Go Georgia Activists! Great News from them!

[Andy_Stephenson]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Wednesday, February 16, 2005

For further information, contact:

Roxanne Jekot
Communications Coordinator, Voter Choice Coalition
[e-mail]

Diverse Coalition Mobilizes
To Support Voter-Verified Paper Ballots

An unusual alliance of liberal and conservative organizations as well as
nonprofit, public interest groups are joining forces in support of the
Georgia Vote Count Protection Act, nonpartisan legislation drafted by
the Georgia Voter Choice Coalition, that mandates the provision of
voter-verified paper ballots for Georgia’s paperless Diebold Election
System. The growing momentum includes in the mix the Georgia Green
Party, Libertarian Party, Constitution Party and Independent Party; the
Christian Coalition of Georgia, the Cobb County National Organization of
Women (NOW); and the Georgia Eagle Forum. Nationally, the act is
endorsed by Common Cause, the National Ballot Integrity Project,
Veterans for Common Sense, Verifiedvoting.org, VotersUnite and Votewatch.

Citizen concerns about paperless voting have mounted since the
installation of the Diebold Election System in Georgia in 2002. Their
concerns have been heightened by recent studies, such as the one issued
in September 2004 by the Free Congress Foundation, who warned that
Georgia has one of worst voting system implementations in the nation.
The foundation issued a report grading Georgia’s system an F- on a
national average of C+. (http://www.voterchoice.org/library/fminus.htm)

Electronic voting machines can be accidentally or intentionally
programmed in a variety of ways to record and count the vote differently
from what the voter intends. Additional problems arise in paperless
implementations, because there is no mechanism to conduct a recount
independently of the election tally that is computed by the system’s
software.

“These major flaws will be rectified with the passage of this
legislation. In providing for voter-verified paper ballots that will be
counted at the precinct level, voters gain an auditing mechanism to
compare to the electronic tally,” said Anne Merkl, chair of the Voter
Choice Coalition. “We believe very strongly that securing the integrity
of our elections should be at the top of the 2005 legislative agenda.”

With the start on January 10th of the 2005 session of the General
Assembly, the time is ripe to move forward with efforts to provide
citizens with legislation that will restore confidence and legitimacy to
the voting process in Georgia. Adoption of the Vote Count Protection Act
provides the necessary legislation to do just that.

For background information and to review the proposed legislation, go
to: http://www.voterchoice.org/


Links to endorser websites:
Christian Coalition of Georgia: http://www.gachristiancoalition.org/
Cobb County National Organization for Women: http://www.cobbnow.org/
Free Congress Foundation: http://www.freecongress.org/
National Ballot Integrity Project: http://www.ballotintegrity.org
Verified Voting: http://www.verifiedvoting.org
Veterans for Common Sense: http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/
Voters Unite: http://www.votersunite.org
Votewatch: http://www.votewatch.us

[JohnGideon]

1. Thanks For Posting This, Andy

The amazing thing is the coalition of organizations who have endorsed this legislation. Who would have thought that Ralph Reed and the Christian Coalition would be in agreement with NOW and CommonCause.

This bill is possibly the best legislation that any state will have. The Diebold DREs will be mere expensive pencils and the ballots will be counted by hand at the poll sites.

This bill can be a model for every other state in the union and the broad coalition of groups can be used by activists in every state to influence good legislation.

Look for more news coming from Georgia soon.

[Cookie wookie]

9. We've got quite a group of endorsers for our legislation

The Voter Choice Coalition is working on sponsors for it. The clock is ticking but we're still hopeful. In the meantime, if you have a group that wants to read the legislation and add their names to the roster of endorsers, let us know.

The legislation is available at the website: http://www.voterchoice.org

Wish us luck.

[Wilms]

2. Yes. Yes. Being appalled by DRE's is a Bi-Partisan condition. n/t

[fooj]

3. Thanks for the post! How the hell are you feeling?

[Andy_Stephenson]

5. Well...

fatigued and anxious.

I need a nap.

[bush_is_wacko]

6. Any word from your doctors yet?

I'm a little worried about your yellowness (meant in place of "your highness." Really not trying to be mean just cheer you up!) Hope there is good news soon!

[Andy_Stephenson]

7. See the GI

tomorrow. And may I say...I hope it is the last doctor I see for a while.

Most Doctors are good for one thing...SCARING the shit out of you.

[bush_is_wacko]

13. I agree! but sometimes they can also save your life.

It's a double edged sword that I have swallowed often. Don't worry, it upsets your gallbladder. I know easy for me to say right now. I'm not facing it! Try to get a good nights sleep OK?

