Decertify Diebold - lose your job to an election rigger

[genius]

That is the message of what is happening to Kevin Shelley. Shelley required counties that were re-certified to have paper ballots available in 04 and is requiring a voter verifiable paper trail in 06. But to get revenge, the Republicans are accusing him of ethics charges. Even, if true, it's for stuff Republicans and other officials do all the time. He supposedly used a HAVA worker to deliver some stuff that was not related to HAVA. However there is no proof of their charges as of yet. Democratic clubs are passing resolutions calling the accusations partisan and asking Shelley to stay but the Democratic State Senate Majority Leader is calling for his resignation. Arnold gets to appoint the replacement and he has a sudden faith in getting the voters to vote on all the bad stuff the legislature is saying "no" to. It has been proven that Arnold was involved in the Enron phony energy crisis in CA. Arnold is one of Bush's neo-fascist workers and this who thing is undoubtedly about turning California red. Arnold wants to do Texas-style redistricting in CA to turn the CA delegation Republican. He also has other nasty stuff that he's trying to push through the voters. Wherever you are in this country, please pass resolutions in support of Shelley and call him to encourage him to stay. Otherwise expect California-gate in 06 and 08.

[Dookus]

1. maybe it has something to do

with the sexual harassment, hostile work environment and illegal hiring of cronies?

[EC]

5. Yeah, they are trying to get the Illinois governor

on same shit...and I wonder how this is different than the Cabinet * is appointing, isn't that cronyism?

[Zan_of_Texas]

25. California is the largest basket of electoral votes in the nation.

By far -- almost twice as many as the next biggest state.

It would be a juicy target for the Rs.

Shelley is the domino they need. Knock him out, and put a Katherine Harris or Kenneth Blackwell in, and bingo, the state will "vote" Republican.

Just like it "voted" for Arnold in the recall -- which was in all likelihood highly tainted, especially in the most liberal areas like Alameda.


These neocons don't think small. Sometimes they warm up small, and work up to bigger targets. Afghanistan. Haiti. Iraq. Syria. Iran. etc. etc.

Texas. Florida. Georgia. Ohio. California. Illinois too?

[EFerrari]

8. Have a link to the decision in this case? n/t

[genius]

11. There are just a bunch of baseless allegations against Shelley.

There is no case decision. The Republicans have been getting every accusation they can into the media, which only prints anti-Democratic propaganda.

[EFerrari]

14. Exactly my point. n/t

[Dookus]

20. but how do you kinow they're

baseless? Because he decertified Diebold machines, he's incapable of being an ass in other areas?

Two people in his office have filed sexual harassment claims. It seems indisputable that he's hired political cronies. His spending of election reform money is being investigated.

I'm not insisting the charges are all true, but I certainly don't think he's beyond reproach because of his stance on Diebold.

[Dookus]

18. well

there is no "decision" because there's been no official hearing or trial. But a State Board of Personnel report slammed him pretty hard this week.

[genius]

9. Yeh right? I don't believe that Shelley is involved in any of that.

[anamandujano]

16. Well, Tom Delay isn't doing too badly.

Ethics violations preventing one from serving one's country are a thing of the past.

[Dookus]

22. So you're saying

that even if the allegations are true, he should remain in office?

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

26. First

it's Dookus, but congratulations on being the 10,000th person to make that lame personal attack.

This hss nothing to do with Tom Delay, unless you think the wrongdoing of Republicans gives license to Democrats to do wrong, too. I think that's an untenable position, morally and ethically.

Do you deny that Shelley hired cronies? Do you think it's proper for him to "lose" two sexual harrassment complaints lodged against him? I don't, regardless of what Tom Delay does.

[anamandujano]

28. 10,000!!!! Wooo! Wooo! I won! I won!

You are suggesting that we continue to play nice and abide by all the rules no matter what.

As you know, I'm pointing out the terminal hypocrisy that allows the repukes to do whatever they want, and make a mockery of laws and ethics.

I have not read up on the Shelly allegations and don't intend to. I'll stay focused on Tom Delay, who had a law passed in honor of his malfeasance.

I do hope you are constantly reminding the repukes of fair play and ethics. Even half of what you are indignant about with the dems will do.

