To the Apologists and the Despairing

[Der Blaue Engel]

Please take a moment to recall that Will's poll yesterday about whether it was a good day or a waste of time was overwhelmingly (87% last time I saw it, with over 100 responses) IT WAS A GOOD DAY.

So we have ALL of these gloom and doom posts filling the forum so quickly that anything positive drops to the 2nd page in about 5 minutes...and yet only 15% of the people here claim yesterday was not a good day.

I find that curious.

[emulatorloo]

1. Wonder if any of these folks are here?

[xultar]

6. I'm sure they are, I can smell the stench. n/t

[Zenlitened]

2. Heck, if we can't devour each other here, where CAN we go to trash Dems?

;)

[xultar]

9. Hey I have one for you...

[TexasSissy]

3. The difference is...

that there are differences among having a good day, something not being a waste of time, and something not accomplishing anything.

I think yesterday was NOT a waste of time (it's always good to get an important issue discussed in a public forum). But it was not a good day in the sense that it didn't really accomplish anything.

Time will tell, I guess.

[Der Blaue Engel]

8. By definition, something that is not a waste of time

Must have accomplished something.

Anyway, 85% of us think so. :)

[medeak]

4. kick!

[knowbody0]

5. curioser and curioser

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
yesterday rocked imho

[intheflow]

7. I am so depressed today that when I saw Will's poll

I couldn't bring myself to vote either way.

I honestly didn't expect to be this upset today. I never thought the election would be overturned or anything that silly. But I did hope that more of my elected officials would stand up against the kind of politcal targeting of minority and poor votes that made Jim Crowe so infamous.

:shrug:

[Der Blaue Engel]

12. I've noticed that when I read angry, shitty threads...

...I start believing them and getting really, really depressed.

Then if someone posts something encouraging, I remember what I was feeling in the first place before the angry, shitty thread.

I'm going to try not to feed angry, shitty threads anymore and post what I'm feeling, and see where that gets me. :)

[intheflow]

15. Agreed, this whole election cycle has been an emotional rollercoaster.

You are wise not to feed the angry threads. I try not to feed them myself. But I'm not angry. Just... despairing for the soul of America.

Andit wasn't the threads that led to my despair, but the MSM "coverage" which noted the objections but did not explore the reasons behind them.

But I've been fighting these fights a long time, and "the day after" something big always knocks the wind out of me. I'll bounce back to my optimistic, rabble-rousing self in a few days. Until then, I'll keep reading and responding to hopeful posts like yours.

[Der Blaue Engel]

19. Thanks, ITF

What's funny is that I'm bipolar (class II, a kind that doesn't get the manic highs, but has frequent, debilitating lows), and yet something sort of snapped in me a few weeks ago that refuses to give in to the despair that tempts me.

I won't say I'm not feeling any despair, but I lay it firmly at the feet of those who are trying to steal this country from me, and I'm refusing to be defeated by it.

:)

[progressiveandproud]

48. Yes.

I'm making a mental note to myself to seek out positive news and positive opinions. To really seek them. I'm beginning to think I'm capable of steering myself away from the doom and gloom. We can make that choice.

'Cause I feel like I'm feeding my own negativity by indulging in reading or listening to others'.

Don't think of rhinocerus.
Don't think of rhinocerus.

Don't think of an elephant!

It's like the whole "framing" issue. Nixon said, "I'm not a crook," but the image stuck. I guess the point is that even by reading negative words or opinions, by indulging in that negative frame of mind, is enough to get sucked into the negativity.

So, I guess, rather than "don't think negative", the solution is to "think positive".

[intheflow]

49. You're so right.

The choice is ours to make. Welcome to DU, progressiveandproud! :hi:

[Jo March]

18. Well, then, come on over to THIS thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=262387&mesg_id=262387&page=

We welcome all DUers who believed that yesterday was a good day and a firm foundation for getting election reform.

We have come up with several good action categories and we need for people to sign up for tasks.

We want to capitalize on the momentum of yesterday.

We only want posters who can post solutions as opposed to problems. It's a positive thread full of great people. :)

[Der Blaue Engel]

25. Fabulous!

Thanks, arnheim.

Any suggestions as to the most important posts to read? I'm getting brainfry and not absorbing information when I read long threads...should I just start at the end and work my way up?

[Jo March]

31. There's a post that says something like

Current tasks with the time and the date. Start with that one!

Thanks! :hi:

[seito]

10. Here's the poll

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x253277

[Der Blaue Engel]

13. Thanks, seito!

LOL...480 to 80.

