I dont care if Kerry is with Carter to oversee the Palestine election...

[KerryReallyWon]

He needs to get his ass home, and straighten out his own election! Because he was not here on the 6th, no coverage of the objection and all those people were there, to help those who could not vote! Why DOES JOHN KERRY NOT CARE ABOUT ELECTIONS IN THE USA!!!!


john kerry come home!!! now!

[MoonRiver]

1. He doesn't care. He'll come home at his convenience not ours.

This is all very sad but true. He's a traitor to those who voted for him and I, for one, will never forgive him.

[merh]

14. Read post 11. n/t

[MoonRiver]

16. I did. Read my response #15.

[candice]

48. WHO WANTED THE KERRY BIOGRAPHY?

John F. Kerry, The Complete Biogrfaphy by the boston Globe Reporters who Know Him Best?

Someone mentioned that they were about to buy this, but didn't. Mentioned it costs $15.00.

I'll send my copy to whoever this person was (media mail).

[Retired AF Dem]

2. He has a bad habit of not showing up for work

why change now?

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flyarm]

3. he doesn't seem to care!!

if that is true and kerry is overseeing palastines election, then i say he is complicit in the fraud of an election we had here...if he cared so little to stand up for those who were disenfranchised here, and for those who stood for up to 10 hours in the rain and cold..and in fla in the heat.. , but he sees fit to oversee palastines election..then we know where his true colors lie...and it sure isnt here!!

or for americans ..or our now one party fascist state!!

reform you say??? how?? with what , our minority party?? with no balance in our government?
with the thugs who have now gotten away with the teft of elections 3 times??

yeah reform..sure..whatever...

fly

[catgirl]

30. Perhaps he wants to make sure Bush doesn't have a hand

in stealing this election too. These "Kerry doesn't care about
our elections" posts are getting really old. We can't rely on one
person to fight the repugs. They are the perpetrators here,
not Kerry. Open your eyes.

Edited because of momentaey dyslexia.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

59. I consider it very disruptive of you to try to stop the flow of free

speech here.

Am I supposed to be a sycophant and lie about my feelings for Kerry? I didn't support Kerry until he got the nomination, and was not thrilled with him. I am less thrilled with him now. If you can't deal with it, that's your problem.

[KittyWampus]

60. Yes, I Have The Magical Ability To Stop The Free Flow Of Speech Here

and I'm going to use it NOW!

Is it working?

How about NOW?

:D

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

67. With intimidation, making anyone suspect who doesn't kiss Kerry's

ass. Read your post again.

[Wilms]

4. This must be the 'we don't get it thread." n/t

[LandOLincoln]

5. Yes, definitely, and it's getting damned old. n/t

[Wilms]

7. Worse is how many times it has been explained...

And how many good posters don't want to be here because of threads like this. And how many threads like this make it hard to find threads where WORK is actually being done.

[LandOLincoln]

28. Worse yet is the delight and entertainment they're

providing to the Freepers.

It's getting harder and harder all the time to distinguish the far Right from the far Left. A pox on both their houses, sez I!

[comradebillyboy]

6. kerry's position on the i-p conflict

is about the same as bush, ie unquestioning support of god's chosen people.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

8. I agree with you. There are all of these people that counted on him

to come through as a knight in shining armor after he conceded. We received words from him that sent mixed messages which were confusing. Then this well timed trip to the ME, getting his ass out of town, just when we needed him the most.

He's the kind of boyfriend that you have to dump because by his actions "He's Really Not Into You"!!!

By the way, welcome to DU!!!!
:hi:

[flyarm]

9. ohh i get it..it get it real well!!

i was a kerry delegate..i get it big time, i was also a super volunteer who housed the kerry field rep for one of kerrys biggest offices here in fla..i get it real well!!

and i got my christmas card from kerry the day of the challange from the friends of kerry..with no post mark...and i was a huge donator..i get it more than you can believe!! i was a poll watcher at large ..to make sure there was no fraud and i was a tester in december for the machines that ate our votes..i sure do get it...i get it big time!! i worked tirelessly for over a yr for kerry..i sure do get it...and i was a volunteer speaker for kerry in an area that had hardly any support for kerry before the primaries..there were very few of us then...i sure do get it!!

fly

[merh]

12. Read post 11. n/t

[KerryReallyWon]

13. Thanks for the welcome...

While I get slammed by the others....none would be happier than me, to see all this come to a great big head. I wonder if the bushies promised he could have it with hillary. they will fix it for him next time. :nuke:

[flyarm]

22. yes...

welcome to du..!! glad you are aboard!!

:bounce: :party: :hi:

[merh]

19. Read post 11.

I will add to those thoughts the obvious, which apparently is so obvious, people miss it or ignore it.

Kerry's decision not to be in congress on the 6th was wise. His absence allowed the focus of the debates to be on election reform and not on him, the sore loser. Our senators and representatives were able to stand up and be heard on all of the questionable election processes and irregularities without having to sound like whiny babies, upset that our candidate didn't win.

Until the investigation into the multitude of election irregularities and apparent election fraud has been completed, there is no "hard" evidence to prove fraud. Until the voting equipment is inspected, our assumptions that the equipment was rigged to give the weed the votes are just that, assumptions. Without hard evidence all we are left with are our theories and theories alone make it easy to pigeon hole us as "conspiracy theorists" and kooks.

Another point folks tend to miss about Kerry's absence from the 109th Congress is a big one in my opinion. His absence reflects that he will not be a sheep to the administration and the repug leadership. He has acted on his own, he has gone on fact finding missions, that were not arranged by the administration, to find out for himself how things really are in the Middle East. He did not sit and wait for the repug leadership in congress to give him a committee job and to tell them what their agenda and plans are for this year. He is making his own agenda, he is getting the information for himself, he is being his own man and he is being a leader, not taking direction from the dem leadership or the repug leadership in congress.

I, personally, like the way the man thinks and how he is acting.

[Blue_In_AK]

21. Hear, hear, Merh! n/t

[bunny planet]

61. I do too Merh. Thanks for the post.

[Paintedlady]

81. I agree!

Great post.
I don't care what anybody hollers and whines about. I know John Kerry will not be the president this time, I also know he would have been a great one. I have faith in John Kerry, and know that there will be great things accomplished by him in the future. If he runs in 2008 he has my vote.

I have a feeling that bush is not happy about Kerry talking to "his" soldiers and leaders of other countries, and I'm sure he is nervously wondering why. If anybody can start the fall of the evil empire, It's John Kerry.

[Angelique]

98. I'll only vote again for Kerry if he is our only choice..

the same reason I did this time.. I was/am a Dean supporter, and can't get over the way the Clinton's, DLC and Kerry, sneaked and destroyed his candidacy.. Well, I guess, time has proven who in fact was right..

I know I have to watch what I say because I don't have 1000000 posts to prove my loyality to anyone that our own morons pick for us..

I'll just say that I never had much trust in Kerry as the best pick.

[Wilms]

37. Knights in shining armor exist only in childrens stories. n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

58. Then you weren't here reading how people were waiting for

Kerry to come to the rescue with a secret plan. That he was playing a strategic game and was waiting for the right moment.

[Wilms]

65. OSO, it's much more than Kerry.

Were you able to see what happened in Congress last week? Then there's the lawsuits which are ongoing.

Get some popcorn, and pull up a chair. This thing is just starting. :)

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

68. We also have a government, including an FBI that is owned lock, stock

and barrel by the Bush Cartel, and a media that is not reporting any of this. I might be able to know to pull up a chair, but how about someone who isn't politically attuned to what is going on? They don't have a single clue. Yet Amber Frye was heard front and center.......

[Wilms]

72. CSPAN, the web...

I'm not saying this is great, but we've done a lot and continue to. And there is the legal system. That's how this is playing out.

MSM will catch up when * is arrested.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

96. Legal proceedings will have to be initiated in a "blue" state, and

then maybe we'll have justice.

The day that ** gets arrested will probably be one the happiest day in my life! :)

[candice]

10. He did have Reid post his comments on the 2004 election

in the Congressional Record, and says that election reform will be "one of his top priorities"--AND is going to base his legislation on the results of the Conyers investigation in Ohio and continuing investigation in other states. If there is a smoking gun, the odor of gunpowder will be whiffing through the Senate and House chambers during the Bush administration. Otherwise, sit tight and counter what is most immediate. The fact that 20 percent of voters question this election should be enough for the Repugs to jump on board with election reform. This is the second questionable election for Bush.

[merh]

11. Hey, did you ever stop to think that maybe Kerry's involvement

and cooperation with Carter in overseeing the Palestine elections is so that he can have a better perspective as to how legal elections are supposed to be run???

On October 29, Carter stated his position regarding the independent monitoring of USofA elections during an interview with Terry Gross on Fresh Air. He said then that his organization (the Carter Center) could not monitor the US elections because there are five (5) criteria a nation must meet in order to ensure fair elections and the USofA has MEET NONE OF THE CRITERIA. It would appear that Indonesia's elections have way more integrity than ours. You may want to check the archived interview on the Fresh Air website (accessible from npr.org I think.)

Now, why is it essential for Kerry to be helping Carter? What impact might that have on our election process? Well, maybe, just maybe, he can see what it takes to run elections properly. His monitoring of the Palestine election process can give him a better understanding as to what is needed to fix ours so that the five (5) criteria is meet.

Open up your mind, consider the bigger picture. The Carter Center has a reputation in the international community for ensuring that elections are fair and honest. What better way for Kerry to know what needs to be fixed at home than to see how the monitoring of elections is done in order to ensure that the election if fair?

[MoonRiver]

15. Maybe the time to do this would have been long BEFORE

the Pukes stole another one! I remember the CBC stating almost immediately after Selection 2000 that computerized voting represented a greater threat to electoral integrity than anything else. WHY didn't Kerry get on this issue from the get go? He could have filed lawsuits long before the election to get rid of these machines. As a Senator he could also have introduced legislation in Congress to block them. But instead, he did NOTHING. It's a little late now to be taking remedial courses on how to run fair elections! :eyes:

[merh]

24. Just like many here did nothing. How many here continued their

activism, the way folks in the 2004 ER&D forum were active from Nov. 3 to Jan 6? How many of the "elders" here, who knew what happened in 2000, continued the efforts locally and on a state level? How many were elected to their BOEs or Election Commissions? How many ran for or campaigned for the Secretary of States in their states?

No one, no one had any idea that the repugs would use so many multifaceted methods to steal votes and to disenfranchise the voters. That is why their election fraud enterprise was so successful. They used a multitude of methods to pad the weed's votes, so many methods that it is hard to track them all and to list them gives the appearance that we are "conspiracy theorists".

I have said it before and I will say it again. The election was not Kerry's or the weed's, it was ours. We elect someone to hold the office for 4 years, we are not giving them the office, we are allowing them the opportunity to serve us in our office. To think otherwise is to think in the same manner as the weed thinks, he thinks he owns it and doesn't owe us anything. How many of us were complaisant in the theft because we did not pay attention to the campaigns of our state officials, because we did not pay attention to the elections for BOE or Election Commission? How many of us have been ignored the voting systems used in our states?

We are just as responsible for this election as is our candidate and the DNC. To sit around and whine and whimper and point fingers of blames is ridiculous and defeatist. Appreciate what was accomplished, not just on Jan. 6, but on Nov. 2. Kerry won, they stole it and now we must prove the theft with hard evidence and we must work hard for a constitutional amendment giving every citizen the right to vote and election reform law that will ensure that our votes count and are legally counted for the candidate of our choosing.

[anamandujano]

53. Since it was our responsibility to make sure the elections were

clean, get all the laws passed to insure it, get the best local candidates in, and all the rest, it's way too bad that we don't have the power to bring bills to the floor of the house and senate, to raise the kind of money they did to coordinate the recounct, to make sure Kerry listened to all our campaign advice, and all the rest of the stuff that WE HAVE NO POWER TO DO. Don't even get me started on trumpeting the propaganda throughout the lands by the nazi press.

You've got to be kidding. Some people have families and jobs and still gave a lot of time to the so called leaders. The leaders let us down, they were playing to a differend end than we were.

The powers of rationalization in this way of thinking are truly awe inspiring.

[merh]

54. If you can't be part of the solution, then you accept the role as

part of the problem. Attitudes like yours are why we are in the sitution we are in. We have allowed this, we give excuses as to why we can't be involved in our government. You like being a defeatist, then go enjoy your anger.

Hey, guess what, he didn't need our advice, he won!

[anamandujano]

56. I'll be interested in your rationalizations when we start getting the

votes in the Senate and Kerry always votes to let Bush have more money for another war, all his candidates for the Supreme Court, etc. Or, will he be absent for every vote and off doing his 2008 campaigning?

It's really wonderful to know that I have more power in this whole ridiculous scenario than John Kerry, former candidate for US President, long time US Senator and multi-millionaire.

Actually, I kind of like it.

[bunny planet]

63. There were attempts to get bills to the floors of the Senate and the House

The Republicans blocked every one of them. Rep. Robert Wexler of Florida tried for two years to get paperless voting machines in his state declared illegal. He was blocked at every turn right up until 2 weeks before the election when the Florida Supreme court shot him down. People have been trying, without the media covering it, it's been very difficult. We have to change that, if the media continues to be irrelevant and biased, we get the story out there ourselves. I say the next move is a letter writing, calling campaign to every Secretary of State in the country demanding verifiable voting and demanding machines with paper trails.

[anamandujano]

76. We need something different than what we have now,

different strategies, different "leaders", whatever.

I'm fairly lost at this point about what to do. I do know that continuing to praise Kerry and count on him is a dead end.

[merh]

112. Continuing to slam him is a waste of energy.

So why do you continue?

[anamandujano]

118. You keep praising him

for nothing.

I'm not slamming him. Since he has put himself forward as a candidate for Leader of the Free World, it is not too much to expect a little leadership from him.

[merh]

131. He cannot lead us beyond his position. He is a senator, they

stole the election from us. Your expectations are far too high and are not realistic at all, imho.

[Amaryllis]

86. You are right! See post 85. The theft of this election was predicted .

[Amaryllis]

85. I respectfully completely disagree with you on this statement:

"No one, no one had any idea that the repugs would use so many multifaceted methods to steal votes and to disenfranchise the voters. That is why their election fraud enterprise was so successful. They used a multitude of methods to pad the weed's votes, so many methods that it is hard to track them all and to list them gives the appearance that we are "conspiracy theorists"."

LOTS of us knew and were fighting like crazy long before this election. The voting rights websites in the months preceeding the election were FILLED with the all the stuff Blackwell was doing, and same thing in Florida, and other states. Jeb did EVERYTHING in 2004 that he did in 2000 only more of it, and it was ALL OVER these websites and many were tracking all this and doing all they could to stop it. I remember reading on one of those sites a statement by a woman in FL working on all this, saying that Bush would win FL again but it would not be an honest election. Lists of reports of litigation against Blackwell and Jeb and Glenda Hood...and lots of people fighting them, and screaming to try to call attention to it. Machines, purging registered voters list, changing polling places, it goes on and on and on. Most of what you saw happen Nov. 2 was evident before the election. The theft of this election was completely predictable.

Nothing in MSM about any of this. An occasional small report in a local paper. MoveOn got involved when Blackwell was going to throw out all the registrations because of the paper weight issue. But this one only ONE SMALL thing out of many.

See these two articles which I read last summer that lay out a lot of it: How They Could Steal the Election This Time by Ronnie Dugger, where he discusses all the voting machine companies.
http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20040816&s=dugger

And this:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/dec2003/vote-d24.shtml

US voting machines: Will 2004 elections be electronically rigged?
By Alex Lefebvre
24 December 2003

[merh]

101. You mean you KNEW and you didn't stop it?

How could you let us down?

[Amaryllis]

103. LOTS of people knew and worked their butts off to try to stop it. Did you

even read what I wrote? And the links to the articles which in essence predicted it? You said "no one had any idea that the repugs would use so many multifaceted methods to steal votes and to disenfranchise the voters" and that is simply not true. This election is doubly distressing to the many who worked for months, and in many cases years, prior to the election to try to bring about change and saw their efforts continue to be thwarted, who saw Blackwell and Jeb and Glenda Hood continue to engage in obvious tactics to steal another one, and who knew it was going to happen again in spite of their best efforts bring to light what was happening and to prevent it.

[merh]

105. Yes, I read your post.

My point is very simple, hundreds and thousands of folks worked to stop it and failed, what do you think Kerry could have done to stop it?

[Amaryllis]

113. Okay, I see your point. But you said no one knew the extent of what

they would do to win the election, and that is what I was disagreeing with.
I get very discouraged...with so many working on it before,during and after, and the congress we have now... is there hope?

[merh]

115. Yes there is hope, there is always hope!

Please do not ever let them take hope from you!

We have to work together, not play their game of attack and destroy our own. Mistakes were made, but we are human and we have a tendacy to make mistakes, so we may want to realize they were mistakes, learn from them and move on and keep up the fight.

We must appreciate our accoomplishments. We have to appreciate our strenghths and our the strengths of our leaders. Don't be rove'd, don't fall for the game of attacking our own.

Hold you held high, we did tremendous and actually won, we just are not as criminal minded as the thieves that stole it. I, personally, am proud to say my mind is not as criminal as theirs.

Never Give Up and don't let them make you feel ashamed of your efforts or your candidate. They are the bad guys and they should be ashamed of their prick, oppps, I mean pick!

[Amaryllis]

117. Most of the time I opf for hope, but sometimes I need someone to say

YES! There is alwasys hope. that was one of my favorite parts in the extended version of The Two Towers, where that boy says to Aragorn, "The men are saying there is no hope. They say we will not live out the night." And Aragorn says, "THere is always hope."
I know it's only a movie, but it always comforts me when I start to get really discouraged.
In my city a number of groups and people working on this have fourd each other and formed a coalition. THis is very good.

[merh]

121. I am glad you have found a coalition in your area. Working with

them will give you strength and comfort. When you are down, watch the Twin Towers again -- for there is always hope!

Peace and NEVER GIVE UP!

[Amaryllis]

122. I think you mean the Two Towers, not the twin towers!

[merh]

130. My apologies. It was late last night when I typed that.

What an awful mistake. I wish I could edit it. Sorry.

[Amaryllis]

132. It's fine. I knew it was just a slip. We all make 'em and I know from your

posts that you are a good hearted person.

[merh]

133. Thank you, it was such a lousy slip up.

I appreciate your understanding and your kind words. :-)

[Amaryllis]

134. You're welcome. Don't beat yourself up over it.

[anamandujano]

119. Add to that, we emailed and faxed them tons of information

They apparently were not interested or did not have the time.

Conyers and Jackson et al took the time to educate themselves. The Kerry people have no excuse.

[flyarm]

120. YOU ARE CORRECT AMARYLLIS!

SINCE A YEAR AGO NOVENBER I WAS OUT SPEAKING ABOUT THE MACHINES AND THE POSSIBILITY OF MORE CORRUPTION THAN 2000 HERE IN FLORIDA..I WAS SPEAKING AT THE DEC MEETINGS, ALL THE DEM CLUBS, A UNION MEETING, AT LUNCHEONS, I MADE COPIES OF ALL THE BLACK BOX VOTING MATERIALS AND ANY MATERIALS I COULD GET MY HANDS ON AND I WAS DISCUSSING IT PUBLICALLY..I WAS MAKING HUNDREDS OF COPIES OF DETAILS OF HOW THE MACHINES COULD BE HACKED AND HOW OPTICAL SCAN COULD BE HACKED..ALL AT MY OWN EXPENSE..WHEN I WOULD SPEAK IT WOULD SHOCK MANY ..AND IT WOULD OPEN DIALOG AND PEOPLE WERE ANGRY..i went to every candidates meet ups to speak of the problem with all these machines and built a network of names i would send info to on a daily basis so those people could pass the word..
I TOOK MY CONCERNS TO THE FLORIDA JEFFERSON JACKSON WEEK END, AND AS AN ELECTED DELEGATE I BROUGHT IT UP AT a huge DELEGATE MEETING IN TALLAHASSEE IN THE SPRING, BUT THE FRUSTRATION I FELT WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY THAT THEY REFUSED TO MAKE THIS A FRONT PAGE STORY NOW MAKES ME UPSET. EVERY TOP OFFICIAL I SPOKE TO IN THE DEM PARTY HAD THE SAME TALKING POINT...WE HAVE BILLS THAT WE WILL GET PASSED BY 2006..RUSH HOLTS BILL OR THE BILL BY HILLARY AND GRAHAM..OR THE OTHER LINE I WAS TOLD WAS, ..WELL WE NEED TO REGISTER MORE PEOPLE THAN THE REPUBS AND HAVE MORE VOTERS THAN THE REPUBS...

MANY OF US HERE IN FLA WERE VERY CONCERNED...
(opps just realized i had caps on ..sorry!)

we asked ..should we just register people to do absentee ballots?? we got nothing positive nor affirmative from the democratic party..we could get no direction..none....so we took it upon ourselves to register as many as possible for absentee ballots...
there were many of us organizing volunbteers to register as many as possible for absentee ballots...it was all grass root with almost no input by the local or national dnc..it was we the people doing it on our own..
my car was an absentee ballot mobile! i never went anywhere without handing out the applications ..
from early spring until move on and the kerry campaign and act
came in here in the late summer..
i am very proud of "we the people" i am proud of so many who walked the walk on weekends in the heat of the summer here in fla..and in late summer when so many were affected by the hurricanes and still all our volunteers came out in huge numbers to not just gotv but also to register people for absentee ballots and to educate so many into using the absentee ballots so they would have paper trails,,


this story was a big story but was not deciminated by the dem party to the masses..
and there were many many of us begging the dem party to address it nationally and publically ..
we begged for it to be brought up by dem people on meet the press and to use as many vehicles as possible to get this info out to the masses..but it was never addressed to the majority of americans..had it been there may have been a movement by huge numbers of americans and forced the repugs hands in congress who would not let the bills even come to the floor for consideration!

fly

[Amaryllis]

123. This is exactly the kind of thing I was reading on all the voter's rights

sites. I live in OR and we have mostly clean elections because we have a great SOS but I was doing all I could to get the word out about the Holt and Graham-Clinton bills and trying to get people to bug their congress people about it, and educate people as well as I could. Hard to know what to do living in a state without E-voting, other than bug our congress people to support those bills and try to educate them, and educate others.

Worked my butt off for Kerry, all the while wondering if we had a chance, and wondering if he knew. Wrote ACT, MoveOn, the DNC, over and over. Finally MoveOn came out with that petition to require paper trails and I wrote back a bunch more times and screamed at them some more about
IT'S THE TABULATORS, STUPID! You guys are supposed to be so technologically savvy...READ THIS STUFF and I sent links...but they remained silent. I still don't think they get it.

Went to hear the vice pres debate at a meeting place becasue Andre Heinz was going to be there and I wanted to ask him what he knew about machines and if they were prepared. He was mobbed by people wanting his autograph and to get their pix taken and I am standing there saying WHAT ABOUT THE VOTING MACHINES? Do you know about the machines? What are you doing? And he said "there's exit polls." And I thought OMG I sure hope Kerry has more of a clue than he does.

Then election night I was sitting there watching things shift and saying "They did it again, it's the machines, I knew they were going to do it. " And my friends mostly were looking at me kinda weird. Not any more, though. Now they believe it.

[Niche]

50. didn't get anywhere 'cause Frist and Hastert threw it OUT.

[Wilms]

18. Good one MERH.

Problem is, when you see a thread at DU start with something like "I dont care if", you're usually talking to a wall.


"Even those tears, I me mine, I me mine, I me mine." - George Harrison

[merh]

40. You are probably right, but then again, certain walls are

worth talking to. Maybe they will get mad and do something stupid like attacking me. Or, maybe they will just leave when they realize that their logic is their's alone. Some walls don't like rational thought, they are only posting to discourage.

[Wilms]

42. And to be fair...

some are posting 'cause THEY are discouraged and need some comfort which is understandable.

I can't offer it because they often want to know if Jan 6th or Jan 20th or when this or that hits the press, etc.

As some of us realize, that ain't the way it works.

[merh]

44. You are right, but some are the same naysayers that start up

this stuff to suck in the discouraged in the hopes of confirming and capitalizing on the discouragement.

I hope the discouraged get some rest and just realize it ain't gonna happen overnight and we just have to work around the media, make them insignificant.

[Wilms]

47. Actually, I'm not worried about the MSM.

They should stay out of it until all the ducks are in a row.

(Nevertheless, would can still blast them.) :)

[flyarm]

20. theu extended the elcetion hours in palestine

by two hours because not many were showing up to vote...
and who will sign onto reform?? delay?? that is if the repubs even bring it up on the floor they refused to before the 2004 election..so what has changed now?? more than 20% in this country thought the 2000 elections were wrong..did anything change other than make it maybe worse or give the repugs more time to fix the election better with less oversight and less flaws?? did grahams or rush holts bill ever get to the floor of congress ..no!

so what will make it happen now?? now thart msm wont even mention it days after a challange..well we all talked about fla 2000..but now 4 days after a challange not even meet the press mentions it?? do you talk to others out side this forum?? well i sure do..talked to a few ohio people last week they didnt even know there was a problem...why ..the media didnt tell them about it!! i have two homes one in fla and one in nj..none of my n.j. friends had any clue there was a problem with this election...not one of them..and they didnt believe me because it wasn't on msm...

the kerry field rep who lived with me calls me for info on whats going on..he live in ny..he hears nothing...
sure the people here and some on the internet know..but does main stream americans know about all the fraud or problems..no...no they dont...
my friends up north think i am a conspiracy nut when i tell them this stuff...why you ask ..because they dont hear it reported on tv...but they sure know jennifer and brad are separating!!

if i sound frustrated it is because i am...and angry..and how would that have been made different..if kerry had stood up and said there are deiscrepancies that must be addressed..that must be addressed before we move on to inaugerating another president and worry about the legitimacy of our election process...he then could have bailed out..but it would have gotten enough msm to open american eyes and would have forced the msm to cover this stuff...to force legitimate reforms...now what is going to force delay to give a rats crap???

nothing...

fly

[merh]

29. Instead of complaining about it and bitching about Kerry,

what are you doing? It's your government too.

[flyarm]

127. yes you are correct!

1. ran an election and was elected delegate to the democratic national convention
2. was one of only a few to run kerry campaign in my area for almost a year prior to kerry sending field rep to our area
3.housed kerry field rep to 3 counties here
4. was a volunteer speaker for the kerry campaign in my county and would drive to several other counties to speak for the kerry campaign
5.my kitchen was the kerry campaign for months with the kerry field rep and many volunteers until an office was opened
6.for over a year i was out speaking about voting machines and the most likely fraud we are faced with today.
7.voting member of my counties dec
8.member of 3 democratic clubs in my area and work fund raising..one being the oldest democratic womens club in the usa
9.member of emilys list
10.member of move on and worked diligently with move on when id did not interfere with my work in kerry campaign
11. super volunteer for kerry campaign
12.run a volunteer list of communications for my county and two other counties in my area of florida
13.was volunbteer co ordiner for the kerry campaign in my area..getting volunteers to work in office, kerry rallys, data base work , gotv work , absentee ballot data base work,and any other work we needed volunteers for
14. was in charge of many of volunteers for every rally kerry and edwards came here for..coordinated and made sure they were cleared by secret service and trained then in their duties..and made sure all events went smoothly
15.when our field rep..the one who lived with me ..when his mom was dying 3 weeks before election i was overseeing the huge kerry office with another man to make sure all the paid workers were doing their jobs and was keeping all volunteers working and running the office as smoothly as possible..and making sure data bases were secure..and huge paid gotv people were doing their jobs and getting the volunteers coordinated..basically running the operation ..
16.worked on several of our local cadidates elections.and went out and spoke for them at events.
17.just campaigned for a new dec chair we got elected...a good one for a change!
18.work with sec chair helping her do her massive job..help her by doing some speaking engagements for her..
19.have worked for 3 years with 9/11 families getting inside airline info for them and getting people with expertise to help them with info and advise..( i just retired 33 yrs with one of the airlines involved in 9/11.much of this work has had to be done in secret!)
20.was one of 15 ppl invited to do a round table with a 9/11 commissioner at univ of tampa for the kerry campaign
21. did speaking engagement with max cleland about 9/11 and the fraud perpetrated on americans ..and the lies that have been told and propagated by the *admin..,.for the kerry campaign
22.did speaking talk about vets and abuses and lies by swift boat liars and mailing faxing calling campaign at a democratic club with cam kerry
23.feed the volunteers at kerry headquarters here almost daily at a cost to me of approx $200.00 a day for over a month
24.fought for a poll watching campaign here since the march primary and was one of 12 first poll watchers in our county for primary aug 31st and poll watcher at large for early vote for 2 weeks and general election..for early vote i worked 7 am until approx 7pm and many times longer depending on lines each day
25 worked registeration of voters march through june until i had no more available time as delegate duties and speaking engagements did not allow the time
26.gave numerous campaign parties for contributions to the kerry campaign
27 bought all the huge signs for kerry campaign for our dnc building and $8,000.00 of buttons t shirts and kerry paraphanalia from the time kerry won primary as out dnc didnt have the money so i donated it all so people could start the campaign for presidency..long before kerry campaign ever sent one thing to our area.
28.was a chair of a kerry meet up group, but went and spoke to many meet up groups as their delegate.
29 had delegate meet up to let people tell me their concerns so i could take them to boston with me
30 ran all vip sections for all kerry rallys and edwards rallys in our area, and worked in another county when they needed help when kerry came into town in their area/and did all the communications most times all night prior to their arrival as we always got last minute notice of them coming for security reasons. that was comminications for volunteers and to notify people to come to the rally as the audiences!
31 as a delegate at the convention i hired a limo for 4 days so i could attend at least 4-5 caucuses a day so i would represent the dems in my community and get as much info as i could to help our area for election and so our area was well represented.
32. i write a by weekly newspaper article representing the democratic voice in a he said /she said format in a local news periodical

33 i was called by our sec chair in december to work a testing of our sequoia machines done by an independant group / it was a testing as if it was a full day of voters voting.
34. in dec i acted as if i was a memvber of media and infiltrated a soe media news conference into the firing and replacement of election office holders and workers and retrieved a book given to media on new soe rules and changes for our local dec. i asked pertainant qyestions about our elections with the media all there..to the surprise of the soe.
i contributed alot of money to the kerry campaign and the gelac fund.

i have many people asking me to run for office in the future , but since i just retired after a 33yr carreer, i choose not to at this time since i have not had a days rest since i retired to actually know and enjoy the fact that i am retired!

any questions about what i am and have done?

[flyarm]

oh ...

and i must thank my wonderful husband who is in no way political, who supported me when i ran for election as delegate, who contributed unendlessly with his checkbook, who put up with my absences, and who shared his home with the kerry field rep for 7 months ..who is now like our son..and i thank him for driving all the seniors who needed rides to the polls as my husband drove many seniors who were unable to drive or who were handicapped, my husband was kind and caring to all he helped get to the voting booths. he put up with alot for this past year! not for me but for his country.
fly

[flyarm]

129. oh ...

and mostly i have to thank each and every person who worked so hard for their nation , for the love of their country, the many numbers of wonderful citizens who came to our state of florida giving endless hours of their time , and hard work , and tears , and exhaustion, and diligence , and love and kindness, their smiles, and laughter, and their wonderful "phone voices" and their typing skills, and filing skills...and i want to especially thank a lovely lady 85 yrs old who came down from vermont, to help us here in florda...she gave of her heart and her stories of presidents past, she folded brochures that were handed out in early voting and general election, she was sooooo sweet, and such a wonderful patriot..i will never forget you dear heart...you showed me what an american is..what a true love of your country you taught all the young uns among us...you are an american treasure!!
and my heart does treasure you and all those who stopped your life and came and worked for our democracy..for your love of this great country of ours!!
you are the reason i will never stop my fight no matter how frustrated i may get at times!!
and to my lost co-workers i will keep your voice alive as best i can!! with all i can!!
fly

[seriousstan]

23. That must be the replacement excuse now that the "chess move"

and "secret working behind the scene" excuse have proved to be false.