[Amaryllis]

4. See this thread: Diebold PROMOTES open software for ATMs, not for voting

systems, though. Open software is secure enough for banking but not for voting. Hello?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x328130

[Helga Scow Stern]

8. That is downright inspiring. n/t

[Cookie wookie]

10. Scoop/New Zealand picked this up

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/WO0502/S00500.htm

[msongs]

11. ??? for using this act in CALIFORNIA?..............................

hello, have copied your voter reform proposal, which is full of references to the Georgia law codes. we want to strip that stuff out and rewrite it as a ballot initiative type thing for California.

have you suggestions on how to phrase your terms without referencing specific georgia law? of course we can try to distill the essence on our own, but thought any of you readers might have ideas.

we also have copied many ideas to be included in election reform things,
including open source codes, etc, but we really want to get away from e-voting at all.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[rigel99]

12. Congrats VCC.... how to Get Bill in hands of Federal Legislative Efforts..

my most sincere congratulations to all on the VCC.... good work and great press release!

now , can you pass your bill around to Boxer/Clinton/Conyers/Dodd/Holt/Ensign and establish the primacy and importance of counting the paper?

Let's have a conf. call to educate the folks on these staffs.....
started a working subgroup of winter democracy campaign calls... send email if you want to join the discussion...

Glad to see the direct attack on electronic voting in the release....

[Cookie wookie]

15. It isn't a bill yet, it's legislation

Dodd helped kill SB500 last year and at least one other state had legislation that was undermined by the same letter he wrote. This letter was distributed by Secretary of State Cathy Cox to the SLOGO committee while we were trying to get the bill passed in the Senate. Had to post it here because I haven't been able to find it online:

"Committee on House Administration
1309 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515-6157
[phone]
www.house.gov/cha
March 3, 2004
Attention Members and Staff:
Dear Colleague:

As the principal authors of the Help America Vote Act (Public Law 107-252) (HAVA), signed into law by President Bush on October 29, 2002, we feel compelled to express our concerns about recent legislative efforts that promise enhanced electronic voting system security. Various proposals have been introduced in the House and Senate, but a common feature of these bills is they would amend HAVA to require that all voting systems, including electronic and computer-based systems, produce or accommodate a "voter verified paper record." Not only are such proposals premature, but they would undermine essential HAVA provisions, such as the disability and language minority access requirements, and could result in more, rather than less, voter disenfranchisement and error.

We are certainly aware of the alleged concerns that have been raised in recent months regarding security issues associated with computer-based voting systems and technologies, especially Direct Recording Electronic (DRE) voting systems. These concerns are neither new nor unanticipated by HAVA. To address security-related issues, HAVA creates a Technical Guidelines Development Committee, chaired by the Director of the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), to assist the new Election Assistance Commission (EAC) in developing guidelines and standards to ensure the reliability of the computer technologies being employed in voting systems. These standards will focus not only on the security of computer and network hardware and software and data storage, but also on the detection and prevention of fraud and the protection of voter privacy. Additionally, HAVA provides that the testing and certification of voting system hardware and software must take place in accredited laboratories. NIST initiated this process with a two-day public conference this past December, 2003.

The goal of HAVA is to ensure that every eligible American has an equal opportunity to cast a vote and have that vote counted. HAVA does not mandate the use of DRE systems. It does require, however, that voting systems be enhanced to avoid the errors and accessibility problems associated with antiquated systems, such as punch cards. Computer-based voting systems have a demonstrated track record of achieving this goal, particularly for persons with disabilities. While there are risks associated with any technology, the solution is not to rush to judgment by returning to flawed systems. Rather, the answer is to allow the Commission, together with the active input of election officials, computer experts, and civil rights groups representing voter interests, to develop standards for ensuring the security of all voting systems, as required under HAVA.

The proposals mandating a voter-verified paper record would essentially take the most advanced generations of election technologies and systems available and reduce them to little more than ballot printers. While such an approach may be one way to address DRE security issues, it would, if adopted, likely give rise to numerous adverse unintended consequences. Most importantly, the proposals requiring a voter-verified paper record would force voters with disabilities to go back to using ballots that provide neither privacy nor independence, thereby subverting a hallmark of the HAVA legislation. There must be voter confidence in the accuracy of an electronic tally. However, the current proposals would do nothing to ensure greater trust in vote tabulations but would be guaranteed to impose steep costs on States and localities and introduce new complications into the voting process.

Questions regarding voting systems security, as well as many others, need to be examined by the entity responsible for doing so under existing law, the Election Assistance Commission, before Congress begins imposing new requirements, just months before the 2004 presidential and congressional elections, that have not been fully considered. The security of voting technology is a non-partisan issue. We encourage you to allow HAVA to be implemented as enacted and provide those who are charged with ensuring the security of voting systems the time and flexibility needed to get the job done effectively.

