Just a reminder: It's not 'voter fraud', it's ELECTION FRAUD

[New Earth]

hate to beat a dead horse and i'm sure some people are tired of hearing me say it, but i still see it used way to often. i think this is what they call 'framing', and it needs to be framed correctly or people who are new to the issue are going to get the wrong idea. It's not the voters who committed the fraud, it's the voting machines/tabulators, voter suppression, etc - all as one, election fraud. PLEASE, try to use ELECTION FRAUD more frequently!

[jhain]

1. thanks n/t

[garybeck]

2. theez guys call it Electoral Fraud

this is a good "encyclopedia" definition of it:

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Electoral_fraud

Electoral fraud is possibly the single most effective propaganda technique ever created. It simultaneously fools the majority of voters into thinking they are a minority, the minority to be empowered is emboldened by thinking they are a majority, moves the whole weight of the state, military, judiciary and bureaucracy behind the fraudulent pretender, and in general brings down the wrath of the public on those who contest the results beyond some minimal and mandated process.

The Roman Empire as consolidated under Emperor Augustus Caesar used the technique, with the Emperor's friends and family running for the electoral offices that had been established under the old Roman Republic. As with today's electoral frauds, a great pomp and circumstance would accompany the elections to posts of Consul, Tribune, etc.. However, in fact, these were part of a strict military dictatorship defended by the Praetorian Guard - it was, especially under later Emperors, dangerous to run against his friends, and even more dangerous to publicly criticize those Caesar favoured to hold offices.

The Communist bloc made great effort to claim democratic legitimacy and likewise held elections for all important offices that were associated with the state (as opposed to the Communist Party which usually appointed its own leaers, the real power base). Josef Stalin is popularly attributed to have said "The people who vote decide nothing; the people who count the votes decide everything."

However, even in one-candidate races, there is often a valid reason to hold an election: to test the degree to which the public or party will take action to support the designated official. This is the purpose of ratification votes in the Communist Party of China, for instance.

more:

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Electoral_fraud

[New Earth]

3. ok

e·lec·tor·al Audio pronunciation of "Electoral" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-lktr-l)
adj.

1. Of, relating to, or composed of electors.
2. Of or relating to election.


as long as it is used in context relating to definition #2, i dont' see anything wrong with using 'electoral fraud'. as long as it focuses on the root word 'elect', and not the root word 'vote', i think it gets the correct message across as well as 'election'.

[New Earth]

4. let's also be clear on the definition of fraud

fraud Audio pronunciation of "fraud" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (frôd)
n.

1. A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.
2. A piece of trickery; a trick.

voter suppression and failure to provide adequate number of machines are by defnition, FRAUD. don't let anyone fool you.

---

I will also further explain why the words 'vote' or 'voter' must not be involved with spreading the word of this issue. Yes, there were some fraudulent votes. Fraudulent tabulation of votes. Ghost votes. More votes than voters. Votes for Kerry coming up for Bush.

But the blame does not lie with the VOTERS, it lies with with the election officials and the companies that provide the voting machines. THE FOCUS MUST BE ON THE HANDLING OF THE ELECTION, NOT THE VOTERS!!!

[New Earth]

5. .

[RaulVB]

6. Electoral fraud, yep!

Courtesy of the "rethug" party.

[Imagevision]

7. election fraud? -- Rove & co. pulled it off briantly, sad to say.

[demodonkey]

8. YES! I was in a bookstore tonight and the only book on the subject had...

the subtitle "Voter Fraud in America". GEESH! The poor voters are screwed out of their vote and now according to that title THEY are the ones apparently doing the fraud.

:grr:

[New Earth]

9. that's why it needs to stop.

i swear someone said this before, and i believe it is true - 'voter fraud' is the "Rovian" term. lol

but it is! it is misleading and distorts what the issue really is!

Well, it starts with one person and spreads from there. Spread the word, the word is ELECTION FRAUD.

[New Earth]

10. kick until 10 more people see this, and then GRIND IT INTO YOUR HEAD

and pass it on.

[WeHoldTheseTruths]

11. I think the word that applies with "voter" is suppression.

Voter suppression.

Voter suppression and election fraud.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Pacifist Patriot]

13. Voter fraud is a perfectly correct term, but like all phrases...

depends upon the context. Voter fraud is when an individual voter does something fraudulent such as vote twice or fill out someone else's absentee ballot. So it can be used correctly, but not with respect to manipulating results on a broader scale. That would be done by voter suppression, vote manipulation, etc. and in that case would be called election fraud.

[New Earth]

16. yes but

the focus is ALL OF IT, meaning election fraud. whether it's fraud by the voters or fraud by the election officials or machine manufacturers.

My main point is, too many people are using 'voter fraud' as the general word and it is too misleading and takes away from the message being conveyed.

Sorry if anyone disagrees, but using 'voter fraud' is BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD.


(and it drives Faye up a wall)

[Pacifist Patriot]

18. I agree with you, but the point remains...

there have been conversations about voter fraud that were specifically about voter fraud. To call what the grieving widower did in Washington election fraud misses the point of that story. I think it's more important to be accurate than get rid of a perfectly good phrase. I think we probably agree more than disagree.

[New Earth]

20. no, i understand what you are saying

if you are talking about a voter that voted twice then by all means, use voter fraud!!!!!!

SORRY FOR CAPS, BUT MY POINT IS, when you are using in GENERAL, it is election fraud, all around fraud, not just fraud by the voters. For example, if you want to tell someone that there are invesitigations in Ohio into 'fraud', you might say it was 'vote' fraud.

if you were referring to some voter who voted twice or committed some other kind of fraud, then of course you would say, for that specific case, it was 'voter fraud'.

All of it together, and in spreading the word to others, we need to use ELECTION FRAUD, so it covers all of the fraudulent actions and conveys the message that the ELECTION WAS FRAUDULENT.

i will explain it until you understand. i am patient. :)

[Pacifist Patriot]

22. I do understand. I swear I do. LOL!

You're preaching to the choir. I do use the phrase election fraud. But when someone asks if voter fraud is not correct it should be pointed out that at times it can be...but it depends upon what you are talking about.

[New Earth]

23. ok good

just as long as you use election fraud when spreading the general word!!! :)

[Pacifist Patriot]

12. Depends upon what you are talking about.

I referred to individuals caught voting twice, once by absentee ballot or early voting and then again at their polling place. Another story was about a guy who submitted an absentee ballot that arrived after his wife passed away. In those cases it would be voter fraud.

Overall though I agree. I'm trying to be extremely precise with my language. Voter suppression, vote manipulation, election fraud, etc. Definitely worth the reminder.

[berniew1]

14. A lot of it was vote machine fraud- especially touchscreens

http://www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html

[bleever]

15. Kicking for Faye's noble and relentless crusade.

:)

[electropop]

17. I've been biting my tongue too

Seen lots of the inaccurate version lately, and have held back, not wanting to make too much trouble. But yeah, I totally agree and support your post.

[New Earth]

19. do not hesitate to correct people

i've so far only found one person out of hundreds who seemed offended. i pound this concept so hard i got Fintan Dunne of BreadForNews.com to voluntarily change it all over his site, and to stop using it in his articles.

i explained why it is so important to say 'election fraud' in the two posts i made with the dictionary definitions...it's kind of a semantics/framing thing i guess you could say. but don't hesitate to correct people and if they ask why, explain to them what i said in this thread.

[libertypirate]

21. Which is a crime!

[Pendulum]

24. needs a kick,

I love your posts, Faye! :hi:

:kick:

[New Earth]

25. thank you

and welcome to DU :hi: :toast: