Trying to feel good about yesterday...

[mirrera]

In reference to the debate following the challenge, put forth by the Democrtats, to Ohio's Electoral College votes

Someone help me feel better about yesterday! Chocolate and good incense are not working, and I quit smoking three years ago! Here is what I feel conflicted about:

In a debate both sides of an issue are defended and attacked. The winner of the debate is the one who outlines their position in the most convincing way. The Democrats official reason for the debate was to Challenge the slate of Ohio's Electoral votes. According to many activists, and I include myself, the realistic purpose of the debate was to highlight the problems of our election system, and frame the issue as non partisan in order to position ourselves for meaningful election reform. With the official purpose of the challenge not being the real, purpose, we immediately became a soft target.

There was a Republican that said that if the Democrats were just doing this to discuss election reform, then this was not the place or time for doing that. He went on to say that they were supposed to be there to certify the Electoral College vote. Now JUST from a rigid debate standard, and I am no expert, he seemed correct. The Democrats in framing the debate, never made a real point about challenging the Electoral votes. I may have missed something as I had the Senate debate on my laptop, the Congress on my other computer, the phone in my hand and a friend arrived soon after the Senate vote.

A debate is a pretty formal endeavor. My son is taking a debate class right now, so I am extra sensitive to the format. From a formal view of the debate, the Democrats put themselves in the losing position by calling for a debate on an issue, then prefacing all their arguments with statements that seemed to apologize for the same position! At the least, they seemed to be qualifying themselves and the debate as ineffective. They did a brilliant job of outlining many of the problems with the election system, but did not follow through to the natural conclusion such an argument would merit. That conclusion, at least in argument, should have been a challenge to the slate of Electors from Ohio.

When the Republicans' stood one after another and offered no good arguments for excusing what happened in Ohio or elsewhere, they should not have won the debate. Their arguments were laughable, disrespectful, partisan and disgraceful. What makes me furious, is that when ALL the Democrats voted against Barbara Boxer, purely from a debate standpoint, they were siding with the Republicans' arguments over those of the Democrats. No matter how you try to frame that, by all standards of debate, they were saying in unison that the Democrats' argument was too weak, or the Republicans' message was stronger. That was pathetic, and it is what I can not get around or over. If we don't hand out consequences for wrong doing, crime definitely pays!

This is what the Republicans would have done to us: They would have started and ended every speech with something like "I challenge the right of Ohio to put forth these Electors because of the shoddy way the elections were handled!" Then as a block they would have voted to support the challenge. Even holding their noses! The election would still happen, and yes they would call it partisan, but unfortunately, it is. Fighting this group one must take the offensive, no amount of apology or concession will stop the abuse.

I want to feel better about it, and I certainly want to fuel the continuing investigation in the I hope that we can change our electoral system.

I am terrified of the nationalistic furor I see being encouraged by this administration and the corporate media. Most of my mom's family died in the holocaust, so I do not think my fears are unjustified...

I am angry, confused, and frustrated that we have let our country be taken over...again, and I am being told to "get over it" by Republicans, and Democrats...

Please do not flame me, or tell me I am "addicted" to being miserable, people that know me would not agree. I am truly looking for someone to give me some concrete reason to believe we will have democracy (the vote, and a truthful media) again/ever.
Maria

[Acryliccalico]

1. Feeling the same here

[MoonRiver]

2. I totally agree.

With 32 exceptions, our Dem leaders uniformly betrayed us. Shame on them.

[Child_Of_Isis]

3. It's gone....

our vote and the media. And the people we put in place to represent us, have taken us for granted.


By the way, nice observation: Democrats put themselves in the losing position by calling for a debate on an issue, then prefacing all their arguments with statements that seemed to apologize for the same position


The word apologize fits perfectly.

[Smoochie]

4. That's a powerful post there Mirrera.

I agree with everything you've written, yet at the same time, I feel sooo happy today because at last the MSM silence has been broken, even if they've put their own spin on it - which is only to be expected. And yes, I would have felt even happier if more people had stood with Boxer and Stubbs-Jones.

It was a shock to hear that the senators who stood and supported the motion then didn't vote for it, but it was such a relief that *anybody* did, that I still feel optimistic today. The Dems made powerful points, raised awareness of many of the important and *specific* problems with the Ohio elections and the Repugs were forced to showed their true colours, ie that they aren't interested in true democracy, and aren't interested in 'healing the nation' no matter what they say.

So here are a couple of suggestions:
Listen in to Air America to hear other liberal viewpoints - wonderfully outspoken and unfettered by corporate bribes and threats.

Keep a close eye on what's going on with Cobb and the Green party and their ongoing investigations into the Ohio election irregularities, and give them all the support and encouragement you can.

Cliff Arnebeck of the Alliance for Democracy is convinced the election was stolen and has written to the senators to say so, and he has the legal cases submitted and the legal expertise to go after it. Support these two groups and encourage your party faithful to give them whatever support they need vocally and loudly, so that the 'justice' system is unable to sweep this under the carpet and carry on the status quo for 4 more awful years.

You must NOT give in to despair, otherwise they really have won! Instead, be as active as you can to fight the good fight - write letters, emails, write to the papers, publish your own flyers/ bumper stickers, stand for election - however far you feel you can go! Arm yourself with knowledge, and be prepared with your counter-arguments when anyone dares say to you 'get over it' about the theft of the election.

:hug:

[mirrera]

6. It IS true the Republicans looked bad!

Thanks for pointing that out. I truly believe we won votes this election, because of how badly Bush did in the debates. Maybe we will win a transparent vote and media for the same reasons...
Maria

[wiggs]

5. Great points on the debate.

I also believe the dems missed an opportunity....But that's my perspective: that the democratic party is the opposition party that needs to fight for every bit of power it can, that it needs to matter more, that it needs to be unified, that it needs to stand for what is right, that democracy matters more than politics, that we are waaay behind the curve in terms of battle strategy, that democratic congress is being marginalized to the point of oblivion.

This is the way it appears to me. There is the chance that they wrangled a deal behind the scenes...traded electoral vote opposition for some real legislative clout on some issue down the road, but this is only theory. The republicans have shown almost no interest in compromising with the democrats.

I'm copying your debate points. Thanks.

[mirrera]

7. Thank you for the reply!

I actually had to go take a shower and I was sure, because I am not sufficiently on the rah rah train, my post would sink faster then i could find it again with my dial up! I wish we had some Dems that would force our frame of reference on the media. They only quote famous people that make a stink.