Obama: As a person of colour, I felt let down

[liam97]

When he asserted that Bush won in Ohio and therefore he wasn;t going to vote for the challnge, I wanted to ask him

did he wait in the rain and cold with any of the black voters in Ohio?
did he speak to any of those who took a wage loss in order to vote?
did he speak to any of those who faced any intimidation?
did he speak to any of those whose votes were challenged?
did he participate in the public testimonies?
did he do anything to help with the recount?
did he study the exit polls?

So how did he know?

[ohioliberal]

1. I was too let down

I couldn't believe he did challenge the votes.

[billkurtmeyer]

2. Remember - he need to move slow - or they will crucify him!

[liam97]

3. racism can't be fought through chess games

it has to be fought by standing up, as Rosa Parks did

[RuleofLaw]

48. Why?

What the hell are the democrats afraid of?

[AlbizuX]

4. am I the only one that was never CHARMED by Obama?

I'm sorry...ever since he gave his little mini "I have a Dream" speech at the DNC convention, I noticed that all my Dem. counterparts suddenly went bananas for this guy. That is how bad the hunger for a REAL leader is...that we settle for a Democratic Party approved Biracial that appeals to both our oppressed black minorities and mostly recalcitrant white majorities. How does he do it? By painting his hopelessly vague picture of an unracialized America...the old I Have I Dream speech that characterized Martin Luther King's first years in politics.

What most of America conveniently forgets is that Martin later, after presencing America's racism, overt and institutional, decided to change his tactics to one of Active and Disruptive Civil Disobedience...his rhetoric of naive co-existence between peaceful races in the United States was eliminated, and he embraced a militant non-violence that would force society to listen to the demands of blacks. Blacks have never resolved their anger at what continues to be done to them, but whites continue to cling strongly to the I Have A Dream speech because it conveniently gives them the hope of a racism-free society, without doing the hard work of dismantling white privilige and conducting self-reflection on how we are racists in our ways. Prof. Dyson, in his book about Martin Luther King, likes to call this the two perspectives of Martin Luther King. The black perspective is justifiably militant and concerned with results. The white perspective is, before anything else, looking for a compromise strategy and is concerned with assuading guilty consciousness, even at the expense of meaningful progress. The black perspective is fundamentally about improving black lives...everything else is secondary (including repairing relations with the rest of America, liberal or conservative). The white liberal perspective is concerned, above all, with not angering the conservative whites. The black community is the sacrificial lamb of the accord between whites to agree on a compromise strategy of slow, gradual racial progress...at the pace set, inevitably, by its most recalcitrant members, Conservative White America. And here lies the explanation for Obama's sudden rise in white liberal America.

Obama, for the first time, has played the same song...and liberal white America (and some conservative white America) have enjoyed hearing the I Have A Dream tune...makes them feel better without actually doing anything. Even some blacks have been mesmerized by the song of this Siren.

But, Obama is no Malcolm X. He's no Martin Luther King. He's not even Medgar Evers. He's a party apparatchik masquerading as Racial Reconciler Supreme...and its about time we understood that, and not fooled ourselves into thinking Obama is the next Martin Luther King.

Who actually started the worship cycle with Obama? Was it the black press? Was it the black community? No...it was liberal white America. It was their press. It was the New York Times, Time, Newsweek, etc. Shouldn't that make anyone suspicious?

Obama is liberal white America's guilty and unresolved consciousness, depositing their hopes in a moderate who will shake the boat slightly, without shaking it so much that it radicalizes the White Backlash majority of Reagan. It's the compromise between whites, liberal and conservatives, the gradual, piecemeal warrior for "civil rights".

And while conservatives laugh at the naiveness of the Democratic Party in thinking that some half-black/half-white politician will somehow reconcile the rational humanism embodied in much of liberalism with the irrational, pseudo-fascist theocratic/imperialist thought that informs much of the modern Republican party, liberals enjoy a good run of intellectual masturbation and self-contentment for "doing something" about racism...

One is finally led to ask....what about the black community? Are they satisfied with Obama?

