GEORGIA making history tonite, Sec. of State Cathy Cox Speaking to Citizen

[rigel99]

Guess what!? our version of Ken Blackwell only darker (Cathy "Diebold" Cox) will be speaking at a citizen forum tonite.

I plan to ask her some well worded, pointed questions.

We have a planned action as well, and have told tons of people to attend.

I will try to put a videotape of the event online on my website www.countpaperballots.com

HISTORY IN THE MAKING folks. Holding an SOS that has singlehandedely brought in Diebold and made GA 100% DRE Voting (Electronic Voting). Her office can also claim the following NOT SO PRETTY Responses to letters I've written:

1. Open Records request for CD dump of all the electronic data from the Diebold machines. RESPONSE: we cannot release the CD because it might compromise terrorist acts!!!
http://www.countpaperballots.com/cox-terrorist-response.htm

2. Requesting from her office information about stolen equipment and their office's investigation attempts. RESPONSE: Public records matching your response DO NOT EXIST in this office and are therefore unvailable for disclosure
http://www.countpaperballots.com/whatstolenequipment.htm

3. KSU's Britt Williams who supposedly received large sums of contractor fees from SOS office, claims ignorance on the issue of stolen equipment as well. see this response.... http://www.countpaperballots.com/williams-response.htm

4. DIEBOLD when asked about stolen equipment, called left messages, etc. NO RESPONSE at all.....

Guys, tonite will be huge, cause I'll publicly hand her the police report and then say "WHY ARE YOU WITHOLDING THE CD TO CITIZENS WHEN EFFECTIVELY AN ENTIRE COUNTY ELECTION SYSTEM IS MISSING AND YOUR OFFICE DID NOT EVEN INVESTIGATE IT?" You must not be too worried about terrorist acts except when it's a citizen of GA asking for the data they are rightfully guaranteed to have under the Open Records act....

Would love to hear your suggestions on other things to do at this meeting?

[TheModernTerrorist]

1. excellent

I don't have any suggestions at this point, but I must say this is impressive, and I look forward to seeing video if that is a possibility. Good luck and godspeed.
:-)

[RubyDuby in GA]

2. Well, for one thing

I'd try to be a little diplomatic in your line of questioning. Catch more flies with honey and all that.

Say what you will about her, she's still a thousand times better than Mark Taylor. Don't trust him as far as I can throw him and he's a big man and I don't work out.

[rigel99]

4. agreed...

question will be coated with extra honey.... will be very 'humble' and start off with

Madame Secretary, you have done many good things for GA and we are confident you will continue to do the right thing for GA elections going forward.....

how's that sound?

[rigel99]

5. Why don't we field our own GOV candidate

why not Nan Orrock or Cathy Woolard? both excellent Democratic choices we can trust to do good by GA???

[RubyDuby in GA]

7. Both fine women, but I want to win

and there are too many in the party that will not support either of them, especially in Cathy Woolard's case.

Like it or not, Cathy Cox is one that out performs the Republicans in every race she's ever run. She has huge name recognition and she could probably do very well in South Georgia and if this party is ever going to gain the seats of control back, it's got to get out of it's ITP mentality.

Of the two for governor, she's the better of the two. :cry:

[rigel99]

9. THIS MAY BE HARD TO SWALLOW

we have a history of Zell Miller Democrats, Bill Stevens and others come to mind who the day after getting elected did a deal with Sonny Purdue and switched from Democrat to Republican. Bill Stevens has asked our grassroots folks NOT to harm Cathy Cox in our activism... hmm this sounded very fishy to me a republican defending a democrat... tells me there is a power structure bigger than dem. or repub. in this state and always has been (concept of dixiecrats come to mind).

How do we know Cathy Cox is not this kind of 'zeallot' Zell miller democrat? How do we know she has not secretly wanted to shift to the Republican party, but is collaborating with the GOP because she can do much more damage as a democrat with republican values than as a republican in what has been a STRONGLY democratic state.

That she is running for governor against a republican is all the more interesting. Perhaps she is a pawn in the Diebold game, perhaps she has been manipulated just enough to not know that the Diebold systems have been rigging our elections since 2002. Perhaps she does not realize that they have fixed our 2006 election and any need of campaigning is really futile, as the fix is in and it's either Cox because of the power she wields as a democrat to keep us activist types mentally satiated from rising up, or Sonny will win again, oaf that he is, and Cathy will feel very betrayed by the very group she empowered to steal our elections from us...

I don't know where I stand, except that Cathy defends Diebold more passionately than the citizens of Georgia.. after tonite, you will see with your own eyes how slippery she is with rhetoric and how lacking she is with results to citizen concerns....

WE KEEP EXPECTING That a democrat in office can help us get more candidates that are democratic in office... this whole IDEA IS WRONG when you have rigged voting machines... nothing matters after that. no single chosen candidate by the Georgia citizen population will ever get elected, ever again.. it's over ... game over... this is the part I don't understand others do not grasp.. everybody wants evidence.. I'm swimming in evidence of Election fraud in GA and cannot share till I get before a judge.....

[RubyDuby in GA]

10. How do you know that she didn't make a deal

with Diebold to deliver the 2006 election to her? :shrug:

I'm just askin'....

[keepthemhonest]

16. that is my theory as well

why is it that these SOS's after helping the Repubs get into office get moved up in the world? Remember Harris moved up quickly after the 200 election.

Anyone know if it is routine for an SOS to run for Governor?

[Eloriel]

21. There's a deal in there somewhere, I can tell you that

I don't know if she was bought off or promised something (like the governorship), but she has been far too steadfastly, stupidly, stubbornly, irrationally adamantly PRO-Diebold for anything else to make sense.

Then there was that little episode Roxanne had during a brief conversation with the former Governor Roy Barnes when we tried early on to get some legal assistance for this issue. I think a LOT of them were bought off and then when a couple of them were turned out of office (surprise, surprise, suckahs!!), they had NO WHERE to go with their little complaints about election fraud. Just a hunch -- I have absolutely no proof whatsoever.

My fondest desire, though -- beyond seeing voter verified paper ballots for Georgia and every other state in the union -- is seeing Cathy Cox in prison orange. I know in my heart that's the LEAST she deserves.

[rigel99]

23. wow... you are bold

eloriel, I always knew I liked you but this...

wow, you are a true patriot to the cause...

There will be what I call the BUSH FAN day of reckoning, sort of a reverse 'rapture' where Bush loses office (either by impeachment or just plain screwing up) and all the folks who supported him will go down overnight.

We'll investigate and litigate the ChoicePoint execs
We'll put enron/Ebbers of Worldcom and all the other execs in jail
We'll let Martha out of Jail
We'll weed out the corporate interests in politics through tough ethics laws, accurate voting technology and a free press...

that's my vision and you are strong to say, it's accountability time for those who sold our democracy for a dime and bottle of beer.....

[Eloriel]

24. Fortunately

Martha gets out on Sunday and doesn't have to rely on the efficacy of the voter-verified movement.

[Amaryllis]

108. have you read Votescam yet? Lots of Dems are complicit.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss//duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=326096

[rigel99]

25. DEALS DO GET MADE WITH DIEBOLD

which is why I have no time / money or effort spent on anything less than 'invalidating Diebold' as a vendor (and all DRE vendors) for the sham that they are.....

that's the point.... there is no longer candidate races.. only fixes... from now on.... and Cathy Cox whether knowingly or as a pawn of the GOP participated in bringing this sham to Georgia...

watch the video, and you'll see her sparring with Richard Searcy (McKinney's aid), this is classic Cathy Rhetoric, protecting Diebold and denying citizens data.....

[Wabbajack]

94. ITP?

[RubyDuby in GA]

102. Inside The Perimeter

or it's metro Atlanta mentality. Metro Atlanta is very blue.

[Eloriel]

20. It sounds TERRIBLE, that's how it sounds

You DON'T go in praising someone who's been as AWFUL, derelict in their duties, incompetent and DISHONEST (lying) as Cathy Cox has been.

You can be plenty civil without giving away the damned store, and conceding important points going in like whether Cathy Cox is "good for Georgia" (SHE'S NOT) or has "done the right thing" for Georgia (SHE HASN'T). That's a horrible, horrible strategy, unworthy of anyone who calls herself an activist.

Be civil, but for God's sake don't be a wimp. She and her hacks have gotten by a whole lot of us who have come before you in this fight, and they're an arrogant bunch totally undeserving of anything but the barest minimum level of basic respect. Think Sam Donaldson or Dan Rather in their BEST days (decades ago, by this time).

[punpirate]

3. Keep hammering...

... on the confidential contract with Diebold. That seemed to upset her most in the past, from all accounts. Ask her did she buy the machines with her own money, or did the money come from the citizens of Georgia. Would she put her own money into a deal in which the contract was hidden from her?

[rigel99]

6. Good angle...

it was citizen of GA money indirectly from HAVA (federal money).
But good to know this is hot button...

GUESS What I found out... GA will have to come up with 2.45M in Maintenance fees for the Diebold machines paid for by the counties and there is no real budget for it.... hee hee hee... $93/per diebold machine to be exact...26,400 machines in GA...

hee hee... good angle... big smiles.. thanks for your post...

[keepthemhonest]

8. definately a good point

i am going to go tonight but will probably sit and observe Cathy cox, because I have not seen her in action. people who put spins on answers to questions instead of answering it are attempting to deceive and cannot be trusted.i really just want to hear it from the horses mouth.

[GuvWurld]

11. Kick - eager to know what happened!

[keepthemhonest]

13. Well I will tell you

what I can recall but I am sure Rigell will be better at explaining the details.

She was saying that she would like to get a paper receipt for the machines but what she has seen out in Neveda was a giant wheel of tape that moved so slow that it would take too long not practical. Then people in the crowd pointed out that there are better technologies to use than that.She said they need to be approved by HAVA first and also she said since they are going to be changing the laws she wishes to wait instead of buying something that would against the new law. She said she was looking into high-tech options.

One person said they have a right to a paper ballot and they want to go back too the old fashioned way of doing things. SOS proceeded to go off on a tangent several times about how optical scans machines disenfranchised many voters. A person in the crowd redirected her though ,when he yelled out "IS ANYONE HERE ASKING TO GO BACK TO OPTICAL SCAN MACHINES?" and the the crowd yelled "NO" Needless to say she did not hang around much longer after that, because she knew where she stood with the audience.

Several good questions and one guy who had had meetings with her in person before told her that she is breaking the law doind things the way she is doing them now, wish I could remember all the details for you. I am senile at age 36. i am sure Rigel's will be around soon to fill people in.

[Cookie wookie]

45. What Cox said:

Comment on quote above: "She said they need to be approved by HAVA first and also she said since they are going to be changing the laws she wishes to wait instead of buying something that would against the new law. She said she was looking into high-tech options."

What Cox said was that Georgia should wait before implementing vvpb for EAC's standards to be written. However, even when the EAC has written standards, these are not laws that Georgia has to follow, but are recommendations only.

This has been posted before:

To quote Brit Williams from a post he made on September 7, 2004 to the IEEE.org bulletin board: "It may be worth pointing out occasionally that the entire Standards program is voluntary and nothing binds the Secretaries of State." http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/scc38/1583/email/msg00263.html

[garybeck]

12. rigel, are you working with these folks?

Open Voting Consortium of Georgia

http://www.openvotingconsortium.org/web/portal/73/index.php

[rigel99]

14. not yet...

thanks for link, they are my phonecall (email) after I post
the WONDERFUL Cathy Cox video that you all just have to see!!! SMILES>... a very HISTORIC DAY IN Georgia.

Cox staff workers were overheard saying as they left the room, "THAT'S IT, CATHY JUST LOST THE ELECTION" more in a later thread.....

[keepthemhonest]

15. That is fantastic

Yeah that is how they introduced her last night as Governor Cox. Let's hope they are right about she just lost the election. Let's see if we can make that came true.

[garybeck]

32. that was the wrong link i gave you

that was the home page for OVC.

this should be the link to the Georgia group.

http://www.openvotingconsortium.org/web/portal/73/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=10

[rigel99]

49. YES, they handle legislative

I handle legal... I"m in touch with them....

I am focused 100% on legal and let those guys handle legislative. I support fully whatever they are doing, and hope either strategy results in success!

I'm rooting big time for these folks and their coalition is very impressive.....

[rigel99]

17. GOT CATHY COX LABELED A ZEALOT ON AIR AMERICA RADIO

Guys..
if you only could know how my last 24 hours went.

let's see where to begin. Here's my Diary:

4:10 Go out to eat dinner at Roaster's (Their turkey plate is the best)
4:52 Buy BRIGHT ORANGE POSTER boards
5:15 Get phonecall from Bev Harris' cameraman about his movie www.votergate.tv (awesome stuff) and talk about what us GA activists are up to and how he can help
5:30 make Posters that say "LIVE FREE OR DIE BOLD", and "WWW.Countpaperballots.com, No More Privatized Elections" and the "132 Years of Democratic Leadership Evaporates After Diebold"
5:45 Feed kitties as they are mad I'm so distracted I missed their usual 4:00 fancy feast feeding (I must be on the dot 4:00 per shi shi's insistent reminders)
6:13 Zip into Car with camera / audio MP3 recorder, Countpaperballots business cards and Bright orange signs
6:14 Go back in my house to get the forgotton COX BOX for activist friend (the black box that has cut outs for her to wear her white scream mask and the white gloves and her superb velvety hat, awesome little thing that Cox Box that says things like Voting On Electronic Machines is like Eating without Food)
6:15 Dash down the highway driving 90mph so as not to miss the event
6:59 arrive at the Decatur Library
7-9ish Watch Cathy Cox make up some crazy crap about there not being CERTIFIED DIEBOLD PRINTERS for the making of paper ballots, and that she even tried to introduce them to NCR but that Diebold has nothing certified for their touchscreens and it's not as easy as using an HP printer (this is crazy , really crazy stuff here, it is that easy, it really is, if Diebold were not a monopolistic maniacal 'in control of GA elections and knows it' kind of company, anyone else would see the the benefit to putting a SERIAL port on the damn machines or some kind of existing printer to Serial port conversion so a friggin standard HP printer can work just fine!!!! newsflash, technology is not the reason Cathy Cox cannot provide us paper ballots, Cathy Cox is the reason Cathy Cox cannot provide Georgians paper ballots
**** Some Audience Hissing (at the very appropriate times when she says the word Diebold for instance
******* My FAVORITE OF THE EVENING, was when Cathy Cox says There's Been Fraud in GA (the audience claps before she finishes) and then she says WHEN WE DID PAPER.... hee hee
**** 2nd Favorite was an activist rebuttal to Cathy Cox's diatribe on how bad Scanning of paper ballots caused disenfranchisement with high rates for african american votes, this guy just blurts out "DOES ANYONE HERE WANT OPTICAL SCANNED MACHINES" wow , that was great, and of course the audience chimed NOOOOOOO
*** Cathy Cox starts her speech by saying, she had received an email that an activist (name excluded to protect the innocent) had sent out and that she knew there would be activists in the audience that the evening was destined for "ENTERTAINMENT" her words... Ok, Cathy, do you think citizens taking back their democracy is entertaining? we don't think it's entertaining to have to lose our jobs and spend our hard earned money fighting this craziness... but hey, she chose her words, she made her grave, she'll have to lie in it.... Her career as a Georgia politician, quite possibly just ended last night... Also, that Cox knew about and referenced that the activist group (of which there were indeed 20 people) had a pre-meeting to practice the questions for Cathy... why did we have this meeting? simple, because she uses rhetoric and lies when speaking to Georgia and we had to rehearse how to ask her pointed questions to which she'd have to reply with qualified answers...
needless to say, she left the room abrubtly (even after promising to take 3 more questions) without answering a single question posed to her by many of the audience members... not a single question did Cathy Cox answer honestly or with intent to guide us toward what we could as citizens do to fix the OBVIOUS election problems...