Sincerely,

S/REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT W. NEY
S/REPRESENTATIVE STENY HOYER
S/SENATOR MITCH MCCONNELL
S/SENATOR CHRISTOPHER J. DODD"

Especially note the sentence from paragraph 4: "Most importantly, the proposals requiring a voter-verified paper record would force voters with disabilities to go back to using ballots that provide neither privacy nor independence, thereby subverting a hallmark of the HAVA legislation.

Now look at this photo: http://www.aitechnology.com/votetrakker2/

It sure looks like Dodd to me (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that). If it's Dodd, then he's looking directly at Avante's voting system which includes not only technology for voter verified paper ballots, but note the headphones the woman is wearing as well as the information at the bottom of the page, "100% accessibility for voters with various types of disabilities." That accessibility is because those with disabled eyesight can hear a script of what is on the screen as well as what is printed on the ballot. The date on the website is a couple of weeks after Dodd signed the letter, but Avante was in Atlanta demonstrating the equipment a few weeks prior to this date. Did Dodd sign that letter in ignorance of the fact that sentence in the letter above is untruthful or is someone who co-wrote HAVA just plain ignorant?

[Cookie wookie]

16. As to his recommendation to wait for "standards" to be written by the EAC

"Rather, the answer is to allow the Commission, together with the active input of election officials, computer experts, and civil rights groups representing voter interests, to develop standards for ensuring the security of all voting systems, as required under HAVA."

The EAC is run by politically appointed commissioners (* appointees). They are also underfunded. They have also expressed a preference for paperless evoting systems.

I've seen some of their Commission's witnesses, the so-called "election officials, computer experts, and civil rights groups representing voter interests." While there have been a few who represent alternative points of view to paperless evoting, most are backers, like Meg Smothers of the Ga League of Women's Voters, Cathy Cox and representatives of the big voting machine vendors.

What many fail to understand, because those who have a stake in keeping evoting don't want it said, is that anything the EAC creates in the way of standards will have to be voluntary for states. HAVA mandates are NOT mandates but guidelines.

[rigel99]

29. Agreed.. it's legislation...

but if we don't get this in the hands of Alicia for instance of pdamerica.org who are supporting the Conyers bill and other bills that don't require counting the paper, we need to get all of the other groups out there as advocates for the concept..

the problem, is we need to educate like crazy nationally, because they could pass a federal bill that states have to adopt and then local efforts are wasted...

the legislation you guys wrote is awesome.. I'm just saying someone in your group should actively sell the concept of it nationally to Boxer/Clinton's staff, to Conyer's staff, to PDA, to the election reform groups that thing audits are just fine.... on and on...

I don't have time for this, I'm on the legal angle fulltime... I'm just hoping someone in your group will take a national position, join our Tues. night Winter democracy calls (see info below for times/call in #) and start lobbying federally for the same awesome aspects you guys have drafted in your legislation...

WOOPS email me if you want the conference call information....

We have a subcommittee focused entirely on educating about why 'counting the paper' matters... We've all agreed there needs to be a educational piece to take nationally to the other bill sponsors out there....

[berniew1]

14. Some EIRS data for Georgia re: 2004 election problems

Georgia TS & DT & Suppr http://www.flcv.com/claytong.html
http://www.flcv.com/georgia.html

[Cookie wookie]

17. And here's our Secretary of State Cathy Cox

giving good pr and marketing statement for Diebold, featured on their DESI home page:

http://www6.diebold.com/dieboldes/default.htm

[flyarm]

18. having a problem here in florida!!

i swear..i have been trying my best to get it into the people who "think" they know what they are doing..that it is not paper "trails" that we want ...i swear i feel like i am hitting my head with a bat!!

each time i tell someone who is working on the voting policies..i keep getting stuff back in email..we are working on paper trails...and i say nooooooooo..thats not what we want..and the dec here puts people in charge of this stuff who are clueless...then we have this little group who did some dre testing with a little help from bev harris..and here we go again..back to the "paper trails" that they want!...

well i was a poll watcher and i can tell you it is a worthless proceedure..the soe or anyone who works for them can keep a poll watcher as far away from the machines ..so you can't even hear if anyone has a problem...well ..anyway we have another election here march 8th and they were emailing me looking for poll watchers..well i was a poll watcher at large..and i wrote back that they need a forensic scientist who can look into the machines ..or tabulator..or they are wasting their time..and i asked this little voter group if they would stop saying paper trails..that if they continue to ask for the wrong thing..that they are doing nothing but wasting time...i asked them to please educate themselves..and i said what we need is ...

voter verified paper ballots...or forget it.. we will be screwed as long as we have the dre's

i am telling you... a few people with little information is more dangerous than anything!
i sent these people several articles pointing out voter verified paper ballots...and tonight i tried to send this ... andy ,about the georgia voter verified paper ballots..and they blocked me from sending them anything...wtf...people dont want to learn..they want to pretend they know something to ... i dont know... elevate their egos or something...but damn ...they didnt want me to send them anymore facts..or articles to educate them...

