how to "rove" Karl Rove

[garybeck]

I think we've figured out the pattern by now.

He starts with a negative attribute about his candidate that is true.

He creates a news story about this that is based on fact but includes some key evidence which is fabricated.

The story is leaked to the media, preferably to one of the media organizations that needs to be discredited in his mind. People are amazed by the revelations.

then they find out the document, or audio tape, or whatever it was, is fake.

they figure all the information on the document or tape is therefore not true, even though it is.

His candidate scores points for being wrongly attacked, and people end up not believing the truth about the person. and the media organization that reported the story gets trashed. heads roll.

have to admit it's kind of clever.

but we've seen it enough times, personally I'm getting sick of it. of course there are variations. the new audio tapes of Bush talking to his friend before he became president STINK of this. in that case the whole premise of the tapes being secretly made is probably a lie and they were just put together to portray Bush in a certain way, like a free advertisement.

question, how could one turn this tactic against Rove?

If you reverse the pattern, it would go like this.

Pick a prominent democrat. Let's just say Howard Dean for example.

Pick a potentially negative trait - say his opposition to the war.

make a fake document about it. type out a memo that says the military should be cut by 90% and forge Dean's signature.

Leak it to Fox News

Watch as the public at first is amazed how radical howard dean is and they attack him with negativity.

then it is discovered that the document is fake. you can help with that if it doesn't happen by itself. Hopefully you put something in the document that was hard to find but made it clearly fake.

Fox News gets discredited.

Howard Dean gets a clean ticket and sympathy for a false attack.


there are many other ways to play around with this concept. I just wonder when it's time to start fighting fire with fire, to let them know we see what they're up to.

[RC]

1. Discredit Fox News?

Surly you jest.
I do think you are on to something here though.

[Alizaryn]

2. garybeck , I am so glad that I was not the only one who

doubts the actual story around the Bush tape. My first thought was how convenient....nice script. I know some have looked into the tape to authenticate it being Bush's voice, is there any method available to date it?

[rumpel]

5. I think the only way to date the tapes is to subpeona phone reocrds

on edit

I believe the tapes were made, or at least edited, last week.

[garybeck]

13. DOUBT EVERYTHING

we must realize our situation.

we can't trust ANYTHING from the MSM. Even if they think they're doing something straight up, they could be being manipulated by Rove.

to me, the key is, watch how much airplay something gets. if a story gets baried (like the gannon thing) it's probably real and it's probably hot. If a story is being talked about on all the talk and news shows, chances are it's a bunch of BS.

[demo dutch]

34. Could be a ploy to take focus off the "Gannon" story

[msongs]

3. dems would rather lose on behalf of 60 million americans........than

win. And I do not mean by employing really dishonest things, just by not standing up and being the OPPOSITION party who actually OPPOSES.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[RevCheesehead]

4. And, of course, timing is everything.

Note how this tape arrives shortly after the Jimmy-Jeff story begins to get more "exposure" (pun intended - sorry!). You don't just do this stuff at anytime - it is well-timed.

[Griffy]

6. dont play their games! all we need is truth and we win! PROPAGANDA..

THATS how you stop rove... take down his PROPAGANDA machine and the rest will fall. They need the public to be ignorant... this is why the gannon story must be told.. I tell everyone.. I type in chat rooms.. "anyone heard of Jeff Gannon?" its good to inform.. 1 person at a time! just say PROPAGANDA to everyone, and explain!

[zann725]

7. That's right! The Gannongate story is far more important to Democracy

and more interesting (sex always is) to Middle America. It's up to us to keep the focus on that, and NOT to waste time bemoaning what Rove is doing...or NOT doing...or what we imagine him doing. Instead it is up to us to do what we do best...stay on a TRUE story, and see it's brought to light.

[kster]

8. Thats right

stay on the stories ,there is a prostitute in the White House but most important they stole the presidency and our democracy.

[ChrisPhx]

10. Of course broadcasting the scheme

here is probably not a good idea.

Although if they think something is going to happen, but don't know what or when, maybe it will keep them on their toes or at a high adrenalin (stress) level.

For all they know or I know or we know there may be someone actually making such plans and carrying them out.

Sundance had Bush's Brain on again.

There have to be a lot of people who would like to rove roverer.

