Dancing_Dave]

41. Right on!

:yourock:

[Straight Shooter]

42. I concur with changing the name to Election Fraud Investigation & Reform

Let the whole damn world know exactly where the facts are, right here on DU, right in the EFIR forum.

:thumbsup:

[txindy]

50. Now that's a great point

I never thought about how it would look to anyone outside of DU. Thanks! You're right, they need to know and they need to clearly understand what we're investigating. That name should do it!

[understandinglife]

53. Yes, indeed. This is ongoing, in depth and here's where the action is!!

[candice]

44. If Blackwell is found guilty, he belongs in jail

...there is also the legacy of Glenda Hood in Florida. Is this being swept under the rug. She and Blackwell were working according to the same Rovian handbook to suppress votes. What ever happened to those 58,000 absentee ballots that got "mislaid" in the mail in Broward County?

[hootinholler]

45. Great post!

May I suggest ThirtyTwo as the new forum name?

Simply to commemorate those that stood with a vote.

-Hoot

[understandinglife]

47. That's really cool, Hoot!! "32" or "The 32" ... let's let our fellow ...

...citizens respond. In any event, we've lanuched a movement that no one will stop and one that will need to be sustained and nutured, constantly.

Peace.

[hootinholler]

48. It's also a 'magic' number in computing.

Although PCs are finally going to 64 bit words. Showing a little geek I guess.

On Edit: It performs as a link better visually when spelled out, that's why I Studly-Caped it.

-Hoot

[txindy]

49. I'm with you. There's no doubt that we will prevail.

Never give up. Never. :toast:

Edited to add: Nominated the powerful message in this thread.

[Old Mouse]

54. Spread it around

Here is the mail I'm sending out to people I know:

Today Democratic members of the House and California Senator Barbara Boxer officially challenged the certification of the 2004 Presidential election. They knew their challenge would not hold. They knew challenging the certification held the possibility of political retribution, and damage to career and reputation.

Why did they do it? To get you, the American public, to read this:

Preserving Democracy: What Went Wrong in Ohio
Status Report of the House Judiciary Committee Democratic Staff
http://www.pdamerica.org/field/final%20status%20report.pdf

This report is the record of the only government investigation into organized voter suppression in Ohio, despite numerous citizen complaints to election officials and local and federal law enforcement agencies. The report is backed by the results of hearings on location, expert testimony, and sworn affidavits of election volunteers and disenfranchised voters. Despite what some congressmen claimed today, testimony is evidence.

"With regards to our factual finding, in brief, we find that there were massive and
unprecedented voter irregularities and anomalies in Ohio. In many cases these irregularities
were caused by intentional misconduct and illegal behavior, much of it involving Secretary of
State J. Kenneth Blackwell, the co-chair of the Bush-Cheney campaign in Ohio."

Regardless of your political affiliation, it is important that you, as an American, read this document. I urge you to take this seriously, and to forward the link to anyone you know that has an interest in preserving our democracy.

Thank you for your patience and time,

[understandinglife]

55. This is an excellent message. I've been forwarding the status report...

...to every person I know. For many of them, I have no idea if they have a 'party affiliation' or not.

And, another quote from Will Pitt's interview with Congressman Conyers that I find a really helpful preface to my message to others is:

"What I'm (i.e., Conyers) after is understanding what things were not done properly, what things were done fraudulently, what things were done unintentionally, so that we can correct it."

He is so 'on message.' This is about equal participation in the franchise and anything that disrupts that participation must be identified and eradicated.

Peace.

[Im with Rosey]

63. About that quote...

I absolutely believe this quote should be the cornerstone of the fight, by including the possibility of just sheer mistakes, we take it to several levels of complicity while not just screaming "they're guilty". This attitude will get us much more support from reasonable people while all the while we are collecting evidence to nail some butts to the wall. Maybe it should be a bumber sticker!

[understandinglife]

66. I agree with how important it is that Congressman Conyers has...

...approached the issue, from the beginning, with diligence. He is seeking the truth; we need to continue doing all we can -- from advocacy to analysis to education to persistent vigilance that no election will leave either the voter or the candidate at question as to the legitimacy of the outcome.