i am ready to give up here in fla..i swear!!

we have repug infiltrators in our dec who literally worked for scientology and they were kicked out once and now are brought back in..i am really ready to give up...
and i was a delegate people...i care... i care so much ..and yet its like we are defeating ourselves!! ..from the inside out..
i have gone to dem clubs and spoken for over a year about these machines..and now they put people in charge who haven't a clue what they are doing or asking for ...i really think i am going nuts!!

fly

[rigel99]

19. FL needs you flyarm... please don't go nuts...

it may seem like your hard work is not getting anywhere..

i feel the same, as I drown in boxes of DRE tapes that are a meaningless fake piece of crap that I'm supposed to think represents our votes.

but let me tell you something positive... there are lawsuits being launched in 4 states that I know of challenging DREs.. the legislative efforts will dovetail the legal will dovetail the legislative.

it will succeed. the same way boxer stood up and is succeeding in building a revolution around voting.. do not get upset with activists (even those in the reform community) who have not understood... it took me many months and I still am fuzzy around the edges.. the bottom line is for you to activate yourself in ways you feel empowered.. write letters for instance asking to see a copy of your ballot (there is none in DRE voting), ask to see the contract between FL and the DRE vendor.. all this should be open records to you... ask to get a list of the DRE technicians... then write each county separately and ask to see a list of the county poll workers... why?

well, the pollworkers have to take oaths.. did the DRE technicians take oaths? probably not.... write letters to the SOS son of a #%#*% and put them on the spot.. they write really awesome squirm letters that truly are fun to read... let me quote Britt Williams for a moment, just to cheer you up...in GA we were not content to outsource to Diebold, but we further outsourced the task of elections to KSU Kennesaw State university and there is a professor there, Dr. Britt Williams who monthly gets his pockets lined to lie in public about how wonderful these things are... here, visit this link and read the full letter.. here's the paraphrase...

http://www.countpaperballots.com/williams-response.htm
"I am writing in response to your open records request.... I am retired".... "as I mentioned above I am retired from my faculty appointment at Kennesaw State University. I perform limited contract services for the Secretary of State (notice slip how it's directly for Cathy and not the office of the sec. of state... freudian slip) however these services do not place me in a position to have access to any of the information which you requested".. blah blah blah.. I'm not accountable and please don't sue me is what that sounds like..

write letters.. I swear it cheers me up every day to get another letter or another box of fraud from some remote bumf**#% county in GA... get active... start your legal case... and keep trying to educate the folks who don't get it....

we will succeed in the end if we all work together... do not lose hope........ battle onward reformist!

[flyarm]

23. i have done most of that..i even ..

snuck into a meeting with soe for press only about some firings after the election ..and i even got her new elections book she handed out to media..i passed myself off as a reporter..( never lied and never showed any i.d...i just looked it and acted it!)..and i asked questions at the end in front of all the media about poll watcher intimidation..i worked at doing tests in december.,.and what does our dec do..they put people in charge of the voting issues who have no clue what the hell they are doing or talking about...i am very frustrated..and disgusted!!

the guy they put in charge is a media whore...not a worker or not in the least informed!!

right after election the local media wanted to interview me...i said no...i would not allow them to put a tin foil hat on me..i was too busy trying to prove we had fraud here..i would not allow anything so serious to be made into a joke...so i said no and i said why..so what does this guy do..when i wouldnt do an interview.,.he did it..and he made a total fool of himself..and a fool of all of us who were doing serious work...
i was calling daily the lawyers who were here for kerry and i was calling other poll watchers getting stories..then in one swift interview this guy had us get smeared as nut cases...so then everyone shut up and kept saying move on..now this guy is the one they put in charge of the voting stuff.,.i am just so frustrated...

and not because i want to do it..i dont..i am retired a little over a year and have not had one day of retirement..but dang it..at least put someone in who is not a repug infiltrator or who is just a media whore but wont do whats nessesary to get informed...

look false info is as bad as the system in place..we have dre's ..they are just asking for paper trails to the machines...what the hell good is that..and now i just read in the uk guardian that jeb is at it again...read this..we are forever doomed here!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-4806172,00.html

snip:
The measures would also establish the secretary - the current officeholder is Republican Glenda Hood - as the ultimate referee when disputes arise from different interpretations of election law by county supervisors.

The proposals appear to give the secretary sweeping powers and could create a showdown with the 67 county supervisors. The proposals also were not discussed in advance with leaders of the Florida House and Senate.


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxi am going to do a campaign to get dean down here..if we dont clean it out..we are just screwed..
i have tried so hard..and i feel now like its a losing battle!

a tearful fly

[rigel99]

28. Dean will and Can help...

let me know if I can put a good word with Dean.. I'm trying to schedule a conference call with him about all the lawsuits on election fraud being waged nationwide..

Your efforts are amazing... really... it can be so upsetting.I quite a 6 digit job to do this.. it's pissing me off.... but when we sue and get big damage awards.. we'll all go out for a good time!

hang in there.... if you need Dean inner circle contacts, let me know I can ping you with some folks....

[flyarm]

31. OHH PLEASE ABSOLUTELY!! I NEED HELP HERE WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE

SO CALLED working on election reform as well they are clueless..they call themselves election reform and yet have not a clue what the hell they are talking about..i email them and i say the same thing over and over and then get emails back calling for paper trails on the dre's..i feel like the dog chasing its tail..would you be willing to discuss it with some here in pinellas fla??
they are going to run a forum ..in march..and they are calling for frigging paper trails..geez..i just can't take it much more...its just like trying to pass a hair through cement!either that or would you be willing to speak to our new dec chair??..or yes please have deans people contact me..i know..we have rnc infiltrators who are trying to muddy the waters...and the new people have no clue that these scientology people are tied to the hip of the * regime...the one guy can be googled...and he had to resign working for the city of clearwater , as economic developer..who was pivitol for bringing and allowing scientology into clearwater..
goggle him look here for one spot on him..i dont want to put his name..its here top article !
our dec just let him in and made him in charge of greivances..of all things..i am furious!

http://www.sptimes.com/Archive/022301/Northpinellas.shtml

i housed the kerry rep for 7 months with me for the campaign..well the kid(29 yrs old) was approached by this guy ..(after
this guy got claws in..and b.s'ed this kid) to join scientology..well i went nuts..and i forbade any of the jkerry kids letting this guy anywhere near the data bases....now our dec lets him in and puts him in charge of grievences..wtf??

yes we need help here..we have a chance of winning here ..we won for kerry..it just got robbed..and i know that..i just do!!

listen to this about our soe debra clark..you will have no doubt...either...please listen and listen to the whole thing about the gambling bill the whole shabang and about our soe's husband!!

listen to jan 18th!!
Archives for Dave Emory
http://www.wfmu.org/playlists/DX

this is the one to listen to!! and you will see what we are up against!!

January 18, 2005: FTR #494: "Another Interview with Daniel Hopsicker about Electoral Fraud" | Listen

thanks for any help you can get me..
fly


and i sent them all the stuff about him thats on goggle...

[Amaryllis]

20. What's dec stand for? Hang in there, Fly. Take a breath, take a break, go

to a movie, go to the beach. Pace yourself. It's a numbers game. You keep planting seeds, some sprout, some don't. Eventually you reach the hundredth monkey and it starts to change exponentially.

[flyarm]

24. dec is democratic executive committee..and

thanks sweetie for the movie idea..funny i live right on the beach and haven't seen it in over a year!!

but my agenda is different than most...my co -workers were killed on 9/11 i know what that loss means first hand..and i know how dangerous these bastards in this white house are..up front i know...i can not just walk the beach innocently any longer...
i have a son..i can not allow this to go on..not for me..but for him!!

i have no choice...this is life and death to me. i took off out of ewr the morning of 9/11 it could have been me...it could have been my son on a pass...i stood at the burning wtc..and knew and could smell my coworkers...i feel they are with me always pushing me on...i have no choice.

fly

[Zan_of_Texas]

22. flyarm - good rant!

I have one almost every day.

<G>

Here's the thing. There are a lot of new people in this verifiable election movement. They DO think they know a lot, when they know only a little. We can't win with just the people who know a lot -- it will take educating more people. Sometimes I just want to attach a funnel to their heads and pour!

Meanwhile, there are the bad guys, who keep trying to confuse things with misstatements, spins, and outright lies. They keep trying to fudge the paper into a "paper trail," like our own local election official did, confusing the issue with that roll of paper that comes out of the DRE at the end of the day. Plus, they use the disabled as a shield, to hide the inadequacies of the DREs.

The devil is in the details here.

I want to kick the DREs out completely -- I don't trust recounts now, after Ohio. I want paper, counted in the precinct. I want it right, unassailable, the first time.

Meanwhile, if your newbies refuse to learn, maybe you need to take a deep breath. And recruit some more people to work more on the bringing them up to speed portion of the program. Talks and slide shows are good.

Here's a good bibliography -- ask them to read one article every three days or something.