Kerry supports Kerry! It is that simple.

"have a better perspective as to how legal elections are supposed to be run" ??????? How stupid is this man?????? I thought he was highly educated, but now you are telling me he has no insight whatsoever.

I will believe he is self-absorbed and interested in his own political career before I believe he is a simpleton.

[Wilms]

26. Proved false to everyone who thought Jan 6th was the day...

Kerry would be elected.

(A few) others saw it as a step on the way to dealing with *Co.

Did you here the Dems speeches? Do you realize what was entered in the Congressional Record? It's significance? Do you get that this is ongoing and Kerry's being present WOULD HAVE TAKEN AWAY from the effort?

[merh]

27. Go back and reread the post, maybe in your rush to judgment

and weak efforts at wit, you over looked the point about the Carter Center and the five (5) criteria that it has found necessary to ensure that fair elections are conducted. Tell me, how are elections held in the USofA? Can you tell me how many different methods are used, what the laws are in each of the states? Can you tell me how many precincts are in Ohio, how many counties are in Illinois or Mississippi? Your simple minded perception of the complicated process that is the USofA election system may be why you have such difficulty in understanding why viewing and monitoring elections with the Carter Center is so important. Or, is it simpler than that? Are you one of those folks that say "The international community be damned, we are the USofA and we can do what we want. No one tells us what to do or how to do things!"

The only self-absorbed people I see are those on this forum that do not look at the bigger picture. They are the ones that wanted "Daddy Kerry" to hold their hands and to stop the bully from picking on them. They are the ones that think he let us down. They are the ones that refuse to accept their responsibility in all of this, their responsibility in the operations of our government. Blaming Kerry for the election theft is like blaming a victim of rape for the rape. Rape is not a sexual crime, it is a crime of violence and power. The ilk that are ruining and running this nation are pretty powerful and violent. Even if he wore the short skirt and saw it coming, it was not his fault.

[flyarm]

34. i don't mean to sound a sceptic but...

right before the election cam kerry came here to our area of fla...he came to a democratic club dinner,..people paid to see him...400 people showed up..i spoke at that dinner before Cam...we had teachers and business people a very mixed crowd...well for 1 hour all Cam spoke about was isreal..how isreal needs this and that etc..it went on and on..until people in the back of the room got really pissed and one man actually threw his chair and stormed out..and others followed him..they were yelling..what about florida..what about our jobs, what about our election?? people were very concerned ..they came because they were concerned ..they were concerned about the validity of our election that was days away...
because i was a delegate i got so many calls by people pissed the next day..,.people i didnt know but who knew i was a delegate..i got calls from college teachers who were there who said everyone at their table was pissed...that it seemed as if kerry was more interested in ireal than here at home and our election....

now i will tell you..kerry doesn't have to face the people in our community who will now ask where was kerry for us ..but he was in palestine overseeing their election..those of us who work here in our communities will have to buffer these questions and we dont have the answers...all we have are guesses..well we guess there was a secret plan..well we guess they are doing stuff bewhind the scenes..well folks ..been there done that since nov 3rd..and i am not doing it anymore..i will not play games ..not when people want real answers...like what the hell was that email last week..if i get another email or phone call about it i will scream...i believed too..i really did ...but there comes a time when one must be realistic..and i know many will get mad at me for saying that...but ..i can no longer play the what if games..or maybe this is what he's doing or maybe that is what kerry is doing...well i don't see it...and i can assure you i worked hard with this campaign...i have even called the lawyers from ny who were working for kerry big time guys ..amd they have told me to stop being delusional..nothing is going on....not in front of the scenes and not in back of them...
as long as we hang on to what kerry is or isnt doing we dont move forward and look to how we fix things starting in our own communities..its starts local folks...its starts by organizing..it starts by hard work...we need to start by supporting alternative media...in a big way...we need to make a concerted effort to shut off msm and take the power 59 million people should have...weneed to go to local meetings and tell what we know..we need to wake people up in our neighborhoods...tell them let them know...they are not getting the truth..and to shut their tv msm off...we need to look now for viable candidates in our neighborhoods...this starts grassroots but it must be owned by the grassroots...if you have lists of people from this election send them links to stories they are not getting on msm..set up email groups...get networks going...singing to the choir doesnt get the word out there..send to your local media..they may not report it..but they will know you know they are not reporting it..set up groups to send editorials.,.and be relentless...
don't stick to woulda coulda shoulda..go for it..go for we will take it back and we will do whatever it takes to take it back..get ruthless if nessesary..thats what we are up against!
if the people know their elections are filled with discrepancies and possible fraud..people will act on it..but right now the masses don't know...
fly

[merh]

51. Well, since you have such connections and you know Cam Kerry

well enough to call him Cam, have you taken the time to call him or Kerry and voice your concerns and ask them whatthef*ck? Sounds to me like Cam was speaking to the audience stereotypically and was unaware of the makeup of the crowd before him, that was Cam's fault, not necessarily Kerry's.

Do you are expect miracles from Kerry? He can't claim what was legally, though fraudulently, given to another. He has to play by the rules. I have no idea what he is doing but I can see positive things in what he is doing. I don't need him to hold my hand and in all reality, he is not significant, he was just our candidate. If one person you know voted for the weed, then you are just as responsible for the results as Kerry is. You did your best campaigning for him and he did his best campaigning for us. They stole it from you, from me, from him.

Do you want him to take up arms and overthrow the government? What do you expect him to do. The legal process is in motion, lawyers are working on it, Conyers is trying to get the FBI to investigate the elections, what do you want him to do?

He was a prosecutor for gosh sake, he is not going to say "Bush stole the election, the election is a fraud" without hard evidence and we don't have hard evidence. We have supposition, we have probabilities but no hard evidence.

Don't you think it is frustrating for him? He campaigned for 2 years, mortgaged his home, lived with them attacking his credibility and his honor, put his family through hell and all because he thought he could do a better job of running this nation than the idiot weed. And what is sad, he won the damn thing and now you are mad at him.

Focus your anger and your energies at the weed and his admin and the repukes. You are angry at the wrong guy.

IMHO, Kerry is being a statesmen, he is not waiting for the repuke leaders to tell him what the agenda is, he has made his own. If you want answers to tell others in your region, try to contact Cam or Kerry or someone who is on his staff. Suggest that they read DU or print out the materials and give it to them to read.

[merh]

116. Check out this interview.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/011105W.shtml

[ginnyinWI]

88. a point of information

I understand that Cameron Kerry has converted to Judaism--that might explain the speech. Cam is not John, right? I have four brothers, and each is as different as night and day from the others.

[earth mom]

91. Good post -I agree.

I think we need to move on also. All the wishful thinking in the world isn't going to change a thing right now. Kerry is in the Middle East doing things that just don't make a lot of sense given what's going on here in America right now. But frankly, if he doesn't know how much we need him right now, they maybe he wasn't the right guy for the job in the first place. And believe me, it kills me to admit that and to accept it.

So where do we go from here? No one is sure. We are all racking our brains to figure it out. But all the in-fighting and finger pointing and disapproval of people who are frustrated with Kerry and who are pissed off that the Senators didn't all vote yes-sounds way too much like brainwashing and way too much like Karen Hughes and her "on message" spiel. Insisting that people conform stifles the energy that comes from the anger and outrage. And it is this very anger and outrage that we need to help propel us along the very long, winding and treacherous road we now face.

We need to worry less about what the repukes think of us and more about how we are going to win. That said, I do have faith that we will triumph in the end. And that's mainly because we aren't sheeple. Instead, we are people who use our brains with more creativity and brilliance than any repuke will ever know in their lifetime of black and white thinking. Even in my darkest hours, I believe that eventually our collective and differing paths will lead us to a solution and WE WILL WIN. And with that, * will be history.