[Dookus]

29. oh, I do

I'm as outraged as you at Delay's antics and his seeming imperviousness to censure.

But I don't think that gives license to Democrats to do similar things.

You say you're not really familiar with the allegations against Shelley. I would suggest you familiarize yourself with them before getting all pissy with me and making childish comments on my username.

btw, every other person who's made that attack has had their post deleted (but I don't alert on them). Just so's ya know.

[anamandujano]

30. I'm focused on election fraud.

I don't have the desire or energy to monitor the ethics of every politician. The most interesting thing to me about Shelly is decertifying Diebold and the ensuing, predictable attack. One thing we can be sure of is that if the allegations prove groundless, we will never hear a retraction in the media.

No politician seeks my license to do whatever. You seem to be the only one interested in my granting license, which I haven't so "stop saying that"(™Boudelang).

[Dookus]

31. I see

so you readily admit you don't know anything about the situation, but you can call me a doofus for pointing out the facts which I *HAVE* bothered to learn about.

[anamandujano]

32. I'm pointing out that you're trying to change the subject.

Go ahead, admit it.

[Dookus]

33. change the subject to what, exactly?

this thread is about Kevin Shelley and the problems he's facing. I believe I've managed to stay on-topic, and as an added bonus, I've actually bothered to inform myself on the issue.

on edit: And if bringing up Tom Delay is not "changing the subject", then I don't know what is.

[anamandujano]

34. Pointing out repuke hypocrisy is always on subject in this forum.

The thread is about Shelly and partisan attacks. Re-read the title.

[Dookus]

35. I haven't

made a single post that wasn't about Shelley.

YOU brought up Tom Delay who has nothing to do with this story.

And then you accuse ME of changing the subject, after making a childish personal attack, AND after admitting you don't know what you're talking about.

I'm gonna bet you weren't captain of your high-school forensics team.

on edit: I'm going to alert on your previous attack just cuz.

[anamandujano]

36. Tom Delay-->ethics violations-->change the law

Shelley-->allegations-->try to remove from office

Hypocrisy at it's finest, not to mention on topic.

[Dookus]

37. Yes

it's perfectly obvious that a discussion of Kevin Shelley's ethical lapses involve Tom Delay.

Yes, you can draw six-degrees of separation to get to Delay. That's fine. But to accuse ME of changing the subject is just laughable.

I have been consistently on-topic in this thread - Kevin Shelley, whatever his virtues, is facing serious accusations that cannot be easily dismissed. I have, unlike you, taken the time to actually read an article or two about the subject. There are a variety of accusations - some we can't draw conclusions about - some we can.

Is it proper to hire campaign contributors and cronies? I think not. Is it proper to "lose" sexual harassment complaints filed against you? I think not. These two issues (and there are others) alone give me pause and make me consider the idea that even though he decertified some Diebold machines, he is not the great liberal messiah some hope for.

As to the concept of "changing the law" that you used in your title, that baffles me. I haven't advocated changing any laws. I've simply argued that those who break the law should not serve in high public office, regardless of party affiliation.

But then, what do I know? I'm a doofus.

[anamandujano]

38. You are certainly on topic

since it's your position to help the repukes get any dem that interferes with their destroying the world, and get whoever you can off topic here at DU pursuing repuke strawmen.

The courts will take care of Shelly. If he's guilty, it's too bad he is not in Congress on the right side. The repuke dominated House has recently passed a law that lets Delay continue to serve no matter what the courts decide for his violations, and they are not just ethical. You might want to familiarize yourself with that one.

On the bright side, it would be fun documenting Delay running things from his cell. No one thinks the repukes would bother to do the dirty if they thought old Tom was innocent.

I think I'll do some other reading now. Catch ya later, or not.

[Dookus]

39. I don't know what you're talking about

"my position" is nothing like what you wrote. My position is simply that Repubican wrong-doing does not excuse Democratic wrong-doing. It's quite simple, really.

[anamandujano]

43. No problemo

Think before you speak next time and you won't have to excuse yourself.

[Dookus]

44. nevermind

let the thread drop. I'm reminded of the old saying that ends with "and they'll beat you with their experience."

