Join me! Spread the usage of the correct term: ELECTION FRAUD

[New Earth]

My god, I know it sounds like a nuisance and I sound like a broken record. And while some disagree and think it's not that big of a deal, well, I think they are wrong.

I just visited yet another site that likes to refer to the issue as simply 'voter fraud'. Someone might as well have scraped a chalkboard with a car key while I was in the room.

Please please please, for those who do understand why this is important: correct people, blogs, websites, message boards, etc. when you see them use 'voter fraud' or 'vote fraud' as the BROAD term in covering the fraud in this election.

Of course, if someone is directly referring to a fraudulent voter, such as fake registrations, double voting, etc., then that is a different story.

But I am SICK SICK SICK of hearing people use these terms to refer to the issue in general. I just wrote to this site trying to get them to fix their page:

Hi. On your page here http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/election_2004.html you refer to the issue as 'voter fraud', when it should be 'election fraud'. Other than the very few cases where the fraud actually came from the voter, the large majority of the fraud came from voting machines, central tabulators, and touchscreens - where the MACHINES and VOTE MACHINE COMPANIES are the ones repsonsible for the fraud.

When one uses the term 'voter fraud' or 'vote fraud', it will cause a lot of readers to think the fraud is all the fault of the voters, and that is very misleading. When used as a general term - referring to the broad scale of fraud, I and others have been asking those who cover this issue to please use the more honest, broad term: ELECTION FRAUD. The election was fraudulent, not the voter.

Thank you, I hope you consider my feedback and change the information on your page.


Faye ****
New Jersey

Anyone who has time and gets possibly as frustrated as I do, please join me in this - and post what you find here so either I or someone else can write and correct them.

Yes, they are only words, but in situations like these, word usage means everything. I guess it is all about semantics, especially when speaking on an issue that requires the attention of every citizen and every voter in the country.

Thanks for listening to my rant, and please help if you can.

[Merlot]

1. Good point: The election was fraudulent, not the voter.

It also casts doubt on w's "election."

[rigel99]

2. ELECTION RAPE

that seems to get their attention..

the same way at the counter-inauguration protest, the phrase "Do good christians murder?" Seemed to really piss off the self-righteous walking furs...

my friend gloria had the best of all way to piss off a republican...

"I pray that god forgives you for murdering innocent iraqi children"

gets them everytime!

[New Earth]

3. ha

it's effective but just a little to extreme.

[rigel99]

5. ELECTION HEAVY PETTING..

there , sound better...

how about DIEBOLD MASTURBATION.. whatever it takes to get these bastards to listen to us... he hee...

[rigel99]

7. It casts an anvil

on w*'s 2nd loss in a row....

it felt good to tell a republican today,

* didn't win the first time, but he ***really lost the 2nd time because with all the vote rigging he still only squeaked by... how sad is that! and it got some neck hairs raised...

[sparky_in_ma]

4. Election Fraud it is

I've never seen you post on this topic before.;-)

[New Earth]

6. you better be winking an eye

i've only said it 97981789478901789470 times and have it plastered in my sig :P

[Wilms]

8. Let the worg ring forth...again.

But I think it's working. I have noticed, also, the correct term.

Even Ted Koeppel got it right.

[EFerrari]

9. Faye, you couldn't be more right.

Words MATTER. Rounding up words and feeding them to the public is HOW the wingnuts got a foothold.

Now, can I ask for something? I'm in CA. Our Sec of State decertified Diebold. And they're trying to smear him out of office. We need HELP.

I don't know if the guy is clean but I know this. The rumors are just rumors but he was the first one to take a stand against the machines.

Can anyone help? He's on the ropes.

And isn't that what we've been asking for? Someone with the courage to stand up to Republican machines giving Republican results for Republican candidates?

Thanks in advance,
Beth

[electropop]

21. As always Faye, you are absolutely right

We need to frame many debates in OUR terms. The one I keep thinking on lately is the Social Security plot.

We need to erase the "personal accounts" BS and replace it with "Corporatizing Social Security".

[Amaryllis]

27. I believe he is clean and they are smearing him; I've been following what

he's done with Diebold for some time. But we need to know what those of us who are not his constituents can do to help,

[Amaryllis]

28. Have you seen these threads on Shelley?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss//duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=302899&mesg_id=302899

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss//duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=306037&mesg_id=306037

[smartvoter]

10. I'm in. nt

[understandinglife]

11. Doing it everywhere I post. And, in case anyone wants .....

....to reflect on the consequences of not one, but two, of OUR FAILED, INVALID, CORRUPT AMERICAN ELECTION SYSTEM, then do so while taking a look at the following:

http://www.zonaeuropa.com/01467.htm

I've altered the title to read "an enduring american legacy: The Children of Iraq."

