Does it bother you that John Kerry is "speaking out"?

[burythehatchet]

Its kind of wierd to me. I enjoy it if he talks policy, but why is he complaining about election fraud? That's just too bizarre for me to understand.

[alexisfree]

1. maybe this is the way he will fight for us?

[tridim]

2. Because there was election fraud and he's upset about it?

:shrug:

[NewYorkerfromMass]

3. bizarre would be

if he said nothing. Think about that.

[Der Blaue Engel]

4. Yeah, it's almost like he's...

DOING WHAT HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO DO.

[mousie]

51. He IS being our President!!!

As much as he can, anyway... he's still here for us, and I sure hope those who have started to turn their backs on him will come around once they get over their disappointment and frustration. We've got a lot more fighting to do, and Kerry is still with us!! :thumbsup:

[ginnyinWI]

75. Shadow President Kerry!

:)

:hi:

[mousie]

87. yep!!!!

Hi there, Ginny! :)

[seito]

52. Nah, that doesn't make any sense to me

:crazy:

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. I hope he does a lot more of it

nothing wrong with him acting like a leader for a change.

[Catamount]

6. Bother me? It thrills me!

He's doing all he can, given the circumstances.

[seabeyond]

7. ya i think people are bothered dems are speaking up

they have been bitching that they havent been. today throughout all the dem senators talking they have hit on about all our issues and are talking about them out loud, and so many on this board is pissed about it. seems silly to me.

talk fraud
talk europe
talk russia
talk iraq
talk s america
talk haiti
talk torture
talk bushco lies

yet when the dem senators do, so many say too little too late, empty words, you disappointed me so i hate you forever and forever i will never forgive you

[Q3JR4]

10. ....

They don't speak up when it really matters. If you pay lip service to an idea but don't fight for that idea to be upheld, then what's the point in talking about it?

[moez]

11. Exactly!

Just wait until it's "safe"...

[seabeyond]

14. safe for friggin what. what makes it safe

are you saying kerry wasnt saying this during campaign. cause you are wrong. i heard all this many times from kerry. didnt run much on msm but i wasnt dependent on msm for my news. they didnt show much of shit of what kerry was saying. kerry during the campaign talk about all this stuff prior. so what are you talking now that it is safe. safe? safe from what?

[seabeyond]

12. so you decide at this moment it really doesnt matter for

these people to speak up. will i suggest that it really does matter right here and now for these people to speak up. i think that all speaking the way they are now is sending a message. they are not going to roll,. they are not gonna listen to the lie and shit and be told to believe it and keep mouth shut. so though you may feel it doesnt matter, i think you are wrong. i think it does matter, as bush is going into the next four years for the dems to stand up and speak out and have little respect for this administration. so i guess it is just a matter of perspective

[burn the bush]

22. yep Kerry is still just campaigning.

He has most likely gotten enough emails to know that his actions pissed us off. So he is sure to mention it now to get us back in his camp. But he really could have changed things if he had had the balls to speak up when it was needed.
I'm glad he is speaking up coz the more crap that comes out, the better, but yeah, I'm still pissed that we put so much work into something that he just tossed aside for his own political gains.
I hope that he is not the best the dems can come up with for 08.

[mousie]

53. with all due respect

Kerry knew unfortunately that we did not yet have what it would take to get bush out of the whitehouse. I believe the man did the best he could with the situation but knew (better than we) what it would take and whether we had the sufficient evidence. However, he has not given up this cause, and it's more important than ever that we resolve this before the next election! He is with us, please don't turn your backs on him. There is no better man than John Kerry and he did the best he could. I believe that with all my being. And I still believe he would be one of the great one's as President of our country, and I'm sure hoping he's running in 2008. I don't see how we could lose, next time around... I really don't!

[ginnyinWI]

71. I don't know why you think that way

Like he didn't work hard on the campaign,just because he didn't win? How about, he worked his heart out for two years, day in and day out. He didn't win because of voter suppression, at the very least. Don't blame the victim--the ones to blame are Bush and Rove and all their lackeys.