*** Cathy Cox staffers overheard leaving the auditorium saying "THAT'S IT CATHY JUST LOST THE ELECTION"
***** RS (names hidden to protect the innocent) a staffer to Cynthia McKinney quoting and I mean quoting a long list of Diebold's big problems, the felon programmers, the Wallie O'Dell GOP connections, on and on, it was awesome, he left out nothing and saying to Cathy that the technical problems have to be solved to print paper ballots for elections period. He deserves a star for his wonderful speech and it was powerful that it was not a citizen but another respected government official ** my personal triumph, that when I went up to him, he had a copy of my Powerpoint on Georgia election problems in his notebook!!! woweee.. that was fantastic....
******** FINALLY, the grand finale.... a woman got up, who has 2 very smart, powerful, elegant, educated, 20 something, strong children with her and she gave the most passionate and from her heart speech of evening, about she does not want to leave this legacy to her children, that she demands to have democracy back (I'll type a transcript of her speech it was so moving)


THE REAL KEY TO THE EVENING IS THAT CATHY LEFT THE ROOM ABRUPTLY WITHOUT GIVING US A REASON WHY, SHE JUST LEFT A CITIZEN FORUM LIKE OUR CONCERNS ARE NOT HERS TO WORRY ABOUT.... and this after only a few minor hissess, some laughing about the Fraud comment, and one audience member blurting that we don't want optical scan machines.. and a respected staffer of McKinney quoting to Cathy what she does not want to hear, that Diebold is rife with problems, and her response, besides giving some crap that there is NO TECHNOLOGY OUT THERE to print votes, and after being asked to go back to paper and denying that this would be a good thing, she just left this citizen forum before many of the people who intently wanted to see her answer questions, myself included, I did not get to ask my question of her, cause she chickened out, like a Bush person, really, it was so Bushesque to just leave and ignore the citizens and treat us like we're nothing and have no power... well let me tell you something, we have more power than anyone can possibly imagine.. so let me proceed to my next comment

FRIDAY MORNING:
9:45-12:00 Go to Einstein's for the Atlanta taping of UNPLUGGED Air America Radio with Rachel and Liz and others.... and blurt out when Liz or Rachel says "Is this the Good Cathy or the Bad Cathy?" and then I just blurted out "The Bad Cathy Cox, she is a Zell Miller Democrat, a Zealot" and to have Liz pick up on that and say she was glad to hear this phrase "Zealot", and cannot wait to use it again for Bush like Democrats, and then to have them echo that Cathy Cox is a Zealot was like awesome!!!!!

Ok, in about a few hours...., will have the live video feed of the evening online on my website........

All the activists went out afterward, (had a nice Guigal Red wine) at a Decatur Cafe and others went to dinner and sure enough everybody just reminisced on what a great evening, that it was the perfect mix of civility and activism to show that we're more than a few people, the movement is growing (must have been at least 50 folks in room only 10% of whom really were on Cathy's side)

great, great , great evening for Georgia activism, bad bad bad evening for Madame Secretary's gubenatorial campaign.....

*** Oh yeah, one more diary entry.....
Talk to Founder of Air America Radio on the importance of Cox releasing access to the Diebold CD to citizens as it's our right to have that data... he said he'd make a personal call to her on my behalf... wow... that was great too! besides seeing all my friends there .....

[keepthemhonest]

18. Very nice summation

of the meeting. I this statement "technology is not the reason Cathy Cox cannot provide us paper ballots, Cathy Cox is the reason Cathy Cox cannot provide Georgians paper ballots"

Her comment about "some entertainment tonight" bugged me as well and definately shows a lack of respect for the citizens.

I guess we'll start hearing Zealot all over the place now and I hope her new name sticks with her.

[Chi]

19. Very Nice write-up Rigel

Congrats to all who showed up prepared. Sorry you didn't get to ask your question.
Look on the bright side, her walking out in a huff was probably the best result that could have come from the forum.
Specially since there was video. 8)

[rigel99]

22. VIDEO Already part of the VoterGate Movie

guess what, her action last night will be memorialized in the next movie called VoterGate by some very awesome folks who will this summer show a movie that catalogs the entire long voter reform struggle...wwweeeeee... these guys are the next Michael Moore, I can feel it in my bones....

Also, as soon as I can throw the page up, I'll send you the link... very funny some of the statements she made...

almost laughable if it were not so darn serious...

let's just say it's time we boot up our legal machine as our next priority... it's time for serious action, folks.. good thing my official Lexis/Nexis copy of the GA election code came in the mail.. it's awesomely huge but has caselaw references and everything. eyecandy!!.. I'm getting my wish early in life I wanted to be a lawyer.... I guess I have to go to law school now....

later!

[Cookie wookie]

26. Some corrections to riggel99 post

Quote 1: “7-9ish Watch Cathy Cox make up some crazy crap about there not being CERTIFIED DIEBOLD PRINTERS for the making of paper ballots,”

Quote 2: "and that she even tried to introduce them to NCR but that Diebold has nothing certified for their touchscreens and it's not as easy as using an HP printer (this is crazy , really crazy stuff here, it is that easy, it really is, if Diebold were not a monopolistic maniacal 'in control of GA elections and knows it' kind of company, anyone else would see the the benefit to putting a SERIAL port on the damn machines or some kind of existing printer to Serial port conversion so a friggin standard HP printer can work just fine!!!!”

(1) What Cox actually said that there isn’t any certified technology to print a voter verified paper receipt. Actually the technology to do such printing does exist and is certified: http://www.aitechnology.com/votetrakker2/.

Currently the National Association of State Election Directors (NASED), provides the text lab certification process for electronic voting systems. This will transition in April 2005 to the National Voluntary Laboratory Accreditation Program (NVLAP), under NIST and the EAC as required by HAVA Section 231. NVLAP will provide independent evaluation of certifying laboratories competence. Labs are to apply to NIST in April 2005.

Avante’s voting system is certified to 1990 NASED Voting System Standards, the same certification year as the Diebold system used in Georgia, only Avante’s system has the technology to produce voter verified paper ballots. Both Avante and Diebold have applied for certification to 2002 VSS, but there is no documentation on the NASED website to indicate that Diebold is ahead of Avante in having received such certification. Documentation is available in pdf form from: http://www.nased.org/certification.htm

This being said, Athan Gibbs, the inventor of the TruVote system which produces voter verified paper ballots, told me shortly before his death last spring, that Georgia did not need to purchase his system because there were many thermal printers, like the ones used in retail and other businesses, that could easily be retrofitted to Georgia’s DES. When Cynthia McKinney’s Constituent Services Rep in Georgia mentioned TruVote to Cox during the Town Hall, Cox said they were no longer in business. That is not exactly correct. TruVote, after Gibbs death, has been undergoing some challenges and no longer has their website up, but they are presently working on developing new software for their system which is planned for release this summer (2005). I spoke with them a few weeks ago. They consider themselves to still be in business.

Both the TruVote and Avante systems were demonstrated before the State and Local Governmental Operations Committee, with Cox in attendance last spring, during the Georgia State Assembly’s session hearings on Senate Bill 500.

(2) The touchscreen voting stations on Georgia’s DES have serial ports and printers can and have been connected to them and used to print ballots, according to Kathy Rogers, Election’s Division director at a demonstration at Kennesaw Elections Center in September 2003. However, this is not a practical or satisfactory way to make the voter verified paper ballots we need and is not what Georgia activists have been recommending, therefore it is an argument that Cox made (and has made before) that does not address a viable solution or any solution that has ever proposed by activists for vvpb in Georgia.

[JohnGideon]

27. I Have The Up-To-Date NASED List

According to Brian Hancock of the EAC the list should be up on the NASED website any time now. (He told me that over a week ago and I finally had to threaten an FOIA request so he sent me the updated list this morning.)

Avante's optical scan system is certified to 2002 standards but their DRE system is certified to 1990. Nothing Diebold has is certified to 2002. That includes components that were certified last month.

