Feinstein Gathering Co-Sponsors for Bill to Abolish Electoral College

[Wilms]

Feinstein Gathering Co-Sponsors for Bill to Abolish Electoral College

by Matthew Cardinale, 2/03/05
TruthOut

U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) is currently gathering original co-sponsors for her proposed bill to abolish the Electoral College system for the U.S. Presidential Election, and to replace it with a direct vote for the Presidency, according to Feinstein press secretary, Adam Vogt.

The Electoral College has been described by critics as confusing, complicated, alienating, diversionary, unnecessary, undemocratic, and moreover, as hypocritical to the fundamental principles of American governance, which has otherwise been a global leader in democracy.

"A President can be elected without receiving the most popular votes - this is the fundamental flaw of our electoral system," Senator Feinstein said during a press statement on January 6, 2005, the day of the Electoral College certification of George W. Bush.

<http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/020305I.shtml>

Thanks to L. Coyote

[Hekate]

1. Kudos to DiFi!

If she pursues this diligently she'll be off my s**t list for supporting Condi.

Hekate
:kick:

[Todd B]

2. Awesome!

This is a huge step in the right direction and I hope others will join her in signing on to the bill, if only to bring it forward as an issue. I just hope she supports IRV as an alternative above all else (doesn't California already use it already?)!

[Poppyseedman]

3. I know this a minority opinion

but, I hate to fool around with the Constitution. The election year 2000 shows a anomaly can happen, it happened twice in our long history.

Political this could potential really bite us in the arse in the future.

I don't like the fact if we go with a straight popular vote, we will in fact leave the decision for all presidential elections to about the 10 or 12 largest population area's in the country.

Any candidate needs to sew up those areas to potentially win and blow off the remaining 40 or so states.

If you live in a small state or in an area of a state that is not populated very well, we will have no voice.

The GOP machine is fast and well oiled and we seem to be driving a 64 American Rambler on it's last legs.

This could hurt us in the long run.

[rjbny62]

6. nope, you are incorrect when you say this

>>If you live in a small state or in an area of a state that is not populated very well, we will have no voice. >>

These small states have too much voice now. A vote in one of the small states is worth more proportionally than one of the large states and this isn't right. Let each persons vote count have a value of 1!

Additionally, if you live in a non-swing state, there is always the question in the back of the voters mind about whether their vote will make a difference. If the electoral college is dropped, every vote will be important and people will be more motivated to cast their ballots.

[AtLiberty]

7. I forget what the ratio is...

...but if you live say in Illinois, your vote is worth 2/3 of someone from North Dakota. The electoral college wouldn't be so bad if it truly reflected populations of each state.

She could use Ohio to argue that Bush only won the election by 119,000 votes.

[noamnety]

17. You would have the same voice as everyone else

one person, one vote. Right now, if you are in one of the most populated areas, your voice counts less. The weight of your vote shouldn't be tied to whether you live in a rural or urban state.

[fasttense]

4. Just the Repukes setting up for the 2008 election fraud.

They seem able to convince the Dems to do their dirty work for them.

We have a much loved Dem introducing an amendment to the constitution to allow naturalized citizens to be president and we got another one amending the Constitution to abolish the Electoral College. Soon the Repukes will have convinced the Dems to introduce an amendment to allow for only One political party. (And that party certainly wont be the Democratic party).

This is how the Repukes take control. Watch and learn as the Dems come tumbling down and the US becomes fully fascist.

[eyesroll]

8. Why is one person-one vote fascist or anti-Dem?

For that matter -- we've got good non-native citizens on our side, too. (I'm a little more torn on that amendment -- more because I really don't want President Arnold than anything else. But anyway.)

I'd like to better understand why you believe getting rid of the Electoral College is inherently a Republican idea. Remember, had we no EC in 2000, Gore would have become President outright (and, while who knows if Gore would have won again in 2004 -- chances are, it wouldn't have been a Bush-Gore rematch).

[fasttense]

9. Because now, after rigging an election,

The Repukes wont have to worry about that pesky confirmation of electoral votes by the senate and the house. All they got to do is count the votes and be done with it. If there was fraud, that avenue to contest the votes will be gone. Not that it works all that well because of that two hour debate rule that they fixed with that other amendment.

[fasttense]

14. Sorry, I made a mistake.

It is the Electoral Count Act of 1887 that changed how the congress deals with challenged electoral votes, not an amendment.

[AntiFascist]

23. Considering Rep. Conyers' stance....

I wonder if there might be dem candidates who might be worrisome as well? This probably isn't the proper forum for this line of thought, however....

[CindyDale]

5. The point of it was to prevent someone totally inappropriate

from being elected. Has it done that?

[rjbny62]

35. just the opposite

it enabled someone totally inappropriate to be elected

[slackmaster]

10. I don't understand why she is bothering with this

It's just grandstanding; absolutely no chance of being enacted.

[ynksnewyork2]

16. isn't that the truth!

[bush_is_wacko]

11. Finally! They tried to change Colorado law to proportionally

split the electoral college vote this last November. Everyone rebelled against that. Their reasoning was that if we were the only state doing it it wasn't going to help. I agreed with that reasoning and I voted it down. My suggestion was a 50 state effort to abolish the electoral collage. If one state does it, they all should. It is way outdated. The original goal was to stop uneducated and easily swayed rural voters from being able to control the vote in a way that would hurt the larger goals of the states themselves.

Back then uneducated rural voters really were uneducated. Many couldn't read or write and were really unable to understand the implications of their vote. That kind of ignorance is very rare now in our society. I suppose it does still exist, but certainly not to the extent it existed back then. My 15 year old daughter has more education than a lot of the people that were running the country 200 years ago.

When the citizenry evolves the government and the laws that make it work should evolve along with it!

[fasttense]

15. Yes, but if you do away with the electoral college

then you will have cut off another avenue of challenges to fraudulent elections.

[bush_is_wacko]

21. As if challenges to the electoral certification have been so productive...

While I enjoyed the Boxer rebellion immensely. I'm not sure I see that it produced any change. I have not seen a single reform bill or draft that looks like a legitimate solution, thus far. I know there are some touting Dodd and Ensigns proposals, but they don't address the central issue, which for me is computers of all kinds and forms. I want them out of the process forever! In the case of elections, easily calibrated and monitored "mechanical" counting devices is the ONLY acceptable way. (hand-counting is only a temporary solution, Americans are impatient and they won't wait months or even weeks for the results of an election) I don't want to vote on a computer and I don't want my vote counted by a computer. Paper receipts are crap and they aren't going to trump a computer counted tally. People will lose them, they can be accused of tampering with them, they are inherently prone to manipulation.

As far as challenging the vote goes, this is only one more aspect we must address before signing our names to any election reform bill. My guess is this sort of legislation will be the most difficult and time consuming and therefore end up last on the list of reform. This is a long haul and I'm ready to explore all aspects before I consider the issue settled in a way that can be MOSTLY trusted. I am willing to live with the fact that there is NO system that is completely safe from fraud, but it MUST be VERY difficult for anyone to perpetrate fraud.

I want a basic system in place quickly though, so I am willing to back a somewhat comprehensive, but not all inclusive, bill sooner rather than allow 2006 to be manipulated to the extent 2004 was.

[TruthIsAll]

26. The EC *IS* the avenue for frauduleny elections.

Remember FL 2000?

And what about FL and OH this time.

The real problem is the BBV. If you can steal enough popular votes, you win - and they just did it to pad the vote to complement the 4 or 5 state thefts (OH, FL, NM, NV, IA).

[fasttense]

29. I'm not so sure.

I think the Repukes will design the amendment to eliminate the EC in such a way to ensure there is NO avenue for redress in a contested election. In other words, to make it easier for them to steal.

[flounderinginflorida]

12. Too little, too late

Now she cares about the election? Where was she when Barbara when standing alone during the Ohio vote objection? Not to mention her vote to cofirm Gonzales. Sorry, no support from me. She's just trying to jump on the "Boxer bandwagon".

[flounderinginflorida]

13. My mistake

Oops. I meant Condiliar. No Gonzales

[newyawker99]

36. Hi flounderinginflorida!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[leftyandproud]

18. Then Kerry would REALLY have had no chance..

why is she doing this? I'm afraid such a large part of our country has become so STUPID that our only hope is to strategically put all of our resources in states that will give a dem the electoral college victory.

[TruthIsAll]

27. Kerry won the popular vote. You have not been keeping up.

Did you see the USCountvote.org paper?
Do you realize the election was stolen - lock, stock and barrel?

