Conyers introduces bill to allow naturalized citizens to be President

[Freddie Stubbs]

Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to permit persons who are not natural-born citizens of the United States, but who have been citizens of the United States... (Introduced in House)

HJ 2 IH


109th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. J. RES. 2
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to permit persons who are not natural-born citizens of the United States, but who have been citizens of the United States for at least 20 years, to be eligible to hold the Office of President.


IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

January 4, 2005
Mr. CONYERS (for himself and Mr. SHERMAN) introduced the following joint resolution; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


JOINT RESOLUTION
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to permit persons who are not natural-born citizens of the United States, but who have been citizens of the United States for at least 20 years, to be eligible to hold the Office of President.


Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled (two-thirds of each House concurring therein), That the following article is proposed as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States:

`Article --

`A person who has been a citizen of the United States for at least 20 years shall be eligible to hold the Office of President.'.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.J.RES.2:

[Andy_Stephenson]

1. WHAT?!?!?!?

:wtf:

[Occulus]

2. Does this allow Arnie to be Prez?

Please tell me he hasn't been here long enough. Please, tell me he's nowhere close to the requirement spelled out here...

[Betsy Ross]

4. Sorry, Ahnold could do it.

It took many years of the ERA vote to fail through the states, maybe Ahnold would be dead before the amendment could get the necessary vote.

[seriousstan]

5. Yes, became a naturalized US citizen in 1984

[Andy_Stephenson]

7. Ladies and Gentlemen...I give you the next president of the United States

[New Earth]

13. lolllll

he's so freaking nasty

[Andy_Stephenson]

15. Save that picture quick

we don't want it to disappear now...do we.

[MelissaB]

33. I just got unblocked at work and missed it!

Darn!!

[SharonRB]

18. OMFG!!

Edit: And they thought Bill was bad?

[candice]

83. Yeah, this guy has a history of sexual harassment

... BUT where would he be without steroids? His aorta replacement was supposedly not attributed to his steroid use, although it is a side-effect of steroids.

Even if he were educated, had any real political background, and hadn't sexually assaulted women, I'd have a problem with him. During his formative years when he could have been developing his intellectual/political acumen and putting in the effort to be a leader, he spent his days pumping weights and admiring his oiled, steroid-muscled body in a mirror.

The "recall" was a sham in terms of getting rid of Davis, who admittedly was great behind the scenes, but didn't have the instincts of a political animal in terms of public relations. Arnold probably could NOT have stood the scrutiny of a real campaign; the LA expose of his groping came at the last minute. Then, after duping people who have no idea about politics to register and vote for an action figure, he goes to Ohio to campaign for Bush!

I read that Arnold met with Rove during the so-called energy crisis. If this is true, shows he was aware that he was washed up as the terminator and was ready to move on to politics.

Hard to believe that there could be an even dumber Presidential candidate than Bush, but Arnold might be it, although what's the point of disputing the precedence of a tick over a flea?

[Horse with no Name]

55. OMG two breasteses and one dick

You owe me millions,lol.

[russian33]

3. As a naturalized citizen, I don't think this is a good idea

[troubleinwinter]

6. !!!!!

Rupert Murdoch became an American citizen in 1985.

[Ian David]

10. We owe Conyers enough to at least be civil to him on this

But still I can't help but ask myself, "What is he THINKING?"

[corbett]

79. My Thoughts Exactly!

I guess poring over the fraud evidence has left him cross eyed.

[smiley_glad_hands]

8. Bad idea. eom

[uppityperson]

9. Why is Conyers doing this? WTF?

I expected the repubs, but Conyers? The political mind is too subtle for me.

[Freddie Stubbs]

12. Perhaps he believes that it is the right thing to do

regardless of the political implications.

[AntiFascist]

93. Perhaps....

you're right.

[LSparkle]

14. Duh: Mich. Governor Jennifer Grantholm!

She's been touted as the Dems' answer to Arnie -- a future prez candidate except she was born in Canada. As her constituent, it makes sense for Conyers to introduce this.

[Andy_Stephenson]

16. Uh excuse me...but who the hell is

Jennifer Grantholm? Never heard of her.

Everyone in the Fing world has heard of Arnold. The Dems better find another er um Star to tout as the answer to Arnie.

[SharonRB]

19. It's Jennifer Granholm and she's been a

wonderful governor. It would be great if someday she could run for prez. She's been very visible on the national scene.

[Andy_Stephenson]

24. Never heard of her

and I suspect that many have not.

[SharonRB]

26. She was a frequent guest on many of the

news shows during the campaign, supporting Kerry.

[meganmonkey]

27. Here's a sample...she's kind of a babe, too!

:)

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3751363%20



on edit: I think she'll be around for awhile. She is good at pissing off the repukes.

[FreedomAngel82]

30. Anybody who pisses off the reps

and has great policies I'm all for!

[OKJackson]

43. I don't care, this is a B-A-D idea, as for Conyers

...as for Conyers, I'll wait to hear / read what he says before I judge him on this one, but I totally oppose the idea 100%. We're already having trouble with honest elections, the last thing we need is for these to install a foreign born dictator, Shrub's bad enough and he was born here!

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[txindy]

29. Hey, I never heard of Arkansas Gov. Bill Clinton until he ran for pres.

That's how it works. Exposure. Conyers is helping that along, it seems.

That said, I never heard of her before this, either!

[flyarm]

51. ahhhh never heard of her on the national scene here in fla!!

wtf could conyers be thinking...i am thinking that most of the dems are in on this neo con pnac crap!!

so if we are heavily into politics and " we " haven't heard of her..

and every testosterone 18-35 young man has seen and is in love with the gropenator...we are going to have a snow balls chance in hell in electing the first female unknown to the white house??
nahhhhhhhh...i don't think so...nope not a chance, nada..won't happen!!

thanks conyers..thanks a whole lot for finishing us off!!

fly

:mad: :wtf: :nuke: :thumbsdown:

[pbartch]

91. I've never heard of her either!

[merh]

100. I really like Granholm and would love to see her on the national

scene. What is so sad about this discourse about her and "no one" hearing of her before you referenced her is that it reflects how the media DID NOT give Kerry adequate coverage during the campaign.

(Also, it shows how folks still are not trying to educate themselves about our party leaders. Governors are very important and we need to follow all of the dem govs and be aware of their records. We need to know everything we can about all of our dem candidates and leaders, local, state and federal.)

[bush_is_wacko]

76. God this is a HORRID idea! Conyers is a smart man> Does he realize what

he's trading? It is always prudent to NOT have a myopic vision of what the ramifications are. I love Conyers, but this isn't acceptable! Time to warn him off. I'll be nice.

[Demit]

11. Hope that's some kind of clever horsetrading. He must figure amendments

have a very slim chance of passing. I hope he got something for that that he can use...

[Wilms]

17. Relax. 2/3 of both houses, 2/3 of the states. Won't happen.

I hope.... :scared:

[tandem5]

96. yeah relax... they won't recall davis nt

[jrthin]

20. You're kidding?

The rethugs just have to sit back and allow the dems to do the work for them. We are one effing lost party. Why make it easy for the rethugs to put up Arnie on 08? Good effing grief.

[AntiFascist]

95. Would you rather have Arnold or Jeb?

I've heard that the Bush machine is busy at work grooming Jeb.

[NationalEnquirer]

21. What the f*CKE!

I was so upset that some Repunks were talking about this, and now CONYERS does it?

Is there no difference between the parties nowadays?

What is the man thinking?

I dont care about Granholm, this is tailor made for Arnold S.

[LSparkle]

23. I think it'd be harder for Arnie (even a movie star)

with a thick Austrian accent to be accepted by the 'Murican people as their president than a woman from Canada who's indistinguishable from them. With his social views and plenty of skeletons in the closet (we'd have a good long campaign to bring all the Gropernator's dirty laundry out), I highly doubt he'll ever be President, even if this amendment passes.

[fasttense]

74. Never put anything past the Repukes

The fix is in on the next election. Unless something happens to clean up our elections, we will have another Repuke in 2008, and I have yet to see any legislation that addresses the massive election fraud. Corporations love the Repukes and they are not going to allow anyone to clean up the election fraud.

This move, no matter what Conyers says, is to get Arnold on the ballot. The Repukes have the media and they will never give Arnold the bad press he deserves. Arnold will come out of the media spin looking like JFK.

So this move is because some Repuke has convinced Conyers it is for the Democratic good. But it's not. It's simply to put a Hitler loving Repuke into the white house and continue the Repuke dynasty. Arnold may appeal to some Democrats but it really doesn't matter. They got the votes rigged and are just lining up their next candidate with the help of Conyers.

[meganmonkey]

22. Why is everyone so against this idea? In principle - I mean

outside of the Arnie aspect of it....

Just curious...

[Freddie Stubbs]

25. Perhaps some people favor politics over principle

Would anyone here be opposing this if not for Arnold?

[meganmonkey]

28. Precisely!

I am curious as to why Conyers is sponsoring this, but I am sure it isn't to get Arnie elected!

Maybe it has something to to do with what some would call 'civil rights'?!

[flyarm]

52. a resounding yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

think kissinger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
think rove dual citizen..think wolfowitz dual citizen!! think abrahms

think the whole freaking * cabal!!!!!!!!! the whole pnac bunch!!!!!!!!!!

fly

[skids]

66. Yep. Totally opposed.

Only natural born citizens. You have to draw the line somewhere, there's no good reason to move it, and I am very comfortable with where it is drawn at the moment.

[FreedomAngel82]

31. I think one thing I worry about is

if we're at war with the person's homeland. Would they still be the President of the U.S. or would they put their homeland first? :\ I'm surprised of Conyers too. I wonder why? Maybe he has something up his sleeve? :shrug:

[meganmonkey]

34. Right, but how likely is it that the US would elect someone

from Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, N Korea, or some other country we have 'problems' with. It is intersting to think about though...

[flyarm]

53. how likely was it

that the monkey boy liar and thief would steal one election and then steal a second and get away with it??

[Amaryllis]

59. Highly likely with E-voting. Lots of us knew they would steal it again.

[flyarm]

78. well yes we were all aware that the steal was in for the 2004

election, but none of us were prepared for 2000..without 2000 ..2004 would be a moot point. he stole it in 2000 and set us up for 2004..in my lifetime i never thought i would see this day and my nation turned into fascism..but thats where we are today..and it all began in 2000..and i just sincerely wish we had all taken to the streets in 2000 to stop this cabal in their tracts.

fly:hi:

[sunnystarr]

44. I would have disagreed last week but after watching SOTU

this week I agree wholeheartedly. The Iraqi woman voter, as she's been described, was living in Jordan since she was 2 years old and returned to Iraq after Sadaam was captured. She considered herself living in exile, like she was politically astute at 2! Now after 30 someodd years in Jordan, she's active in Iraqi politics, was part of that ballot, and is the Egyptian ambassador from Iraq and considers herself an Iraqi citizen.

So in essense someone can come here from say Saudi Arabia as a child and after 40 years decide to run for President of the US, but in their heart still be a citizen of Saudi Arabia.

The Evangelical right wingers should have taught us a lesson. They've been planning since the 60's and Goldwater to be in power and they made it. Who's to say that a group who's looking to harm the US wouldn't plan to have someone in their group run for the Presidency? Especially in other areas of the world where they have more patience and where long range planning is second nature.

[Matariki]

65. but by that logic...

A person could be born here to parents who emigrated. As it is, that person could run for president and still have family instilled loyalty to their parent's homeland.

So, where do you draw the line? perhaps only people who's ancestors came on the mayflower? (that's sarcasm for the literal minded amongst us.)

[tex-wyo-dem]

32. Maybe...

just maybe this is a case of give and take.

Conyers agrees to sponsor a bill that the Repubs favor, and in return Sensenbrenner agrees to push for congressional investigation into Ohio election...

Or maybe I just have a case of wishful thinking.

[FogerRox]

35. We could wish that all together

[meganmonkey]

36. maybe if we wish hard enough,

it'll come true ;)

KEEP HOPE ALIVE

[Twist_U_Up]

45. Good chess move perhaps ?

Conyers knows the pigs want this, if he introduces this bill the pigs have to recognize him . If the pigs slam Conyers on conspiracy election fraud charges and make him look like a nut, this takes him out of the mainstream thus thier naturalization bill is drug down with Conyers.

If the pigs favor his bill they will have to recognize him as legit and that opens the door for election reform.

[BoomerSoonerOKU]

37. I read somewhere

that Conyer's is pushing this bill and asking for support for this and then there will be a bill put forth that would allow people to run for president for more than two terms as long as it isn't consecutive terms. A la Bill Clinton. I think it's a bit of give and take.

[Amaryllis]

60. WHAT !!!! You mean Shrub could be emperor AGAIN!!! What the hell are they

THINKING??

[helderheid]

81. So could Clinton

Muaahhahahahahha

[Amaryllis]

85. Not with e-voting. Until we take care of that, they win every time.

[darkworkz]

38. NO. Not a good idea!

Conyers should get flooded with mail stating that this is not WANTED nor NEEDED!

Our Constitution was fashioned with a specific purpose in mind; Our freedoms! And we're now relearning them. Just in time!

Conyers is going down the WRONG road with this one. And we NEED to correct him!

p.s. I believe Orin Hatch (R)UTAH was the first to present this idea. Conyers is putting his own version in the ring. Sure, I understand the politics of it. The USA just doesn't need it. If you think otherwise that's you're business. But as stated above that Prohibition was placed in the Constitution for a REASON. You should learn the reason why before any talk about changing it.

[darkworkz]

41. adding on a THANK GOD!

The population of the US is waking up to what's going on around them. I'd hate to think what this country would look like in another 7 years if this "awakening" wasn't in motion right now!

The US Constitution and this country is yours/ours. Act like it!

[Amaryllis]

61. YES!!!

[ISUGRADIA]

92. The founding fathers were not perfect

"Our Constitution was fashioned with a specific purpose in mind; Our freedoms! And we're now relearning them. Just in time!
"

In 1789 slavery was enshrined in the constitution, women were chattel more or less under the law, the Senate was not elected by the people, and te bill of rights did not effect state actions, only federal. Improvements occured over the years. I do not see why someone who comes to the US at age 3 should be barred from ever becoming president. I don't want Arnold to be elected, but the way amendments go through the states, if passed it may not go into effect until 2012. Arnold will be in his mid 60s then and could be so passe.

[satya]

39. I have a lot of faith in Conyers--he knows what he's doing.

And he's fighting for clean, transparent elections. Unless we win that battle, it won't matter who runs.

[Andy_Stephenson]

40. Clean transparent elections???

Have you read his bill?

[satya]

48. No VVPB?(Haven't read bill, just your comments in another thread).

Dang! This is what I get for falling asleep at the wheel. I still want to believe he's on our side--have you been in touch with him about your concerns?

[Andy_Stephenson]

58. Yes

I talked to a staff member.

[Nederland]

42. I think this is good

Personally, if I had to stomach another Republican President, Arnold is at the top of my list. He's pro-choice, pro-gay marriage and generally a hell of a lot more progressive than most Republicans...

[Peace Patriot]

72. Schwarzenegger is a BushCon operative, chosen by George Schultz and...

...Kenneth Lay at a meeting in L.A. a year before the Recall to prevent California from ever getting its stolen $10 billion back from Enron & Co., to complete the looting of California (now in progress), and to Texify our political system and elections (also in progress). They have destroyed Kevin Shelley, one of the few Secretaries of State in the country to take a position against Diebold--maybe the only one--and who, when he saw what was happening with the electronic voting system, provided Californians with a paper ballot option in 2004. That's how the state went for John Kerry and gave Barbara Boxer a blowout victory.

They HAD TO HAVE a relative social liberal to make it look legit. Social conservatives can't get past the 30% to 40% threshold of votes in California.

My guess on Conyers? He traded this for a Voting Rights Constitutional amendment, which won't be enforced, but which will give everybody, including BushCons, an occasion to pat themselves on the back, and crow about their belief in "freedom, liberty and democracy." End of election reform.

I'm sorry, but that's what it looks like to me.

I never expected election reform from Congress. Are we kidding ourselves? The BushCons took away our right to vote, quite deliberately. They are not going to give it back. The real fight is in the states, where ordinary citizens have more say--and that's where they're playing real dirty (as per above).

[Nederland]

101. Question

Beyond speculative theories about what brought Arnold to power, what has he done that you disagree with? Now compare that list to the things that Bush has done that you disagree with. I don't know about you, but for me there is no comparision between those two lists.

[Bill Bored]

46. Something tells me there's some SERIOUS HORSE TRADING

going on with these bills!

And I hope we don't get the wrong end of the horse!

Let's look for some action from the Repukes in Conyers' favor in response to this, like full hearings on Ohio maybe?

[Bill Bored]

47. Here's the plan:

The House Judiciary has agreed to impeach the Shrub. We get Arnold in the White House for a couple of years as a moderate Repuke after that because CrashCart is either too sick or too corrupt to take over. So Arnold is Jerry Ford until '08 and then we vote for a real president again with voter-verified paper ballots and Conyers' other reforms. Dems win in '08 because there's little or no election fraud.

Meanwhile we get Nelson Mandella or someone else really good to become a US citizen to run against Rupert Murdoch in 2012!

[Amaryllis]

62. Good plan...you just might make me change my mind with that plan!

[OKJackson]

71. Please read

I don't want to sound so negative but... that's Crazy with a capital C.

Don't go for this, don't even budge.

When an honest man and a murderer compromise? What is the result?

A dead man.

Do not compromise, or democracy will be the dead man.

[Bill Bored]

86. That's OK, I was being facetious about Mandella and Murdoch.

But, I've got to believe there is some horse trading going on. Conyers can't just be pulling this out his butt, so to speak. It can fail at so many levels, but meanwhile, if it buys us some election reform so we can actually have a voice in Congress again, it might be worth it. At that point, we simply vote against it. If it doesn't pass by Jan 2007, it's history anyway, right? But there CAN be a fair election in 2006 if the needed reforms are in place.

[rzemanfl]

49. Could Conyers believe he is such a leper to the Repukes that

having his name attached to this will kill it?

[Bill Bored]

50. Here's the other possibility:

Arnold goes Blue!

[Catamount]

54. Where was Conyers born?

He's still my hero!:)

[davidlynch]

56. Don't Worry--It's The Right Move--See Analysis Inside

There is a simple reason for this--it's to try to stop Jeb from being the next President and continuing the hegemony of the Bush Crime Family.

Without this, Jeb is inevitable, not matter what anyone says. The existing infrastructure will simply "move under" Jeb in 2008, and with the vote rigging he'll win.

HOWEVER...

If Arnold is in the Republican Primary, he'll very likely win. This would derail the Bush Crime Family.

This is my theory, and I'm pretty sure its correct.

[Amaryllis]

63. Now that is the first thing I've heard that makes sense....

[OKJackson]

70. No, that's worse... don't go for this!

...because Arnie is the point.

This guy is the son of a Nazi.

Bush is the Grandson of a Nazi financial supporter.

See the pattern?

These laws are here to protect us, don't get thrown off on the HOPE, the GAMBLE of a temporary political win, it's not worth it.

[MadisonProgressive]

57. I don't like it one bit

Don't mess with the constitution unless you've got a damn good reason. AHnold aint it.

[Matariki]

64. for the sake of argument

take arnold out of the equation. and explain why you think it's a bad idea to have a naturalized citizen become president.

i'm not sure what i think either way. if i forget about arnold, that is.

is it possible that the objections are based in xenophobia? does a person need to be born here to understand the country or be a good leader? if so, why?

[skids]

67. Personally I want the commander in chief of the U.S. military...

...to be defending the town of his birth.