It is very strange that ES&S, Diebold and Sequoia have nothing except ES&S's Unity 2.5 that is certified to 2002. I am hearing rumors that one of the reasons that Sequoia is for sale is that nothing they have can be certified to 2002.

[Eloriel]

82. Cookie -- question

(And a comment.)

You said:

The touchscreen voting stations on Georgia’s DES have serial ports and printers can and have been connected to them and used to print ballots, according to Kathy Rogers, Election’s Division director at a demonstration at Kennesaw Elections Center in September 2003.

True. In fact, it's my understanding that HAVA requires this, they're called "ballot images." There is no assurance, however, that anything printed after the fact, without VOTER VERIFICATION would be an accurate copy of the voters' individual intents. BUT, it's possible NOW to print these ballot images.

However, this is not a practical or satisfactory way to make the voter verified paper ballots we need and is not what Georgia activists have been recommending, therefore it is an argument that Cox made (and has made before) that does not address a viable solution or any solution that has ever proposed by activists for vvpb in Georgia.

Why are you saying it's not practical or satisfactory? With a printer port, just about ANY MS-compatible printer can be used. And just as importantly, IMO, these "certification" processes have always indicated that "off the shelf" computer hardware and software did not REQUIRE separate certification.

So I've never quite understood why activists didn't pin down that port thing down and force printers NOW. You know, the last laser printer I bought -- a fairly quick and sturdy one, about a year ago now, cost me about $200 -- and I don't get volume discounts.

[Cookie wookie]

86. Hi Eloriel

Do you mean using desktop laser printers? That technology is what I meant, though didn't specify adequately as I reread the post, as not being satisfactory for a number of reasons, but maybe I overstated the case against it and other activists think desktop laser printers are a viable option.

If that's so, then Cox is responding to real demands when she uses potential problems with desktop printers as her justification for why Georgia voters can't have vvpb. She cites problems with printers creating long lines, having paper jams, poll workers having to change toner cartridges in the middle of elections, poorly printed ballots that can't be read, etc. And I must say, every day at the office our HP laser printer does something goofy and maddening. It's a miracle when it will print, and it's a top of the line model, less than a year old.

But you do have a point that if we can't get anything else, then something is better than nothing. However, there are a number of activists who see the onboard printer as the next viable option if nothing else can be afforded. I've never thought that could be implemented because of the location of that printer inside the voting station and my not being able to imagine the state allowing holes to be cut in all the voting station bases and plexiglass covers being manufacturered to fit exactly and then installed so that voters could look at the vvpb before "accepting" their choices.

There is technology better suited to the task of print ballots of various sizes depending on the number of races in the election, having a plastic cover over the paper to keep voters from tampering with the printed ballot before it goes into the lock box, attached lock boxes into which the tape scrolls, built in paper cutters, thermal ink technology, which from my research is much more practical and less maintenance than laser printer cartridges for this kind of application. Then there are the logistics of setting up the stations to include separate printers adjacent to the voting station (again talking about laser printers) -- would need to purchase, set up, break down and store tables for the printers to be placed on, how would that work, would voters print a ballot, look at it, decide not to accept it and then what? whereas the attached thermal printers for TruVote and Avante have these problems solved in their implementations. Etc.

I have photos of some of the printers/setups that would be more suited to the job. Here's a link to a photo taken from the TruVote website before it went down:

http://www.photodump.com/viewer/Cookiewookie/0322-md2_truvote.html

[rigel99]

28. Weblink: After Cathy Walks Out Commentary by Activists.....

this woman is awesome.... I asked her permission to put
this online and she said, "YES",

I want to get other snippets of the video online, but this woman's speech is so inspirational to me, I might just get a transcript of it....
http://www.countpaperballots.com/CoxWalksOutOfTownhall-Is-She-a-Zealot/AfterSpeech.MPG

[Cookie wookie]

29. The clip gives a good feel for what the

mood of the Town Hall was.

One note, Cathy Cox is not scripted by anyone. She brought paperless voting to Georgia, she has promoted it, she has been the leader in the fight to keep Georgians from having transparent auditable elections, with her Elections Division staff following her lead.

[Helga Scow Stern]

41. That was heartwarming....

it's starting to happen all over.

[kster]

89. Good work

Regel99, Go Go Go

[rigel99]

30. LAST NIGHT was a proud moment for Geogia Activists... Bravo

I have to say this because it's been burning a hole in my soul.

Last night was a proud moment for our Georgia activists that have spent many years (or new folks many months) fighting this and I just wanted to give a hand to everyone who participated in organizing the citizen action!!! hats off!!!

I believe the revolution has taken off in Georgia... and guess what, it will be televised!

[BeFree]

31. All I can say is:

The South is gonna do it again!

Good work, rigel, loved reading this thread.

[WeHoldTheseTruths]

39. You folks are kicking ass and making history.

And I just want to say thank you.

You know how important this is, and lots reading here know how important it is . . . and I just don't have the words right now.

Also, thanks for your reports and video!

I hope and trust that you will enjoy many future successes.:)

:yourock: Well done!

[BushSpeak]

33. Hey rigel99, Here are some more bullets for Diebold!

Here is some more ammunition, so you can reload for the next Cathy Cox meeting.

First, a link to page of hilarious anti-Diebold posters.

Diebold Variations
"Also, it's convenient if your re-use includes the text string "Diebold Variations," and I greatly prefer it if there's a link back to this page and I'd appreciate being advised of use in advance"

Then on to the ethics of the e-voting companies. They have people writing our vote counting software that are banned from owning a checking account and would be purged from the voter lists in Jeb Bush's Florida. This alone would make a powerful impact on the uniformed citizen's opinion of e-voting. If you can get journalists to concentrate on this, it might start to sway public opinion.

Take a page from the Rove/Goebbels study on Propaganda 101 - keep things simple, stick to a few points and hammer away until the public believes it.

Jeff Dean - Senior programmer at Diebold

"In 1990, Dean was convicted of first-degree theft in King County for 23 counts of embezzlement of more than $385,000 from a law firm, where he was “a computer systems and accountant consultant,” according to Superior Court records. Dean’s thefts at the law firm, the records state, “occurred over a 2 1/2 -year period of time . . . The crimes and their cover-up involved a high degree of sophistication and planning in the use and alteration of records in the computerized accounting system that defendant maintained for the victim. . . . ” Dean served just under four years for his crime and was released in 1995."

http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0406/040211_news_election.php">Election Pros Are Cons


"that Jeff Dean was a convicted felon is not the point of this story. What he was convicted of doing is the point of the story: tampering and computer theft. A reasonable person would consider every single computer, program and file that he could have touched to be tainted and untrustable. A reasonable person would conclude that a convicted hacker would have placed backdoors and/or deliberate defects in the software in reserve for later exploitation (because that is standard operating procedure for hackers). Nothing he touched could be considered trustable."

More E-Voting Follies

"One such felon, a 23-count embezzler named Jeffrey Dean, who
specialized in computer fraud, was made a director of Global Election
Systems in 2000, and then was assigned to be the head of research
and development, with access to all components of the most
sensitive parts of the voting system. The other, a cocaine trafficker named John Elder, has directed the sensitive punch-card printing for
both Global and Diebold, and has had involvement with the processing
of incoming absentee ballots. Elder is still running the printing division for Diebold.

While Diebold was loaning money to Global, embezzler Jeffrey
Dean remained a director of the company and, according to memos,
was involved with the Windows CE system used in the touch-screens
and the new 1.96 series optical scan software. He also was working
on a project to integrate voter registration software with the GEMS
central tabulation program, and he claimed to have developed a “ballot
on demand” system which, he bragged to Diebold, could optionally
connect a voter with the ballot — a feature which is certainly illegal
and would remove voter privacy.

Global Election Systems was formally purchased by Diebold Inc.
effective January 31, 2002, and at this time Jeffrey Dean became a
paid consultant to Diebold Election Systems and John Elder took
over Diebold’s national printing division.

Six weeks later, Diebold landed the biggest voting-machine order
in history: The $54 million conversion of the state of Georgia to touch-screen voting."