[liam97]

5. No you are not the only one....

[Orsino]

6. I was charmed...

...by reading his book, never having heard more than excerpts of his famous speech. I had high hopes when I heard that he would stand by Senator Boxer.

I don't want to believe this of him, but yes, he's let us down, too.

[AlbizuX]

9. there should be no shame....

in declaring that you were charmed. It only means that you have high hopes and aspirations for a better American society. That's a noble thing.

However, that's where history becomes useful. When you know the truth about the TRUE black leaders of this nation, you understand what should be done, and can decipher which future leaders will be of the caliber of Martin Luther King.

Obama never struck me as anything incredibly special...in fact, I have more faith in someone like Conyers, even being the moderate Congressman that he is (in comparison to a militant Malcolm X) in advancing the cause, than Obama.

Notice that Conyers challenged the election, Obama did not.

Always remember...Obama is white liberal America's compromise package to Conservative America...it's about their consciousness, guilty feelings, and resolutions...black America is secondary to them...and Obama won't shake the boat to make black America PRIMARY.

[Orsino]

13. Well, dang...

I was hoping to vote for him for President some day. I'll have to boycott him, too, afer yesterday's lackluster performance.

[propagandafreegal]

20. I was intrigued but with any politician these days I planned to watch

ever MOVE he makes in the Senate before I gave him my blessing. He is NOT off to a good start, IMO.

[propagandafreegal]

15. Good point...rop

>>Who actually started the worship cycle with Obama? Was it the black press? Was it the black community? No...it was liberal white America. It was their press. It was the New York Times, Time, Newsweek, etc. Shouldn't that make anyone suspicious?

<<

I agree!

[Kolesar]

18. Oh, please

"But, Obama is no Malcolm X. He's no Martin Luther King. He's not even Medgar Evers. He's a party apparatchik masquerading as Racial Reconciler Supreme..."

Did Obama ever say he was the next Martin Luther King? I think his political career speaks for itself. He was a charismatic candidate who won nicely and would have won even if he had faced Sen. Ryan with our without the adult dance club stories.

[AlbizuX]

21. you're right...

but the liberal white press, and liberal whites are thinking of him as the possible next Racial Reconciler Supreme...

and who was that before? Martin Luther King.

Maybe Obama doesn't think of himself in that way...but liberal white America sure does...

[Kolesar]

25. what writers and press are you referring to?

names, please.

[mattclearing]

26. That's pretty lame though. King never would have run for office, right?

I think MLK had an appropriate distaste for the requirements of political success.

He had a moral calling to attend to that would not abide the need for pandering to constituencies and the building of fragile coalitions.

[HeilChimp]

53. Count me in as another Democrat who doesn't GET all the Obama hype

I've known Obama longer than most people, I even live near the STATE Senate district he represented for the last 10 years. People seem to forget that a couple of years ago, Obama was known as the state legislator who "couldn't even beat Bobby Rush" in the Democratic primary for Congress.

I like Obama personally, but I see nothing amazing about the guy. He's TOO polished and cautious. He seems to be a media creation, a slick talking suit who's "acceptable" to white moderates and doesn't say anything to "offend" them. I didn't vote for him in the Senate primary, I think there were several stronger choices for progressives, including Nancy Skinner and Joyce Washington.

I suppose it's pretty cool that a guy named "Barack Obama" could be elected to the U.S. Senate in a landslide, but as I noted earlier, it really had nothing to do with HIS own campaigning skills (again, see his 2000 campaign for Congress). It was because the Illinois Repukes self-destructed and this is a Democrat state. Obama didn't even have an opponent for several months. I think if Fitzgerald had run again, it would have been a tough fight and we would truly know if Obama had what it took.

I don't see why the media thinks Obama broke some kind of glass ceiling by being a black male in the U.S. Senate. Did Illinois elect Carol Moseley-Braun in 1992? The fact that a black progressive can win statewide in Illinois is not news. The fact that a black progressive can hold federal office is not news. In fact, I hate to break the festivities over this "landmark" election, but there have ALREADY been three black males in the U.S. Seante.