[burn the bush]

98. i guess its because he didn't stand up and speak out when we were

trying so very hard to get some attention to the fraudulent elections. He could have made a huge difference, but he chose to protect himself. This is no longer a time when politicians can play politics. The world itself is in grave danger because of the lunatics we have let take over America. And yes, I know he voted against rice today. That does help his credibility with me. I will support him as a senator but not as an 08 candidate.

[seabeyond]

99. how can he, in a responsible manner, say election fraud

when there isnt proof. i cant do it to the people around me. i have said it to three people that i know wont challenge me. any repug in my life i know will challlenge me, i cannot say it. because i cannot win my arguement. now, if i, a mother sittin in the panhandle of texas with no press cannot say it because i will lose the arguement, how can kerry, on national tv say it out loud. he will lose the arguement

he did speak on the suppression ect... we saw at the moment. and has since talk of more that has come to light. i would like to see the dems take responsibility for not seeing this as an issue, for not getting ahead of the eight ball on this, for not doing something earlier

i believe in fraud, whole heartedly, i so bad want it caught and people in jail

[burn the bush]

102. perhaps if he had joined in, we would have been able to look at the

machines. NM is clearing theirs now so that we can't ever get the proof that we need. We were stonewalled in ohio so that it was impossible to get an actual recount or do much else. If Kerry had jumped in wholeheartedly, we could have gotten enough media to have gotten a fair chance to prove our case. He could have done it in a way as to not cry fraud. Instead he chose to let us stand there and fight a brick wall. It was HIS PLACE to lead the charge.

[Mojambo]

8. Of course not

A vocal, visable, and aggressive John Kerry in the US Senate is nothing but good for us.

I won't be supporting any future Presidential aspirations he has, but I very much value his voice in the Senate, particularly if he uses it to slam Bush and the Republicans repeatedly over the next 4 years.

[moez]

9. Yes. It does.

He showed me early on that he was too big of a coward to speak out when it mattered - so, why to jump in now?

[Mojambo]

13. Because we need all the help we can get now

Shunning John Kerry because he failed to live up to your expectations does nothing to help us fight the battles we have ahead.

I don't think it's wise to throw away your political resources out of bitterness.

[moez]

17. If it helps the cause - great....

But, the question was "does it bother me" - and my answer is yes. It bothers me that the man hid under the table when it mattered, that he lied when he said that he would stand in and fight.

So, I'll accept the fact that his late words may be useful. However, I will NEVER again support him in a run for anything.

[livvy]

24. Fine. Then don't.

I do support him, and will offer whatever support I can. I tend to do that when people have the same beliefs that I do, and are willing to work towards achieving common goals.

[SharonRB]

100. Hi, livvy

I'm with you. He still has my support.

[emulatorloo]

38. Bill Frist Bothers Me More -- Don;t worry, Rush will take care of Kerry

You needed expend the effort.

:nopity:

[mousie]

56. Kerry is anything but a coward...

I really don't see that as being the case. I think he was just sensible, much to our disappointment, perhaps... but then again he was being realistic and understood better than any of us the corruption, the legalities... what it would take, what irrefutable proof, to get bush out. He still strongly supports our efforts however, and our fight continues... so please don't turn on the man... we do need his help and his wisdom!

[samfish]

97. Thats the thing, though...

I'm not sure if it matters whether or not Kerry had more knowledge at his disposal. The fact of the matter is, he stood by for the sake of his carrear when the bullets really started to fly. That was point where he could've done the most damage, even if it wouldn't have won.
At least if Kerry had said or done SOMETHING when it was most needed, people would actually be aware of this stuff and take it seriously.

Now, though, the Republican Propaganda Machine is as strong as ever and ready to rock another day.

[LittleClarkie]

104. Does it matter now?

If so, your hypothesis is sort of blown, isn't it?

[jsascj]

15. I'm thinking....

Okay, now it's over. I'm not going to be president so I'll be the prosecutor.

Now comes the investigation

[emulatorloo]

39. B.I.N.G.O. EOM

[Raksha]

55. President or prosecutor? I believe he made that choice months ago.

I have no real reason to believe it, just what I can infer from his actions. I believe that at some point Kerry made a choice: whether to fight for the presidency, or work to expose and bring down the Bush administration. I don't know why he couldn't do both, but I think that when it came down to either/or, he decided to devote his energies to bringing down the BFEE...as I would have done also.