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. The battle to win back the integrity of our election process AND

ultimately return to a truly democratic country depends on these kinds of personal sacrifices. People need to step up and continue doing the right thing the way that Shelley did, knowing that they will be targeted for an attack, and probably end up as historical road kill. But they have to take personal satisfaction that improving life for all Americans will depend on many people being in a position to do the right thing, and willing to do it, even at all personal cost.

[Wilms]

3. Slow down, G.

1. Did Shelley hire someone who's tied to a campaign contributor, or not?

2. Last I read, the RNC & Mehlman are pissed at Arnold's re-districting plan. Is that correct, or dis-info?

3. Links showing proof of Arnold/Enron would be good for folks like me who missed that one.

[EFerrari]

6. I've no links to th Enron problem but

would like to point this out: we don't know what if anything Shelley has done. All we have so far is well orchestrated rumor and innuendo.

Let's see if I can find that link, Beth.

[EFerrari]

7. Here's one link

http://www.alternet.org/story/16902

[Wilms]

12. Thanks for the link. n/t

[Raksha]

13. Thanks for the link to that AlterNet story, sfexpat.

I finally learned what the recall of Gray Davis was REALLY all about!

[genius]

10. Arnold and Bush are tight as ever. Arnold met with Ken Lay and planned

out the energy crisis. There's proof and there was proof before the recall.

[EC]

4. Well, I think it's way past time for the Dems to start hitting

the Republicans with shit too...I'm sure there are some real good skeletons in closets with this group...

[anamandujano]

17. The problem, as always, is the "liberal" media that only pushes the

repuke agenda.

We are screwed on every issue until we have a free press again.

[EC]

19. We're doing it now,

just keep being diversionary, shrugging off the hits from the Repukes of our "bellyaching" and complaining...being complacent and trying to work "with" them didn't do a damn thing but put us in a corner, more than a corner, in a box...by the time the election came around no one knew that the Dems even existed anymore....It's time to be the throne, when the cause is just and right...people will see that, maybe they'll say, hey finally someone mentioned that...on issues that they care about instead of made up issues the Repukes keep baiting them with...

[anamandujano]

27. totally agree

Nothing ever comes of being afraid of their slander if you oppose them or don't allow them to frame issues. They slander with abandon whenever they please, no matter how malleable and kiss-@ss the friendly dems are. They usually go after their little helpers more voraciously, think Daschle (I liked him a lot but complacent was his middle name) and others who have let them have their way. And, keep in mind that Bill Clinton signed the bill that allowed the press to become what it is today. Remember how they nice they were to him. (I don't recall any retractions, apologies or Rathergate type firings.)

It's just that it's going to take forever to get any ground because of the mass brainwashing. All the solid evidence, protest, etc gets buried. No one in the whole world wanted the Iraq war (and spoke against it) except BushCo and the press. They got what they wanted; the majority be dammed. They have been called out, shamed and check mated on a regular basis, but they just keep going.

[FreepFryer]

15. Rep. Pelosi on Kevin Shelley (SoS, CA) - "He's a person of integrity."

As I posted here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x307176

Here are my notes from a question asked at the end of Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA, Minority Leader)'s address today.


Q: (unintelligible) "Can you comment on the allegations against Kevin Shelley, (California Secretary of State)?"

Rep. Pelosi: "I can't comment on that, I have no comment. I have known him for many years. He is a person of integrity. I can't answer to things you have brought up, because I am not familiar {with them}..."

[keepthemhonest]

21. "accusing him of ethics charges"

accusing him of being ethical? anyway, Ahnold and bush would make a great team wouldn't they? No more redistricting of voting districts and I don't think they would have a chance with California anymore than New York.

[torque]

23. More proof we have them scared and defenseless

This is a war so they think... Lets give them a fight!

[genieroze]

41. This is a war so they think

That's exactly how they think, read Banana Republicans.

[Peace Patriot]

40. The BushCons are always a thousand miles ahead of us...

...while we have these stupid arguments about whether the trumped up, media-driven charges against the ONE SECRETARY OF STATE IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY WHO TOOK ON DIEBOLD are true.

Dumb us.

[Peace Patriot]

42. genius, I had NOT thought of the danger of Asswipe appointing a new...

...Sec. of State, if Shelley resigns under this brutal BushCon attack. Thanks for alerting me!