Blackwell.... is he going to get away with all this?

[mousie]

The man is evil, he's behind so much of what happened in Ohio in "delivering" the vote to George Bush. Is he going to get away with it all, and continue in politics? What can we do?

[musette_sf]

1. investigate his every act and deed microscopically

and litigate, litigate, litigate.

[Mojambo]

2. See Harris, Katherine (2000) n/t

[sueh]

3. I'm no laywer, but

it seems to me if the lawsuit in Ohio, Moss v Bush (someone correct me if I'm referring to the wrong one) is allowed to proceed, it may end up getting Blackwell. The action we need is one that involves investigation and law enforcement so those who committed fraud get arrested, charged and tried, convicted, and sent to jail.

If congressional hearings take place, the best we can hope for is national election standards that Jesse Jackson Jr called for. National election standards with everyone voting on the same kind of machine with verifiable paper trail is something we really need. However, I'm not convinced congressional hearings will send Blackwell to jail.

[ConstitutionGuy]

27. Further Civil Action In State Court Foreclosed

By reasoning of Justice Breyer's dissent in Bush vs. Gore, I believe any further court actions that seek to undermine or question the prima facie legitimacy of the Ohio electors and their proper counting in the electoral college are now foreclosed:

"To the contrary, the Twelfth Amendment commits to Congress the authority and responsibility to count electoral votes. A federal statute, the Electoral Count Act, enacted after the close 1876 Hayes-Tilden Presidential election, specifies that, after States have tried to resolve disputes (through “judicial” or other means), Congress is the body primarily authorized to resolve remaining disputes. See Electoral Count Act of 1887, 24 Stat. 373, 3 U.S.C. § 5 6, and 15.

The legislative history of the Act makes clear its intent to commit the power to resolve such disputes to Congress, rather than the courts:

The two Houses are, by the Constitution, authorized to make the count of electoral votes. They can only count legal votes, and in doing so must determine, from the best evidence to be had, what are legal votes .... The power to determine rests with the two Houses, and there is no other constitutional tribunal."

What the above says to me is that Congress, not the courts are the final arbiter of what constitutions a "legal" electoral vote and once that determination is made, it is not subject to any further review.

Therefore if I were a Ohio judge and a case was before me claiming that the Ohio electoral votes were not legally certified and cast, I would be forced by the above reasoning to rule such a claim as moot. The case would be dismissed on the grounds that Congress had the opportunity to examine and evaluate the votes and has made its determination.

If evidence of criminal conduct by an individual were to be presented to a prosecutor, a case could probably be brought against that individual as a matter of routine criminal law, but I think any civil proceeding that seeks to extend the election "controversy" is going to be tossed at this point - Congress has spoken.

IMHO, this is where Boxer et al made a crucial strategic error. If the challenge had not been made in Congress, it might have been possible to find a court that would extend a civil "controversies" case on the grounds that the issues had not received a proper hearing. However, once the objection was offered and debated, the courts must take judicial notice of the fact that Congress didn't just accept the electoral votes as a matter of ceremony. Rather Congress received objections, passed judgement on those objections, and affirmatively rejected those objections to accept the electoral votes as legal and legitimate (including the vastly overwhelming majority of the party that offered the objection in the first place).

Keep an eye on the Ohio courts. I predict that any actions pending there will now be dismissed on the grounds that the issue has been rendered moot.

The only possible avenue of attack left is impeachment.

[troubleinwinter]

28. Ah, I have been looking for a likely place to ask questions...

Not about the votes, per se, but about what Conyers wrote in his report, mentioning that state and federal laws were likely violated.

Could Conyers call for a Special Prosecutor? What is the method of doing so? I know HE is the one that wrote to Ashcroft and got Fitzgerald onto the Plame case. Can it only be done through the USAG?

If so, would it necessarily have to be a violation of Federal Law... what if it is State law, but the state AG will not pursue it? Is there any recourse if all the State officials are rank-ass-filthy?

[euler]

32. Have you read Moss v Bush ?

It's a joke.

Do you know what fraud means ? You have to show disenfranchise was done intentionally for it to be fraud.

Blackwell did not decide where to allocate voting equipment, each county did.

Congressional hearings ? Never happen. Conyers can't call hearings. The best he can do is hold 'forums' that have no real standing. No action can be taken from a forum. No one can be forced even to show up to testify.

[stray cat]

4. I think so. He may even get a promotion.

[newscott]

9. That's how it's done. n/t

[MoonRiver]

5. Probably. Who's gonna stop him?

Congressional Dems all, save 32, ratified Ohio's vote yesterday. They gave Blackwell a unifed stamp of approval. That'll help the litigation efforts!
:wtf:

[marzipanni]

6. Mr. Blackwell to *

"Oh, my lord, you are the Best dressed man of 2004!"
MSM reports likewise.

[demo dutch]

7. That's up to the voters in Ohio, he's running for governor. Mind

you, if he loses, guaranteed that scrubs will take him on for something in the administration

[Botany]

10. Ohio voter here

Does it matter? I mean will the vote be honest?

[demo dutch]

11. We must keep on the policians to go forward with election

reform, otherwise this whole thing was indeed nothing but BS!

[4democracy]

17. I am not from Ohio, but I am willing to come and campaign against

Blackwell. I would like to start NOW discrediting him, by educating voters not on the internet. Flyers can be printed for pennies and spread widely by people handing them out at public places. Of course we also have to keep pressure on Congress for voter reform by 2006. The Republicans will drag their feet on hearings and then the bills,if we don't build a fire under them!

[mousie]

19. good point...

and good ideas... I hope we can somehow publicize the evil of this man, attack his lack of credibility!

[ailsagirl]

29. Lose?? He won't lose-- they've got fraud down to a fine art

[Imagevision]

8. I thought Arenbecks's case in court names him as a defendant!

[catgirl]

13. It does

and he's going to pay for everything he has done!

[euler]

33. It does.

But Arnebeck has to win the case first, and that's not going to happen. Have you read it ?

[RhodaGrits]

12. Yes.

[weeve]

14. Vote out the thugs !

Sec. of State is an elected office. Everyone needs to find out all they can about your individual Sec. of State , then make sure we elect good ones! Imagine what the world would look like now, if Blackwell and Kathryn Harris had NOT been in office during the last two Presidential Elections !? Imagine.

[weeve]

15. p.s.

I like your icon Mousie ... though I'd swear it was a RAT !

squeak squeak

[mousie]

16. LOL... yes...

a rat, but I figured close enough! =)

[formernaderite]

18. I have a question....

I understand that Blackwell certainly ramped up the base for Bush, but most election issues are created and handled on a county or precinct level. I live in a die hard blue county that is pretty wealthy,and until 2002 used punch card ballots. Some of the neighboring counties which are both blue and red and in some cases poorer, had already modernized their voting machines by 2000.
I understand that in Ohio cities controlled by democrats, more problems with managing the voting locations were occurring.

What are the county democratic leaders saying as to why they did not plan better for this past election? Waiting for more than 2 hrs to vote is truly unacceptable. Is Ohio law different, did Blackwell have control over the number of machines available at the county level?

[mousie]

21. what I've heard

is that it was a deliberate shortage of machines in specific dem/minority areas... and in FACT they had perfectly GOOD, WORKING MACHINES in storage at the time!! I may be wrong, but I think Hillary (or someone) mentioned that yesterday too... I just keep thinking HOW can this man get away with all this?! I hope there will be justice!

[formernaderite]

22. But aren't the counties responsible for the machines?

They are elsewhere, is Ohio an anomaly? I'm trying hard to understand how the state has a role in this. The problem with Ohio as with most states, is that each county decides what type of machine, and how many. The state generally has nothing to do with this. The counties even order the machines.

My wifes been hitting me over the head with this stuff. So I figured I'd ask here.
My problem is if the counties these occurred in were democratic, they were run by the democrats. Why didn't they have enough machines available? When are heads going to role? As much as I'd like to blame Blackwell for everything, I think we had better get some answers from the democrats in charge in Ohio.

[mousie]

24. true...

I don't have all the answers, but it seems to me that Blackwell was commander in charge of all the problems in Ohio in one way or another! I don't understand the bogus Homeland Security threat that happened either... have not heard more on that. Do they just let that go without explanation, without any charges against anyone??

Maybe you can post your questions as a new topic.... someone here must know!

[euler]

35. I don't think so. See post #34.

[euler]

34. You are correct.

Here is a NYT article. It talks about the dynamics of machine allocation in 3 Ohio counties. It's clear that the decisions are all made at the county level. In addition, it shows that where machines were misallocated, at least in these 3 counties, the cause was poor planning, not fraud.

Posts such as yours are refreshing. You don't simply accept what is taken in this forum as 'common knowledge.' That's a good thing since a lot of what is taken as 'common knowledge' in this forum is simply false.