[zann725]

107. Good point. I'd not thought of it that way before. If that's true,

then Kerry MAY have chosen the Prosecutor role so he could have "both" eventually. Cheney's Haliburton already has RICO charges raised against it right? Kerry couldn't do it alone...with THIS court system.

But I believe something is STILL 'do-able" in International Courts with War Crime charges. The point most people have not discussed here is that prior Atty. Gen., Ramsey Clark has gone to work on the Saddam trial, and War Crime charges. Investigating that, of course opens discovery on Saddam's opponent, Shrub. Ramsey's tenacious, and has had his sights set on Presidential Impeachment for some time now. This thing may open this up SOONER than we think, with International help.

[LittleClarkie]

108. Nixon 1960

"I concede for the good of the nation."

Let the investigations begin.

[New Earth]

16. yes it bothers me!

it's an outrage!!!





















:eyes: :hi:

[MissWaverly]

18. Lighten up!

Listen, I have really good feelings about this, I think that Kerry is going about it the right way, I sent $200.00 to have the vote recounted, I wrote my senators, etc. but I think that there is a good chance that Kerry has documentation that is going to blow the lid off GWB and Co. misdeeds big time.

[New Earth]

20. huh?

you must be new! i LOVE Kerry and I'm being sarcastic :hi: you'll learn that :)

welceome to DU :toast:

[seabeyond]

21. bah hahahahah faye, lol lol n/t

[clovis29]

90. I know how much you have supported Kerry

I have great admiration for your constancy.

[sandnsea]

19. Election reform

Obviously the election was full of problems. Nobody ever denied that. It was the fraud, fraud, fraud, that made it difficult for him to fully enter the fray. There's NO PROOF that any individual or group of individuals did anything with the specific intent to commit election fraud. Now that everybody can turn their attention to election reform, he can jump in with both feet. Otherwise it would have been completely ignored as sour grapes like it was after 2000. For the long run, this was the right way to go because now we will get the reforms we need.

[geomon666]

27. lol

Now we will get the reforms we need?

Forgive me if I don't hold my breath.

[sandnsea]

28. Please hold your breath

Over there in the corner, so the rest of us can get this shit fixed.

[geomon666]

29. You're not going to get anything fixed.

You mean like how it was fixed after 2000? Is that what you're going to do? Please lay it out for me how the Dems are going to fix all of this for us. I'm begging you. Show me how a single Dem in Congress is going to write up a piece of legislation and fix all of the problems. Please.

[seabeyond]

30. i am just amazed at the number of posters today

that sole purpose is to dismiss the senators today. and what they are saying.

i am just awestruck at how many posters there are on this dem board that only wants to diss kerry diss democrats.

what board am i on. gonna see if i am on the right site. each and every post where someone is talking positive, there is another post to dismiss any hope

big thumbs up. lets all be losers

[geomon666]

35. Don't get me wrong.

I'm not dismissing what they are saying. I think it's good they're saying something. But, they talked a lot on the 6th too but they didn't put their money where their mouths were save one. And that's been the case for far too long and now you want me to believe, that suddenly, miraculously they are going to do something about voter fraud. First of all they can't cause the murderers in office won't let them. Secondly I don't think they will anyway even if they could. Why? Because they could've done something about it before and they didn't. I don't see them changing at all.

[New Earth]

37. no offense but

it's not voter fraud, it's election fraud.

[geomon666]

42. None taken

My mistake.

[mousie]

57. republican invasion? n/t

[seabeyond]

59. sure does feel like it and i have

been working ass off all day, and what happened to all the people that arent of that persuassion. feeling kinda alone here. probably everyone else is cooking dinner. oh no, my kids arent eating, bah hahahahah

did see you in another post, thanks mouse, you have me gigglin

[mousie]

62. if they are repubs...

it only shows us how "threatened" they feel... that they come here as imposters and try to spew anti-Kerry propaganda! I think repubs really DO feel quite threatened by the man. That's a good sign, actually. Repubs still can't seem to forget Kerry!

[seabeyond]

64. i was surprised. i spent a couple days on a conservative board

and they have a whole room for du. they bring things we say over there and they diss us. that is all. they make it sound like it is becasue they have been kicked off, and they want to participate, but not allowed., but all the time is to take our words, our thoughts and to ridicule. it is the silliest excercise. i dont really get it. kinda sad in a lot of ways. then they can create us however and there wont be anyone to interact with and maybe show they may not know what they are talking about.

someone said something about limbaugh dissing this board today. probably has something to do with it

oh and this board. how to be a mole. all about how to come on here and fool us. i mean, so childlike in behavior. why do they care

[mousie]

67. yep...

seems to be what they thrive on, poking at the dems/libs all the time, bashing Kerry... and then they chat amongst each other about us. I just see it as their game, they aren't really chatting but trying to influence with these phoney conversations and ridiculing... Well, the more I hang around on forums, the more I really, really dislike republicans!! Yes, it is very childish. I guess that's what they have though... and how to steal an election! But hopefully that's the end of that now too, right? Oh sheesh, now here I am acting like them, talking about repubs! :D

[ginnyinWI]

74. yeah it kinda smells in here

if Kerry says nothing, he's bad. if Kerry speaks up, he's bad. What's up with that?

How about Bush? Is he bad? Is Condi bad? Who did you guys vote for, anyway?

[geomon666]

78. I don't see anyone calling Kerry Bad

Just too little too late.

[catgirl]

103. Too late for YOU perhaps!

Yes, we should all go in a hole and die.

There is a new movement happening and Kerry and Boxer are
leading it. Osama's there already. Sorry to disappoint any
Freeps here, but it's not going away. The gloves are out.
Put 'em up.

[New Earth]

32. here's a hint

if anyone has completely given up all hope on the party, why don't you just leave the party? wouldn't you rather try to make a change? i really don't understand where people are coming from with comments like yours.

[geomon666]

40. I'm not a member of the party.

I registered unaffiliated because, this disease of apathy and complacency has been going on for quite awhile and I was lucky enough to see it. But if I was a Dem, I would be for trying to change it. But that takes time. Time none of us have. In 2006, the thugs will have a filibuster proof majority and thus ends the great experiment. Change is going to have to come drastically, not gradually.

[sandnsea]

61. "not a member of the party"

Then go work with your own party to make change. I guarantee you, you can't make change sitting on the outside and screaming. May as well go back to that corner and hold your breath. Be just as effective.

[geomon666]

68. I don't have a party.

Why don't you join me in that corner? Once again, where is the change going to come from? You? Are you a member of Congress? Are you a State elected official? If no, you might as well join me in the corner because the change isn't going to come any time soon. And that's what matters. We need change now, not later.

[sandnsea]

83. I do have a party

I work with them in several ways. Maybe working together is why Oregon didn't lose any of our Dem or Nader voters from 2000. Maybe that's why we've got an election system without rampant fraud. Maybe that's why we were the only state to push for open source machine software. We didn't win, but we pushed for it and won't stop. We've got a strong Green Party too, which I fully support. Unified voices matter. Pick a group of people and work with them. Nothing will get done otherwise.

[geomon666]

86. Well that's great.

Didn't you ban gays from marrying though? I don't really remember. But I agree with you, working together is the way to go. The problem is, you can't work with the Dem leaders. They're bought and paid for already.

[sandnsea]

89. And went to court the next day

We didn't fight gay marriage this election, not like we've fought gay issues in the past and won every time. We focused on the election. Now we'll fight the gay marriage amendment in court.

Don't want to be a Dem, be a Green. Go work FOR something for a change. See what real work is like. Sitting around, pissing and moaning from the sidelines is easy. Making your case to people, who often have good arguments you hadn't thought of, is much much harder.

