How can a candidate ignore thousands of votes in dispute and concede?

[RaulVB]

I guess we need to review the cases like Coshocton County Ohio, where the CNN totals talk about 16.100 votes and "The Nashua Advocate" noted that a new count numbers showed 17.300 votes.

Links below:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/OH/P/00/county.000.html

http://nashuaadvocate.blogspot.com/2004/12/news-election-2004-green-party_18.html

Or the "MISSING 58.000 FLORIDA BALLOTS" that were never found and later remailed, so the total number of ballots involved in the incident would be 116.000!

That a professional campaign strategist or manager could ignore such unbelievable problems is really beyond comprehension to me.

And to claim that this election will ever be over without an investigation of these issues is ludicrous.

[genius]

1. He's on the other side.

I can't help wondering if Kerry wasn't just in the game to get rid of the serious candidates.

[RaulVB]

2. To me is incompetence beyond reasonable limits

The people working with Democratic candidates is just absolutely incompetent.

[tjdee]

5. I'd argue that--Dem PR is laughable.

Which is a shame, because they're getting paid more than all of us to suck, essentially.

[Goldeneye]

11. I'm not going to say that Kerry is fighting behind the scenes because

that got hokey awhile ago. However, there is plenty of info coming out to suggest the democrats including Kerry are going to fight the Bush administration, and work on real election reform. They've all seen pretty much what we've seen, and they must know this election was stolen. However, there is no conclusive evidence. Plenty of smoking guns, but no solid reason to flip the vote from bush to kerry. The irregularities you mention should and will be investigated...

[aquart]

26. Is the fight because of Kerry, or Daschle?

Senators suddenly realizing that no tradition holds and anyone for any reason can be the target of Republican trumped-up wrath?

Maybe a few woke up?

[RaulVB]

27. The problem is exactly that vision

The vision of the fraud as "not enough."

Look, If I shot a guy but I didn't kill him then is not a crime, uh?

That is absurd and to portray the fraud in those terms makes impossible to bring up the issue with full force, unfortunately.

[Goldeneye]

30. I think there needs to be a standard for overturning an election.

Its a big deal. Solid proof would be nice. If we just did it, and couldn't convince the repubs that it was stolen then Kerry would have the same level of legitamacy Bush had, and the Pubs would start contesting elections left and right.

I'll say it again, I thouroughly believe John Kerry would have won a fair and trasparent election. I think that this election will go down in the history books as the 2nd consecutive stolen election. For now, whats done is done. We should work to uncover the fraud.

[Goldeneye]

4. I couldn't even begin to think something like that about Kerry...

His record speaks for itself. And if Kerry was just in there to get rid of the serious candidates, he did a fricking good job faking a real campaign...he won you know.

[seito]

6. Here we go again...

Isn't there something more constructive that we could discuss?

[RaulVB]

9. No. Thousands of votes not counted and an election not finished?

Something more constructive than removing a fraudulent regime from power?

I'm not going away, sorry.

[seito]

22. Removing a fraudulent regime is GREAT

Investigating the fraud: Great
Getting the word out to the masses: Great

Divisive accusations such as those made by the poster to which I was replying: Not Constructive

"I can't help wondering if Kerry wasn't just in the game to get rid of the serious candidates"

Comments like these serve only to divide. There are people here that love John Kerry and there are people here that loath him. We all share in a common cause. Sometimes I think we lose sight of who the enemy actually is.

[RaulVB]

25. Hey seito, you know...

I seem to cross respond to posts whenever you write in a tread.

Is not intentional...;)

[seito]

28. Tell me something Raul

You have a lot of criticism for Kerry's staff. I am curious about your personal opinion of John Kerry. Your post earlier today about his visit to Iraq was quite intriguing.

[RaulVB]

31. Great man but a gifted politician?

He needs lots of information before acting, I gather, and seems to react very, very slowly to any type of development.

Plus, I'm quite puzzled by him, hinting at doing things that are unexpected but then, apparently, moving 2 steps back for each step forward he takes.

I guess, I'm saying that he doesn't surround himself with the best people available.

He ended up using Paul Begala on the campaign!

[tjdee]

3. "A concession isn't legally binding!"

Another thread to argue in!

We're never going to get closure on this. Until maybe 20 years from now, when John Edwards writes his memoirs or something.

My own perception is that Kerry conceded too quickly, almost at breakneck speed. But that's what he did, and we can't change it. :(

[RaulVB]

7. My point is different, though

The last election saw episodes of "missing votes" that would clearly change the outcome of it if all the incidents were to be investigated.

I don't understand how the "Democratic leaders" can look the other way and act like nobody "noticed those minor details"!

[tjdee]

13. It all hinged on Kerry, and he dropped it.

I see what you're saying, and I've been (mostly) reluctant to get into the Kerry bashing/criticizing...I totally agree with you.

Kerry's concession knocked the knees out of everyone else, as we heard on January 6th when the Republicans kept bringing it up. I can't blame him for the cheating and many things, but he wanted to be the nominee, he has reponsibility for what happened with his campaign and the fallout from it.

I also suppose they're afeared that some yahoo will find missing votes from Clinton's terms. :shrug:

[mazzarro]

10. It may not be legally binding but it deflated the fighting spirit

and threw the foot soldiers into disarray. That is not good for the future of the people the party will have to rely in upcoming legislative and campaign fights. Kerry did a dis-service to us all.

[marcologico]

8. Because he needed millions, not thousands, and it didn't work for Gore

in 2000, and he HAD the votes.

[RaulVB]

14. Reminder

The American system does not take the national popular vote into account in order to declare a candidate victorious at the Presidential level.

I gather you like the construction that the corporate media makes of it but that's your problem.

Kerry won the election. I'm waiting to see what he does about it, still.

[marcologico]

18. You think the congress, courts, and court of public opinion (Murdoch)

would let him get away with that? Nopity.

[RaulVB]

20. The biggest obstacle is people like you (n/t)

[marcologico]

21. Okay I'll shut up then. Write to Hastert and Frist okay? n/t

[RaulVB]

23. Done already

I'm sure is in a trash can somewhere in Washington.

[marcologico]

24. U ROCK!

:toast:

[marcologico]

12. And don't try to tell me he'd be president if he "won" Ohio in a recount.

n/t

[RaulVB]

16. He is the President

I think that this forum is not where you should be posting.

We don't think "*" "won" the election because we don't accept fraud as legitimate.

[marcologico]

19. I'm with you there, he's the president, but he has to prove it.

Have you written to Hastert and Frist yet?

[marcologico]

15. Last point: this crap from crypto-also rans is counterproductive, bye.

:hi:

[RaulVB]

17. Good bye!, Hopefully...(n/t)

[DulceDecorum]

29. Have you SEEN

the photographs coming back from Abu Ghraib?

History repeats itself......

On June 22, 1633, the Inquisition held the final hearing on Galileo, who was then 69 years old and pleaded for mercy, pointing to his "regrettable state of physical unwellness". Threatening him with torture, imprisonment, and death on the stake, the show trial forced Galileo to "abjure, curse and detest" his work and to promise to denounce others who held his prior viewpoint. Galileo did everything the church requested him to do, following (so far as we can tell) the plea bargain of two months earlier. He was convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei