Question of GAY SEX surrounding White House reveal who we have become

[nashville_brook]

Who here has ever attended an elite prep school? Anyone been to jail? Well, I'm sure everyone has been to the zoo.

""

The kind of behavior associated with Gannon's flavor of "services," and Bush's affair with Vicktor Ashe, have nothing to do with what most people consider sex. I know this is difficult to understand because we *are* talking about the act of eventually bumping uglies. Make no mistake, that happens in the end (pun intended), but it's not "romantic." All the well-groomed bachelors of a certain age in surrounding the GOP and the While House, they aren't all looking for love. They are "establishing order."

Homo-erotic social ordering is at the center the Lord of the Flies world inhabited by the orphans of privilege who attend elite private schools. It's also common in public schools, and in neighborhoods. You most certainly see it in prison. Who is whose bitch. It's certainly not a behavior exclusive to the wealthy. I grew up in central Florida and the cracker kids in my neighborhood did it. I've witnessed it in the corporate world where you have the bullying in a hereto-erotic manner. Hell, my 14-pound female Italian Greyhound asserts her authority over her roomie, an 18-pound male Iggy. I love it when we have guests over in the summer for BBQ's and Astra is humping away at Trouble. "Well you see, they are establishing dominant order. It has nothing to do with sex-drive. If she were in heat, believe me, she would be acting much different."

Skull and Bones is supposed to be the final stopping place for the adolescent ready to leave that ordering process behind. Or is it? Does the behavior serve a purpose beyond the developmental ordering of youth? I would say it most certainly does. Who wouldn't want to be privy to your opponent's vulnerability? If you were the bully, I imagine you could use your reputation for mad ruthlessness against your peers forever -- given you maintain the rep through continued ruthlessness.

This is base nature, folks. It's what we form social institutions to guard against. The Enlightenment, humanity in general, the arts, music. Our entire culture until now has been centered on progress and The Social Contract. Now, it is Hobbe's State of Nature re-created by men in power in order to fill a need -- most likely a garden variety narcissist need with Daddy-issues thrown in. Always needing to show oneself to be "the boss," or "the big Man," is not normal behavior. It's aberrant. Transgressive.

Everyone who has an angle on the Gannon story wants to assert their reason "why the sex is relevant," or why it's not. I'm no exception. I believe the issue of sex is important because it tells us something about this administration's sense of social ordering. It's claw to jaw. It's pre-modern. It's Old Testament.

When Clinton was fooling around with his little muffin, it wasn't about him being a big man. He's not proving to the world and to his Father that he is better. Clinton had to become his own father. He had to grow up fast and nurture his mother. I have some experience with that. When you come from those roots, you don't have anything to prove, anymore. But you do get lonely. When you are everyone's parent, there is nothing left for you.

In the Clinton dalliance there was yearning for connection. In Bush's case the yearning is to stand over the vanquished -- this is called "annihilation."

We must get better at articulating what this is about because it seems to me that whether or not you believe any of the Left Behind crap, Bush The Annihilator, does. Those are the rules he is playing by. He is a sick man and he is going to take all of us with him on his Odyssey to prove to Poppy once and for all, who's The Man.

[papau]

1. excellent writing - I don't know about the analysis - but the writing kept

me reading!

:-)

[nashville_brook]

3. it's your basic deconstruction of power

[caledesi]

2. Excellent post! nt

[nashville_brook]

9. ah shucks

:)


nothing better to do while i stay out of my husband's way today. he's doing drywall and it's not very pretty.

[havocmom]

4. Very interesting AND rational

a rare combination on this subject. Many thanks for reminding us that human nature is animal in nature and at the core of much we do. Very thought provoking. Think some of what you say applies to some of the bruising going on in a few threads here on the subject of AKA Gannon and the White House Cowboys.

Think I will put on the Animal Planet and chew on this a bit.

[nashville_brook]

5. see if there's anything on monkeys -- there might be a reason why they

don't believe in evolution.

[havocmom]

6. LOL actually I WAS thinking about the Crocodile Diaries we watched

last night. It was about gorillas. They showed Steve-o giving beer to a big silver-back. Later he was going on about how the big ape bonded with him and what an honor it was. Havocdad and I both yelled at the TV "Your brought the beer, stupid, OF COURSE he 'liked' you!"

Also showed the main handler going into the enclosure with the big silver-back. As long as the human maintained submissive behavior and posture, it was OK. The big silver-back forced the man to give him tummy rubs and they were not over til the big ape said so! The human did what he had to to keep the powerful male contented and that was the only way he was allowed access.

Things that make me go 'hmmmm'.

And, yes, Havocdad & I did talk about how some people refuse to accept their kinship with the primates. We think those folks will hit an evolutionary dead end in a few more generations, judging from some of the behaviors we have observed in our own part of the jungle. ;)

[nashville_brook]

8. *allowed access" -- "contented"

yep, it fits. :)

[glitch]

36. That's what I think - those that don't believe in evolution don't evolve

sucks for them.

"We think those folks will hit an evolutionary dead end in a few more generations, judging from some of the behaviors we have observed in our own part of the jungle. ;)"

Although I think they've already hit the dead end, maybe even generations ago. Evolution doesn't happen overnight.
IMO their unconscious minds already know this and that's the source of their rage.

[Jamastiene]

50. Kind of hard to believe in something

they haven't done yet. They need to let the family tree fork a little before they can expect to evolve. And of course they won't do that because they are afraid of anyone outside their tiny little family structure...

[Old Mouse]

7. Bush's issues are personal

and separate from the Left Behind crowd. Your annihilation angle rings true, as it is the final act of ultimate narcissism.

But as much as we embrace our victory over the beast within, sex has never really been separated from dominance. The homo-erotic play of adolescence has no shield from being considered sexual activity due to exploration of the establishment of social order.

For me, the sexual angle has two important points:

First: It keeps the attention of the public, and the entire scandal enters the main stream press. This could also be a detriment, as many here point out the sex could be used to completely distract attention from the obvious conspiracies taking place.

Second: Seduction, straight and gay, to force a person into a compromised position is a standard method to create intelligence assets. Is it paranoid to contemplate this ex-Marine's possible sexual connection to so many members of the power elite may be calculated?

GREAT post, BTW

[Nothing Without Hope]

43. I agree - it's to get intelligence and to coerce support

You write:
Second: Seduction, straight and gay, to force a person into a compromised position is a standard method to create intelligence assets. Is it paranoid to contemplate this ex-Marine's possible sexual connection to so many members of the power elite may be calculated?
No, I don't think it's paranoid, but I also think he isn't the only one. In 1989 there was a huge gay prostitution ring scandal associated with the Reagan/Bush White House. Surprise, surprise, the investigation was derailed by that administration.

Pedophilia may be part of the mix as well. Great blackmail material.

I have a thread on the possible use of gay prostitution (and perhaps pedophilia) for intel gathering and blackmail by the administration here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1609452#

[HeeBGBz]

10. That's why I feel *'s rubbing of bald heads

Was not so much an amusement, as a sign of dominance over that person. Like either, "you're my bitch" or "you'll soon be my bitch"

It struck me as * exerting some pseudo-sexual power over the person he touches. A sign of ownership.

Does that make any sense?

[nashville_brook]

11. for sure! and don't forget the lieberman kiss.

[Us vs Them]

13. Lieberman got the bitch kiss.

It's true. Tony Soprano does it all the time, too.

[starroute]

21. And the nicknames

That's another mark of the assertion of dominance -- like calling adult black males "boy." It's all about the power.

[deacon]

12. great post! n/t

[KoKo]

14. Dominance and Perversion....your article is interesting.

It does seem to fit these people. And carrying it through to Rove's terrible family history, and looking at Perle, Wolfowitze and some of the others in action, one does see hints of this.

Even Condi has her own "dominance" issues. And, there's that organ playing for Shrub at Camp David.

These people are very different from other Administrations and their need to pull themselves into an ever tighter group is disturbing. In most second term administrations, new people are brought in because the others are tired, and it gives new "life" to the up and coming in the Party's Power Ranks. This administration seems to dwell on older men of Poppy's time, and the female dominatrix. I can see Condi with a whip and leather.

They are deviant in their politics and probably deviant from what most folks out there in the Red States think about who is running our country. Maybe many of us picked this up long ago because we are more sensitive and could feel the vibes from these people which didn't fit with their "straight laced persona." I hope America wakes up soon because these people are so dangerous to us and the world. :scared:

[nashville_brook]

26. when i was in college, taking poly sci theory courses, i had a prof

who always pitted my lone leftiness against another girl who was equally conservative in her persuasion. my school in east tennessee, even in the 80s, was mostly conservative, although we had a vibrant lefty community.

i became friends with this girl, amy and later served under her at the student newspaper where she was editor and i was news editor. the closer we became, the more she shared with me about her upbringing:

absent father
religious mother (southern baptist)
and community culture that only included church members.

now, she had a crush on the features editor who was totally not her type. pot-smoker, lefty. and i was fascinated. why him i asked. because he reminded her of her father she said. emotionally unavailable, quiet, submissive.

as i got to know her, everything about her politics seemed to point back to her father. i imagine her political ruthlessness was a way to out-conservative her conservative father. to be the ultimate daddy's little girl in order to just some little fleck of attention from him.

as time went on and she grew-up (and healed that emptiness she felt with her father), she shed a lot of that conservatism. she's still anti-choice as far as i know, but hey, what are gonna do?

now look at these overacheivers and think about the conservatives you know: do they fit this? are they appealing to authority as a means to "out-Father" their fathers?

[KayLaw]

28. KoKo01?

Or anyone? Where can I find info about Rove's family history? I'm very curious.

[Helga Scow Stern]

31. Here are a couple:

http://bnfp.org/neighborhood/Lemann_Rove_NYM.htm

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/120503_rove.html

Enjoy!

[KayLaw]

35. Thanks, Ojai Person

:hi:

[KoKo]

45. Kick....for an interesting read...n/t

[Helga Scow Stern]

15. You write a mean post, nashville_brook.

I like how you help us keep our sexes straight, or is it our sexing...

And you are right. That dominance thing is universal as a "sexual" act, whether it is leg humping or head rubbing. It seems so obvious now.

Asserting oneself sexually over or being sexually overpowered by other men fills a vacuous cavern in the narcissistically powerful. The more power a narcissist has, the greater the need to continue to prove it, because the greatest fear is that its false premise will be exposed.

I think this is a correlate of facism, which of course is the bootmate of sadism. So one may not be "gay" but enjoy dominance and being dominated by one's own kind.

And there is a big difference between having a muffin or a bulldog.

[nashville_brook]

25. you've got the narcissist thing down!

just recently started paying atttention to Narcissicism as an alternative to Alcoholism. i know that seems a stretch, but it goes like this -- we know adult children of alcoholics have a pretty discreet set of issues they deal with. There's plenty of folks in therapy who exhibit the same types of issues, but whose parents were not drinkers. BUT their parents were emotionally unavailable for other reasons: self-centeredness caused by any number of other roots. Could be mental illness, high profile careers, or just selfishness.

The Narcissicist metaphor FUNCTIONS the same way as alcoholism.

Going deeper, which is what you've grokked, is the underlying feeling of inferiority which drives the narcissist into sadism and dominance.

I'm intrigued at how this plays out politically -- fascism, being the political expression of the personal dis-ease.

[Helga Scow Stern]

29. Narcissism is a national, if not worldwide, epidemic....

and I started noticing it in the same way you did.....

I kept noticing people who had all the symptoms of being the child of an alcoholic, but no one drank or used any drugs.

But they were all extremely narcissistically wounded.

It is some scary shit, because narcissists don't go for help, while many alcoholics have to, someday. Many narcissists are highly functioning, have lots of others around them, etc., etc.

[Helga Scow Stern]

16. I nominated, and

I just remembered how * almost looked as if he was blushing when he called on Jeff in the Olbermann montage. He tried so hard to frown, to make it look like he was thinking about the question. His face said "guilty!"

I thought, that's a strong reaction for asking a plant a question. I didn't think * was that sensitive....

But given what we know now.....I see the source of that flush...

[nashville_brook]

27. he even took a drink -- i play poker -- that's called a give.

[Karenina]

17. The BIG picture.

As I read your writing I kept hearing "yup, there ya go and WHOOMP dey it is" coming out of my mouth. Odd, that! ;-) :toast:

[LinuxInsurgent]

18. your analysis makes sense...good stuff!

[BeFree]

19. Enlightening!!

In my career, I have worked for hundreds of bosses and bossed hundreds of people. Your missive boiled down the essence of that experience.

I have seen it happen a hundred times. The boss wants, desires, indeed needs, the employee to be his bitch. The boss simply has to be the top dog.

Hell, I've done it when I was the boss!

It had nothing to do with sex, at least on the concious level, it was purely power strokes!

Given the Clinton's personal reality you can see why he was so diplomatic, and given the reality of b***, you can see why he is such a blowhard.

It's all becoming quite clear! Thanks, it's like a drink of sweetwater from a pure stream!

[nashville_brook]

30. i started researching Narcissisist Personality Disorder b/c of my last

boss/business partner. i WAS in marketing communications and as such, i was a narcissist's wet dream -- a high-dollar creative able to polish a turd to numinous sheen. my last three employers were notorious narcissists. i made them look damn good which to a narcissist is even better than the money i was able to bring down for them.

i've been abused by these farkers for years, and this last boss offered me an executive position in a financial services marketing firm she was forming. we had been laid off in a merger, and i figured, why not, lets give this a shot.

she bascially used me as her personal best friend, dog, gopher, governess, slave -- you name it. because it was the first woman i had worked with i had the sudden flash of insight that she was treating me like all those girls in high school i so successfully avoided. they have you on their quick-dial and phone every 10 minutes ostensibly "to be you friend" and ask advice about everything from personal matters to hair color. it's control. they don't want you to have YOUR life. they will sabotage all your other relationships b/c they can't stand the fact that you don't BELONG to them completely.

one nite, after this business associate had been calling and freaking out at me all day, i woke up having a panic attack which turned into a migraine that lasted for 3 days. as soon as the headache lifted i wrote a letter of resignation and decided to work for myself and pursue my writing career (at least for a few months while i have severance and unemployment).

what caused most of my discomfort was i actually stepped into the slave role and became the task-master to those under me. she demanded it. i simply cannot work that way. i'm a facilitator. i have to work with WHOLE people. when i realized this, my decision was easy. but it's taken me a decade to get here.

There's a great book that came out in the 80s, The Chalice and the Blade by Riane Eisler. In it she outlines TWO possible alternatives for human social interaction -- Partnership and Dominance. really good stuff if anyone is interested in deeper reading into the dynamics.

51. child development stuff

In trying to understand my son and daughter a bit better (both not yet pre-teens), I've been doing a lot of reading. Your last sentence here -- Partnership and Dominance -- is identical to the descriptions I've been reading and have read previously about how girls/women *usually* relate (consensus/cooperation) and how boys/men *usually* relate (pecking order/hierarchy).

So... women should run the world!

[librechik]

20. thanks for the enlightening insights

wrestling power is at the root of everyhting in this administration--and no holds are barred. Including sexual intimidation and surrender, apparently.

[Tesla]

22. I voted for this

This is a great insight to it all.
I read Mrs. Clinton's bio years ago. She gave a great insight to Bill and his formative years.
I want Bill BACK!!!!!!!!

