Questions for Elected Officials from Repub e-security expert Herrin:

[Amaryllis]

Many of you are familiar with Chuck Herrin, e-security expert who hacks into companies' computer systems for a living to test for security flaws. He is a republican and is 100% in favor of paper ballots, hand counted, because he knows better than anyone how easy it is to hack the vote on voting machines and tabulators. He has taken on election fraud big time.

It would be great if we could get him into congress (a congressional committee? Conyers?) to do his hack the vote demo. Any ideas?

This from his main page:
http://www.chuckherrin.com/main.htm

It's the integrity, stupid.

I wish my Republican leadership could see themselves from here. They don't get that when an elected official dismisses and ridicules credible evidence given by credible experts, they destroy their OWN credibility. PhDs, mathematicians, statisticians, accountants, auditors, retired judges, computer security experts, Congresspeople, and Senators all stood up and pointed to a mountain of questionable results and evidence, and we were told "the flesh is stripped off this dead horse".

"Get over it, you silly Republican Computer Security Expert!" What, do I think that I know more about computer security and vote tabulation software than a Senator, who in many cases can't check his own e-mail?

EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT

http://www.chuckherrin.com/evotingquestions.htm

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. folks the tide is turning the tide is turning

more and more people are puting the country before respective parties... this is good

[Amaryllis]

3. There are MANY honest repubs out there who are very alarmed at the

direction our country is headed, who would be working right along with us if they knew what was happening. Education is so crucial!

[Wilms]

2. Wow. I would've hoped Herrin and Conyers have already confered. n/t

[Amaryllis]

5. You'd hope but I've learned in this work to never assume anything!

[Wilms]

6. Good point, Amaryllis. So I just emailed Conyers. n/t

:)

[Amaryllis]

7. I was thinking of emailing Herrin too but on his site I read that he has

hundreds of emails still to go through. I think I will call Conyers' office on Tuesday and talk to them about Herrin. It is so crucial that they don't pass more reform legislation with flaws that make things worse, like HAVA.

[k8conant]

4. These are great questions which of course

have rather clear answers which point to the need for paper ballots.

Thanks for forwarding them.

:kick:

Edited for grammar

[marions ghost]

8. yes I feel the same way--we need to find out

what Chuck Herrin is up to and whether he could speak to other state legislatures outside of NC and to Congress. He seems very committed to paper ballots and makes a strong case against e-voting.

My question is--should our job as advocates for voting reform be to urge legislators to forget touchscreen (phase them out) and go immediately back to paper ballots, counted by optiscan? Old technology, but with better security, I am assuming it could work just fine.
Thoughts?

[BeFree]

11. No

Hand counted paper ballots are the only option.

Even the opti-scans are open to hacking.

What we each need to do is get involved locally with our elections office. Each of us needs to copy Herrin's words, take them to a reporter and ask then that reporter to go with you to the elections office and witness as you present Herrin's questions to the officials.

That would be revolution, eh?

[Amaryllis]

14. Are ALL the opti scans open to hacking ? I assume so since Herrin is

saying the ONLY option is hand counted paper. I would assume that if there are any other options that are secure, he would have said so. Paper ballots hand counted is certainly the cheapest option. What ARE the arguments in favor of e-voting? So far I haven't heard any.

[BeFree]

16. Yep, that seems to be what Herrin is saying

The most secure way is hand count.

So at this point, the only option we have is to go back. Keep It Simple, Stupid - KISS. Later, like ten years from now, we could explore using a scan system.

I liked Herrin's question about going up to a screen and telling the person on the other side how to mark your ballot, then walk away hoping all goes well, as an analogy to the electronic voting.

[Amaryllis]

18. One thing that has become glaringly apparent to many of us in the past

ten weeks is the appalling ignorance of many of our elected officials about e-voting and tabulating. You are right; these questions, along with the Myth Breakers, need to be delivered to all of them, and the more times, the better!
There is a lot of other great stuff on Herrin's website. Lots more questions, for one. I couldn't copy them all since they are copyrighted.

[mirrera]

13. Hand counted paper ballots!

I think if we don't push for hand counted paper ballots we will regret it. It would take many people to create the kind of wide spread fraud that we are experiencing. Corporations are getting richer because some one somewhere convinced America that hand counting was less secure. There will always be cheating but what we are experiencing with machines is a complete breakdown. No trust plus no verify. Faith based elections bah humbug!

[marions ghost]

23. Hand counted paper ballots--gotcha

thank you mirrera, befree, amaryllis for your definite opinion on this. OK, I'm clear then, according to Chuck Herrin, there should be no compromise to

"hand-counted paper ballots"

Drawback is that local election officials balk, claiming this is too difficult and time-consuming to organize. especially in large precincts. And of course there's all that expensive equipment to junk. My (un-scientific) guess is they will attach printers to the e-voting machines, to make them generate some kind of tapes. And even if they had a moratorium on touchscreens, wouldn't they cling to the optiscans wherever possible? Just trying to understand what the state officials might say in response to a demand for HCP Ballots. Esp since a lot of them recently got sold a pig-in- a-poke and will feel inclined to defend that rip-off, I mean "purchase."

[BeFree]

24. Yep, it's a problem

We are in a deep hole, indeed.

Besides the official's indignation that we are asking questions, there are the manufacturers blowing smoke up their asses.

It's one reason we must stick to a clear and consistent message: Paper Ballots, hand counted.

Any improvement from 2004 will be good. Letting the system go on it's merry way would be horrific.

We must make them tell us why paper, hand counted, is such a bad idea. I have a feeling they can't come up with anything we can't refute, if we all stick together with a clear and compelling message.

[Amaryllis]

29. If you poke around on his website, he has good counter arguments to

to everything you mention, which are all the classic arguements. See here http://www.chuckherrin.com/hackthevoteFAQ.htm
hack the vote FAQ

[Alizaryn]

9. If we could just make those , blind or

complacent Republicans see that the current system provides for the possibility of "our" out cheating/hacking the repubs. Maybe then they would join for a "majority of the people have spoken" form of government rather then who steal, cheats and manipulates the best; which is where it will lead.

[Wilms]

10. Some Repubs are concerned.

Someone posted a thread referencing a Freeper thread.

The Freepers were wondering if they should hook up with DUers (!) to look into the matter.

I was very impressed.

[MadisonProgressive]

26. Do you have a link?

I don't think I could believe it unless I saw it with my own eyes! :wow:

[Wilms]

31. Here are some freerep pages

I didn't search out the DU thread (or actually read much of the below) but hear freeps weep, (too).

<http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1319763/posts>

<http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a370cd2921b85.htm>

<http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a370cdeb03e6c.htm>

[Amaryllis]

32. Unbelievable! They are just as convinced dems are rigging elections as

dems are that repubs are rigging them.

I've never been over there before. THey are vicious. Do Du'ers get that vicious and I am just not seeing it? Of course, Faux is pretty vicious and if they watch that, they'd think awful things about dems.

I would sure like to see this treated as an American issue rather than a dem or repub issue, which is what Herrin is advocating.

[EuroObserver]

46. Actually, this is an international issue.

Paper ballots, tansparent boxes, hand-counted, plenty of observers: only way to go.

I'd suggest separate voting days on (relatively) minor issues, local offices, "ballot initiatives" and such, too.

And vote on non-working days, of course.

[Amaryllis]

34. I just read this article and it's actually pretty good. They quote Ronnie

Dugger!

"Pandora's Black Box: Did it Really Count Your Vote?"
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a370cd2921b85.htm

Then one of them posts:
So this explains that while I know of absolutely no one who voted for Bill Clinton (and I asked a large sampling of people after the election), Clinton still managed to get elected.

This article is encouraging. If they start demanding reform of the repub officials, that will sure help.

[Amaryllis]

30. See justice4all's post # 21 regarding this. Great talking points for

"getting them to see".

[bush_is_wacko]

12. This is my all-time favorite...

<<snip>>
"Would voters support a system where they walked into a closet, whispered their vote through a curtain, and walked away, hoping for the best? Please compare and contrast this with e-voting using DREs."
<<end snip>>

Catholics all over the world will tell you THIS should be reserved for the confessional NOT voting! Oh, and BTW, after belonging to the same church for 5,10,20 years or more, THIS isn't very anonymous either!

I think we should contact this guy! In fact, Andy NEEDS this guy. He could probably find the smoking gun in NO TIME! Is there an email or something on his site?

[Amaryllis]

19. Yes, he has a page where you can contact him. I sent him an email and

asked if he'd been in touch with Conyers and asked him to do so if he hasn't. Tuesday I will call Conyers' office and talk to his staff. Do you know how to reach Andy?

[Amaryllis]

25. He has been in touch with Andy . There is a link to this DU thread posted

on his website! From Nov. 14; it only got six hits!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x3572

[bush_is_wacko]

36. Somehow the information always gets right to where it needs to go.

I'm sure Andy and this guy are on it! Thanks for letting me know!