Hmmm...what to think? {she puzzled and puzzed}

[cyn2]

11. Feels to me like post-partum depression

Or the after-christmas blues, or coming back to work after vacation.

Intensity has subsided, so people are out-of-sorts. Allow them their time to mourn.

[ClayZ]

14. BETTER BAD NEWS

This was perfect with my coffee this morning!

http://www.betterbadnews.com

(Newbie/lurker)

[Der Blaue Engel]

17. Thanks, ClayZ

And welcome to DU! :hi:

And I have friends bitching and moaning that we didn't get the youth vote this time...ha!

There is hope for our country yet! :)

[txindy]

16. It was a very telling poll

I wish he had read the results of his own poll before letting the naysayers and disruptors know that they succeeded in driving him away. That's like giving them Christmas all over, again. :eyes:

[Der Blaue Engel]

20. Yes, I agree

Perhaps I will PM him. :)

[meganmonkey]

21. Well put, Blue Angel!!!

:hi:

I admit, last night I went a little nutso and I fed a few trolls here and there, but I have since recovered and I pledge that I will do my best to not feed the trolls.

Except once in a while. :P

[Mistwell]

22. Only 560 people voted

I think it is fair to say that a large number of people who are depressed about what happened are not bothing to vote in that poll.

[Der Blaue Engel]

26. Thanks

That was really insightful information.

:eyes:

[Mistwell]

32. It was as insightful as the initial post

It was no more or less insightful than "only 15% of the people here claim yesterday was not a good day".

[Der Blaue Engel]

33. Thanks for kicking my thread Misty!

:hi:

[Mistwell]

47. Hey I am for free speech

Just because I disagree with you on this issue doesn't mean I disagree with you on everything. I'm all for you getting the best shot possible at spreading your message...hence I am kicking your thread again.

But, I still disagree with you, and think the poll you referenced is not a sample of this board that fairly represents the views here.

It is similar to taking a poll of lazy people, asking people to go to a poll website and vote whether or not they view themselves as lazy. The poll would inevitably result in an overwhelming majority saying they are not lazy...because the REAL lazy ones would never get up the energy to go take the poll in the first place.

Here, it was asked if people felt defeated or not...a day after the event in question. I do really think that MANY people who feel defeated are not going to bother to take the poll. They don't have the energy or spirit for it. They don't want to drag others down with their unhappiness, or argue with a bunch of people over whether their feelings are justified or not. So, they ignore the thread in hopes of finding like minded people in other threads that speak more to how they feel at the time.

Do you really think that poll received a fair and representative sampling from this message board forum?

[Cheswick2.0]

36. it was a stupid poll

I didn't vote in it. It was black and white and failed to give an grey choices.

[FreepFryer]

23. Liberal Democracy means we can't burn trolls, but we can burn the flag.

Maybe we should rethink things a bit.

Just kidding! :)

[MoonRiver]

24. The trouble is what was merely "good" could have been magnificent

and earth shattering. No, it would not have stopped bush's certification, but it would have put the Repukes on notice that Dems in Congress are mad as hell and NOT putting up with election cheating and dirty tricks any longer. Instead, they rubber stamped another stolen election. :puke:

[Der Blaue Engel]

27. Yes, let us hate the good for not being magnificent

on edit: I understand where you're coming from, but I still feel a sense of happy amazement that we even accomplished what we did.

When I heard Tubbs-Jones say "Yes, I do have a senator" I actually screamed and clapped and leaped in the air. Then I started sobbing for joy. It was the first time I had seen something truly patriotic happen in that chamber in a LONG time.

The tiniest step forward after you've been told you will never walk again is worth celebrating and feeling good about.

[MoonRiver]

28. And I understand what you're saying because I had those same

feelings when I heard Tubbs-Jones and then Boxer speak. I am incredibly disappointed though that a golden opportunity, which may never arise again was lost. If just a few Dems besides Boxer had voted not to ratify I would probably not be in this emotional state. I cannot see the downside to them doing so. This wasn't a court of law where we were trying to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. It involved the ratification of a state election, where rampant irregularities and downright voter disenfranchisement occurred and are well documented. As Boxer stated she should have done something in 2000, but Gore asked her not to. Well, Kerry didn't want to have anything to do with this challenge either. But this was about protecting Americans' right to vote! NOT Gore or Kerry! That's what makes me mad. Our Senators didn't stand up for US. Instead they rubber stamped an illegitimate election, once again. Come 2008 the system will be so thoroughly altered and rigged that challenges probably won't even be allowed.

