Email your Congressperson to cosponsor 2 bills for paper ballots.

[Eric J in MN]

When we vote, the process should produce a paper ballot we can check.

We shouldn't vote on electronic machines which don't print paper ballots. That lets the company which writes the software for the voting machines decide the election.

There are two bills in the House of Representatives to address this issue of making elections accurate, one introduced by a Democrat, and one by a Republican.

Please email your Congressperson to cosponsor both bills. You can use the form at:
verifiedvoting.org.

The form requires your 9 digit zipcode. You can look up your 9 digit zipcode at the United States Post Office website.

The bills are Rep. Rush Holt's (D-New Jersey) "Voter Confidence and Increased Accessibility Act" (H.R. 550) and Rep. Jim Gibbons' (R-Nevada) "Voting Integrity and Verification Act" (VIVA, H.R. 704).

For more information, visit verifiedvoting.org.

[applegrove]

1. We have paper ballots in Canada. For the main Prime Minister Vote -

it takes roughtly 1/2 hour to count each box and then count each box again. That is if you are organized and have about 300 people on each pole list (and several poles in each local school). Then it gets called in. And recounts are easy!!

Why don't you save the computer voting and email voting for all the other elections.

[Eric J in MN]

2. I agree, but it's not up to me.

This bill is the best we can hope for at this time.

Americans, please email your Congressperson using the link to the form in the orginal post.

[Cookie wookie]

7. Can you clarify:

If I'm understanding you correctly, what you call a "poll" is what we call a precinct? The count for Prime Minister that you cited as taking 1/2 hour is of 300 ballots? Do you have an estimate of how many poll workers on average it takes to count that race in that amount of time? Do you have any citation I could use on this subject that I could refer to when we talk to our legislators?

[Carolab]

10. I agree 100%. n/t

[dandrhesse]

14. why don't we get rid of them all together. What you said makes good

sense. If there is a dispute then a hand recount is the best solution so why not save the middle man and hand count to begin with. The reason they haven't done it that way is because the Republican Party wants the machines, especially those without paper verification, now why would they want those I wonder...

[Eric J in MN]

3. kick

kick

[tommcintyre]

4. Eric, do you know if the Clinton Bill also proposes a paper ballot?

I haven't had time to read it yet, but from what I've seen it looks like it does.

More info here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=329523&mesg_id=331877&page=

[Eric J in MN]

5. The text of the Hillary Clinton bill isn't available yet.

We can't judge it yet.

[Amaryllis]

9. It does. She talked about it in the press conference. You can watch here:

http://election.solarbus.org/
It's the top item on the page.

[tommcintyre]

11. Thanks n/t

[garybeck]

13. NO, we must define the word BALLOT

a BALLOT is not a record of the vote. It is the actual vote that was cast in the election.

NONE of the bills (I haven't seen Clinton's yet) calls for a paper ballot including the "gold standard" Holt bill.

They only call for a printout that matches the voter's intent. There is no safeguard to ensure that the paper matches what the machine sent to the system.

I think we are all losing our focus.

A DRE with a paper printout that only is used in a recount, or for small spot checks, is barely an improvement over what we have now.

We should not use the word ballot for these "receipts". They are not ballots. They are backups. They are receipts. They are not ballots. How we can call it a VVPB is beyond me.

[Amaryllis]

17. Gary, here is the language in the bill. I think you are right.

In the event of any inconsistencies or irregularities between any electronic records and the individual permanent paper records, the individual permanent paper records shall be the true and correct record of the votes cast.

`(iv) The individual permanent paper records produced pursuant to subparagraph (A) shall be the true and correct record of the votes cast and shall be used as the official records for purposes of any recount or audit conducted with respect to any election for Federal office in which the voting system is used.

[garybeck]

18. yes, we must emphasize, the paper is only for backup

it is not the original ballot. these bills do not stop DREs. Speaking of which, whatever happened to ensign? a couple weeks ago it was the bee's knees, and people were saying it would prevent the sale of thousands of DREs. i'm not sure but isn't it just about the same - the paper is just a backup?

this is not a solution, folks. if we only get paper backup, and not a paper ballot, you can forget about 08.

[tommcintyre]

19. I would like to get some expert input input on this Gary

I understand your concern. I think there is confusion on this issue. If you can pose your concern as a question, I will most likely have an opportunity to pose it to our top expert here in Hawaii today (Thursday) at 4:30pm (at the House judiciary hearing). If the answer is not satisfactory, we can try posing it to the expert that defined the whole "ballot thing" in the first place. (Read the post below for more info. Also, I recommend to keep reading down this thread for some real eyeopeners on the realities of election reform.)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=283301#283592

"I went to law school for the sole reason of honing my legal skills to match my election administration skills. One of my first public legal contributions to the debate was the notation that has become Andy's signature line - the legal analysis of what meets the test of being a "ballot", and why only paper meets that definition. I wrote that."

From "the horse's mouth", eh? ;)

[Al-CIAda]

6. Done & kick

[Eric J in MN]

8. Thank you (nt)

nt

[sacxtra]

12. Print your Ballot, then send your vote electronically to be hacked

Let me get this straight.

First you want to buy expensive equipment to print paper ballots.

Then you want to convert that ballot to an electronic digitized data format that disappears on an insecure network.

Great thinking.

The right to have our vote not count.
No right to vote.








Count the paper votes manually. It avoids all this.
Electronics, Digitized Data and Insecure networks have NO PLACE
in elections in the United States Of America.

I am just a grain of sand.
Nobody listens.
When you get what you ASKED for.
I'll still try to help you, even though you ignored me.

[kster]

15. This time we

fight for paper ballots,and they still get to count e'm.Then in 2008 when they steal the next election we can fight for how we count the ballots,but after we lose 2008, they will have enough power to tell us to f* ourselves, then we won't be able to fight for hand counting, and they will have enough power to do away with the paper ballots for 2012.Then its back to the drawing board.

[FogerRox]

16. Let me add that These DRe's have no digital representation

of individual vote--they only keep a running tally. And thats illegal? Right ?

[Wow]

20. Other reform possibilities?

Definately email you congressperson, but should we be taking other actions also? I keep wondering if we have more power than we know. In those states that have the initiative process, it should be possible to design some strong laws on paper backups, verification of voting totals, mandatory recounts, and inspection of voting machines. Up until now, this has always been left to our representatives, and they may have different motives from those of us whose strongest voice in government is our individual vote.