BlackBox Voting Ch. 8 pg 83 (pdf)

[rigel99]

34. OK, I like this

and it's odd, you basically were nailing the talking
points of Richard Searcy, the exact things he pointed
out to a crowded room, and got Cathy so rattled she left
shortly thereafter....

ok, so that's good. but now the framing is 'here's what's wrong' falls on deaf ears when 80% of the audiences knows most of what you just said, and everyone including Cathy cox is looking for a solution..

ok smart guy, (or gal) what's your solution.. meaning what do you say to folks who say, what can we replace or add to diebold to make the whole thing trustworthy again?

this is tonites fall asleep proposition for my brain... give me your best shot.. (I will read your links too)....

[Cookie wookie]

43. to question:

"...what's your solution.. meaning what do you say to folks who say, what can we replace or add to diebold to make the whole thing trustworthy again?"

Reading post 26 may be helpful for starters.

[rigel99]

35. HERE's who I"m up against....

odd little twist, met and shook the hand of Founder of Air America radio, a Mr. Josh Swinton, lives in Atlanta believe it or not.

BIG FAN OF CATHY COX.. troubled by today's show. Took my CountPaperBallots and my letter , from the Sec. of State's office signed by Kathy Rogers (because Cox always outsources her dirty work) and asked him to help me get access to the CD I need to audit Georgia elections..... he said he'd personally call her on my behalf... I"ll believe it when I see it....

So Then I hear he had a talking to with Rachel and Liz the show hosts about the Zealot piece, that I introduced calling Cathy Cox a Zealot did not go over with him, like he was covering his political capital with Cox.. like she has so many folks wrapped around her finger in Georgia it makes me sick and the best I can get out of the Dean folks is that Cathy is attractive, she looks great, she is the great hope of the Dem. party, but when I ask for substance, none of them can seem to point to a tangible thing she's done legislatively from her past... so now I have to research her history like a banshee... why? because even on Air America radio, I have to send my message, that Cathy Represents Diebold, that she defends them, that she is our ChoicePoint Executive who did not take responsibility for her actions, that it's time for her ONE ISSUE Of introducing 'rigged elections' was her poisoned arrow that is coming back in time to pierce her flawless run for governor..

BUt I have to go up against Tim Cairl in emails, head of Georgia for Dean, I have to go up against Air America owner, I have to go up against fundraisers who say 'do what you can but don't hurt Cathy Cox', like she has some invisble thread holding them back, holding them back from speaking the truth. It doesn't seem that folks get that she is the gatekeeper to the Diebold tragedy in Georgia, there is no fighting anything but the dragon and the dragon is SHE (Cox).

DAMMIT. I'm tired. I dont' want to be doing this. I'm not a sign carrying activist, it's really not my personality and yet I'm buying bright orange poster board, why? why? because at one point people had to burn their bras to get women's rights... and right now, I'm having to lean way 'activist' to get the point across to many democrats living in a fog of denial...

i will fall asleep hoping the great Democratic fog of denial lifts from the masses and all will see the truth as plainly as it is written everywhere...

[Cookie wookie]

42. Best way to work with any of these people is to have the

facts, thoroughly understand the issue including Georgia politics, know exactly how the technology and the system's process works, etc. Without that, anyone working to change people's minds about Cox and the DES will look like nothing more than a tin foil hat conspiracy theorist and not only won't be taken seriously, will make it harder for legitimate activists, because it sets up resistance.

So, recommend doing that homework before trying to convince Cox supporters of anything. Saying Cox has introduced "rigged elections" requires proof and it looks like slander without it.

Working to get proof, no matter how many spreadsheets one has, doesn't mean one has proof.

[rigel99]

47. FACTS...

the only facts I need are the Diebold DRE tapes I've spent a little over 10K buying personally... when I threw this WHITE COUNTY example of DRE Tape crap on a Georgia activist table, no one picked it up.. it's like the activists don't want to get in the trenches and get the real facts, facts a Georgia court will use to start suing and putting misdemeanors and felonies out as prize for bad election behaviour..

I don't have to be a georgia politics guru to sue the state. I don't even have to know how the DRE machines work to bring a lawsuit about their 'secret vote counting', all I have to do is have backbone, which I have ample / plenty and to ignore the activists who talk alot and do actual fact finding (little).

I appreciate legislative efforts, but I"ve said 20 times and I'll say it again, our best angle now is legal. A republican house/senate will not vote to give up the very systems that keep them in power. I suspect all of this will result in recalls.

I don't care about the tinfoil hat thing.... It's like Dean said, just show up and ask folks to be accountable. They have called Dean lots of names, and he still got in the DNC and he still speaks the truth. Dean is my inspiration. I'm doing that and my website is far from tinfoil.

The letters from Cathy Cox, Britt Williams and Unresponded to letters from Diebold are VERY REAL. The stuff MSNBC and ABC will eat up when we to the point that this data comes to bear... They do not cast the SOS in a very positive light... then I don't need to say anything, I just point to the letters, and the DRE tape vs. election summary discrepancies which I've found many, etc.....



I have learned to trust my own inner process and take words of advice very cautiously, but to proceed on my path because I feel deep down, it is the right path......

[rigel99]

50. Work with People

I'm working with elections workers all over the state.. 2 times a week I drive to some exotic part of Georgia (usually a place I've never even heard of ) and meet folks and speak to them.

they do not require I be an expert on Georgia politics... they merely share ream after ream after volume of their personal perspective on how elections in Georgia actually operate... my job is to merely catalog this process..

they do not see me as tinfoil, they see me as a concerned citizen with a legal right to open records information.....

if you're worried about when the cameras arrive, I have a personal dislike of cameras.. I will likely hire a PR person to handle the press conference.. that person will be highly scripted and on target with messaging.... so please trust, I know what I"m doing.....

[demodonkey]

36. Hey Phyllis and you you GA folks...

:yourock:

Keep up the good work! People are just starting to take baby steps up here in PA; I can point to you folks as inspiration!

MB in PA

[rigel99]

37. are you KIDDING ME..

I'd rank the kick ass states in this order, exactly.


WA because of Lehto
PA Because of YOU and Lynn Landes
then GA
then OH

the OH folks will get mad, but I'm biased, I judge the 'unspoiled' lawsuits out there... OH while having the most righteously raucous and best lawsuits money can buy, is also, stuck with Blackwell and a judicial system that is not unlike our federal single branch government (otherwise known as dictatorship).. so it's not for lack of good folks in OH, I just see too many cards stacked... WA/PA/GA have democratic judges in some sense that are old timers, big time democrats, like doing things just cause they are right thing to do....

I'm pulling for you PA folks to win a suit sooner than me so I can just cookie cutter it! so don't underestimate what you call baby steps.. I took a baby step Dec. 26th with help of some good old GA activists and that baby step is a huge leap when you realize it vetted this letter that gets good ole Cathy in trouble (she's in big trouble over that letter, ya'll)..... like I don't know how to be birthin' no babies and the look on Scarlet's face, kind of trouble......

[demodonkey]

38. Gee thanks, but no I'm not kidding, in my neck of the PA woods...

...a lot of people are just waking up to what really happened. You know our exit polls were off worse than Ohio's and we had more "incidents" at EIRS than any other state except Florida... yet lots of people up here still think we "went blue" so everything was OK.

Now the counties have to finally get serious about ditching the old lever machines up here, and are really starting to talk turkey about buying machines this year with the HAVA money, and it's just starting to hit home!

But for those of you who have gone before, and have dealt with this already and got the word out, we'd have a very good chance of PA getting snowballed (maybe I should say Die-balled) like you guys did with Madame Cox. But forewarned is forearmed so I think we are ready... OK it's a little bit more like a cat herd than an army right now in some areas, but we're working on it...
;-)

PS -- I found some really GOOD (not!) stuff in our PA HAVA plan this week... have to tell you all later, too much to type right now and I still have to finish an info-brochure about DREs before I get any sleep tonight!

MB in PA

[GetTheRightVote]

40. Sounds like you are on a roll, go get them liers

:kick:

[PitBoss]

44. .

.

[rigel99]

46. 45

this is cool..numbering the threads.. I like it... KICK..

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

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[rigel99]

58. read the threads...

I took not a single penny from her..... why don't you ask her?

sorry, her credibility is not very good with me. Her husband and she have defrauded millions. and it's not clear, but I think they approached me to infiltrate my election fraud investigation... overall, check you facts,

[Andy_Stephenson]

60. She is INNOCENT

till proven guilty!

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Andy_Stephenson]

66. It is only dirty...

If the Husband is involved. I see.

:crazy:

[Boredtodeath]

68. But, but, but....

It's evil, criminal, tainted money being spent by the not innocent wife and children.......

unless the checking account is changed to her name only......

that somehow washes the cash clean of "millions of crimes" committed so that Donna can keep it.......

or is it the divorce process that cleanses the money?

I'm soooooo confused.....

[Andy_Stephenson]

69. I think a biblical reference is in order here.

1 jeb 12-13

"and when thou doest divorce thine husband. Thine money shall be cleansed white as snow, and the sins of the father are removed thence forth"

So as you can clearly see...the divorce process is the mechanism by which the money is cleansed. Now about those sins Donna has committed...That is another story alltogether.

[Boredtodeath]

72. ROFLMAO!

But shouldn't that chapter reference actually be:

1 phyllis 12-13 ?

and we can probably add
2 phyllis 1-2
"and when thou doest tithe 50% of that tainted money to the church of phyllis, the sins of Donna are removed thence forth"

[rigel99]

71. GREAT LETTER TO EDITOR in Georgia Tech's Newspaper...

This is an awesome example of election activism.

I'm proud of Sarah for posting this in the Georgia Tech Newspaper!!! This is what being an activist is all about, editorials!

http://nique.net/issues/2005-02-25/opinions/4

YOUR VIEWS Letters to the Editor
Facts disagree with opinion



In reading last week ' s letter to the editor, I found many incorrect and inaccurate statements. One of the main points Michaels makes is that since Georgia passed the amendment to the constitution banning gay marriage, Tech should not offer

privileges to homosexual couples that it offers to married people. I

would like to take the time to point out a few incorrect statements he

made when supporting this argument.

First, he claims that 87 percent of Georgians voted for the marriage amendment. This statement is blatantly false. According to the Georgia Secretary of State ' s office, 76 percent of voters who cast ballots on Nov. 2 voted for

the amendment, while 24 percent voted against the amendment.

Second, if we look a little closer at the election data, we find

that only 60 percent of voters who cast ballots in Fulton County voted for the amendment. In the precinct served by Georgia Tech, precinct 02X, 60 percent voted against the amendment. So by using Mr. Michaels ' convoluted logic, Georgia Tech might actually want to offer privileges to same sex couples.

Third, in the actual text of the amendment, the only

reference regarding benefits for same sex couples is a statement declaring Georgia ' s refusal to recognize benefits given to same sex couples in a union recognized by another state. The amendment does not actually make

any reference to what privileges an institution such as this one can give to individuals as it so chooses.

There is no law requiring Tech to offer married student housing. It is a privilege offered on a space available basis to students who meet the Department of Housing ' s

qualifications. Any decision to change said qualifications should be left to Housing.

I would have expected that Tech students, particularly Ph.D.

students, would have the ability to properly use data and facts to support

their arguments. After reading Mr. Michaels ' letter, I guess I am proven wrong.

Sarah Lapp

[rigel99]

56. paypal history.. received $20 so far, paid $30 out...

Here is my paypal history..
and for a listing of the personal money I've spent, http://www.countpaperballots.com/donate.htm

Over time, the website will prove I've paid thousands of dollars
in Open Records fees and expenses to process the paperwork to prepare for a lawsuit... to date, the sum total of accepted donations, $20.00. But I plan a full direct mail campaign fundraiser in the following weeks. Georgians will give liberally, of this I am certain....


I've received $20 from an activist contributor and I've given $30 to Andy Stephenson...
*** PAYPAL SUMMARY *****
All Activity - Advanced View from Jan. 27, 2005 to Feb. 26, 2005
Date Type To/From Name/Email Status Details Action Gross Fee Net Amount Balance
Feb. 11, 2005 Payment To Andy Stephenson Completed Details -$30.00 USD $0.00 USD -$30.00 USD $0.00 USD
Feb. 11, 2005 Transfer From Bank Account Completed Details $29.62 USD $0.00 USD $29.62 USD $30.00 USD
Feb. 9, 2005 Transfer To Bank Account Completed Details -$33.00 USD $0.00 USD -$33.00 USD $0.38 USD
Feb. 9, 2005 Payment From XXXXXXXXXX Completed Details Ship $20.00 USD -$0.88 USD $19.12 USD $33.38 USD
Feb. 7, 2005 Payment From XXXXXXXXXXXXX Completed Details Ship $15.00 USD -$0.74 USD $14.26 USD $14.26

[Andy_Stephenson]

57. I will be returning the $30

I cannot be a part of this campaign against Donna.

[rigel99]

59. go for it..

I could use the money...

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cookie wookie]

54. In the America of our Constitution and Bill of Rights

people are innocent, no matter what crime they may be accused of, until proven guilty in a court of law.

[rigel99]

61. and DIEBOLD is innocent

until proven guilty... which is why I'm building a case for fraud against citizens of Georgia.. but I don't need a judge to tell me Diebold has defrauded millions of their right to vote anymore than I need a judge to tell me ChoicePoint executives have defrauded millions.

when does accountability begin in America... before or after you defraud millions of people of their money? When?

[Cookie wookie]

64. I would be concerned about being sued

for libel for the wording in that post and others.

[Andy_Stephenson]

67. So would I

Donna...Girl...get a lawyer.

[Cookie wookie]

76. Andy

Hope you're feeling better.

Would you mind removing that person's first name from your post?

[adarling]

83. you should be ashamed of yourself Rigel

You pretend to be someones friend so you can blast them like this, you are no better than the republicans who you say you are trying to defeat. You don't know these people except the mother and wife through this network and you say such awful hateful things. The investigation is still going on and you don't know anything at all. The only information you seem to have is the crap you get off the internet. How dare you attack someone that has been fighting the same cause. Instead of persecuting someone, love thy neighbor that kind of thing. It sickens me that someone would let you post something like this. You think you are all honorable and righteous for saying this and placing this all over, you are trash. Its a shame this is how repubs and everything else can make people and you are no better than the rest of them, do you have no decency? Shame on you. Come after anyone of us that don't have a family and are going through something this embarrassing and lets see how long we put up with your crap.

[rigel99]

84. nope, not me..

no shame...

not me.....

[adarling]

85. expected as much

You seem pretty nuts and i agree with the whole yellow journalism. You talk so much about how you are the only doing anything, yet i am pretty sure all you do is surf the internet finding alot of "stuff" that isn't really anything tangible that can hold together. You give democrats a bad name, grow up and think about how you aren't really helping anyone but yourself. Anyone that takes your advice is off the wall as much as you are. shame, such a shame.

[rigel99]

63. JUST PUT IN THE MAIL

an invitation to run for Governor of the State of Georgia to a very well regarded politician.

A progressive
a fiscally responsible awesomely talented politician.

Let's hope she says yes!

[Cookie wookie]

65. self deleted. n/t

[Peace Patriot]

73. Great work, rigel99! Thank you! Thank you! n/t

[Boredtodeath]

75. Yeah, "great" work

Innocent college age children are being threatened and harassed thanks to rigel99's great work. Glad you're proud. </sarcasm>

[Peace Patriot]

88. Hey, Bored to Death! There are so many deleted posts above, I have no...

...idea what that controversy is about. It is incomprehensible. My comment had solely to do with the Cox meeting and related work by rigel99. That is what I was responding to.

Please don't use a smear brush on me. I have no idea what you're trying to say.

[helderheid]

97. Same here

Very confused and afraid I just stepped into a wasps nest!! :wtf:

[Boredtodeath]

98. Here are the facts

Rigel99 openly attacked a DUer who is an activist on this issue. This DUer happens to be married to the CEO of Choicepoint.