It isn't a perfect criterion, but more often than not, it will eliminate people who really should not be president. Personally I think there should be more restrictions, and it isn't xenophobia. I know because most Americans are more alien to me than a lot of people from overseas.

[Al-CIAda]

68. No, it isn't "possible that the objections are based in xenophobia"

It IS however possible that we think tthe Constitution is not something to be F'd with so easily. This is terrible idea, and so is any scheme to get Clinton or any other past president to be one the ballot.

He we gone COMPLETELY insane?
The wisdom of the founding documents mean less and less every day.

[Bill Bored]

87. I also agree with this view.

But if there isn't a snowball's chance in heck that it will pass, like the Repuke amendments in the last congress, then it may not be so bad. I agree that NO ONE should be trivializing the Constitution; it's a slippery slope. But we are talking about John Conyers here. Maybe we should just ask him what he has in mind before we condem it. Maybe he already knows the Dems (or even some Repukes) will shoot it down in flames. But he can say he tried in good faith and maybe get something in return that we REALLY need. I don't think true conservatives would want this amendment either, BTW.

[dmac]

69. I am very surprised that Conyers is doing this and

will hold out hope that there is a valid reason for it. Several that you guys have mentioned sound plausible. However, should it ever pass, I think what the R's would capitalize on it in the worst possible way.

I believe they would use him on the ticket WITH Jeb - to make Jeb appealing.

I am going to wait on more details before I get angry with Conyers.

[Helga Scow Stern]

84. I researched this when it was first announced....

and it seemed that the obvious reason was that Conyers was doing it for Granholm.

Suggestions have been added that it not become effective for anyone who could benefit by it now, like Gropenator or Granholm, i.e. that it not go into effect for 20 years.

[Mojorabbit]

73. I am a naturalized citizen

I was born in bermuda and was naturalized when I was something like eight or nine. I don't have a problem with it. My pop was in the military and is american. I agree. If it wasn't for arnold this would not be an issue.

[fasttense]

75. Naturalized citizens are strong contributors to this society, but....

But this is simply a ploy to put Arnold in the white house. Nothing more, no matter what spin Conyers and others give it. People say separate the issue from Arnold and take a look at it. I say you can't separate the issue from Arnold because if not him, than someone just like him will come along. The Repukes don't care how they stretch, distort or misrepresent the Constitution and will take advantage of any unforeseen result of "fixing" the Constitution.

[bush_is_wacko]

77. Sent him an email! He is a reasonable man. I'm sure the voice of

the people will help him realize his mistake.

[helderheid]

80. Tereza Heinz for Prez!

[suffragette]

82. Yeah, what helderheid said

:)

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[trayfoot]

94. SORRY! I appreciate Conyers..........

but I can NEVER sign on to this! I do NOT want naturalized citizens running for president - whether it is Arnie or otherwise!

[skids]

97. Think of it in terms of what power changes hands.

If you ammend the constitution to take the very specific language out of it and replace it with "naturalized citizen" who gets to say what a "naturalized citizen" is?

Answer: congress.

Just by passing a normal bill, congress now has control over who can and cannot be president. In addition, there are probably other officials both elected and non-elected, who have to power to exempt the law and grant naturalization to whoever they want.

[fasttense]

98. Good point.

Who actually gives someone "naturalized" status? That person or persons will hold a whole hell lot of power.

[AndrewClarke]

99. Conyers introduced the same resolution in the last Congress

I tend to think he believes it is a good idea.

Similar resolutions are introduced in just about every Congress, by both Democrats and Republicans. Barney Frank and Orrin Hatch have both introduced such resolutions.

I think it's a good idea to allow naturalized Citizens to be eligible for the Presidency. I'm not sure if 20 years is too long, or not enough. I'd like to see some debate on that issue.

There is also a current resolution to repeal the 22nd Amendment, which would make Bill Clinton and George W. Bush eligible for another run.

Congress proposes dozens of amendments in every session. If a proposed amendment concerns you, write a letter to your Senators or Representative. But I think there is too much freaking out (OMFG!!!!!!!!!!) around here.