[Darknyte7]

46. Good point and well said...

:dem:

[madison2000]

55. Thanks, merh, for pointing that out

I didn't know Kerry was hooking up with Carter on this trip and I am delighted to hear it. I would love to see Carter take on the issue of fair elections in the US because he has so much moral credibility on this issue and he is someone who spends his political capital very carefully.

Geez, I hope that's what they're talking about!!!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

57. Kerry had a huge team of lawyers and foreknowledge that

fraud could take place.

Kerry gave way too quickly when reports of problems in Ohio were pouring in. He didn't fight for those people, and please don't tell me he can fight for election reform. Bush has his fascist government in place.

Personally I didn't vote for him in my primary, and voted for Dennis. I voted for Kerry in the election with hope and because of ABB.

[merh]

62. Can you tell me know with your gift of hindsight, how many

methods the repugs used to steal the vote?

After you do that, can you tell me what could have been done on election day by the teams of Kerry lawyers to prevent the theft?

Or, can you tell me what Kerry's lawyers could have done, pry to the election, to have prevented it?

Lawsuits were filed against the Blackwell, before the election, when he tried to limit the weight of the paper for registrations.

Attempts were made, when the efforts were discovered.

Tell me what Dennis is doing about election reform.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

71. To start with Dennis had the courage to vote Aye on Thursday, and as

to election reform? Do you really believe that the majority party is interested in it? Look at how they went for the jugular on Thursday, and the last time I looked, the majority wins. Unless the media has a gigantic change of heart, very few people will even have a clue that election reform is on the table.

Edited for a silly typo.

[merh]

74. And it has been explained to you ad nausea why it was best

that Kerry not be there on the 6th.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

77. In your opinion, and not mine. n/t

[merh]

80. In a lot of folks opinions.

But I guess you like sour grapes!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

95. Then you are not reading threads on this board. There are many

here who feel the way I do.

As to the sour grape comment. That was totally uncalled for. I have been nothing but civil with you.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

73. Ooops! Forgot about the hindsight, and I don't want to ignore that.

It has nothing to do with hindsight. I knew about black box voting for a couple of years now. Posted extensively about it on AOL. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that corporate owned voting machines are the fastest way to a bloodless coup.

[merh]

75. Opps, you forgot to explain

What could have been done on election day by the teams of Kerry lawyers to prevent the theft?

Or, can you tell me what Kerry's lawyers could have done, prior to the election, to have prevented it?

[ginnyinWI]

89. I'm enjoying your posts, Merh

These Monday Morning Quarterbacks are something, aren't they.

[merh]

100. Thanks for the nice words.

I am so weary of those who expect to be saved! As if our candidate was superman. How immature, how silly! :silly:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

94. After the 2000 election, legislation was introduced for paper ballots

and in the spring for transparent elections (Holt and Graham bill) so that the codes of the voting machines would not be in the possession of the voting machine companies. As I understand people were hoping for Kerry to talk about it at the convention, and according to a friend of mine a delegate, were disappointed that he didn't.

There should have been commercials flooding the airwaves alerting people to the dark waters of electronic voting.

On election day, it was expected that provisional balloting would create a large problem and the Dems could have had something in place at every polling place to assist the voters find the correct precincts to vote in.

I don't know about Ohio, but isn't there there is full disclosure in other states of the number of machines to be used. If there was full disclosure for Ohio, why weren't they there to check it. Voter turnout was expected to be huge.

He had teams of lawyers and no computer experts.

On November 3rd Kerry conceded before 3 states had been counted. There is no way that he should have conceded then. News of the problems of Ohio were pouring in on election day. Those problems and foreknowledge of possible vote theft should have made Kerry go ahead with sending that plane from Boston with lawyers. Computer experts should have been sent too. He should of gone ahead with foia filings, and try to lock-up the central tabulators. Instead he conceded.

It turned my stomach when the brave Glibs had to scramble for the funding for the recounts. I donated several times to them. Then how they had called to arms people to assist with recounts, when Kerry could have had teams of professionals already in place. The man had millions of dollars in GELAC to do this.

[merh]

99. You do realize that the state's run the elections and there is nothing

a candidate or his team of lawyers can do to alter or improve how elections were run? You do know that don't you?

Even if computer experts had been there, they could not look at the equipment being used that day to see the fraud and theft, let alone to stop it or fix it. Hell, they can't do anything today until the court's allow them access to the computers so that they can "check the inner workings".

There were folks in place at every precinct that was considered vulnerable, guess you don't know all you think you know. Blackwell and his bunch tried to prevent monitors from working inside the polling places. I think you need to go back and research the facts from that day.

Ads/Commercials: They have commercials warning against the dangers of drinking and driving, yet folks still drink and drive.

Here's you something to ponder -- did any of your friends vote for the weed? If they did, "how dare you let us down?", you should have been able to convince them to vote for Kerry, or at best, against the weed.

Have you been able to convince all of your friends and acqaintences that the election was stolen and that there was fraud? If not, how the heck to you expect Kerry to convince millions of strangers?

Your expectations of fellow humans is quite unrealistic, imho.


On a side note: I find it friggin amazing how many Kerry bashers had friends that were delegates and close to the inner circle.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

104. Is it necessary to talk down to people? Quite frankly I have spent

The last 3 years trying to expose ** and my friends and family have all supported my efforts.

I don't need a primer from you, as I have been onto this stuff from the get go, nor be held to task for what I feel about Kerry. You can continue to support this man as I have my choice not to.

[merh]

106. You have been talking down to supporters, what you don't like

it when it is done to you? You have made my point for me, you and thousands of others new that there would be fraud, you warned, you posted, you wrote letters, yet it happened. What could Kerry have done that would have changed things? Not a damn thing!

You have the right to your opinion, as do I. But be realistic in your critism and focus your hate and anger to the person or persons that deserve it -- the weed and his band of rethugs. Stop putting Kerry down, stop puttting Kerry supporters down -- it is a waste of energy.

Peace.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

109. I have talked down to no one here,

nor have shown disrespect for their opinions. Anyone going back and reading my posts will see that clearly. I suggest that you look good and hard in the mirror.

After misstating my feelings and actions you say Peace? I think that is quite disingenuous of you. Sad, as Peace is probably one of the most favorite words in my life. You are blessfully on Ignore now.

[merh]

110. Sour grapes!

:shrug:

[Laurab]

102. Thanks, Merh & Wilms & the other non-bashers

I do try to avoid these threads, but every once in awhile I can't help stumbling onto one. I have yet to receive an answer as to what exactly he was SUPPOSED to do. Any possible scenario I come up with, has Kerry looking like a sore loser/conspiracy theorist, etc., and being destroyed by the right wing media machine. He has avoided that, kept his integrity intact with the people he will be working with (of course, not with the people who think he should have run around screaming fraud, or something similar, but that can't be helped.) Besides which I've noticed on the 'bashing" threads that no matter WHAT he does, it's the wrong thing.

I don't think the "chess game" has proven to be false at all. Maybe in a year or so I might, but I have patience and optimism. I think we haven't seen anything yet, and I have faith in Kerry, which is mostly based upon the way he has fought his battles up to now, and the fact that he is obviously a very intelligent man with integrity. He also knows exactly what and who he is fighting. I am not saying I know exactly what he's doing, but I find some of the things he's chosen to do quite interesting. I'm expecting it to get more interesting, too.

[Rhiannon12866]

135. This is an excellent point. Thanks.

Before our 2004 presidential election, President Carter was sharply criticizing the possibility for a fair vote, yet again, in the state of Florida. And, as we all now know, things turned out to be much worse in Ohio. Carter can only do so much in the US, since he, and the Carter Center, have to be asked to observe in any election, as they have been in Mozambique, Venezuela, Indonesia, and now Palestine, among others. Kerry is a leader in the Senate and in the Democratic Party. We can only win with him on board with this issue.:-)

[meisje]

17. AWOL

[madrchsod]

25. i posted something to that effect

earlier today and it was pointed out to me that kerry is the leader in the senate now and what better way to screw bush over is to meet with people bush wants to destroy. i thought this over and realized that kerry is doing the right thing. while bush remains a prisoner in his reality of the world,the real world recognizes that kerry lives in theirs. carter,clinton, and now kerry are the true representatives of the this country and they bring hope that we as a nation haven`t abandoned the real world.

[merh]

31. Excellent point.

Thank you. :hi:

[yinkaafrica]

32. I don't think Bush cares about any of this

Looks like he might accomplish everything
he set out to. What will we do if our ships are all burned?
I want to see Kerry in Bush's face 24/7.
We got a war on our hands, brownie points don't count.

[Wilms]

35. Why "think" when you can wonder.

Like, do you wonder why * just sent a retired general to Iraq to make an assessment?

Ya think it's 'cause Kerry is there? Maybe?

[flyarm]

39. hmmm

http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=534

What the Bush Cartel Has Sunk to IN OUR NAME, Desperation in Iraq: Rumsfeld Will Return to Death Squad War Crimes in Iraq

from buzzflash and the raw story...fly

[merh]

52. He is in his face, without being in his face. Don't you think the

weed's ego and his admin are livid that Kerry is meeting with leaders of foreign nations and they didn't send him?

[whometense]

33. Well said!!!

And thanks!

[catgirl]

36. Well said madrchsod

The world has great respect for Kerry and virtually none for Bush.
In fact, he is openly detested by the majority of the world.
Regardless that Kerry did not "win", he is still going to fight
and work hard for a peaceful and sane world.

[NYCGirl]

43. Kerry is not the leader in the Senate, Harry Reid is.

Kerry is supposed to be the de facto leader of the party.

[Sydnie]

45. Welcome back to the light madrchsod

Just keep watching. He will have ** running around like a chicken with his head cut off trying to anticipate just what Kerry might do next. And we can all laugh our heads off watching it. ** sinks lower and lower into his paranoid delusions until one day -- even his supporters won't be able to deny his conditon any longer. Kerry's mere existance in the Senate is enough to get his engines running. Kerry's trip to the Middle East has it racing. Goodness only knows what will happen when he starts to introduce legislation later this year.

I am making popcorn and settling in for a long, wonderful show. Care to join me?

[dandrhesse]

49. I like what Kerry is doing also

He didn't "win" the election. I think it was best to be gone on the 6th, I tried to envision him being there on the 6th and it would have been a media fiasco. Kerry would have been criticized no matter what he said or did, and that would have been the focus.

Instead...he went to Bagdad, Mosul and Fallujah and various other places in the Middle East. I didn't notice any reports saying they had to sneak him in during the middle of the night either, like Rumsfield. In fact one report that I read which didn't stay up long on the internet(big surprise) said he was greeted by cheers by the soldiers.

Patience is really difficult at times, especially considering the war and the lives that are at risk but Watergate didn't happen overnight and this makes Watergate look like a joke.

This is big time stuff with powerful people and big big bucks. When they finally strike, they can't be wrong, not on one detail, it will take time, but arrogance will be their downfall.

keep the faith

[meganmonkey]

64. OMG why did I click on this thread?

I can't wait for the day when there are no more threads debating this.

:boring:

[shance]

66. Kerry's AWOL and needs to be removed from his position as Senator.

Please wake up everyone.

John Kerry betrayed this party by disappearing and playing coy instead of fighting and betrayed thousands of people that put their time and support under him. I simply don't know how else to put it. His actions speak loudly if we will listen.

We must stop enabling unacceptable, elitist, spineless leadership. Republican or Democrat is irrelevant now.

Many of you for whatever reasons, are condoning Kerry's abandoning ship. I hope you will ask yourself why you are accepting a betrayal.

If someone kicks you in the stomach, do you immediately defend them to the point of sacrificing your own dignity? American voters should be spitting nails and yet more rationalizations and defending those that deserve no defense at this juncture, perhaps permanently on something as wrong as this.

Is it because you cannot accept that he would do such a thing? But he, in fact, did.

Where was he when Barbara Boxer stood up on the 6th?

I know there's a slew of you that will immediately come to his defense and figure out some passionate excuse as to why he was OUT OF THE COUNTRY.

There's simply no excuse.

The facts are all laid out for you, but many still refuse. You think any of us like it?


I understand its painful, however the consequences of not accepting the reality I believe will fare much worse. We in America have lived in fantasy land for far too long. When we accept unacceptable behavior at any level it sends a message and an effect, however small and seemingly irrelevant - a message that erodes decency, discipline and respect. Of equal importance, by allowing unacceptable leadership, we are also letting down the good, hardworking leaders that are putting their lives and their careers on the line for us. THAT CANNOT BE TOLERATED.

Think how valuable our good leaders are. Think how much they need our support and strength to stand with them. Not individuals like John Kerry, who left us at the alter, but those who have shown their love for the country and support of what is good and right.

John Kerry hasnt lost anything. He took no risk and as a result he made no sacrifice. He talked alot and "reported for duty", but never reported for duty. Sometimes I wonder if he ever had any intention of reporting. Thats what his actions have also created: further doubt and mistrust in our system. But we did report for duty. And other candidates reported for duty.

Keep in mind, absolving him or ANYONE of necessary accountablility only allows bad leadership to continue and thrive.

I believe John Kerry abandoned us when we needed him. He has given us four more years with George Bush & company on a silver platter and without even a fight.

And some of you think that's acceptable?

Tell me then, what else do you think is acceptable?

I will continue to vote for good Democratic leaders, but I will not accept unacceptable leaders from either/any party.

In my opinion, nor should you.

[merh]

69. Okay, I'll take the bait.

What would you have him do?

[Sydnie]

70. I live in Mass shance

and that is never going to happen as long as he wants a seat. You see, we see that he is doing the work that needs to be done. We know that he didn't abandon anyone or any cause.

Unless you live in Mass with those of us that do, that's really not your call, is it?

[fearnobush]

78. John Kerry is better off having the pukes being gracious toward his

concession than calling him a fraud, traitor and an election theif. Until we provide drop dead proof of actual vote tampering, Kerry is doing the right thing. I hated him for not speaking out, but then again, I cannot hate the man who's politics are so in line with my own. Kerry is a good man.

[EFerrari]

79. No, unless we donated, walked and talked. Not our call, is it. n/t

[shance]

83. I donated both money and time to Kerry in California. Did you?

We all have a responsibility to participate in Democracy.


And we all have a right to express our opinions about our candidates, even when there are those may not agree with our opinions.

[Corey_Baker08]

84. That is Complete Bullshit

This post was seemingly stupid and consistent of ignorance. Kerry is in Iraq visiting our troops in a time of war, how is that being AWOL. He is doing something our very own President has not done and probably wont do, support our troops at a time of war.

Kerry is taking a great risk by even being there right now. he's showing the brave men an women of the armed forces he will not use there services and turn his back on them like Bush has. for you to say hes turned his back on his country is completely uneducated ignorance in my opinion. He is not turning his back on his counrty or the Democratic party, hes seeing first hand the war in Iraq, he will come back in 2006 with a fresh campaign with new Ideas and visions for a better, safer more secure tomorrow, he will be elected president in 2008, believe that.

[rpavlock]

126. Not A Chance

Kerry has no chance in 2008. The party will not support a loser. Never has and never will.

[LittleClarkie]

87. I work for Dems, not against them

and certainly not against a Senator from a state not my own.

The Republicans are targeting enough of our people with us helping them.

And who would you like him replaced with. It's not a done deal that another Dem would get in.

Do you know who is talking about running against him? Jerome Corsi. How would you like that? Mr. Hatemonger himself. Oh my yes, so much better.

[ginnyinWI]

90. shance,

just because you say it's so, doesn't make it so.

Some of us have been watching John Kerry for over a year now, and we have read biographies, speeches, articles about him for that whole time. Some of us have met him in person or at least have seen him live. And some of us have arrived at some conclusions about this man.

One of the most important ones is this: don't take him at face value!
He has a long history of being deliberative and not revealing what he is thinking or doing until he is ready to. It comes partly from his years as a prosecutor. He doesn't give up easily--he doesn't desert people he is committed to.