[geomon666]

91. Good luck with that, seriously.

No I don't want to be a Dem and I'd rather be a eunuch than a Green. There really is no party out there for me to be a part of, unfortunately but that's not the point. See what real work is like? I hope you're not intoning that I don't know what real work is like since I'm from a working class background. And I have yet to see a good argument defending election fraud. All I've heard is dismissive nonsense from the right.

[sandnsea]

94. Oh I see

Maybe you're a Libertarian?

I was not implying anything about your work in your daily life, just that getting things done politically requires more than whining and complaining. Alot of people are great at that and not much else.

"a good argument defending election fraud"

Not sure what you mean there.

[borg5575]

41. Amen

Amen. This bunch in control of the party have got to go. We are the ones who put up the money last time and it's time that we take our party back. We need to get rid of all of these DLC Republican wannabes and turn into a real party again that stands for something.

[seabeyond]

44. did you just listen to boxer, or are you just mouthing n/t

[geomon666]

45. Boxer and the House 31 are the only ones left with any real fight in them.

"I object to all of the election fraud that went on in Ohio but I will certify the election anyway." One by one I heard pretty little speeches just like that on the House and Senate floor. Even Barack Obama, who everyone fell in love with during the convention (rightly so) fell in line with the party. The one desenting vote was cast by a woman. The same woman calling Rice out on being a hitler youth and Biden tells her to go easy. He must really like her too.

[seabeyond]

46. i see your position, stand strong

regardless if it hurts the future accomplishments we need to have. hey, i was the fgirst on this board, with just a few others on election night yelling election fraud. i am passionate as anyone on the subject, i can see the bigger picture too. i want more done also

[borg5575]

101. Yes, I heard

Oh, I heard Boxer and I admire her. But she is in the minority in the party now. Only she and Kerry voted against Rice earlier today. All of the the other so-called Democrats voted for Rice. I stand by what I said. We really do need to take back our party before it's too late and there is no Democratic party left and we have a one party Republican dictatorship.

[meganmonkey]

50. edit ed after reading further on the thread

sorry - i reacted too quick - my bad

[livvy]

60. You're right. We're doomed!

So we may just as well just lay down right now and adjust. How stupid of any of us to think that we could possibly make a difference. I am ashamed of my own stupidity. I realize now, because things weren't corrected after 2000, that there is no purpose in pursuing this any further. I think we should all write our Democratic members of Congress and tell them to hand over the keys and get the hell out of Dodge.

:crazy:

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pirate Smile]

25. I'm thrilled. I think it is odd to not want him to speak out about it.

[seabeyond]

26. i do too, i think this whole day

listening to so many diss kerry today, is odd

[understandinglife]

31. NO (n/t)

[garybeck]

33. because he's a sore loser

sorry, I just had to say that ;)

to answer your question, it's great that he's talking about it now, but it doesn't make up for the fact that he did nothing until now.

[burythehatchet]

69. I think my point was lost on most of the respondants

Election fraud is an issue he has already decided not to prosecute, attack the assholes on policy, but he forfeited his say on the fraud issue, that's all I'm saying. Jeez, people are just a bit touchy on this it seems.

[angrydemocrat]

80. KERRY! KERRY! KERRY! KERRY!

http://209.150.59.148:8080/dontphoto/herbert/image/image6.jpg

[anaxarchos]

34. Congress is in session...

he is a Senator, it's his job to talk. Why weird?

The only one weird is Frist. It's weird he can talk at all....

[corbett]

36. His Only Chance In 2008

The formula is very simple:

1) He knew that he could have fought the 2004 results but it would have been a long slog and he didn't want a repeat of the constitutional crisis of 2000 because it would be bad for the country. This was a terrible decision on his part but an honest one.

2) He knows that his vast network of grass roots support can help him win in 2008 but he has to start now.

3) Unless REAL election reform is instituted right away, 2006 will be a DISASTER for the country; and

4) The only way to force through real election reform is with a mountain of support from the voting public. Otherwise, Frist and Hastert won't allow it to come for a vote.

[emulatorloo]

43. Bill Frist and Dennis Hastert bother me more

EOM

[anaxarchos]

47. It's funny we both thought of Frist...

See #34 above. I thought it was just me.