[seabeyond]

29. did good yesterday if you are keeping count

i want my vote counted

[Amigust]

30. The wording was too black and white to answer, so I didn't.

However,

it was good that the challenge happened at all;

it was disastrous that 87% of the Dems in Congress are eunuchs who didn't have the nerve or understanding of the massive fraud to support the challenge;

and yes, something was accomplished: 30-some patriots stepped forward,

but the bellowing message, thanks to the 87%, is that the result of the fraud is acceptable and Democracy is not important enough to defend with vigor.

Imagine how much different it would all appear now if nearly all of the Dems had voted together in support of the challenge, as the Pugs would have surely done if had it been Dem fraud and a Dem usurper.

Any jawboning Dems do later about election reform will be muted and rendered substantially less relevant by the fact that 87% of them accepted the fraud yesterday.

(edited for clarity)

[Cheswick2.0]

34. QUICK EVERYBODY FALL IN LINE

There is only one permissible feeling or opinion here.

[ClarkUSA]

35. Election Reform Is A Top Priority and Yesterday Was A Step Forward....

that's the bottom line for me.

[Cheswick2.0]

37. the democrats do not have the power to force real reform

hell they didn't even take the power they do have. If they had all voted together with Boxer they would have sent a message to the american people. But instead they hemmed and hawed and apologised for speaking up. The american people will never believe there was fraud in Ohio because most of the democrats who spoke yesterday told them there wasn't. "Bush Won, Bush Won Bush Won".
You can bet that if the roles had been reversed, every single republican would have voted yay, and screamed "INTENTIONAL ELECTION FRAUD" from the floor of the senate and house.

I have no problem with people being pleased with yesterday. I am sick of people getting all nasty because other's are not as pleased as they are. There is a real goosestepping culture around here lately.

[IndyPriest]

38. Not one permissable feeling. It's more

about the whiplash affect, I think. Here's a good thread about it over in GD-P:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1474549&mesg_id=1474549

[Der Blaue Engel]

40. Where do you get that out of my pointing out that

the people who are feeling negative are posting a lot, but don't appear to represent a majority of the feelings here?

This is such a ridiculous comeback, to say that anyone who objects to YOU or what you believe in, is saying you can't have an opinion?

No, I am only pointing something out that seems true to ME.

You are more than welcome to believe as you wish, and post as you wish. As am I.

[EFerrari]

39. For the Big Tent of Diversity, you guys sure like sameness.

I haven't been here long but it continues to surprise me how intolerant the board gets of simple human ups and downs. Not the fast track to relaxed creativity.

[Der Blaue Engel]

41. Who are "you guys"?

I posted my opinion, based on observation, and the results of a poll, that perhaps the feeling around here was being inaccurately perceived by the volume of negative posts.

It's strange that that would be perceived as a call for sameness or intolerance.

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

42. Not strange at all. When people go through multiple traumas,

it might not be a bad idea to allow them their rebalancing.

There's way too much disrespect on this board and that won't be helpful in the long run. Because we need to pull together. And I don't in any way intend to single you out at all. Maybe a note to me and all.

[Der Blaue Engel]

43. I wasn't trying to be disrespectful to anyone

I'm sorry if it came across that way.

I'm only trying to point out the weird disparity between the number of people who seemed to think it was a positive, and the number of negative posts.

And that observation seemed necessary in case there were other people like me who are very easily discouraged by the loudest voices. Seriously, that is my only aim in putting this out here, because if I allow myself to forget what a wonderful thing happened yesterday, as I saw it, I will give up hope and I will give up fighting. Maybe other people won't, and that's great. But my response to trauma has always been to crawl under the bed and hide and hope I won't be noticed. I don't want to be anyone's victim anymore. I want to celebrate my victories against the bullies.

Thanks for clarifying your point. I hope this clarified mine a bit. :)

[EFerrari]

45. Sure did. Thank you. I think we're just tired campers. Cheers. n/t

[Democrat Dragon]

44. If we get too excited

we get more dispointed.

The DU 2004 Election Results and Discussion Forum han even have it's own daily mood report!

Todays forecast: Doom and gloom and more thunderstorms
Next weeks forecast: The average temperature will be between defeat and Ukraine-in-Ohio. More doom and gloom is expected.
Chance of Kerry being inagurated so far: 1 in 200 million.
Smoking Gun status: Being hidden by Blacksick.

[Machiavelli05]

46. Very good point!

Didnt realize that

Thought everyone here was just a whiney melodramatic conspiracy theorist. Good to hear your thoughts.

Also another thing I found last night was that other forums on this site are much less prone to this behavior. I was starting to think the entire site was like this.

The election is over - you can find me in other forums on DU.