I might detest Bush; but if I knew beyond a reasonable doubt that each of my fellow Americans had EQUIVALENT ACCESS to 'the ballot' and that their ballot was COUNTED AS THEY INTENDED and that all records of each election are archived and available for scrutiny, then the outcome is what it is. And, indeed, one would move on to find a better candidate; build a better platform, next time.

Unfortunately, as almost everyone here realizes, we have no clue what happened to 30 % of the votes because they were cast in vapor; and we have, already, an abundance of documentation of numerous mechanisms used to disrupt and prevent, in a targeted manner, many of our fellow citizens from voting. Thus, We Have No Election.

Time to make changes; time also to focus on what we need to do to prevent '2 Nov 2004' from ever happening again in America.

Peace.

[LeahD]

61. Great letter!

I like the tone, and it's clear and concise. Grand idea.

[understandinglife]

60. Votersunite: Mythbreakers...check it out!

http://www.votersunite.org/takeaction/distribute-mythbreakers.asp

Peace.

[Time for change]

64. Thank you for the inspiring message

In these days that seem so dark to so many of us, it's great that we have someone who can see and articulate the bright side like you can.
I'm with you on this.

[IndyOp]

68. Kick, kickety, kick, kick! (n/t)

[Viva_La_Revolution]

69. What has been accomplished in so little time.....

"Two months ago no one in the Senate or HR would have ever expected they would be forced by "We The People...." to face what they all had to face today.

They are all ON RECORD."



Shoot, yesterday morning they STILL didn't believe we would do it.... that's why their replies were so lame... we have to be on alert now, they have had time to make up their talking point lists and distribute them to the Bushbots for constant repetition until the sheeple start spouting it all as truth too.... we're just beginning...
keep at them until chimp's head explodes..

[understandinglife]

78. It seems some of our fellow citizens are planning a "VelvetRevolution"...

....check this message I just received:

"In the next few days, a new organization will launch called www.VelvetRevolution.us that will not be afraid to lead and act for our beloved democracy. This org has the support of all those who stood up in Congress this week and deserves all the support we can give. This will be our citizens movement, and we, The New American Patriots, will be the ground soldiers in America's Velvet Revolution."

I've been informed that they intend more than a teaser to appear at the URL, above, by Monday, 10 Jan 2005 -- we shall see.

"When Did Bush Know?"

[Viva_La_Revolution]

94. May I Kiss you for that link??!!

Thanks!

Yep, Revolution.

[understandinglife]

119. It's active....go for it!!

http://www.velvetrevolution.us/index.php?Main=ELECTION2004

And share with all you know who care and are ready to rock.

Peace.

"Its About Bush!"

[rdmccur]

95. Bookmarked!

[understandinglife]

120. Check it out!!

http://www.velvetrevolution.us/index.php?Main=ELECTION2004

Peace.

"Its About Bush!"

[bunny planet]

71. Amen Understandinglife, great post.

We fight on. Yesterday was a great achievement. I am so proud to have been a part of bringing it about.

[Catamount]

73. Understanding----Please add me to your list of Truth seekers

You have summed everything up very well.
Thanks

[findTruth]

74. Second recount in Ohio?

Talking about investigation, third-party candidates wanted second
recount of Ohio presidential, as what AP reported on 12/31/2004.
Does anyone know the status of that? Will that be a full hand
recount to avoid machine "errors"?

[corbett]

76. Kerry Will Press For That Upon His Return

Proving malfeasance in Ohio is the best way to assure a Kerry presidency. If he can arrange to have Blackwell arrested soon after his trip to the Middle East, he ought to be able to obtain enough evidence to delay the inauguration and, ultimately, be sworn in himself.

Is this a pipe dream? No, although it does rely on everything going exactly right for the next 2 weeks.

[Quakerfriend]

77. Are you serious, corbett?

It sounds so right! Is there really any chance for this?:shrug:

[understandinglife]

96. corbett, if you have any way to get this to Senator Kerry...