NO politician can live up to this amount of hype. It's as if Barack Obama is the "Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menance" of progressive politics. There are probably over a dozen outstanding black progressive politicians who are also "rising stars" in the party and would make better Senators than Obama, and the media IGNORES them. Does that piss anyone else off? Harold Ford makes a pretty speech to the Dem convention in 2000 and the media proclaims he's a future presidential candidate and walks on water. Obama does the same in 2004 and then everyone forgets about Ford and proclaims he's a future presidential candidate who walks on water. The white media needs to give it a rest already with these smooth-talking "acceptable" black Dems who appeal to white voters, I'm starting to find it pretty offensive.

As of right now, I think Durbin will continue to be a stronger voice for Illinois Democrats. And if any Senator has proven they are future presidential material at this time, it's Barbara Boxer.

As for Obama, he was never my top choice for the Senate, but he'll do. At least his voting record should be good.

[lonestarnot]

7. OBAMA COOPTED ALREADY!

[Jersey Devil]

17. Too funny!

So you expect that the new kid on the block should open up his act by sticking himself with a thorn he will have to wear for the rest of his political career. You must understand politics. To do so would leave him (or anyone else with presidential aspirations) a target for political "Swiftboating".

[AlbizuX]

22. if he's interested in politics, rather than justice

then more evidence he's not Martin Luther King...and liberal white America should abandon the hope they deposit in him.

[Jersey Devil]

24. MLK was not seeking political office

and I have never heard Obama claim to be the next MLK. He is a smart, very articulate, dynamic leader with great political potential. To be a politician means you have to accept some compromise in order to move forward.

MLK was not burdened by such restrictions nor do I think he would ever allow himself to be hindered by political realities.

[never_get_over_it]

23. I completely understand his not voting with Boxer

because of his aspirationst for the future BUT what really upset me was that he so emphatically said Bush won - he could have left that out of his speech or said we are not trying to overturn the outcome but to bring light to the issue of voting irregularities - BUT he was so emphatic that it made me very disappointed in him....and I had been impressed.

[Jersey Devil]

27. You have a point there

He didn't have to rub it in, so to speak. But maybe he was overly concerned about being labeled a tinfoil hatter and overcompensated. Look, I think the guy should be cut a break. After all, this was the first time for him. I think it is somewhat like sex - it takes a while to get the hang of it before you really can do it the right way.

[liam97]

32. we understand politics

but don't think voting to support a group of very senior and respected democrats would be such bad politics for a young democratic senator

[RuleofLaw]

49. In other words

Democrats can never take a stand for something, because they will be attached by the GOP?

Wow, guess my definition of an opposition party is wrong then!

[sundog]

8. True Blue: Jesse Jackson, Jr.

Amazing speech in the House yesterday. No compromise.

Saw a clip on Democracy Now this morning.

Here's a link:

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/il02_jackson/050106VotingSystemNeedsFoundation.html

[kk897]

45. JJJ is the one to watch... (sorry, another long one)

The guy's on FIRE about this issue.

I'm not a person of color, but I have made an observation about DU that distresses me.

<rant>I've noticed here that threads dealing with the racial side of the issue generally sink like a stone after about 30 posts. Example: discussion of the incredibly powerful "Folks Don't Get It" dKos diary. Example: discussion of the incredibly powerful "No Holiday for Vote Thieves" on blackcommentator.com. Several threads were started on both of these, but apparently not that many people were interested in discussing the issues brought up in them.

It's almost as if DUers acknowledge that, yeah, the fraud was sort of racist, but that investigating that angle only serves as a step toward achieving the goal of conquering a common enemy. I'm all for using different weapons against a common enemy, but I think many DUers are deceiving themselves if they don't think of this as first and foremost a civil rights issue and that the people who will be most negatively affected by election fraud are primarily people of color and perhaps to a somewhat lesser extent poor white people. I hear them saying things like, "yeah, let's call them Jim Crow Republicans," but I have to wonder if that isn't a tactic they'd employ so that they can eventually remove Republicans from power. (Again, a good thing, but not necessarily for the same reasons as Black people would like to remove them from power).