Rigel99 printed her private information including her home location (city) and private email address. Rigel99 suggested this DUer should divorce her "slimebag husband" after she changed the name on the checking account so she could keep all that dirty money.

This DUer has done nothing wrong. Nothing. She happens to be married to someone who MIGHT have done something inappropriate, though rigel99 certainly doesn't believe in innocent until proven guilty.

This DUer has college age children who are now being subjected to death threats and harrassment because rigel99 not only posted their private information here, she emailed it to multiple evoting lists.

This is the kind of person you are praising in the form of rigel99.

[rigel99]

100. HERE ARE THE FACTS..

I rigel99, personally apologize to the entire african american community that's ever been 'SCRUBBED UNFAIRLY" from a felog voter roll (thanks to Choicepoint), in Florida or elsewhere, on behalf of BoredToDeath.

I Rigel99, personally apologize to the millions of Americans who have had their identities stolen (thanks to Choicepoint), unfairly, because of inadequate government protection of your most precious asset, your identity, on behalf of BoredToDeath.

I Rigel99, personally apologize to all the hardworking folks in the election reform community, who have had their lawsuits compromised, or their activities curtailed as the result of GOP sympathetic corporations or individuals who knowingly or unknowingly were pawned to provide information that would help them continue to
disenfranchise voters
rig our elections
secretly count our votes
cost the taxpayers millions in costs ($93 per Diebold machine per year to be exact) that is attributed to the counties when they do not have budget or means to pay for such equipment, for what amounts to no more transparency in our election.....

On behalf of BoredToDeath..

TO all of you , I am deeply sorry and you have my utmost gratitude that you remain a citizen of America with all the betrayal you have suffered from this country.................

[Cookie wookie]

78. Do those here who praise rigel99's posts not

read all the posts that assert, with documentation, that rigel99's posts are filled with mistakes, misinformation, exaggerations, false claims, etc? Is it that the facts posted by others are too boring to read or too difficult to comprehend?

Praising what might safely be defined as "internet yellow journalism" just feeds more of the same. It certainly hurts everyone's efforts to get vvpb. How can it be said any plainer?

[Boredtodeath]

79. Hyperbole and spin are all that count

Along with unprovable statements and conjecture.

Those things play well at DU - facts be damned.

[rigel99]

80. Facts like Video / Audio and Signed Letters from SOS Office

that's what I"ve done this month..

besides spout out at the mouth, what have you guys done lately?

posers....

[adarling]

87. awesome post Cookie

Thats for damn sure

[keepthemhonest]

110. It sounds opinionated to me.That is why no one is paying

attention to your antics.I am not sure why you and the two other's (ones a newbie for some reason) seek out Rigel's threads and try to put a damper on citizen auditing the 2004 in Georgia and the legal process that will follow.

Many People on DU have been very encouraging to Rigel99 and support the efforts of Countpaperballots.com.One reason for the support is because Rigel is the only one doing an citizen's audit of the 2004 election here in Georgia.She is getting the backing of the ACLU and most of these ideas orginated from her and were implemented by her.I know Rigel99 and know her to be a generous person.
Rigel99 has single handedly financially backed(eventhough unemployed, and refused to take on any jobs thus far) so that full concentration can be made to this citizen audit and legal battle with Diebold ,Georgia and Cathy Cox. Rigel99 has paid for the counties DRE tapes and report out of pocket and did all of the writing and faxing to the counties,she did not even put that as an expense yet on the Countpaperballots.com becauswe she is too busy( these reports range from hundreds to thousands.)The only reason Cathy cox is being brought into the whole ordeal is because she is the one who purchased them and stole our ballot away from us in Georgia. Rigel99 and Countpaperballots.com are doing an excellent job and I openly support it.I would like to back Cathy Cox but she needs to admit that she made a mistake and that she needs to correct it.I have an open mind and accept that people can change.
As far as the whole ChoicePoint deal, I am not sure why you are defending them,they probably stole your identity too.It is all over the news about what happened with Choicepoint The "wife" is the one who seeked out RIgel to supposedly donate(since they have so much extra dirty money)got a some info and then never sent a check. Not that Rigel wanted it anyway and I would not want it either.

I am sorry but I do not see how it is hurting any efforts to get a VVPB, these are two separate groups with two separate issues.move along.

[rigel99]

81. thanks for getting it..

peace patriot..

[rigel99]

74. AUDIO SNIPPETS OF EVENING

my favorite, Cox saying, "Not as easy as hooking up a Hewlett Packard Printer"..."You don't want to go there, you don't want to put uncertified...."

when asked about Diebold printing out Paper Ballots

http://www.countpaperballots.com/CoxWalksOutOfTownhall-Is-She-a-Zealot/CathyNotAsEasyAsHPPrinter.wav


hmmmm...
and the wonderful first question, it's wonderful to see so much activism asking the tough questions..

http://www.countpaperballots.com/CoxWalksOutOfTownhall-Is-She-a-Zealot/FirstQuestion-RightToVoteTakenAway.wav

"Consider that it's my vote that allows me to claim I'm an American Citizen"
then he reaches in his pocket and pulls out a $10 bill and says he's willing to contribute to the technology to print paper ballots....
wow!

[rigel99]

77. TRANSCRIPT of that very courageous woman speaking out...

I had to do it...

I had to capture this woman's words for all to hear... she really is amazing....

The first woman is great, saying might as well go back to using toilet paper, it'll clean their behind... hee hee..****


The second woman, a very distinguished looking woman I might add...

http://www.countpaperballots.com/CoxWalksOutOfTownhall-Is-She-a-Zealot/AfterSpeech.MPG link to the video..
**** AS best I could hear, the TRANSCRIPT OF HER SPEECH *****
*** Spoken directly after Cathy Cox left abruptly without saying why
she would not address more citizen questions..

This is really not a question, I did have some questions, but
but since the darme of the show left, I would just like to make a comment

that was in itself, make us feel, make us lose confidence in our representatives when we are short-changed, we can't even have our...

townhall meeting without feeling some kind of way to rush and rush and get our question, but

I'd would just like to say this as a taxpaying citizen

we're spending BILLIONS OF DOLLARS going around the world, checking other people's <not sure word>

we don't have anybody over here checking what we're doing
APPLAUSE

we already seeing the injustices that are taking place within the last few years

Now that I would like to say as a taxpaying citizen is this, I really don't expect for the young lady here, uh, Cathy Cox, I know she's limited in her power, she's like the rest of us,

we all live under somebody else's rules, and she's, alot of her verbiage of what she says is already scripted for her

I can appreciate her position but I DON'T HAVE TO ACCEPT IT....

we have all kind of sophistocated bombs, we have satellites peeping into the back room

we cannot develop a simple thing as voting and getting a printout, NO
AUDIENCE: Verifiable Voting
Well no, I'm not even gonna...let me please finish....

It's not partisan what I'm saying, it's both for Republican as well as for Democrats

People you can say You think you are getting people that most
Represent what you want in this world
BUT WE ALL ARE SLOWLY LOSING OUR FREEDOMS, America is.. (APPLAUSE)

in Iraq and pakistan all over the world fighting for other people's freedoms and we're losing ours everyday, and we sit back complacently
coming in here and asking a few minutes questions and feeling intimitated because you won't answer me.

WE CAN'T SPIT ON THIS PEOPLE

I don't care if you're rebpulican, democrat, libertarian, I don't care what you are....

You're gonna leave a legacy of children who are gonna live with this mess after you're dead and gone
APPLAUSE


people all over the world <cannot understand> because they think we are the ideal society

[rigel99]

90. CALLING ALL NUMBER CRUNCHERS

Tomorrow evening the ACLU decides to take on or not my case
for litigating to get access to the Open Records data including
the CD.

I need to pick 10 counties in GA that will be strategic places to have this data (counties that the data will either affect the outcomes etc.).