Peace.

BE THE BUSH OPPOSITION; 24/7 -- ANYONE GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT NOW.........:grr:

[New Earth]

12. please also read this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x306119

Let's beat Rove at his game. Haha.

[RaulVB]

13. ELECTION FRAUD!

The voters are honest.

[New Earth]

14. most of them, anyway

[RaulVB]

15. Yep, the large MAJORITY OF THEM (n/t)

[New Earth]

16. p00p

[demodonkey]

17. Here's another one -- VOTER VERIFIED PAPER BALLOT.

Remember it is BALLOT. Not trail.

A "trail" has NO LEGAL DEFINITION AND NO LEGAL STANDING.

Only a BALLOT can be counted as a vote.

Only a BALLOT can be recounted.

Please -- everybody get on the same page with this -- learn this, exactly as it is here, this is important! If we ask for ANYthing else, we may be opening the door to a whole kettle of other problems, bad voting systems, and the same or worse mess than we have now.

Please -- VOTER VERIFIED PAPER BALLOTS.

[rigel99]

18. Voter Transported, Voter Secured, Voter Counted, Paper Ballot

So we don't lose the 'unbroken chain of custody'
and prevent South GA Sheriff's from unlocking the ballot box and stuffing 'their candidate's ballots in' while no one is looking
let's be even more clear

VOTER TRANSPORTED
VOTER SECURED
VOTER COUNTED

Paper ballot...

just to be safe , so everyone is certain what needs to happen.

[dzika]

19. ELECTION FRAUD! - Do these ballots look secure?

I can't imagine there would be a chain of custody problem with ballots sitting in an unlocked building, in an unlocked fileroom, in the middle of the night where people could just walk in right off the street and take pictures...

[rigel99]

22. THIS Photo is great..

have you considered filing suit in the location where this picture was taken, there has to be some election code violated? if this is in OH you should contact CASEOhio who are litigating the whole mess...

[keepthemhonest]

20. It is ok to keep saying it Faye

because there may have been people who did not hear it yet.Plus I am the type that needs to hear things multiple times before it finallly sticks. Some people only need to hear stuff once, I wish I was like that.

Keep educating!

[NationalEnquirer]

23. GREAT POINT FAYE!

They will say "voter fraud" to try to blame US!
Its "ELECTION FRAUD STUPID!".
Speaking of which, where is James Carville?
Where are ANY of Clinton's gang?
My brother, a repuke, claims that if there IS fraud, that the Clintons were in on it.. hmmm..

[kerstin]

25. Now Clinton's getting blamed for a Republican-stolen election?

This is taking Republican-based Clinton-blaming to new levels.

[NationalEnquirer]

31. Hah! yeah they really hated Clinton

But he claims Hillary and friends might have been behind the whole "DNC Debacle" in this election.

[New Earth]

24. can anyone help me with this site?

i am determined to get this to work. anyone who has free time, can you please email the contact on this site and ask them to change their headline?

you can email them here: [e-mail]

you can even copy and paste my letter if you want. I am determined to see it changed. Thank you!

[New Earth]

26. look guys! it worked!!!!

i got a reply:

Jesse
to me
Show options 9:50am (12 hours ago)
Great point! I'll correct this as soon as I can.
Thank you!!!!

Peace,
Jesse


now just gotta keep checking to see if he actually does it....

[feelthebreeze]

29. Keep banging the drum Faye!

You changed my usage and yes shared language is critical to this movement. We create the terms, we own the terms.

The winds of change are blowing...do you feel the breeze?

[New Earth]

30. don't just feel the breeze

BE the wind! :hug: :hi:

[Andy_Stephenson]

32. Faye...

I need you to call me.

You have my number right?

[New Earth]

33. yes i do. are you still around?

i can call you after i get some coffee and wake up.

You're not gonna yell at me for telling people to say election fraud instead of voter fraud are you? :scared:

[Andy_Stephenson]

35. Now why...

would I ever yell at you?

:shrug:

[New Earth]

36. lol heheheh

i was just goofing off like usual. i'll call you soon. :D

[Laura PourMeADrink]

34. Faye, I agree, but I bet there was some element of voter fraud

as well. Like I suspect there were people who voted absentee and at the polls. What do we call those schmucks?

[New Earth]

37. of course there might have been

but the general term is election fraud - which covers ALL of it. just saying 'voter fraud' all the time implies that it's only the VOTERS committing the fraud and it's just not true.

if you are referrinig to ACTUAL voter fraud, then of course you would say voter fraud.

the people on this board should know, of all people, how just WORDS can affect people's minds. we just need to make sure we use the corrrect broad term.