[garybeck]

11. the post was just a silly idea to make a point

not a real plan of action :silly:

but hey, maybe someone "out there" will someday decide to play rove's game with him and we'd all get to sit back and be spectators. :)

personally I would not actually do anything like that myself. not worth the risk. other methods aimed at revealing the lying killers for who they really are will hopefully someday bare fruit.

[ChrisPhx]

17. My response was in the same spirit

I realized you were kidding, but it is kinda fun to play around with the idea.

And like you say, maybe someday, someone when they least expect it may just have had enough.

:crazy:

[garybeck]

18. I know there are some folks in the CIA that are pretty pissed

my guess is the CIA will be the undoing of Rove/Bush

[electropop]

22. I think the CIA is the key.

They play hardball, and they play for keeps. Endanger one of the CIA family, and you are in deep doo doo. Rove and Bush had better watch their backs.

[lthuedk]

23. We should also revisit old, Rove'd stories,

like Bush's service record, how Daddy fixed everything. Shove it all back in Rove's face.

[ClassWarrior]

36. Wrong. Read "Don't Think of an Elephant." The truth will NOT set us free.

The author, George Lakoff, explains it better than I can here - the book's an easy read and under $10. Get it. You'll be amazed.

NGU.

[Helga Scow Stern]

9. The trouble is,

we can't outrove Rove in the same way unless we have someone to publish our propaganda like it is news. Like those phony tapes.....


All the major newspapers have a way in from Rove--like the two in California who threw all the mud at Shelley. Those often unsigned "editorials" are quoted as evidence in the House and Senate, or as the reason to start an "investigation".

There has to be someone in the MSM to lead the feeding frenzy.

That's why our strategy would have to be different.

[garybeck]

12. yeah, I wasn't really serious

other methods at fighting back will hopefully be more effective. i'm very excited for the divestiture campaign.

[Helga Scow Stern]

29. Damn. I had hoped you were serious.

I can see that all this strategery has gone to my head!

[seaclyr]

14. Gary, I know you weren't really being serious, but........

you also have a real point. I'm not sure that it's always possible to fight lies directly with the truth, especially in situations where the media essentially controls what is talked about, because then truth is at a real disadvantage. There's a phrase from some tradition (I forget which) which says: "It's okay to lie to a liar." And we all know that we would lie to a person who wants to do us harm, right? Is this situation any different? Perhaps we're being a bit naive?

[garybeck]

16. no doubt

there was some point in my posting this. i guess now I'm not sure exactly what the point is, BUT... it appears that the only way to beat rove is to outsmart him. It can be done with lies, truth, a combination. Whatever it takes. Ultimately I believe the truth will prevail, but it may take a little "game playing" to get to that point

[NationalEnquirer]

15. I have noticed the pattern.

I just thought it was our bad luck.
On the other hand, during Clinton, the Repunks thought many, many times that they "had" him, only to see their hopes dashed (anybody remember the crack-whores kid?)

I think we have that kind of thing in the Democratic party, as evidenced by the Clintons. Now while I am not a big Clinton fan, as far as being a progressive, I think we could use their "services"...

[OKJackson]

19. This won't work... let me show you why...

...it's as simple as looking at the first part of your premise.

How many times have they lied and those lies have been exposed without harm to their party and the damage being done to the Democrats? Look at the Swift Boat Vets and what they did to John Kerry... enough said.

If you want to play this game, and I do not recommend that you do, let's become more honest people not the opposite... try it like this.

Find someone who is NOT registered Democrat. Someone who hasn't worked for Democrats. Never donated, isn't a badge wearing progressive. In other words, NO TIES. Have that person start doing the same thing to the Rovies (best do it with full honesty, but if you want to lie, that's your choice, remember that each lie that gets exposed the less people are willing to listen to the truth, look at Rathergate.)

That's how you do it.

Again, play it like a court room testimony, the truth and nothing but the truth unless you want trouble.

[garybeck]

20. yes, this is why I posted this thread

I didn't necessarily want people to follow my idea, but come up with other creative ways to fight the power.

My qustion is, what is the person to do? How does he/she "do the same thing the Rovies do"?

Any creative suggestions?

[OKJackson]

21. Follow the fact paved road

Read as much as you can about the real material, like Gannon or Blackwell's funny games. Write the newspaper. Write the media. Write your representatives. Keep saying "this is what I want to see and see handled." Multiply yourself by the thousands upon thousands of other progressives. This will let your reps and the media know that in no certain terms that you want to see something. Make no mention of the things they go "off on a tangent" about, unless you want to say something to the effect of (to the media) "I'm tired of , I want real news like Gannon / Blackwell." What are they going to think when they don't provide that and see falling ratings? They will know to get in line.

That's what the grass roots is all about, taking thousands of people and without a leader, focusing them on a point like a cattle stampete through a pinhole, focus + tremendous force and numbers = success.

If we keep this up they will break, CBS has shown us that they will step in line because their bottom line ($$$) demands it.

That's how we do what the Rovies do. The Rovies focus on noise but lose steam once the truth is revealed. If we stick to the ABSOLUTE TRUTH, we will not lose steam, we will trump Rove and defeat him.

I hope this helps :evilgrin:

[darkworkz]

25. This makes sense!

This is also the formula that Peace Patriot, myself and others are following. But as OK Jackson has succinctly pointed out, we need NUMBERS!

The louder the volume, through numbers, the quicker you will start seeing tangible change.

Centralized groups like V.O.T.E., started here on DU, are an excellent place to start with getting the numerous grassroots organizations on page with this type of campaign. Then pointing everyone is a series of targeted directions and then we all run toward the goal.

There is still time. And this process is something EVERYONE can do that's simple and takes very little time out of a busy day to perform.

Once again, some are already doing it, we just need more people involved!

[bunny planet]

24. Yup. This is what I suspect is happening in this case. No way Pillsbury

Roveboy didn't plan on having a 'gay' prostitute outed within the WH press corps. It reaks of Rove.

[garybeck]

26. huh? how could the Gannon story help Rove?

I'm trying to figure out how this could have been done on purpose but I can't see any benefit, other than to test the media to see if they drop the story.

[bunny planet]

32. maybe there's another shoe to drop, right on a Democrat's head.

I could be wrong, but it just seems too obvious a mistake for Rover. At the very least, perhaps it's a red herring to keep us from noticing other bigger stories and staying on them, like the 52 warnings to the FAA about 9/11, at the most it's a set-up of some kind, for us.

I don't know, color me paranoid.

[kster]

27. Yes a

rove tactic to slow down the vote fraud people,but I think his plan got way to out of hand, even for him ,enter the tapes. It sounds crazy but it sure fits his MO.

[garybeck]

28. wait, maybe this is it

this episode shows:

there are gays who support the republican party

if democrats attack Guckert they can be criticized for homophobia

now it is starting to sound more like rove.


however, if that was the motive, they would have had a nice mild mannered gay guy in there, not a naughty prostitute who sells himself on the internet.

could they possibly not have known his history when they decided to plant him there?

[Helga Scow Stern]

30. I think more than Rove strategy, Gannongate may be just

typical cult stuff.

They are a CULT, after all. This kind of thing is typical of what happens in closely controlled, power-hungry cults. Sex scandals get them every time.

A certain arrogance sets in, and there is something so intoxicating at the higher levels of a cult about being able to "have it all"...also it is an acting out of what is most repressed by the cult. It happens every time. If the cult eschews money, the leader gets caught stealing millions. If it's anti-sex, the leader is caught being a huge perv, and so on. Power corrupts, especially when mixed with weird cult ideology and the twisted closed mindedness necessary for a cult to function.

[OKJackson]

31. No, Gannon isn't a Rove job

If they were going to do this, they would do it with someone whose payout was questionable, not blatant. Someone who otherwise played a (no pun intended) straight role, clean shaven, very moral.

They didn't intend this, it cuts straight to the Potemkin village act they do at every twist and turn including that canceled press conference in Germany, and how the lies of the Iraqi war were shilled to their public. If Gannon gets any further out of hand we're going to be looking at many of the Rovies doing the perp walk, that's an awfully big risk to take for a small distraction.

[demo dutch]

35. Gannon was cleared by someone in WH nothing to do with

Rove, remember how they goofed on Kerik's nomination! In my view, this tape story is meant to take focus off the Gannon story before it gets out of hand!

[bunny planet]

33. It is possible that it is originally a Rove plan gone horribly awry,

sort of the monster attacking it's creator. Let's hope so. Nothing wrong with staying on the story, just proceed with caution, and steer clear of the gay angle entirely, I think that's a big trap for us, and ethically repugnant to go there anyway. Let's not be like them. The point is that G/G breached security, had access to information he had no business having, and was involved in illegal activities, possibly with ties to higher ups in the WH. Let's not play the sexual identity card, leave that kind of hypocritical smearing to the fundaholics. That's what they do best.