*****************************************************************

December 24, 2004 New York Times. Front page below the fold. The story title is "Voting Problems in Ohio Spur Call for Overhaul " written by JAMES DAO, FORD FESSENDEN AND TOM ZELLER JR.; JAMES DAO REPORTED FROM COLUMBUS FOR THIS ARTICLE, FORD FESSENDEN FROM NEW YORK AND TOM ZELLER JR. FROM CLEVELAND

I could give the link, but you have to pay for $2.95 to read it so I won't bother. Anyone can find and pay for it using the information provided above. Here are the relavent portions:

snip

In Columbus, Franklin County election officials reduced the number of electronic voting machines assigned to downtown precincts and added them in the suburbs. They used a formula based not on the number of registered voters, but on past turnout in each precinct and on the number of so-called active voters -- a smaller universe. By contrast, the state's most populous county, Cuyahoga, allocated machines based on the total number of voters, a move that the county's election director, Michael Vu, said helped stave off even bigger lines.

In the Columbus area, the result was that suburban precincts that supported Mr. Bush tended to have more machines per registered voter than center-city precincts that supported Mr. Kerry -- 4.6 machines per 1,000 voters in Mr. Bush's 50 strongest precincts, compared with 3.9 in Mr. Kerry's 50 best. Mr. McQuoid's precinct, a Kerry stronghold, lost one of the four machines it had in 2000, despite an increase in registration.

Matthew Damschroder, a Republican who is the director of elections in Franklin County, said the urban precincts lost machines because many of their voters had not voted recently and because those precincts historically had had low turnout. Indeed, election results show that a much higher suburban turnout on Nov. 2 meant that machines in Bush areas were more heavily used on average, although whether that was because their voters were less easily discouraged by long lines or simply more efficient in voting is unclear.

snip

[formernaderite]

40. What I'd really like to know is who are the bufoons responsible for this?

The election officials are usually up for a vote, and we need to take names and keep reposting them to remind people to vote them out. I couldn't care less if they're democrats. NO ONE SHOULD EVER have to wait more than two hours to vote. Hopefully Ohio comes to it's sense and DOES NOT vote Blackwell for Governor.

I hate the way all of politics is so incestuous. First Harris, and now Blackwell, both also head of *'s election teams in those states. This practice has got to stop, regardless of the political party.

[GreenPartyVoter]

20. Katherine Harris sure did

------------------------------------------------------------
Help save our country one town, county, and state at a time!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm#why

[mod mom]

23. Blackwell Lecture "Ethics in Leadership" I kid you not!

UA Chamber of Commerce presents:

"Ethics in Leadership"
by Kenneth Balckwell, Ohio SOS, + Co-Chair Bush/Cheney '04
Weds Jan 12
11:30-1pm
Scioto Country Club
$ 30 non members
614/481-5710

[mousie]

25. OMG... make me vomit!!!

There ARE no bigger hypocrites!!!

[ailsagirl]

30. What a joke!!! Is he missing some marbles?? ETHICS???

[Carolab]

26. Only if he rigs his own election.

I imagine the people of Ohio won't easily forget, just as the voters in Florida didn't forget about Katherine Harris. Do you think her election was won fair and square?

[Bill MI]

31. Don't get mad, get LOUD!!!

We need to flood the Judiciary Repuglicans with e-mails, letters, and phone calls in order to get them to understand how important this is. They MUST hold FULL investigations with subpeona powers.

<http://judiciary.house.gov/contact.aspx>

The idiots have megaphones, but we have numbers!

The Senate Democrats were cowed, this time by their constituents, into doing what they should have done in 2000. We can't stop now. The Fight has only begun!

[Amigust]

36. Bush and the Pugs reward those who serve well. n/t

[Blue_In_AK]

37. Put him under the same microscope

that Bill Clinton was under for eight years.

[kitkat65]

38. Okay, so if the misallocation of voting machines was made at the county

level I think it's fair to demand that these people state exactly how and why those decisions were made. At the very least, we should ask for their resignations for such grand incompetence. Pathetic.

I think if you start at the very bottom with the directors and deputy directors, bipartisan or not, calling them on this could potentially lead to the bigger fish.

[proud_Kucitizen]

39. agreed

My husband and I were discussing the same thing this evening. Get rid of the incompetents and replace them.

[Fescue4u]

41. Yes. And he'll proably be Ohios next Govenor

I wish I had the link. But anyway I read an article the other day that said that all shenigans going on in Ohio have given Blackwell extradinary name recognition.

He's now the front contended for the Ohio Governship

:(