SELECT BIBLIOGRAPHY - ELECTION REFORM ISSUES

http://www.votersunite.org/info/select_bibliography.asp

[flyarm]

25. thanks i guess i did need to rant!!

but i got so angry when the gal sending stuff out blocked my email cause she doesnt like it that i tell them they are wrong and need to educate themselves..i have offered to talk to them and help them find the answers..well the bitch blocked my email..its like they dont want anyone to know the truth..and they dont as well...

ahhh i am just frustrated with it all...

well i wont poll watch again..its a damn waste of time!

and alot of effort for something meaningless!

anyway thanks all for listening to my rant..i think i needed to get it off my chest..i always try to be so positive..and help ful...but some times it just gets to you!!

hugs to you all for being the fighters and truth seekers...

fly

[Cookie wookie]

30. Working as poll watchers is an important task.

Duties poll watchers performed for the 2004 election when evoting machines were being monitored included watching to make sure procedures were followed correctly for zero totals and end of day tapes/tally, monitoring how tapes and voter access cards are handled, hourly rectification of ballots cast per public counter on voting machines with voter certificates submitted, etc.

VoteWatch, Common Cause and other organizations organized massive poll watching efforts in 2004, so for future elections check with those organizations and other voting watchdog groups for information on what is being done/needed.

As far as the semantics of using the language "paper trail" vs. "ballot", it's less important what words are used, unless you are writing legislation or talking to elections' officials, than that the public understand what's needed to fix their paperless evoting systems or conversely why, if they don't already have evoting implemented in their localities, they need to be informed about the serious problems reported with such systems.

The only real misunderstanding I've seen that caused problems arose from our SOS officials telling the public that activists wanted a receipt to take home with them, which wasn't true, but did serve to confuse the public enough on the issue to be problematic.

It's frankly silly to get in a tailspin over semantics. Educating the public on the issue is hard work, which is why teaching is a profession. It takes thorough knowledge of the subject matter, the ability to package that knowledge in a way that people of all levels of understanding and have the ability can comprehend, and most of all patience.

There is a steep learning curve on the evoting issue, but some things can be communicated on a very basic level:

1) Using paperless evoting requires that the voter "trust" elected officials and vendors with counting their vote

2) The evoting process is so complex that it is opaque, the average voter can not know with any degree of certainty that their vote was counted and counted as they intended.

3) Outsourcing the voting process to for-profit vendors, without healthy mechanisms that the public can use to make the aggregation and vote counting process transparent, leaves too much room for the worst in human nature to assert itself.

4) When walls -- vendors, proprietary software, certifying agencies, policies and procedures that aren't transparently available to voters, paid technicians, etc -- when all these barriers and complexities to the voting process stand between the public and the vote counting, we have in effect had our right to vote taken away from us because custody of our vote has been moved from the public to the private domain.

[flyarm]

33. yeah sure and how about when you have a guy running soe

office that wont let any poll watchers any hwere near the room where the machines and voters are??

i did it..2 weeks of early vote..some days 14 & 15 hours..and i was treated with horrible intimidation here in sw fla..we had a slew of lawyers here by kerry..and this good ole boy as the ny lawyers called him would not let us any where near the machines.,..not in the morning nor the end of the day to even look at the machines let alone get numbers off them!
and the good ole boy had * stuff out on tables right on the tables with the absentee samples..and they were only removed when i called in the lawyers..and then the lawyers got into a shouting match with the soe superviors good ole boy running that office!

the ny lawyers were stunned at the intimidation we were taking and when they were leaving..they said..now we understand what you are up against!!

and then i for several days had to put up with this guy staring at me with an evil grin..good thing i am a jersey girl and tough..cause he could not intimidate me..but anyone less sure of them selves would have left crying!
and what did i accomplish being there..nothing!
i was not allowed by machines in morning nor night to get numbers or even see the machines..they had me the whole time in a chair way out in the lobby no where near the machines..and told me i could not talk to anyone or say anything..i had to sit in silence
i couldnt even hear if any one had a problem registering.
i was isolated where they made me sit.
it may work good in some places but not in jebs state!

fly

[Cookie wookie]

37. Were you working as a poll watcher for a political party?

Or organization? What county?

[Peace Patriot]

flyarm, we have a lot to face here, and it's not pretty, and it can be...

...extremely disillusioning and frustrating. I just went through this thing in Calif. where it was the DEMOCRATIC LEADERS, goddamn them, who did the shark attack on our anti-Diebold Sec of State Kevin Shelley (who not only decertified and sued Diebold, but provided Californians with a paper ballot option for the 2004 election). It was very shocking what just happened here.

But here are some things I've realized along the way, and although they are very difficult to face, they might help you in your present state. At first, they may seem like piling on, like trying to drive you to despair. But I think despair comes when you EXPECT people to be better than they are, and don't know why they aren't, and when you EXPECT things--our democracy, for instance--to work right, to be responsive--and don't understand what's wrong, why it's not working.

So...this is a cold shower. But, ultimately, a cold shower of truth can lift your spirits, be invigorating, because you can then stop battling shadows. You know what's what. So, here goes:

1. How is it that the Democratic national leadership DIDN'T NOTICE that Wally O'Dell and H. Ahmanson would be counting all our votes in secret? --and how is it that they didn't scream bloody murder about this INHERENTLY fraudulent voting SYSTEM? (I mean, secret, proprietary source code owned by BushCons...come on.)

2. How is it that the Democratic national leadership, from their own internal polls and vote predictions, don't know that Kerry won? (i.e., Gore 2000 voters + huge Democratic blowout in voter registration in 2004 (Dem 57%, Repub 41%) + big jump of Nader voters to Kerry = 4 to 8 million votes that Kerry should have gotten, and didn't, in the official tally). Why are they acting like they don't know this?

3. Why is a Democratic head of elections in Los Angeles, Connie McCormack, INSANELY--and, for a Democrat, SUICIDALLY--attached to PAPERLESS voting?

These and related conundrums (f.i., why you would face resistance in a local Dem group) have got to be considered, and understood, and solved, so that we can look at the condition of our democracy with CLEAR EYES.

The other night I was thinking about the Boston Tea Party. Tea was the centerpiece of the colonial economy. It was no small deal to them. That's why it was TEA that went into Boston Harbor. And what is the centerpiece of our economy today? Computers.

So, a lot of what's going on is CORRUPTION--people who are attached to electronic voting because they're being PAID TO, or are coveting some job in the computer voting mega-industry after their "public service," or were in such a job before their "public service," or have committed themselves professionally to be e-voting "experts" and may not be directly corrupt, but are very biased, and LIKE knowing what most citizens can't know: how our votes are counted. There is this group: The Tea Merchants, call them.

Some are elected officials. Some are not. All MAKE A FAT LIVING off of e-voting. (And why would this lot be so attached to PAPERLESS voting, or to meaningless "paper trails"? Because they don't want these precious machines questioned--which, to them, would mean loss of money, prestige, careers, power!)

Billions and billions of dollars involved. And this group influences and dictates to the sheeple in the little Democratic clubs around the country.

But it's even worse than this. You can't tell me that the DNC and Kerry's campaign leaders didn't know about Wally O'Dell and H. Ahmanson. I'm sorry, but it's their job description to GET VOTES. And they didn't know what was going on here? No way.

But there is another factor involved, and that is that most of the national leadership was IN FAVOR OF the Iraq war. Most of the Dem leaders in Congress voted FOR it. And Kerry NEVER spoke against the invasion; he only said he would have done the whole thing better. So THAT is the Democratic Party position on this most deceitful and foulest of wars.

...motivated, I think, by a combo of things--big defense contracts, keeping the rich rich by keeping this five decade long war economy going, desire to corner all the oil left on earth for US use or profit, desire to have US forces surrounding and protecting Israel--and having all of this with the blame for the deaths and the costs on Bush's head, not theirs.

All the Dem leaders are millionaires and live in a plastic bubble of wealth and power above all the rest of us. Got to face it. It is the truth. And they are beholden to corporations--military, high tech, global--and not to us.

Further, they had little interest in ousting Bush until Dean and the grass roots entered the picture. Then they deprived us of our antiwar candidate and gave us Kerry. And we decided to shine that on, and just get Bush out--and deal with Kerry and the Iraq war later. And we did it--we blew Bush out of the water. Then what? Then the DNC and Kerry--after promising to "count every vote"--walked away from the biggest election fraud, outside of Stalinist Russia, in the history of faux governments.

We HAVE TO FACE that some of the Democratic leadership--maybe a lot of it--has been IN COLLUSION to deny majority rule.

Nearly 60% of Americans STILL oppose the Iraq war, now, today. 63% oppose torture under any circumstances. And Americans have given Bush the most dismal approval ratings of any recently "elected," second term president in history--hovering around 50% since before the election, and falling to 48% ON HIS INAUGURATION DAY.

Yet we're having torture memo writer Alberto Gonzales shoved down our throats as Attorney General! And Rice shoved down our throats--the biggest liar ever to hold public office! And the lot of them now saber rattling at Iran, and planning to loot Social Security to prop up this failed economy on behalf of the rich--failed BECAUSE OF the Iraq war!

The majority of the people DID NOT VOTE FOR THESE THINGS. The evidence is overwhelming that Bush was NOT elected. And the Democratic leadership has been COMPLETELY SILENT ABOUT IT.

There is one more element: FEAR. Trying to protect little fiefdoms in the midst of a fascist coup. Trying not to get destroyed like Kevin Shelley in California. Being blackmailed. Being threatened in other ways (anthrax?). Fear of the Bush Cartel's mega-power and utter viciousness.

Put this all together and you have people at the bottom rung of the ladder who just can't seem to understand the difference between a paper trail and a paper ballot.

------

Calm down, flyarm, is my advice. We have a lot of work to do--and some of it has to do with the mental health of the American people, especially Democrats and progressives. One of the things we have to do is to get the poor brainwashed people on the bottom rung of the ladder feeling self-confidence again, trusting their own intellects and hearts, and re-empowered (or empowered for the first time). You can't do it by bludgeoning them with facts. Many were shattered by the Kerry "loss" and to this day don't know what happened--and none of their leaders are filling them in.