...please do:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=240726

We need him to engage. If he dosen't its his decision and I have way too much respect for him to ever say anything ugly; but, its my truly humble opinion that we need him to ACT.

Thank you.

[corbett]

107. Kerry's Home Address

I sent him a Christmas card. It was not returned. My guess is that his home address is the best way to reach him with regard to becoming president.

19 Louisberg Square
Boston, MA 02108

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x266530#266810

[understandinglife]

110. Most excellent; thank you. (n/t)

[IndyPriest]

104. Corbett: you make me positively giddy!

:bounce:

[corbett]

108. Thank You - Here's The Basis For My Confidence

It wouldn't stand up in a court but I believe down to my wires that we haven't seen the end of this story. What's more, I refuse to believe that Kerry will allow the shrub to be coronated with the mountain of evidence out there.

Of course, it helps that the shrub has been named personally in the Ohio lawsuits. However, most compelling to me is the fact that Bruce Springsteen decided to play free miniconcerts at Kerry events. Sure, it had to do in part with his ties to ACT but to me it is a simple impossibility that Mr. Springsteen would have agreed to make such a big political push without demanding answers from Kerry up front about how the current situation would be handled.

[findTruth]

117. Pennsylvania Announces Probe of E-Voting Machines

As what from Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Pennsylvania announces probe
of E-Voting machines. ( http://www.bradblog.com/ ). Hopefully, we
can do a full hand recount in Ohio, starting from a questionable
county, to compare the numbers from hand counting with machine
counting.. Is there any deadline for conducting second recount in
Ohio?

Kerry is on an oversea trip for two weeks. He will be back before
Bush's inauguration. It might be too late if we wait that long...

[Lurker321]

118. You can do a hand recount in Ohio today

just get a few bucks together, file the request with your county, and go and recount! Ohio has similar laws to Florida. See www.recountflorida.com for the description of the process.

[blm]

79. That's how I see it.

Great post.

[me b zola]

81. Understandinglife, you are indeed beautiful.

Thank you for the link, I am in the process of reading it. I, personally, will continue to work for justice in regards to the '04, specifically, and WTF is going on with the Democratic party, generally.

I am always impressed with your posts, once again, thank you.

[understandinglife]

101. You are too kind; thank you. And, let's truly PREVAIL!! (n/t)

[mod mom]

82. thank you Understanding, today was like nov 2nd for me, but

now I'm ready for a rumble!

[understandinglife]

83. Seems more than a few of our fellow citizens are ready to "rumble"...

...check comment # 78, above.

Thank you and I'm glad you're energized!

We will in_DEED prevail.

[mod mom]

84. I love velvet

and will pass the word

[Applan]

86. Remember Watergate?

Thankyou for this very positive and encouraging post. It's only two months after the election and look how much evidence there already is that it was stolen!!
How many years of investigation did it take before Nixon resigned?

It's far too early to give up on this.

[understandinglife]

87. Like it was 'yesterday'...

....lived in Georgetown DC from 1971-79. One of the "president's men" lived across the street from us; several of the other pukes lived in the neighborhood (all names you'd recognize, immediately).

That's why I mentioned to folk here yesterday that in those days it very much felt like 'one party rule' in DC.

But, then as now, its 'We The People...' everywhere else and I'd suggest a bunch of folk currently 'inside the beltway' not sign four year leases.

They really are all pumped and nasty, just as those goons were in Jan 1973. However, I think that as our efforts with Congressman Conyers and others continue in the days and weeks ahead its gonna start feeling like the 'summer of 73' -- that was one hot and humid summer!!

And, I really wish that all those here who are lamenting the MSM lack of coverage during the past two months, focus on this simple and true synopsis of 'watergate':

"...on the night of 17 June 1972, five burglars were arrested in the Democratic National Committee offices. Newspaper reports from that point began revealing bits and pieces of details that linked the Watergate burglars with President Richard Nixon's 1972 reelection campaign. The president and his chief assistants denied involvement,...."

Conyers "status report" already contains more that a few 'bits and pieces' and he's got all of us on his side, as well. It's going to get intense in the days and weeks ahead: count on it.

Peace.

[No Exit]

88. What a great, great, post!! n/t

[Lostnote03]

89. YESSSSSSS, it's on the record Now!!!!......The Phat Lady is not distracted

.....by "white noise"....lol....

[understandinglife]

92. Precisely -- all that happened is part of the Congressional Record..

.....and it is on countless disk drives and DVDs and digital files and ....

No escaping the reality that yesterday happened; it was historic; and its importance will grow every day because we will not relent in making it so.

Peace.

[ClarkinMich]

90. great post

It restores my confidence in why I cam to DU in the first place on 11/3/04... and the fact that this will not be a small 2 month chapter in my life (the time I was obsessed with the election), but instead a whole new act/section of my life {just beginning: How I fought for freedom, liberty and justice - and won}

Rename the forum, don't rename it - doesn't matter we are at critical mass here -- keep it going... the truth will out... justice will be done

a few final thoughts...
1) how ironic that today we hear of inditements in the 1964 killings of 3 civil rights workers in Mississippi. Since I wasn't alive then, and they didn't teach it in school - I stand to be corrected, but I believe that this was one of the firestater events that kept the civil rights movement going.... 1/6/05 is one of those events for this movement hopefully it doesn't take 40 years, but if so, I will be there...

2) No one knows the power of this internet, of the blogs, of this forum... we are just beginning to feel it... AMAZING things have and will continue to happen. The fact that we got this far, on seeminngly less evidence, with a more hostile media THAN ONLY 4 YEARS AGO - speaks to this power.

3) Someone with access (I do not know how to get to archives), please dig up a great post from a few weeks back - it was title the Spiral of Silence and compared this time to Nazi Germany in the 1930's... please re-post it, not enough people read it... WE HAVE TO DO BETTER THAN GERMANS IN THE 30'S

4)and finally, the quote that still keeps me going every day:

First they ignore you
.... then they laugh at you
........then they fight you
............then you win
- GHANDI

(I hope I got that right)

The fight is just beginning... let's give it our ALL!!!

[understandinglife]

91. You have contributed a 'most excellent' comment & here is the link...

...you requested:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=81767

Pertinent quote from that link:

"The answer to this question is the same as it was 60 years ago. The Spiral of Silence is the name of the phenomenon in which the people of Germany experienced during Hitler's rise to power. The number of people who know that the 2000 election was rigged and the growing revelation that this 2004 election was rigged is settling into the minds of the people and yet, where are the patriots, the protesters, the "voice of one calling in the desert"?

The true enemy of our country is the Spiral of Silence.
http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/Speech/rccs/theory09.htm

...."

And, I was very much alive and sobbing in front of the TV the night I watched the first NBC reports of the killing of those civil rights workers. And, this morning when I checked the NYTimes website (haven't watched TV since the mid-90s) I wept. I was sitting in my office and had to get up and close the door and I just sat there and wept.

You are absolutely correct; whatever it takes, we are going to prevail. Our American democracy will prove its robustness, because it is us who are robust and persistent and we will stop this attack.

Most importantly, we must begin finding as many ways as possible to inform all of our fellow citizens of both the scale of the attack on their rights and the fact that they must stop acting as if democracy is a spectator activity.

Peace.

[FreepFryer]

93. You are absolutely right. We will stay on top of the varying suits & inits

And apply more and more grassroots effort.

Educate your friends and family. I am stunned how many people I meet have no idea a challenge even took place.

Be confident, persuasive, and be okay being just a little bit smug when it comes to Republicans... If we're going to win we need to reclaim that moral high-ground (which, I believe we have not yet surrended, as a long line of voting/civil rights victories since 1920, or the Voting RIghts Act of 1965 - despite that horrible day in 2001 and the aborted HAVA funding of 2002 - would testify). The chapter is still before us to write - in how we respond to Election Fraud 2004.

We are under ruthless assault - do not claim responsibility for 'losing' touch with America.

Lady Liberty is being lured into an ambush. And we need to come to her aid now.

Believe in Yourself. That's Where Democracy Begins!

<edit: typo>

[understandinglife]

100. Superb!! And, for those who need a bit of a reminder about...

...who Senator Kerry is, read this:

in several instances, Kerry attacked what he called the "horrendous judgments" and "unbelievable blunders" of the Bush administration. The mistakes, he said, included former U.S. occupation leader Paul Bremer's decisions to disband the Iraqi army and purge the government of former members of Hussein's Baath Party. Both moves are widely believed to have fueled the largely Sunni insurgency.

"What is sad about what's happening here now is that so much of it is a process of catching up from the enormous miscalculations and wrong judgments made in the beginning," he said. "And the job has been made enormously harder."

He added, however, that it was time to move forward.

"Mistakes have been made," he said. "Now, it's a different time and different set of judgments that have to be made. I'm here to make judgments about what moves are available to us."

Kerry is visiting Iraq as part of a Middle East tour that also includes meetings with leaders in Egypt, Israel and the Palestinian territories. He said success in Iraq was vital as part of the struggle for wider change in the Middle East.

"The stakes are very important, very high, and not just for Iraq," he said. "You have another election in the West Bank, a set of challenges to Saudi Arabia, Egypt and the region that are quite daunting."

By:

Kerry Cheered in Baghdad, Decries Bush Team's 'Blunders'
By Borzou Daragahi
The San Francisco Chronicle

http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/010805W.shtml

(((((((((((((((((((

These actions of his are why I very much want to find some way to convince him to speak directly, forcefully and persistently about the fact of systematic disenfranchisement. I want him to say, as I've written to state simply and clearly -- No One Won This Election; No One Could Win This Election because many of our fellow citizens were either prevented from voting or have absolutely no way of knowing if their vote was counted as they intended.

Peace.

[corbett]

111. Sounds Like A Fighter And Statesman To Me

We haven't heard the last from president-elect Kerry!

[rdmccur]

97. I am ready and eager

to support Conyers in any way I can.
Which reminds me I better let him know that.

[ClarkinMich]

98. kicked

and nominated for homepage

so inspiring.

[Bill MI]

99. Don't get mad, get LOUD!!!

We need to flood the Judiciary Repuglicans with e-mails, letters, and phone calls in order to get them to understand how important this is. They MUST hold FULL investigations with subpeona powers.

<http://judiciary.house.gov/contact.aspx >

The idiots have megaphones, but we have numbers!

The Senate Democrats were cowed, this time by their constituents, into doing what they should have done in 2000. We can't stop now. The Fight has only begun!

[rdmccur]

102. Very good!

This is a perfect sequel to the grassroots movement that helped create the challenge.

[IndyPriest]

103. "...until we complete our investigation...": LOVE that line

WIth the BEST preamble in the fewest words: "But I hasten to add...". Hah! Conyers, you ol' dawg!

And, UL, you're not bad yerself!

[understandinglife]

106. And, that dude Blackwell, is making it soooo easy.....

....check this one:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Ohio-Election-Chief.html?oref=login

Ohio Letter Seeks Illegal Contributions
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: January 8, 2005

Filed at 3:02 p.m. ET

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- The state's chief elections officer, accused of mishandling the presidential vote in Ohio, sent a fund-raising letter for his own 2006 gubernatorial campaign that was accompanied by a request for illegal contributions.

A pledge card with the letter from Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell, a Republican who co-chaired the Bush-Cheney election campaign in Ohio, said ``corporate & personal checks are welcome.''
************************

Arrogance and stupid are a lethal cocktail; ready for another kenny...

"When Did Bush Know?"

[IndyPriest]

115. Best line from the AP story:

"I have an obligation to follow the law," Blackwell said. - No shit! I wonder if he has ANY idea what's coming down on him....

[Amaryllis]

105. RIGHT ON!

[bardgal]

109. I agree! WELL SAID! Thanks! This MUST BE FIXED NOW.

If we let it go, they'll just get better at it!

[Melissa G]

114. Kick! NGU! Fight Election FraWd! n/t

[ClarkinMich]

116. kicking again