It's true that it's also about supressing white Democratic votes, but why supress white Dems? I personally believe at its root, whether the far right will admit it or not, lies deeply entrenched racism and homophobia. They see supressing white Dem votes as a means to an end, too: keeping people of color and other poor people out of the way. See, when you have to consider what's best for them, it threatens their ENTIRE agenda of reducing federal government, taxes, services, etc. I don't know if this is making sense...

Some people will say that it's "white liberal guilt" that I'm expressing, and therefore marginalize my comments. Well, let me tell you, I won't know true marginalization until I've been a person of color in this country. Neither will those white people who criticize me on this point.

I say, well, yeah, I'm a liberal, I'm white, and I do feel guilty. I feel guilty that I've been granted privledge because of my skin color. I feel guilty that ANYONE doesn't have the same privledge because I personally haven't done enough to assist. Sometimes guilt is good; it can be a powerful motivator. White liberals in America SHOULD feel guilty. They have not been a powerful enough part of the solution, so they're sort of part of the problem, aren't they. But I'm also angry as hell at people who aren't giving this aspect of election fraud its true due.

People are throwing roses at Boxer...and I say, bah! What did she risk, really? A career in Washington? Maybe. Maybe not. But who approached whom about this issue? I'm glad she finally stepped up, but even she acknowledges that it was too late.

No, the real heroes are those who time and time again must cajole their white liberal compatriots into acting. White liberals who are concerned about election fraud should listen and be prepared to act on the messages of the community leaders of those most affected by election fraud. It's not our job to ride in on a white horse to the rescue. It's our job to assist in whatever way we can to assure this NEVER NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN. Not for white liberals who hate conservative policies or corruption, but for those who have been struggling for hundreds of years to obtain true personhood in America. </rant>

So, Black DUers, how can we help? What would you like white liberal DUers to do? Or me, personally (i.e., "go fuck yourself and the white horse you rode in on"?).

[liam97]

46. agree - this is not about black or white or any other color

but a sense of justice and equality. I said I felt especially let down by Obama because his legitimation of Bush's win was politically more damaging to the objection because of his colour. It should not be this way but it is

[sundog]

47. Yeah but JJJ isn't on the cover of Time

True integrity certainly won't land you on a magazine cover these days. :eyes:

At least Democracy Now devoted a segment to him this morning. It was inspiring to watch.

[Jersey Devil]

10. Do you assert that 112,000 Ohioans were prevented from voting?

Those who stood in long lines and stayed to vote, those who got wet in the rain and stayed to vote, or lost pay in order to vote, or who were intimidated but voted anyway have a legit bitch about their civil rights being violated, but their votes were counted.

The only question is did 112,000 Kerry voters get turned away by these lines and intimidation?

No one can prove that.

[AlbizuX]

11. and that is why the fraud issue was doomed to not changing the outcome

We knew that if those impediments were not there, Kerry would have win.

But that's a case of coulda, shoulda, woulda.

Our job is to fix the electoral system for the future...Bush will be gone in 4 years...the chance to fix the electoral system forever is not.

[flpoljunkie]

12. The problem is we don't know if the will of the people reflected results.

Why? Because we don't know if the counting software for the punch card system in Ohio had been compromised, and Ohio officials, namely Blackwell, will fight to the bitter end to keep this proprietary software secret.

[liam97]

16. For the millionth time

this is not about Kerry. This is about racism in America. It does not matter if 10 black voters were intimidated or 10,000, if there are civil rights violation in an election, then it violates constitutional standards. That is the point.

[BR_Parkway]

29. Can't so of these groups, or even individuals in a class action, sue

Blackwell, State of Ohio, I guess some of the individual BOE folks who made some of the decisions that were made and how it disenfranchised their rights?

[MarkusQ]

30. Yes, I assert that.

First off, many of the votes of the people who stood in line were not counted, for various reasons. Next, in order for there to be such lines, people must be ariving to vote faster than the can be let in to vote. This must go on until the difference is made up by people being discouraged by the the lines and leaving. At that point, things stablize. A little math shows that about 320,000 is a reasonable guess for how many voters were turned away.

The lines were almost exclusively in heavily Democratic precincts.