[Hugin]

48. I love it... Plain and simple. n/t

[IndyPriest]

49. Yes! Why can't he just "burythehatchet" and move on??

Everyone else has, right?

[seito]

54. Know the enemy

I wonder who "it" could be...:think:.....wait a sec, don't tell me....

[alexisfree]

58. kerry....

[Blue Shark]

63. John (Howdy reporting for Duty) Kerry

Is amazingly tone-deaf in regards to the 59 million of us he promised to fight for.

He is so YESTERDAY'S bad news.

[seabeyond]

65. your opinion. this is so old

same message over and over by certain people. tis done. you can quit dissing kerry for a while. have dinner

[catgirl]

105. Shark attack!

Beware. Best way to fight back: don't let the repugs get away
with any more sh*t. Question their sleazy actions. Fix the
catastrophies they've created. Take back the media.

Those sharks will go away.

[darkworkz]

66. The real question on Kerry.

If he has a vote on Condo's confirmation, which way will his finger go? When he answers this, you'll all know where he really stands.

Just the facts.

[pacalo]

70. I don't get it...

1. Why would it bother me that Kerry is "speaking out"???

2. Why do you think it's *bizarre* that he is "complaining about election fraud", considering there was election fraud?

3. If you're so dismissive of election fraud, what brings you to this discussion topic?

[burythehatchet]

72. I want to compliment you on your mind reading abilities Kreskin

read the frickin post

[New Earth]

73. i read it

and i honestly don't understand your point :shrug:

[burythehatchet]

76. OK my bad

When the case for election fraud was in front of the "grand jury" Kerry decided NOT to prosecute the case...others did.

He won. I know that. So why not prosecute his case? But that's a dead horse. Since he didn't hit it when he had the chance, whatever the reason, he needs to move on to attacking bush.

[angrydemocrat]

77. Hell Faye You Know They Have To Have Something To....

Piss, scream, and whine about! Just remember it only there opinion. And "opinions are like assholes everybody has one" and their's is as useless as tits on a boar hog.

[geomon666]

79. Oh I guess your s*** doesn't stink. Is that your point?

Do you even have one? Aren't you just pissing and moaning and whining? "Stop beating on Kerry he's fighting for us!" Yeah, after everyone has already gone home and the arena is closed. He's standing in an empty ring. You go cheer him on, hero.

[angrydemocrat]

81. KERRY! KERRY! KERRY! KERRY!

http://209.150.59.148:8080/dontphoto/herbert/image/image6.jpg

[geomon666]

82. That's what I figured.

A non response. Just like his hero.

[HEAVYHEART]

84. Here is a better picture

[pacalo]

96. I think 666 may prefer this one...

[lavendermist]

85. Oh sure it does.....NOT

:eyes:

[BigBearJohn]

88. I'm grateful to have a man of Kerry's stature on my side.

[Carolab]

92. Hell, no. If anyone should complain about it, he should.

And it's about time, too.

[DearAbby]

93. Is this the Woe is me...Kerry Pity Party?

What have I missed? :crazy:

[Carolab]

95. You got me.

:shrug:

[catgirl]

106. Angry repugs letting off steam

kind of like wife beating after their team lost.

[Laurab]

109. Bothers the hell out of me - it might be effective or something

I mean, with his large grassroots following, his prosecutor background, his fact-finding trip and all, he might just make some changes. Major changes, even. I mean, the fact that he found out * had turned down offers of help from other countries - damn why'd he have to find that out? Seems kind of important to me. Who knows what he might have found out during the campaign and after, the nosy SOB? Maybe not enough to challenge, but maybe enough to bring FACTS to the table? Who wants intelligent fighting against the shrubass regime anyway?

Why use his voice now to effect change for the good? Why can't he just "get over it" the "sore loser"? ok <sarcasm off>

I think the guy is going to play a part in causing some major damage to chimpy's regime, and I'm looking forward to it. If it bothers you that he's speaking out, perhaps you really don't want what's best for the country, but instead, you wanted him to do what you wanted, WHEN you wanted, no matter that it probably would have backfired on him, us, and the entire party. Or, perhaps that's what you wanted to happen, I can't quite figure it out.