The biggest myth is that Bush won the popular vote by 3.5 million.
Kerry won it by at least 3 million. And at least 311 EV's.

[GOPBasher]

19. The electoral college is not a big deal.

The biggest problem is the senate. I don't see how our founding fathers thought this thing up, honestly. Every state gets the same represenation, regardless of population. So, the people of Wyoming get two senators and the people of California get two senators. The people in Wyoming have way, way, way more represenation per person than do the people of Cali. It's no where on the radar, but someday I'd love to see a constitutional amendment to fix the senate. Maybe there should be large senate "districts" with the same number of people per district, like in the house.

[skids]

28. If you want to fix the senate...

Lobby your state government to disincorporate into a group of smaller states.

Think of states as "gangs" of people. The bigger gangs have the unfair advantage, because their governments have more money and more power. The senate is there to keep the big gangs from beating up on the little gangs.

Frankly, if Feinstein can use this for some sort of political ploy, that's fine. In reality, it is a distraction we don't need. And dfrankly, one I oppose on its face.

[PaganPreacher]

39. The Senate was structured to be an "equal representation" house

for the states, and the House of Representatives was structured to be an "equal representation" house for the citizens.

When the Constitution was enacted, Senators were selected by each state's legislature, with the responsibility to represent that state's legislature in the US Senate.

It was structured as a balance of power between the state governments and the voters, in the legislative branch.

The 17th Amendment, ratified in 1913, changed the Senatorial selection system to a popular vote, changing the dynamic between the houses. At the time, the popular mood was for the Senate to be a more egalitarian house, but instead we ended up with a second House of Representatives that does not look after the interests of the states. (read this: http://www.usconstitution.net/constamnotes.html#Am17)

The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

[RC]

20. This is a good idea.

Look at how Red the small states are. We are talking about a presidential election. This would not affect the election of the congress gritters.
In reality a direct election of the president would reflect the views of the voters. Making Florida and Ohio much less important over all.
If this electoral collage is such a great idea, why is it not used anywhere else?

[fasttense]

30. It's just that you need to remember Repukes are in this.

If they can find a way to ensure there is no avenue for redress if an election is stolen they will do it. My belief is that they will write this in such a way to do away with contesting elections.

[European Socialist]

22. If nothing else...

It would be nice to have it automatic-no electors involved-just the number of Congressional seats added up and given to the winner.

[KnowerOfLogic]

24. Yes. Should have gotten rid of it a long time ago. One person-

one vote.

[EndElectoral]

25. Great News..

Now is the time to do it. The Repubs think it advantages them, but the history of the Electoral College is a disaster. It no longer would create battleground states, and huge margins in California could help if in fact they knew their votes counted. Personally, I think more CA voters would vote IF in fact they knew it didn't come down to OH or FL.

Let's hope.

[fasttense]

31. Well, if you get your way,

It will make it easier for Repukes to steal the election.

[EndElectoral]

41. Not true...Gore had more votes in 2000 documented.

Additionally, many more California voters will turn out. I also am in favor of the secession of Texas.

[EndElectoral]

42. Anyone who researches the creation of the Electoral College realizes WHY

it was set up and WHY it must go.

[Im with Rosey]

32. I have NO confidence in DiFi

I think the biggest issue is election FRAUD. EC doesn't matter, popular vote doesn't matter. The repigs will always find a way to steal any election until we figure out a way to have checks and balances during every step of the way. Stop them from stealing the elections and the problem is solved. The bottom line is that idiot-for-brains was coronated because of FRAUD, he is the only president in recent history that has caused discrepency between popular vote and EC. You historians out there are free to correct me!

[AtLiberty]

33. Without the electoral college...

...the GOP would need to spread their fraud out.

[Hugin]

34. Yeah, with all those republican owned vote counting...

... machines out there. It's no longer necessary and
when someone like Boxer and those in Congress stand
up and question it, it's embarrassing.

[kster]

37. Didn't bush

steal the popular vote? How does this bill help us? They would only have to worry about stealing the popular vote,because the electoral vote would be in the bag if this bill is passed.

[demo dutch]

38. Glad to see she's doing something usefull! I am still upset

with her over Condi

[Bill Bored]

40. Waste of Time IMHO. nt