--MarkusQ

[Jersey Devil]

36. "a little math"? What you really mean is "a lot of speculation"

We don't even know if there were 320,000 registered voters in the areas where there were lines to be turned away let alone start guessing about how many of them just turned around and went home.

[propagandafreegal]

14. I think what a local black radio station said was right ro...

They said, when Obama blasted on the scene if the majority loves him he is someone to watch out for.

I believe it. Now.

[mordarlar]

19. Why are you guys isolating him?

They all said that this would not turn the election. Some Senators who have been there most of my life even said this. He is new to the Senate. I was Incredibly impressed to see him stand. That right there could have been a political death sentence. He is not a fool. He knows this. And yet he stood. Perhaps these people should have said nothing. Sat quiet. Then they would not be the focus of so much rage.

[liam97]

34. not isolating him but

thought studpidly that gross violation of voting rights of black voters would mean something to him

[mordarlar]

37. What did you want him to do?

It seemed to me he did care. He stood he spoke on it. You wanted him to vote? To be the ONLY senator to claim Kerry won? Not even Boxer went that far.

[MadisonProgressive]

28. I have wondered if any senators even read the Conyers report

[mirandapriestly]

33. Probably not....sigh.................n/t

[mirandapriestly]

31. When Obama said that he has no doubt that * won

I knew I was in for a big disappointment. how can you admit that there was disenfranchisement and then say you are sure that * won? Not to mention the evidence of wrong doing and the exit polls, which he said nothing about. He's no hero.

[mordarlar]

38. THEY ALL SAID THIS EVEN BOXER

[liam97]

39. Boxer said as did Tubbs-Jones that this was not

about the outcome - but whatever they said they challenged the election. Obama and others could have said just that and supported the challenge.

[mordarlar]

40. So because of the phrasing of the same fact...

He is not a hero and they are? Seriously, if we alienate everyone who takes a stand for us we might find at some point, people will NOT BE WILLING TO. These people need our support now. They took a GIGANTIC risk. And we are being horribly ungrateful. No amount of Democratic votes would have turned this. But they could have SAID nothing. They could have let it go and made Boxer look like a nutjob. They stood with her. They made clear to everyone watching that there WAS FRAUD. We should be grateful and encourage them to make a larger stand with us in all of our future endeavors. Not showing them to stand with us is not only death with Republicans but with us as well.

[Freddie Stubbs]

41. It would have taken the disenfranchisement of over 100,000 people

to have changed the result of the election. Is there any evidence of that many people be disenfranchised? :shrug:

[mordarlar]

42. There may actually be that many but...

without a majority in the fraudulently appointed House and Senate we could not have gotten the vote to overturn. Out best option is to prove criminal activity of some of the players. People falling bring down other people.

[liam97]

43. On the actual number of people disenfranchised

I will try and dig it out - but there was a study about 2000 which put the national total at about 2 million

[carolinalady]

35. Hey he is a newbie and at least he stood up--MOST of them

did not have the guts. If he wants to be an infuential member he needs to tread cautiously. I know we would all like to see them take on the establishment, but it takes cooperation between members of the Senate to get anything accomplished. He is walking a fine line. I am sure there are alot of issues he would like to address. If he makes this his platform, he could harm his ability to do a variety of good work. It takes a majority to make things happen. JMO.

[Pepper32]

44. Unfortunately, Obama was just going along with the flow. eom

[Machiavelli05]

50. Both Tubbs-Jones and Boxer were pleased the objection went so far

They werent looking for any other votes. They knew theyd be standing alone.

[mzmolly]

52. Some people don't understand that strategy plays a role in all of this.

Boxer felt she could afford to take a stand, others felt they should support her.

Also, Tubbs-Jones had 32 other members voting with her, which is a beautiful thing!

:hi:

[anaxarchos]

51. The jury is still out on Obama.

But the Caucus was HUGE yesterday. Conyers isn't that much of a "moderate" and I wish Dellums was still around but I agree absolutely on Jackson Jr. Not only is he on fire, but he is the first to lay out a program. Screw HAVA, screw States Rights, Screw the Electoral College. Universal Registration, Direct Federal Elections, A Constitutional Ammendment guarenteeing the right to vote. It's a Republican nightmare.