#*@#^*(@^#*@ :D i think i'm gonna start having nightmares about this soon :scared:

[bleever]

38. Faye: is it OK if we use the -ing form, and say Voting Fraud?

Just Kidding!!!

We love you Faye.

:hi:

[New Earth]

39. NO

x(

[smartvoter]

40. How about a Bush version: Votist Fraud? nt

[Laura PourMeADrink]

41. Love it! Or how about Mandatists. Faye, thanks! I understood

what you meant and I agree 100%

[New Earth]

42. Fraudulent Votery!!!!

I think we have fine votery. nope, no problems here!!!

[Miami Liberal]

43. Great idea!

Election Fraud it is.

[yurbud]

44. vote rigging might be even more illustrative

and good old fashioned voter intimidation.

[New Earth]

45. no

it shouldn't even mention the word vote. to people who are not aware of the issues, hearing the word 'vote' can imply the voter is at fault. which is true in SOME cases, but NOT as a general whole.

that is the point, we cannot use the word 'vote' when talking of the entire spectrum of fraud. 'vote rigging' can still imply the VOTER rigged their vote, or rigged something.

The election was fraudulent, NOT the voters.

on the other hand, there is no other way to say 'voter intimidation'. that is an issue that is PART of Election Fraud.

[yurbud]

50. then just put "GOP" in front of anything that would otherwise imply voter

[veracity]

46. other side of the argument: ... it's voter fraud

The fraud was perpertrated on the voter. That makes it voter fraud. Just as we refer to consumer fraud when comsumers are victimized by fraudulent practices. The semantics are irrelevant. Voters are participants in elections. If there was fraud, the voter was victimized and the election was invalid.

I'm not sure why the concern over semantics, when the intent of the phrase is clear. So much more to be converned about!

Reminder: if you missed it, to send to anyone who still supports the ar against Iraq....which is more relevant than the election which is over and done with.....fraud or none.

http://www.tvnewslies.org/JOIN_UP2.pdf

[New Earth]

47. PLEASE READ THIS

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x309442

AND WE SHOULD ALL BE CONCERNED ABOUT IT. SEMANTICS MEAN EVERYTHING IN SITUATIONS LIKE THESE UNLESS YOU HAVEN'T BEEN PAYING ATTENTION THE PAST 4 YEARS TO OUR GOVERNMENT AND MEDIA (and the sleeping sheep of America) :hi:

[New Earth]

48. the election is not over and done with.

well maybe the election, but not the investigations.


and if you think they are why are you posting in this forum?

[babsbunny]

52. AMEN!

I COULD LISTEN TO YOU FOR HOURS!:yourock:

[New Earth]

49. more

Why am I going out of my mind trying to get this across to people? I need to break it down so more will understand.

Voter fraud, vote fraud, voter intimidation, voter suppression, registration fraud, inadequate amount of voting machines or equipment, recount fraud, recount tampering, vote rigging, etc., etc., etc.

These are all individual isses that fall under the BROAD GENERAL TERM, ELECTION FRAUD.

[bush_is_wacko]

51. After all you have done I can't believe people are STILL making this

mistake! I haven't noticed the term myself but I will continue to look for those that are not using the correct grammar! LOL

Faye your energy is boundless!

:yourock:

[New Earth]

53. GRRR WTF

he still didn't change it. he did reply to my email but still didn't change it on his page.

i will assume if it never changes, that site is right-wing in disquise :tinfoilhat:

[tandem5]

54. so... voter fraud, election fraud - what's the difference??!

joking (please don't hurt me)

[New Earth]

55. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[New Earth]

56. WOOT! THEY CHANGED IT!!!!!

i got this one changed too!!!! the link in this original post, it used to say 'voter fraud' on the page, and i got them to change it to Election Fraud. i just checked up on it today and noticed it's finally been changed.

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/election_2004.html

[Fly by night]

57. Election theft

Jus' playin' wit' chu.

[prairierose]

58. Keep saying it Faye......

words have meaning and they have power.

Voter fraud implies that the voters did something wrong.

Election fraud correctly implies that there was fraud in the election process. We, in this forum pretty much know that there were many types of fraudulent and illegal activities that affected the outcome of the election.

Every time someone on our side uses the phrase "voter fraud" or even "vote fraud" they open the door for the other side to talk about the few instances of misguided dems who participated in some form of abuse of the system and conflate that with the egregious number of fraudulent activities on the "winning" side.