So you are asking us to take your face-value observations of his behavior as being all that there is. But we don't buy it. It is far more likely that we, and you, do NOT know everything that is going on--is that a fair statement? So I, for one, am going to reserve judgement on John Kerry, and wait and watch what he is going to do.

You don't have to if you don't want to. But I have learned to trust him. He has surprised people before, so don't be so quick to judge.

[flyarm]

107. thank you ...

a well stated post!! I wholeheartedly agree!!
fly

[shance]

124. Thank you Fly*

My thoughts are meant to look for higher conviction within the parties and ALL of us as individuals, not to hold on to beliefs despite the lack of conviction in some.

I tend to believe we all lose conviction and ultimately hope if it seems to be lacking in our leaders. And by conviction, Im not talking puritanism.

[propagandafreegal]

82. It is so sad that at this late date people still want Kerry to

'do something'. Sad.. :(

[imenja]

93. they are waiting for the Second Coming

a Messiah to deliver them from their oppression. It strikes me as ridiculous.

[imenja]

92. a bit late for that

he should have been there Thursday. It's over now. The count has been voted into law.

[Philly Buster]

97. Election 2004 is over

Bush won one way or another

But that doesn't mean we roll over and play dead. We need to work for election reform because this country's survival depends on it.

And don't ignore working on State legislatures to reform. It's going to be hard to get anything out of DC.

[flyarm]

108. exactly

we need to engage in our local and state representatives, we need to hold them accountable if we have unverified voting, and replace them if they do not follow our wishes, we need to get involved in all local issues, and we need to engage in speaking at our local dec and dnc meetings, and educate the locals to the fragility of our voting systems..this will take alot of grass roots work, and the clock is ticking..we must find people in our local areas that we trust to take our concerns sreiously and do what we can to get them elected..and remove those who do not listen to our concerns...we must demand verified and transparent voting , and codes that we the people own, not corporations, and if the corps dont give up the codes than we must have grass roots effort to disallow any corp being
involved in our voting process..
we must hold soe or boe accountable, by being engaged in the whole process of approvals all the way to our state capitols..
we can no longer..forget about the whole process until election day..and we must ourselves be prepared to kick out of office anyone who is running or has the propriety to run any partys election campagning for our state.We can all be out front with our local parties to speak out and educate..so when these issues come up..we have a grassroots in place and ready for mass action..another words we must be organized...there is no more time or place for complacency.
fly

[dandrhesse]

111. regardless of what we think about what Kerry is doing or not doing

we need to keep working. The Republican leadership would love it if we would all get discouraged and walk away.

We need to determine what our best next move is and direct our energy toward that goal.

For what it is worth, I went over each senators statements from the congressional record and each one had specific agenda items for us to keep the heat on and try to get something accomplished.

The main point I got from this is the the Republicans control almost every facet and so it will be up to us to turn up the heat and make them face public opinion.

I feel like the best thing would be to flood Hastert and Lott with cards, letters and emails to DC office and each of their satelite offices demanding that the Republicans in the House and Senate explain why every attempt that has been made to make elections more legitmate has been fought or killed by their party. What conceivable reason does any Senator or member of the House have to intentionally prevent our elections from being legitimate and defending the right to vote?

In what way is it morally correct to tell a citizen who was wrongfully denied a ballot or intimidated to the point of leaving the polls, to "get over it"?

Explain to me the moral virtue in telling an elderly woman who has fainted from exhaustion and still not allowed to move to the head of the voting line that she is "beating a dead horse"?

When Republicans make those accusations they are spitting in the face of every citizen whose voice was not heard.

When Republicans call people who made complaints "conspiracy theorists" and "sore losers" what they are really saying is, we don't want your vote, we will try our best to keep you from voting and if you manage to vote anyway then we won't count it!

In what way does that fulfill the oath of office that you took and sore to defend the Constitution and represent the citizens of our country?

Pick one or all of the above. They are straight forward questions and it is about time we all start asking them.

[flyarm]

114. absolutely!!!!

i was a poll watcher in fla for 2 weeks early vote and the general and it was hot here during early vote and the lines were most times 3 hours long, and remember we have a huge senior citizen voting base, well many had heat problems and many could not stand that long...no one should be put through that..i had 2 ladies who drove up and were told they were no longer giving out absentee ballots to people in cars, that they must wait in line to get one...well i went ballistic and got soe out to their car..they were both severely handicapped ..but they came to vote ..but could not stand on any lines...i got them the absentee ballots so they could fill them out in their car..then i made sure they got taken into the soe office..i believe if anyone wants to vote they should be given every opportunity to vote..and then get it counted!!
and yes "we the people" must keep the heat on and hold all those who disregard our votes accountable!!

i saw a 102 yr old woman come to vote, she could hardly walk and we had to put her in a chair with wheels to get to the machines...she was elegantly dressed and just a lovely woman...and i could only imagine the stories she could tell!!
i do not believe anyone should underestimate the wonder of the vote and the people who have survived so much and honor all of us with voting for our democracy!
and we must hold all accountable who would take that vote from us or our democracy!
fly

[ClintCooper2003]

125. The election is over. But the investigation is not.

[emlev]

128. That's for darn sure

It seems to me that lots more info has come to light since 1/6. Has anyone else noticed that pattern?

[Rhiannon12866]

136. Kerry is home. And he's come out swinging!

Did you see him during the Rice confirmation hearings this afternoon? He was second, only to the incomparable Barbara Boxer, in calling her on the race to war with Iraq, based on faulty intelligence and with no exit strategy. He was very good, as opposed to so many of our Democratic representatives, who have reservations, but are just going to vote to confirm the woman who ignored the memos about bin Laden attacking within the U.S., which predicted 9/11, and the AG nominee who approved using torture with Iraqi detainees, contributing significantly to the insurgency and so many more American deaths. We need to contact all our representatives, and not let them off the hook about this, telling them that these are not people who we want to have in our government.


Rice and Dice
John Kerry nails Condoleezza Rice on Iraq.
By Fred Kaplan
Posted Tuesday, Jan. 18, 2005, at 5:20 PM PT

<snip>Kerry didn't play the Democrats' bulldog—that role had been assigned to Sen. Barbara Boxer, who assumed it later in the morning with venom—but he did strike the demeanor of a stern, dismayed taskmaster. He recited the common wisdom that Rice's confirmation was assured, but added that she might not get his vote. "I have reservations," he said, as if in a tone of regret.<snip>

http://slate.msn.com/id/2112386/

As for the election fraud, he had more to lose than anyone else. Kerry spent yesterday tackling this issue. Yes, I agree that he should have stepped up to the plate during the actual election, but too many of our representatives waited until Congress reconvened to bring this to national attention, but this was their moment to get national attention!

Kerry alleges voters were 'suppressed'
Links poll issues to King's struggle
By Scott S. Greenberger, Globe Staff | January 18, 2005

In his first high-profile address since conceding the presidential election, Senator John F. Kerry used Boston's annual Martin Luther King Jr. memorial breakfast yesterday to decry what he called the suppression of thousands of would-be voters last November.

"Thousands of people were suppressed in their efforts to vote. Voting machines were distributed in uneven ways," the former Democratic nominee told an enthusiastic audience of 1,200 at the Boston Convention and Exhibition Center in South Boston.

"In Democratic districts, it took people four, five, 11 hours to vote, while Republicans through in 10 minutes. Same voting machines, same process, our America," Kerry said.

In an e-mail message he sent to his supporters on the day before Congress certified the election results earlier this month, Kerry cited "widespread reports of irregularities, questionable practices by some election officials, and instances of lawful voters being denied the right to vote" in the battleground state of Ohio.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/kerry/articles/2005/01/18/kerry_alleges_voters_were_suppressed/

Welcome to DU, KerryReallyWon! We're so glad to have you with us! And, yes, he really did.;(

Here's the definitive article, IMHO, by Greg Palast, the best in the business, of journalism and election fraud, since he broke the story of the 2000 voter fraud in Florida. Too bad he works for the foreign press.:shrug:

Kerry Won. Here Are the Facts.
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=392&row=1