[starmaker]

15. kick to a fellow tarheel

and fellow american

[troubleinwinter]

17. Nominated & kick

[GetTheRightVote]

20. I have to say a big thank you to Chuck, I am a programmer as well

A hand counted ballot is the only way we will ever have a fair election in this country. Machines are coded by us, entered into by us, secured by us, we can do anything with them we want, we can even count your votes.

:kick:

[justice4all]

21. another good page on Herrin's site

I followed your link and browsed from there to

http://www.chuckherrin.com/LiberalEmpathy.htm

titled "Empathy Training for Liberals: A Primer on the Conservative Mind, from Inside of One"

It gives some good ideas for how to talk to conservative family/friends about the voting process.

[Amaryllis]

22. WOW! That is incredible! This guy is brilliant and a true patriot in

every sense of the word. There is so much on his website, I hadn't found that page yet. Thanks for the find! And you are right; he really gives some great talking points for talking to everyone, no matter what their party affiliation. I especially liked this, which really makes clear what I have believed all along--that this is an AMERICAN issue, not a Dem or Repub issue:

There appears that there was definitely a grab for power, but it was not the Republicans stealing power from the Democrats. If it happened, then a small group of Republicans stole the power from the American People as a whole.

Yes, it appears that the pieces are in place to steal a great deal of power, but not from the Democrats. It will be (or has been) stolen from ALL of us, and that is what the American people need to know. The great unknown right now is whether we still have enough power left to get it back, and it is critical for the survival of our Country that we do everything possible with the power that we still have within ourselves to try and do so.

Endgame Strategy From a Conservative Pawn:

I know that I’ve just laid a lot on you (sorry), and I don't want to ask too much, so let me just ask you to do this: Take a few minutes, set your personal and political agendas aside and think about where we are as a Country. Research the issues with our Electoral System and based on what you find, decide for yourself if things really have to be this way. For Electronic Voting, keep in mind that responsible engineering doesn't always mean using the latest technology available, it just means using the most appropriate technology available. Sometimes, that's paper. Ask yourself if we can ever come together and really make the world a better place if we keep following the path that we're on. Based on what you find in your research, ask yourself "if our votes haven't been stolen yet, do you have any reason to believe that they won't be?" It's not going to cost you anything, and nobody will think less of you afterward regardless of what you decide, as long as you have an informed opinion. Just stop and think about it for a minute, and then decide what would be the right thing for you to do, not as a Republican, not as a Democrat, but as an American Citizen.

Then, just take the next logical step, and do it.

[Bill Bored]

27. Chuck Herrin is a good man. Good heart. Strong leader.

He's workin' hard. And it's hard work. But he's hard workin' guy. Good Republican.

(I just wanted to translate for any Bushies who might be reading the thread.)

[Amaryllis]

28. I'd read a lot of his stuff on e-voting but the questions for officials

was new to me, as was the Liberal's Guide to Empathy. Those are both wonderfully insightful.

[Bill Bored]

35. He recently spole before the NC legislature.

I haven't read the Liberal piece yet, but the one for the conservatives was excellent.

[Amaryllis]

40. The ones for conservatives? I don't know about that. The text of what

he said when he spoke to the NC legislature is on his website.

[Bill Bored]

43. So is the Compassionate Conservative one. Check it out. n/t

[emlev]

33. Beautiful! n/t

[Wilms]

37. Kick n/t

[sepia_steel]

38. *sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh*

This brightened my day right up. :)

[msongs]

39. TAKE these questions to your local registrar and demand

written answers! Copy the questions from this list, number them, and take a copy to your local voter registrar's office, addressed to the name of the registrar, and demand written answers.

contact your local media and give them the questions and tell them you have submitted them to the registrar. publicity is good.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[Amaryllis]

41. There are a lot more on the website. I couldn't copy them all because it's

copyrighted material.

[vlad]

42. Cost of machines.

I'm not positive on this, but I could swear that counties and officials mostly lease these, not buy them. It's a yearly or every 2 year lease so they can somehow keep bilking everyone. Not positive, don't have time to check that out right now. But I thought I read the word LEASE. So if true, we wasted money, at least 3 bad elections, our country- but perhaps many counties can say- I no longer want to use these machines.. But I'm sure there's a contract w/ alot of fine print.!

[Amaryllis]

44. I have a friend who knows a lot more about al this than I do, and he says

there is a lot of fine print about Diebold and who is responsible for counting votes if Diebold has any machines at all in a state.


What is ironic is that paper ballots hand counted are the least expensive of all voting methods.

[Moderator]

45. Amaryllis

Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
copyrighted news source.


Thank you.


DU Moderator

[Amaryllis]

47. Okay, will do. Thanks for letting me know.