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HAVA does NOT require we go electronic! Send to all election officials...

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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 12:46 PM
Original message
HAVA does NOT require we go electronic! Send to all election officials...

http://www.votersunite.org/takeaction/mythbreakers.pdf

(I'll just post the table of contents - this document should be sent to all senators and congresspeople and election officials)

Contents
Preface iii
Overview viii
1 Facts about The Help America Vote Act (HAVA) 1
HAVA Does Not Require the Use of DREs 1
HAVA Does Not Prohibit Punch Card and Lever Systems 1
HAVA Preserves States' Right to Use Paper Ballots 2
HAVA "Audit" Requirement is Not a Meaningful Recount 2
HAVA Allows Partial Replacement of Old Systems 3
HAVA Preserves States' Rights to Establish Voting Equipment Standards 3
2 E-Voting Problems in Recent Elections 4
Ten Common Electronic Election Problems 4
1) Electronic Voting Machines Lose Ballots 4
2) Electronic Election Equipment Inexplicably Adds Ballots 5
3) Tabulation Software Reaches 32,767 Votes and Counts Backwards 7
4) Votes Jump to the Opponent on the Screen 8
5) DREs Provide Incorrect Ballots 9
6) Election-Specific Programming Miscounts Votes 9
7) DREs Break Down During the Election 10
8) Electronic Voting Machines Fail to Start Up 11
9) Registration Data Transmission Fails 11
10) Memory Cards and Smart Card Encoders Fail 12
Other Electronic-Election Phenomena 13
1) Election Officials Provide a Default Presidential Candidate 13
2) Totals Dip into the Negative Numbers 13
3) Voters Cast Non-Existent Ballots 14
4) DREs Require Voters To Scroll Through The Ballot Backwards 14
5) Report Shows 300 Registered Voters For Every Precinct in One County 14
3 Breaking the Myths about Testing and Certification 17
Words from Experts 17
A Look at the Current Process 18
Inadequacy of the Standards 19
Secrecy of the Qualification Process 19
State Certification — Seeing if the Functions are There 20
Org
The Myth of Pre-Election Testing 20
The Realities of Conducting Logic & Accuracy (L&A) Testing on DREs 22
If DREs Fail the L&A Test ... 23
How's it Working? 24
4 Election Complexities Increased by Electronic Voting 25
Software Complexities 25
A Word about Source Code and Programming 25
ES&S iVotronic — Case Study of a Tiny Programming Bug 26
Safeguarding Votes: Paper vs. Electronic Data 27
Complexities that Make Government Oversight a Myth 27
Officials Cannot Oversee the Vote-Counting Process in Electronic Elections 27
Election Directors Rely on Vendor Technicians During Elections 28
Lack of Information about Malfunctions Handicaps Election Officials 30
Illegal Use of Uncertified Software 32
Software is Uncontrollable 33
Electronic Data Has No Substance That Could Resist Alteration 34
Administration Complexities 35
Chain of Custody Complexities Increase Exponentially with Electronic Data 35
Increased Problems from Human Error in Electronic Elections 36
Violation of Ballot Secrecy with the Use of DREs 38
Running an Electronic Election - a Ballot Judge's Summary 38
Running an Electronic Election – an Election Official's Report 39
Management Complexities 41
Saving Money by Combining Precincts May Decrease Voter Turnout 41
Potential DRE Problems Inherent in Electronic Devices 41
Touch Screen Misalignment 41
Power Surges or Static Electricity Discharges 42
Electrical Outages and Inadequate Battery Charges 42
Maintenance Challenges 43
Rapid Obsolescence and Toxic Waste Disposal 43
5 HAVA-Compliant Alternatives to Paperless Voting 44
Voter-Verified Paper Ballots (VVPB) 44
Precinct-Count Optical Scan Systems 45
Ballot-Marking Devices for the Disabled 46
Tactile Ballot Templates for the Blind and Reading Impaired 46
Open Voting Consortium Software 47
DREs with Integrated Printer for Printing Voter-Verified Paper Ballots 48
Ballot Integrity Project Proposal 48
6 HAVA-Compliant Voting System Costs 49
DRE Systems 49
Increased Cost Per Ballot when DREs are Used 50
Hidden Costs of DREs 50
Precinct-Count Optical Scan System + Ballot-Marking Device 51
Precinct-Count Optical Scan System + Tactile Ballot Templates 52
Open Voting Consortium System 53
DREs with Integrated VVPB Printer 53
Estimated Capital Cost Comparison for Voting Systems 53
7 Distinguishing Truth from Misinformation 54
Reports by Computer Experts Discredit DRE Systems 54
Some Officials' Claims about Electronic Elections Don't Match the Facts 56
Some DREs Don't Provide Accessibility to the Disabled 58
Cleaning up Misconceptions about VVPB 59
No systems require voters to verify their ballots 59
No System Provides a VVPB for the Voter to Remove from the Polls 59
No system requires poll workers to assist voters in verifying their ballots 60
VVPB does not violate the Americans with Disabilities Act 60
Financial Ties of DRE Advocates to Vendors Suggests Bias 60
Influential Advocate of Paperless DREs Received Large Donations from Vendors 60
ES&S Paid Commissions to Officials who Endorsed Their Products 61
Fortune's Worst Technology of 2003: Paperless Voting 61
Afterword 62


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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. self kick
for the sake of the 2006 elections
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BanzaiBonnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. Interesting
Edited on Sun Feb-06-05 02:47 PM by BanzaiBonnie
I was told by Washington State election officials that electronic voting machines were going to be required by law, by 2006.

I would like to see everyone follow up on this with their state election commission and SOS.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. We were told the same thing at a meeting
here in Utah. A Republican is sponsoring HB 211 which would require an unalterable auditable record of the votes cast, however it did not require that record be that of a paper receipt or ballot. During the discussion of the bill, someone from the elections office said don't add printers because it would cost the State 5 million bucks to do so and HAVA money wouldn't cover that. The people on the commission, mostly Republicans (the old fashioned "we don't want big government in our lives" kind), asked why we had to change anyway and resented the government holding a carrot in front of them like this. The guy from the elections office said HAVA REQUIRED US TO PURCHASE ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES. I went online and found the Mythbreakers document and emailed everyone on that commission to tell them that we in fact DID NOT have to purchase them. Not one has responded.

Before the end of the meeting, the bill was amended to add a voter verifiable paper trail. By the time the wording had been put into the bill, it was no longer there - just something about being able to use ballots but no requirement of the machines to have them.

The bill is here

http://www.le.state.ut.us/~2005/bills/hbillint/hb0211.pdf
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greenmutha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. helderheid...
I'm assuming you will take care of this for our lovely state? ( By the way :hi: )
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I'm working on our state!
I'll keep working on it! PM me if you want to be on the UDPC list :)
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. hope you'll help here too! :)
Good to see you!
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
6. is it wrong for me to self nominate?
It's SO important this info gets in the right hands before the 2006 elections!!
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. No, helderheid. This is a very important post -- keep kicking away
We definitely need to read this in the Orange State as we consider revising our voting procedures. This is a great reference -- thanks.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Thanks!
I really think most of these election officials are CLUELESS and too lazy to read. It's up to us to inform them. I did write the guy who interviewed me in our local paper about the bill I mentioned before and sent him a brief description of that meeting along with the table of contents above and thanked him for shedding light on this. We are the media and we need to get local. I hope we can get at LEAST one person from each state reading this to agree to get this info to their election officials, to their representitives, and to local reporters who report on local governement.
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
9. WHY IS THIS SUCH A COMMON MISCONCEPTION?? Any Idea why?
Edited on Sun Feb-06-05 09:12 PM by tommcintyre
Immediately after the 11/02 "theft", I exposed myself to as much info as I could on this subject. I can't document which source(s) gave me this impression (that Evoting is mandatory by 2006), but I was convinced that was the case until this new doc was posted in the last couple of weeks.

So I concluded I had picked up inaccurate info, and (hopefully) this was an isolated incident, and not many others had done so also. Now I see posted here that at least two state "powers that be" are laboring under the same misconception?

If we can, we need to identify the source(s) of where this falsehood is originating from, and "educate" where possible.

Anybody have any ideas of where this is originating from?

EDIT: Also, of course, it is an excellent idea that we deliver this doc to as many state election officials as possible. There are two groups in my state (Hawaii). I will verify this document has been appropriately disseminated.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I don't know
but I thought it was the case as well until I did the research, and as I've said, I really think these people believe what they are fed without actually taking the time to read for themselves. I was that way until I learned not to trust the media and this administration. I have no idea who is saying it's mandatory but you're right - we need to find out who is saying this to our election officials because that is NOT the case!
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. OK
So we have Utah being worked on, Hawaii, and someone mentioned Ohio, right?

Let's start hearing from those in other states willing to get this document to their state elections officials and local press and representatives.

Let's roll!
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. ACTION on this!
We need to provide copies or email the link to state and local elections officials. Or better yet, get a face-to-face appointment.

"Mythbreakers--Facts About Electronic Elections" --printout 70 pages
Here again is the pdf file: http://www.votersunite.org/takeaction/mythbreakers.pdf

www.votersunite.org (providers of this) would like to know where copies were distributed, but otherwise they encourage local activists to go ahead and use this in contacting officials.

This is an awesome compilation of ESSENTIAL Info on what happened in 04 and the problems with electronic systems.
:) ;) ;) :) :) 5 smilie rating
Keep Kicked
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. thank you thank you thank you!
What state are you in and can you cover it (or partially cover it)?
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
15. If you think this is the most important thing we can do to ensure
our votes count, then PLEASE nominate this thread! Thanks!
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
16. kick
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. thanks for the kick
Please don't let the size of the doc intimidate you - just send the table of contents out to get enough interest to read what they need to read.

Thank you!
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. yep--send the table of contents out
and the table of contents alone would make a good FAX.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. That's the BEST idea!
Edited on Mon Feb-07-05 10:03 AM by helderheid
You're right - so many ignore emails - FAX them the table of contents with a link to the document, or set up an appointment to deliver the document after faxing the table of contents. Excellent!

edited because I need coffee to avoid typos
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liberalla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 03:14 AM
Response to Original message
18. great information!
thank you!
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. thank you too - I hope you'll spread the word!
And please all y'all planning to spread the word, let us know what state you're covering. Thanks! :)
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
22. self kick and please nominate
Greenmutha, can you make this meeting tomorrow?

AGENDA



TO: Members of the House Government Operations Standing Committee

FROM: Rep. Douglas C. Aagard, Chair

Rep. Gregory H. Hughes, Vice Chair

RE: Committee Meeting



DATE: Tuesday, February 8, 2005

TIME: 8:00 AM

PLACE: Room W010, West Office Building, State Capitol Complex


- Call to order and approval of minutes

- The following bills are scheduled for consideration:



1. HB0211 Integrity of Election Results Amendments (J. Dougall)

(enw/jqc)

2. HB0099 State Fleet Vehicle Classification (E. Hutchings)

(enw/jqc)

3. HB0128 Compensation of Executive Officers (L. Christensen)

(jlf/jqc)

4. HB0142 Issues Submitted to Voters (G. Hughes)

(enw/jqc)

5. HB0281 Task Force on Legislative Reforms (N. Hansen)

(enw/jqc)

6. HB0291 Capitol Preservation Board Modifications (J. Alexander)

(enw/jqc)


COMMITTEE MEMBERS

Rep. Douglas C. Aagard, Chair

Rep. Gregory H. Hughes, Vice Chair

Rep. DeMar 'Bud' Bowman

Rep. Craig W. Buttars

Rep. Stephen D. Clark

Rep. Neil A. Hansen

Rep. Neal B. Hendrickson

Rep. Eric K. Hutchings

Rep. John G. Mathis

Rep. Aaron Tilton

Rep. Mark A. Wheatley

Committee Analyst: John Q. Cannon, Office of Legislative Research and General Counsel

Committee Secretary: Sylvia Newton
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. what's this about?
"Integrity of Election Results Amendment?"

Nominated...
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. thanks!
This is a bill proposed in Utah that doesn't require a paper trail. AAACCCKK!
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greenmutha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Kick and a nomination!
Unfortunately... I cannot make this meeting. I just PM'ed you.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
24. NEW MYTHBREAKERS DOCUMENT!!!
Edited on Mon Feb-07-05 12:06 PM by helderheid
They have updated their document - PLEASE use this new one!

http://www.votersunite.org/MB2.pdf

"This slightly renamed "revised edition" has been updated to include additional facts that have
emerged since the first edition was completed.
Information is always essential to making wise decisions. That premise is the basis for this
collection of facts, which is sort of a consumer's guide to voting systems. As the events
surrounding elections have become more publicized – especially after the 2004 General Election
— it has become clear that electronic elections bring with them many, many problems.
This booklet is simply a collection of relevant information; it is by no means an exhaustive work
on the issue. I offer it in the hope that it will help those reading it to make wise decisions
regarding our election systems.
Respectfully,
Ellen Theisen
VotersUnite!
ellen@votersunite.org"
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
26. http://www.votersunite.org/takeaction/distribute-mythbreakers.asp
http://www.votersunite.org/takeaction/distribute-mythbreakers.asp

Take Action:
Participate in the New Project Myth Breaker
Voters, unite to inform election officials, legislators, and the media.
Join with other activists throughout the nation to hand-deliver copies of this eye-opening information to your county and state decision-makers. Help distribute "Myth Breakers," second edition, to ALL local election officials in the country.

To be part of this nation-wide education campaign:

1) Check the status of the counties in your state.
2) Sign up for the counties where you will deliver Myth Breakers. You'll receive an email with a link you can use to let us know when you have delivered it.

3) Download this Myth Breakers file (774Kb, 1/19/05) and print it. Then copy it double-sided to deliver.


If you don't have Acrobat Reader,
which is required to view these files,
you can download it for free.
Click this icon.

Give them the real scoop about:
- HAVA misunderstandings
- examples of 2004 e-election disasters
- the truth about our testing processes
- price comparisons of voting systems
- hidden costs of DRE voting machines
- (paperless Direct Record Electronic)
- election complexities added by DREs
- increased human error with DREs
- other HAVA-compliant voting systems
- and more ...


4) Make a VotersUnite! T-shirt to wear (optional).
5) Look up your county official's contact information on Electionline's interactive map. Just click on your state, then click on your county, and look at the "Additional Information."


6) Hand deliver Myth Breakers to the election officials in the counties you signed up for. Tell them, "I'm with VotersUnite.org, a non-partisan group of citizens concerned about electronic voting. We want you to have the information you need to make wise decisions about our election systems, and we're delivering copies of "Myth Breakers" to every local election official in the country." You could also use a cover letter, such as this sample from West Virginia Citizens for HAVA.

7) Use the link in our email (step 2) to let us know when it's delivered.

Email us if you want to manage the project in your state or are willing to help mail copies that can't be hand-delivered.

Help get the word out by posting this message about the project on blogs and sending it out to your emailing list.

VotersUnite! has no funding. So, we need you and/or your group to bear the cost of making and distributing (possibly mailing) the copies within your state. However, have Excel files with the contact information for each of the county officials in nearly every state, and we can provide the information to you in whatever format would be helpful: mailing labels, Excel, Word, etc.


Democracy is not something you believe in
or a place to hang your hat,
but it's something you do.
You participate.
If you stop doing it, democracy crumbles.
~ Abbie Hoffman
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
28. kick for justice!
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sepia_steel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
29. kick
wtf did the idea come from that they all have to go electronic by 2006? Seen that so many times...
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blue4barb Donating Member (367 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
30. I just printed the Myth Breakers document!
It is about 70 pages, but I printed back to back.
The document is GREAT! Very, very informative with lots of documentation to back up the info.

I'm calling my county elections official this week to make an appointment to deliver/discuss this in person-- I think that's the most effective way in hopes it will actually be read. So far I'm the only one that's signed up for Michigan so hope other Michiganians will follow soon since it would be tough for me to cover the whole state. Thought I might try to post something about this in the Michigan forum.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Excellent!
I have it printed too and am faxing the table of contents to the county clerks, elections office, and the members of the House Government Operations Standing Committee here in Utah. I should have it all done by Wednesday. www.votersunite.org suggest printing it out and getting it copied double sided so it's less of a stack to go through. I plan to do that Wednesday.

ONWARD!:)

THANK YOU for doing this!
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
32. HAVA still allows punchcards as well.
it is the states that are outlawing them.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Yes I saw that
This whole mess is INSANE. Andy, who is feeding this horse shit to the election officials? do you know?
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. by the way
glad to see you here! :)
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JohnGideon Donating Member (492 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
35. Thank You All....
The fact that you all are reading and passing "Myth Breakers" on to your state officials is very gratifying. I forwarded the link to this thread to my associate, Ellen Theisen, who worked long hours to get "Myth Breakers" written and on-line. She is not a poster on DU but she passes on her thanks to all of you. It's wonderful that you all are reading this and realizing that there is a lot of misinformation being spread around.

Let me address the misinformation. Some of you have asked about who is spreading the lies about what HAVA requires and what it doesn't require. The misinformation is coming from folks like "The Election Center" (a group that was formed to inform elections officials about issues but also a group that receives large donations from the voting machine industry)and the ITAA (a paid lobbying and public relations group). If you read news articles on voting machines you will see the lies in print because that's what the media is being told.

Here in Washington state the mis-information is coming from the Secretary of State's office as was pointed out in another posting on this thread. They want those DRE machines throughout the state and they want to control whether a voter verified paper ballot will be used or whether voter verification software (VoteHere) is used.

If you see articles that make mis-statements, write an LTTE and send the writer of the article and his/her editor an email and politely point out that they are passing on incorrect information. We have to fight back against the mis-informers and inform correctly while we are at it.

Make copies of the document. It's set-up to be printed double-side. Make copies and take them to your election officials. Let us know who you have given copies to so we can keep track.

Thank you all again. We appreciate the kind words.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Hi John!
Please tell Ellen "Hi from Clarity in Utah" :) She's been a terrific help. I plan on writing her later today about the status of a bill here we are trying to get amended (as I type) to have VVPB added into the bill. Every member on the committee has been faxed the table of contents of MB and will be presented with the entire document at the committee meeting this morning (right now actually)!
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
37. small victory in Utah
Bill went from stating:

General Description:
9 This bill amends election law and the duties of the chief election officer to require that
10 voting equipment produces an auditable record of votes cast.

49 (b) use that system in any election, in all or a part of the voting precincts within its
50 boundaries, or in combination with paper ballots.

to:
General Description:
9 This bill amends election law and the duties of the chief election officer to require that
10 voting equipment produces an auditable record of votes cast.
11 Highlighted Provisions:
12 This bill:
13 < amends the Election Code to require that voting equipment be capable of producing
14 an auditable, voter verified paper trail of votes cast in order to be certified for use;
15 < amends the duties of the chief election officer to require that any voting equipment
16 purchased be capable of producing an auditable, voter verified paper trail of votes
17 cast;

(xiii) produce a permanent paper record that is available for the voter's inspection prior
the voter leaving the voting booth that:
(A) shall be available as an official record for any recount or challenge conducted with
respect to an election where the automated voting system is used;
(B) shall include human readable printing which shall be the ultimate record of the
voter's intent;
(C) may also include machine readable printing, which may be the same as the human
readable printing; and
(D) allows poll watchers and poll counters to observe the election process to ensure its
integrity.


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JohnGideon Donating Member (492 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Good Work in Utah
Keep us posted on what is going on. I know that there are a lot of dedicated activists working with the Utah legislators and that you all have been demanding when it was necessary. All of your work will pay off in the end, hopefully.
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
38. Hearing in Honolulu today at 2:00
Jason Forester has done an awesome job, volunteered countless hours of great work, to get a bill for an auditable paper trail (HB 1740)

It looks pretty good here. The elections officials want to go paperless. Grrr!

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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. GOOD LUCK!
:) I'll be sending our victory vibes to Hawaii!
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Mahalo! Next...clean elections bill Friday...
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. Let me get this straight.
1. The Hawaii phone company is owned by the Carlyle Group.

2. The voting machines will be paperless, transmitting their totals to the central tabulators via modems.

3. The modems will be connected to the telephone network, owned and operated by the Carlyle Group.

4. The phone numbers for the central tabulators will be easily obtained by anyone high enough up in the Carlyle Group, without even having to visit the tabulation site.

5. Because of the timezone difference, the last 4 electoral votes in the country to be counted will still be subject to tabulation long after the polls have closed on the mainland.

6. So, in any election decided by 4 electoral votes or less, the Presidency will be at risk not only from any inherent lack of security in the hardware, software and human factors, but also due to the ease with which the owners of the phone company can connect to the tabulators, because they know the frickin' phone numbers!

7. Add this to any other potential advantage that might accrue from having complete access to the phone, DSL, and other records that a phone company with political ties might have in a state, and you have an interesting situation in Hawaii.

Yeah, Voter-verified Paper Ballots might be a good idea for Hawaii. And don't forget to audit that paper randomly too, OK?
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Manchurian Global, here we come!
I had no idea they owned PHONE COMPANIES TOO! I bet with a bit of snooping we'd find many an internet provider as well.
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-05 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. You can't make this stuff up!
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Sucks ya?
We're looking good so far, only hangup will be in the finance committee from what I hear. I am not in the middle of this, just helping out. Really really critical. As I said in my testimony, if an auditable paper trail is not important for our elections, what is?

We cannot replace a system that is in place now that is safe and auditable with one that is not. No F'ing way.
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-05 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. Good luck!
I think HI was or is some sort of backup plan for the next coup, in case things get close in the EV columns stateside. It wouldn't be the first time HI has decided a Presidential election, I'm sure you know. Spread the word, will ya? And vote Blue for your state officials (while it still counts!).

Peace.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-05 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. if it still counts!
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-05 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. Ya, I felt that way too. I really did.
If we would have made the difference, I think the small number of paperless machines introduced into this election would have been screwed with to get the result they want. I hope I'm not paranoid, but I have seen they will do what ever it takes to win. They feel justified, where we still value corny 'quaint' ideas like right and wrong. Thank God.

And regarding Carlysle,( that was you I hope?) they are selling Verizon. So that's good. But no less outrageous.

Also one good thing about the Dean organization here was that we pretty much moved right into tackling other matters, such as safe voting and clean elections. We are not going away. :)
Aloha and thanks !
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Aloha!
They're SELLING the HI Telco now???!

So they bought it in time for the election, they didn't need it because they got what they wanted in FL and OH, and NOW, they're SELLING it? AMAZING! Who's the buyer???

Someone should see if they're actually making money on the quick turn-around or not. If not, then there must have been another motivation!
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