[nashville_brook]

i love you screen name!

i listened to Bill's, My Life on Audible and cried all the way through -- all 25 freaking hours of it -- jeez! it was long. but what a difficult childhood! and what an amazing rise out of the sticks, using only his BRAIN!

i want him back too. he was a philosopher-king. an Arthur. he only wanted to jump into history and steer in a better direction for humanity's sake. it was a beautiful thing.

Cliintonian Optimism; remember that?

[qanda]

23. excellent writing

[i miss america]

24. IMO this animal kingdom regime still needs to be chased out of the jungle

[nashville_brook]

33. and WHO in the animal kingdom better to fight evil monkeys, than

GIANT SQUIRRELS OF NATO!


i have to apologize for this bit of nonsense -- i grabbed this image from a fellow DU'er and i can't remember who it is to give them credit. but they need to know, they struck a major chord with me. there really isn't anything funnier than squirrel humor to me.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[barbaraann]

34. That's what I keep trying to say about prostitution.

It's not just consenting sex between adults. My thread about prostitution/necrophilia got deleted but annihilation is closer to what happens between a john and a hooker than sex is.

Bill Clinton doesn't kiss other men or rub bald heads, does he?

[nashville_brook]

39. not his MO -- i can understand the your thing about

prostitution/necrophilia -- these are categories we have heard of more often.

no one wants talks about the use of sex in social ordering because there's so much cognitive dissonance with the meaning of sex. to your basic american, your experience of this is either psychologically buried or so far inn your past you don't think about it anymore. but guys in prison are VERY aware of it! and oonce you know what it is, you start to see it more in the work-place.

Clinton's thing is no less interesting, but very much less disgusting and evil. Clinton just wants a courtesan -- a thing that has a long, lyrical history. there's something very Renaissance about it -- powerful man seeks busom of less powerful muffin. she represents the body politic he wants to nurture and develop.

[barbaraann]

40. Social ordering sex or narcissistic sex? Or something else?

What is the best name for it?

Bully sex?

[nashville_brook]

46. damn good question. the Velvet Texas Mafia thread goes a long way

to unpack the nature of the activity. to all my closeted gay friends, i wouldn't want to put them in the category of playing the dominance game i've outlined -- but even so -- there is a huge amount of sugar-daddying.

maybe objectivication is the key? commodity-ism? maybe another cup of coffee will spark insight.

[barbaraann]

47. You know, I think it's the kind of sex Alexander the Greek had.

There was a big uproar about his "bisexuality" in the recent film but I don't think it was really bisexuality.

Maybe it's closer to rape than to sex.

Alpha Male Sex?

[nashville_brook]

48. oh yes, the greek-roman man-boy relationship thing

relations between man and women were considered base in plato's-socrates' time. it was seen as weak to keep company with women. all the alpha males had boy-toys.

alpha-sex, very good.

[barbaraann]

49. Consensual rape?

n/t

[bvar22]

37. Nominated.

Well written.

Popular imagry like this supports your thesis.

[nashville_brook]

41. saw this on salon -- i love it. could be toby keith's next CD art

:)

[BigBearJohn]

38. Well you gave me a personal insight. Thanks for the post!!!

[Nothing Without Hope]

42. I think the gay prostitution and probably pedophilia are for BLACKMAIL

Gay sex is normal, of course.

The sordid atmosphere around this administration and the prostitution angle are not. I believe this relates to holding power over people by knowing the secrets they regard as dirty or dangerous. There was a huge gay prostitution ring associated with the 1989 Reagon/White House too, and I'm betting the same thing was going on there. That administration derailed the investigation -- protecting their buddies or their investment in building the blackmail net?

Pedophilia is likely here because it is universally reviled. Great blackmail material.

I have a whole thread on this subject of using gay prostitution (and, as suggested in one of the replies, pedophilia) as blackmail to ensure support of administration policies, to consolidate its power. I think this is real, and I also think that "Gannon" is an undercover (ok, so it's a pun) agent. Here's the thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1609452#

[Pooka Fey]

44. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for your insights.