Stop beating your head against a brick wall. Sit back. Think. Feel. Take a break. What is the most effective way to deal with brainwashed people, with people who don't trust themselves?

I've given a lot of thought to the media question as well. I've been unplugged for some time (except for the Internet, where I get my news from a very broad range of sources). But most people are plugged into TV news--and the reason is that it gives them a sense of belonging to a national community--even if the news lies to them again and again. That's WHY they won't unplug from it. Community--and especially national community and identity. So they live most of their waking lives in the Matrix of delusion that corporate news has created. Even if they're Democrats, even if they're otherwise fairly smart people, and even if they don't trust "the news" --still, they absorb the delusion. And in that delusion, they are powerless, and they need to be TOLD by PEOPLE WHO KNOW what's important and what's not important.

Stolen election II is not important. Paper ballots that take precedence over electronic tallies in any recount are not important--because the Democratic leaders they see on TV, or ones they may be in contact with more locally, DON'T THINK SO.

-----

I have my ups and downs, flyarm. And I totally sympathize with where you're at right now. I just went through it in Calif. on the Sec of State disaster. And I'd been through it before on another issue entirely. You'd think I'd learn--that is, you'd think I'd learn to predict the level of corruption/collusion/fear to expect on any important issue, when it comes to our supposed Democratic representatives. And I AM learning--but I still get shocked sometimes.

I am still shockable. Maybe that's good.

Anyway, THIS TIME, on VOTING, I feel that, a) we MUST win--period, b) the only way we're going to win is by being absolutely clear as to what we're dealing with, and c) it has to be a collective realization and effort--no one person alone can re-establish democracy in this country. It's not up to you. You can only do so much. It's up to US, as a people.

What we are involved in is a democracy movement--the greatest one of all, restoring majority rule in the U.S. of A.--and that means that we have to be patient with, and never give up on, our fellow citizens.

[flyarm]

35. wow peace patriot..thank you!!! thank you very much!!

i have so hard tried to remain positive..and keep smiling and trying to keep educating..and say it in the simplest terms so people can understand it...i hve never lost it before..but i just kinda did last night...and everything you said is dead on!!

i also have watched the shelly thing as my husband was from sacramento..my son went to college there and i lived in l.a. for 13 yrs until loosing my home in the northridge earthquake..i was very involved in the dem party out there..so i keep track of calif issues..in fact as a delegate to the convention our fla group sat in front of calif..and i felt like i belonged in the calif delegation more than the fla one!! i got to sit for a bit with maxine who i know and love..on the floor the last night..and with boxer..it was like seeing my girlfriends again!!
so i know what you have gone through as my heart was broken as well!
now you have the arnuld factor..like we have the jeb factor..
i guess you can tell i am a fighter..and i dont give up easy..and i dont delcare a loss easily...so if i get frustrated i ususally hold it in and just fight harder...but last night i was just at wits end..
thank you for your fight and your supportive words...you just helped me recharge my batteries..i thank you!!

i thank you all here at du...
i just dont want to see anyone else go through another 9/11 ..and i know the fight is against our presidential administration..
i will never give up!! nope i will never give up!

fly

[Carolab]

21. YES YES YES!!

"In providing for voter-verified paper ballots that will be
counted at the precinct level, voters gain an auditing mechanism to
compare to the electronic tally."

COUNTED AT THE PRECINCT LEVEL!

[flyarm]

26. ohhh i forgot to say...i am so proud of all of you in georgia!! and

congradulations..i know you worked your asses off..and i respect and cheer you all!!

fly:bounce: :bounce: :toast: :party: :hi: :thumbsup: :loveya: :hug: :yourock:

[GOPBasher]

27. Awesome! I love to see the broad support from this, even

from conservative groups.

[DU GrovelBot]

32. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v3.0
==================



This week is our first quarter 2005 fund drive. Democratic
Underground is a completely independent website. We depend almost entirely
on donations from our members to cover our costs. Thank you so much for
your support.

[Peace Patriot]

34. This is a fabulous development in Georgia! Georgia is leading the way!

After getting the crap kicked out of us in California (i.e., Kevin Shelley), it is wonderful and heartening to see election activists making such progress! Maybe we can stop the Schwarz/BushCon coup here! You give me hope! I know you've taken a whole lot of crap in Georgia, way more than we have--being denied your rightful Senator, for one thing--but not any more! Wow! Congratulations!

[Trish1168]

36. Awesome......best news I've seen all day!!

If Georgia can do it...then it can be done in many more states.

I have hope that democracy can come back, and these right wing neonazi...oops, I mean neoconservatives, can get their collective asses kicked at the polls.