My 80 year old neighbor blew my mind today with this comment about Bush:

[Gloria]

This old codger is a former cattle rancher. I found out he was a Democrat a few months ago and sometimes when I'm walking the dog we stop for a chat as we pass his house.

Today, we were talking about Iraq...(the old guy knows Bush lied, and he's not an internet person, so he could figure it out even from the fawning reporting in the US media); we touched on Iran....he agreed with me that Bush was awful (edited). And then he said:

****Well...I've edited it out because...well. Let's just say he's wondering ... And he sure does see through Bush. And he mused, "And yet, people voted for him."****

(Return to original post)

Holy shit.

Was it safe to post this? I'll delete if you think it's best...

[yardwork]

1. I'm sure it's a violation of DU rules, but the rest of the post is good

Consider editing out the offending sentence and just talk about how your 80 year old neighbor can see right through W's lies.

I've noticed that a lot of people your neighbor's age see right through W. I think it's because they saw fascism the last time it came around.

[liberalhistorian]

8. Then explain why

older people voted more for Bush than they did for Kerry?

[yardwork]

22. I haven't seen a breakdown of how 80 year olds voted, have you?

[bush_is_wacko]

26. Dead on..

"I think it's because they saw fascism the last time it came around."

Not only that most of them remember the allegations against those that were in the Nixon and Ford administrations, and then again in Sr.'s administration!

[Amaryllis]

28. Can you give a clue about the basic idea in the edited out sentence? I

am not following.

[LittleClarkie]

37. There was an old guy watching me deliver a new Kerry/Edwards sign

to his neighbor. We talked. Because of his age and the Red County we were in, I expected a diehard Bush fan. He was far from it. He'd been against the war from the beginning. His neigbors called him unAmerican and said he hadn't deserved to be a Marine. They recently tried to apologize as they were coming to the realization that he was probably right. He told them to go to hell. He won't forget being called unAmerican.

He was an old union guy, and somewhat disgusted with the Union's disorganization during the campaign. He hadn't been able to get a yard sign when he wanted one (common complaint.)

His grandfather, his father, himself and his son had been to war. Now they wanted his grandson he said. When does it end, he asked.

This guy reminds me of the guy I met. Bless their clear eyes.

[hootinholler]

2. That's exactly why.

On Edit: How can we get them to speak out?

-Hoot

[hootinholler]

16. Why do people edit after posts have been answered? N/T

-Hoot

[democracyindanger]

3. Well,

Please do not post messages or jokes that could be construed as advocating harm or death to the president, or that could be construed as advocating violent overthrow of the government of the United States. The Secret Service is not known for its sense of humor

Personally, I don't think your post is that big of a deal, but...who knows?

It's always nice to discover a new political friend though, huh?

[beam me up scottie]

4. He's exactly right.

Why do you think he is surrounded by so many ss guys, won't appear in public unless the crowd is screened and wears bulletproof vests?
IMHO, I think he faces a greater threat from the religious wingnuts that were his "base" than from pissed-off citizens.

[SueZhope]

5. interesting you shared that

My 92 year old mother -in -law today asked me a similar question.

[rox63]

6. Can you put it in nicer terms?

I just came upon this thread, post-edit. So I have no idea what was said. Try some euphemisms, and see if the idea gets across.

[7th_Sephiroth]

9. what they did to kennedy (n/t)

[spooked911]

11. yeah--- it sounds like that. Hmmm.

I'm sure this old guy isn't the only person thinking such a thing.:evilfrown:

[7th_Sephiroth]

12. maybe alot of people are

but its a crime to talk about it

[hootinholler]

14. Huh? Why would talking about Bush following Lincoln's and Kennedy's legacy

Be illegal? Geeze the guy was just wondering why it hadn't happened. It's not like he's out recruiting.

-Hoot

[7th_Sephiroth]

15. Tell that to the SS

Talk leads to thought, wich leads to actions

[hootinholler]

17. Again, what law is restricting our First amendment rights?

-Hoot

[7th_Sephiroth]

18. none

but that wont stop the SS from sending you to gitmo for talking about it, a man got 4 years for a burning bush joke

[genieroze]

24. Isn't there something about a twenty year curse about assination

that seemed to pass *. Maybe because * wasn't really elected in 2000.

[Blue_In_AK]

30. Not necessarily assassination but dying in office

I guess Reagan broke the curse, although he WAS shot at.

[genieroze]

31. Oops typo

assassination, not assination why didn't the spell checker get it? Even though * is the Ass In this Nation.

[Wilms]

13. I had an elderly neighbor that argued some pretty harsh remedy.

But she (yes, she) was an ex-gun toting Ohioan with quite a temper.

Plus she grew up in an age where people wished awful things on Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini...

Uh, oh. There's a pattern. I get it, now. :scared:

[teachermarie]

7. What's that old saying?

"God protects animals and idiots."
(I seem to remember a slightly less politically correct version..)

[spooked911]

10. welcome to DU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:toast: :party: :hi:

[newyawker99]

38. Hi teachermarie!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[DemReadingDU]

19. Interesting thread, have u read the Voice of the White House

http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a1314.htm

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

20. My parents both in their mid 80s detest ** and say that he is

the worst President in their life time. Many of their neighbors and friends feel the same exact way.

[Stevepol]

21. It's good to remind people that Bush's election was virtual not real.

I don't believe any Dem could have been elected in 04, not FDR, not JFK, not Clinton, not any democrat. I think it's good to remind people of this when they wonder how people could have voted for the guy. There will always be people who vote for anybody or anything, but the majority won't vote for somebody like Bush. I think I read that about 11% of Americans don't believe we really went to the moon. It's anybody's guess who that 11% would vote for in an election. Only if the votes are counted by a right wing owned and operated amalgam of corporations intent on bringing the Apocalypse IMO can you get the result we have today in the White House in Congress and everywhere else.

[yardwork]

23. Well, I tend to agree with that

Call me an internet conspiracy theorist (I'm not, or never have been before) but I flat-out don't believe many of the results of this election. I don't believe that W was reelected. I don't believe that several of the Republican senators were elected.

[Amaryllis]

35. It's actually a great opening to talk about election fraud when they

say they don't understand how he got elected.

[NationalEnquirer]

40. Clinton would have won in a landslide.

Clinton would have won by over several percent, a margin too large to overcome by fraud.

I hate to say it, but Clinton really "connected" with voters, far better than Kerry.
I am not a Kerry-basher or anything, its just how I see it.
I think Clinton gets at least 5% more votes than Kerry, and wins it by 6 or 7%.
People, this election was RAZOR THIN!
In wartime, a sitting president is nearly ejected!
A better candidate would have won.

[Bill Bored]

25. Couple of thoughts

People DID vote for him. I don't know how many, but they DID vote for him. Here's how I know, anecdotally of course:

In Oct, I made some calls for Kerry and I found Democrats in Iowa, on the Kerry call list, who were supposed to be Kerry supporters just WAITING to be told what to do to help get out the vote. Most of the time, the campaign had this right. People would try to help if they just got a phone call and it was a great strategy. But there were people in Iowa on the "friendlies" list who were die-hard Bush voters! They were totally brainwashed. They said they had registered as Dems to vote for their friends in the Iowa Caucuses for county seats and that sort of thing. They said their main issues were terrorism and taxes. I tried to explain how Bush got over 3,000 people killed by ignoring the Aug 6, 2001 PDB "Bin Ladin Determined to Strike in US" and they said 9/11 was Bill Clinton's fault! There was NO talking to these people. It was the most frustrating day of the campaign for me, and I was just making phone calls! I can imagine how it must have been on the ground in some of these places. But the point is, people did vote for this guy, against all logic, self interest and especially against the national interest.

And when people say there were Democrats in Ohio making sure the election and the counting was fair, it means nothing to me and it proves nothing.

As far as how older people voted, the national exit poll said 51% Bush/48% Kerry. Go figure.

Is it true that Bush got Canada to stop exporting Rx meds to us on his last trip? Maybe that will wake these people up, if they live long enough without their meds.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

27. People who truly believe 9/11 was Bill Clinton's fault

will believe anything. Yes, they are out there, and they voted for Bush. How sad.

[LibDemAlways]

29. My parents are 82, lifelong Dems who

remember Dems fighting for Social Security and Medicare and the GI Bill after WWII. They simply don't understand how anyone of their generation could support the wingnuts who want to go back to the bad old days of destitute seniors. Oh, and they absolutely hate and despise the chimp and can't understand why anyone would vote for such an obvious dumbass.

[Zan_of_Texas]

32. Yep.

My folks are up there too, in their 80s.

They used to just think Dems are better than Bush, and Bush wasn't all that bad. Now they understand that Bush & his boys (& the occasional Condi) are not just the lesser candidates, but a real danger.

There was some definite movement to the left or to the center among my other relatives in that age group this time -- I know of one, maybe two who voted for Bush in 2000, but voted for Kerry in 2004. Even my most affluent aunt and uncle, Republicans, are starting to have doubts.

[Peace Patriot]

33. I can't tell you how many stories like this I've read or heard...

...of older people and/or Republicans turning against Bush in this election! It's amazing! (Arenbeck in one of his interviews talked about Republican precincts he'd look at, where the votes for Bush didn't add up right--can't remember the evidence--and he thought the BushCons had considered Republican precincts and Republican votes for Kerry as easy pickins, cuz nobody would notice--given the registration.)

Re: the national exit poll of older voters voting 51% for Bush--isn't that quite a bit lower than the usual Republican vote? How does it compare to '00, or other elections?

[madison2000]

34. The "great generation" knows greatness when they see it

and they surely know the opposite. They lived through WWII.

I was amazed when my relatively uneducated 74 year old mother came out and said (shortly after September 11): "They hate our foreign policy in the middle east- that we establish bases and never take our soldiers our for years. That we get involved in other peoples conflicts, usually on the wrong side."

This was in the midst of a news cycle when the media kept saying that "they" hate us for our freedom and our culture.

She also said "In my day, they asked us to sacrifice. Now they're telling everyone to GO SHOPPING".

[davidgmills]

36. Down here in the south

The love this guy. I bite my lip all the time. I can't say a thing or I make enemies every where I turn. My father is Republican (mother deceased she was too), my in-laws are as well, my sister and her husband, my son-in law, my son-in-law's parents, my friends, my white clients, my doctors, my cpa, most of the lawyers I know, nearly all the nurses who work with my wife, my....

W stickers are on every third car. I was delighted it wasn't two out of three.

White men, like me who are democtrats -- we are rare. How miserable can you be?

If the south had anything to do with it, I could believe Bush won.

[NationalEnquirer]

39. Doesnt make much sense since the edit..

I guess your old neighbor doesn't like B*sh much, thats all I get out of it.. too late for the party I guess..
Not all old folks voted for B*sh, many, MANY of them, are very independently minded.
Even, or maybe especially, the old republicans, I'll bet alot of those folks voted against B*sh.
Alot of them are suspicious of the government (think Montana Mountain Man).