I have a spreadsheet I've begun that does a red to blue shift comparison.... here it is online to help you... click the tabs to see the detailed numbers....
CLICK The first tab for a 2000/2004 Red/Blue and Orange Analysis
(Orange represents 7% margin of difference in both candidates,
meaning the candidate won but by 7% or less)

http://www.countpaperballots.com/Audit/2004ElectionAudit300.htm

PICK 10 COUNTIES...... submit them to me..... this will be fun....

[berniew1]

91. I'm a data analyst and didn't have much time to look at your data, but

based on my experience looking at touchscreen fraud I would look in the big counties with a lot of minority voters.
Like Fulton, Dekalb, Richmond, etc.
Its easier to make a difference there with a relatively small swing.
In a big population that votes 90% Dem, reducing it to 80% would make a big difference in total votes.

[rigel99]

92. good point

so let me understand why you want to study the big minority counties...

you value trying to catch them manipulating totals even in Kerry centric counties like Dekalb, and what is the endgame or value of that?

in other words if you can really only pick 6 counties, don't you want to focus on counties where the change in results shifts the county from Bush to kerry?

what's the PR value (or even legal angle) of proving a VERY DEEPLY kerry based county had a few more votes than they really had? other than to prove BUSH did not have his mandate... which is great, but that's not what I"m shooting for, I"m shooting for INVALIDATING all diebold machines nationwide and casting a shadow of doubt on all DRE machines... that being the goal it seems saying 'this county went from red to blue' after we discovered a 5% fraud rate, etc....

but I'm thinking you have a bigger reason why the minority counties matter.... (I agree by the way) but I have limited time/money budget to buy those counties records, Dekalb is $5K and I"ve had to wait to get that one... I do have fulton though, so that could be one I look deeper at.....

[rigel99]

93. OK

also, think I was going to compare the %age of NEW Dem. registered voters to % of new REpub. voters.. because in both years, 2000 and 2004, Fulton & Dekalb are either exactly alike (fulton) or off by 1% Dekalb

so maybe the angle is LOOK AT THE TOTAL NEW REGISTERED VOTERS and tell me that X% Democrats all of a sudden started voting Republican....

[texpatriot2004]

95. Hi Rigel99 what happened at the GA citizen's forum? Recap?

Is there a synopsis here of what happened? Am I understanding that the person you guys were questioning walked out with the prospect of having to answer your questions? Cool.

Thanks for the summary.

[rigel99]

99. Here's the summary

HIGHLEVEL:
We had a Citizen forum with about 40-50 folks in the auditorium.
Cathy Cox spoke for 20 minutes or so on her issues, then the floor was opened to questions....

3-4 Folks asked their questions and then Cathy decides based on audience doing things like 'hissing' when Diebold mentioned or applause when she said "There has been fraud in GA" (huge applause)
then she finishes "With Paper ballots".. and then laughing when she said there was an MIT report out 10 days ago that blah blah blah again (lots of laughing from audience) and then finally when she says how awful Optical scanners are and how they disenfranchise African Americans much more then one guy just blurted out "DOES ANYONE IN THE ROOM WANT OPTICAL SCANNERS?" and the room all collectively said NOOOOOOOO this rattled her, then Benfield gets up and says "We'll take 3 more questions" and Cathy gets asked by Rep. Richard Searcy from Cynthia McKinney's office, he lists about 7 things that make Diebold scary ,from the programmer being a known criminal to Wally O'Dell connection to Bush, etc. and he keeps say, we have to do better, we have to fix this Cathy, and she keeps deflecting his comments with "I have met with you many times on this issue" like that's supposed to placate us....

Shortly after Searcy's questioning, Cathy VERY VERY VERY ABRUPTLY leaves without saying a word as to why, and I did note, without answering the 2 other questions that Benfield said would get answered.. in fact the person they chose after Searcy was a woman who we think was planted to ask Rep. Oliver a question, and we think that was the predetermined plan of Stuckey-Benfield and Cox for her to make an exit stage left.. but for us my video camera captured, the absolute almost shock of the audience that Cathy Cox just abruptly left without saying why and without fulfilling the 2 promises, first that all questions would be allowed to be asked( Benfield promised this at front of meeting) and 2ndly that (3 more questions would be answered) but Cathy only answered 1 of them and then made for the door.....

IF YOU COULD ONLY KNOW that other than some laughing, hissing and comments, there was relatively little audience disruption... we were much more tame , but her calling this "Entertainment of the evening" really really really sunk in, she does not in her heart believe she represents the citizens of Georgia. She behaves the way Bush behaves, that the government is her tool to manipulate at her will without listening to the concerns of her citizens that put her into office and pay her payroll every month...

MORE DETAILS OF MEETING
-Rep. Stucky Benfield called meeting to Order
-She gave some brief notes and issues dear to her
-She allows Rep. Mary Margaret Oliver speak about her "Ethics Bill" trying to reduce the total amount do $0.00 that representatives can take from special interests
THEN
- She gave the floor to Cathy Cox
- Cathy spoke for about 15-20 minutes about her activities and then they opened floor to questions.

1st Questioner , asked a pointed question about to the tune of paraphrased: Without voter verified Paper Ballot, how am I assured my vote is actually being counted and this vote is how I know I am a citizen of America assured the right to vote....

Her response was basically.. paraphrased:I hear your concerns, but as I described, there is not technology on the market today that is CERTIFIED (her caveat) by national Election standard bodies that can print these ballots in a manner that is not unwieldy (She went into this big thing about Nevada and the Huge roll of tape - think cash register tape - that had to be behind every machine to print the ballot and even then it was problem when person changed their mind and the thing printed a 2nd ballot , and the confusion that causes)...

bottom line I found in the Diebold manual where there is a serial port.. this is not rocket science folks.. she is clearly unwilling to listen to our concerns for paper ballots because either a. she is legally prevented from doing anything by the tight contract she has with Diebold or b. she really does TRUST Diebold in her naivete or my worst fear c. she is collaborating with GOP / or Dixiecrat structure / or Diebold or some larger group that has paid her to protect their interests in this matter...

all I know is that the Ga. election code calls for a felony conviction if election officials are found to have willingly participated in vote tampering......

[helderheid]

96. Good luck and God bless!

[rigel99]

101. ACLU Reviewing Case tonite....

Please send good energy that they have the wisdom to fight for
Open Records access to all citizens when it comes to their election data....

send good energy to them today so they choose to proceed with the case!!!!

[Hippo_Tron]

103. But she's a DEMOCRAT isn't she?

Why is she a Diebold hack?

[rigel99]

104. IT's hard to believe

in Georgia we have a long line of Zell Miller Democrats..

2002, we had 3 or 4 dems shift to being republicans after being elected as DEMOCRATS..

then you have the long history of dixiecrats.. folks that respond to the corporate interests and other lobbying power structure rather than to Democratic values....

that's the problem with our battle in GA, everybody thinks Cathy is good looking, that she's progressive in her activities to automate Georgia (the SOS corporation processes, etc.) and she speaks often at democratic meetings and presents well in public...

I even had a Dean friend say "she's the future of Georgia", but I kept pressing, WHY? WHY?, my friend finally could only cite one thing, "She looks good.'...

this is so hard... imagine the founder of Air America saying he'd contact this woman on my behalf and then no response. either she or the powerstructure club she belongs to is pulling a lot of people's strings and the rest is good ole 'discrimination', if she's a democrat and if she's cute, she must be a good gubenatorial candidate..... it's like a very big uphill battle to get folks to see the not so nice Cathy Cox... any ideas.. I'm all ears....

we're fielding another democrat for governor... that's how we solve this problem....

[liberalla]

109. Have you heard about Republicans redistricting Georgia?

This is off topic--but still about Georgia!

Republicans redistricting Georgia? OMG! Is this true?

http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/2/28/20583/0549#readmore

[rigel99]

111. Appreciate the update....

yeah, like as you put the knife (Diebold machines) in our Red Clay but blue blood hearts, and twisting harder, deeper, decide to redistrict?


HUUHHHH WTF??? do republicans enjoy this kind of torture..

but what this kind of thing points out is that even the republicans don't know the machines are rigged (only a top few at the top) or else why bother redistricting when you know all your mates will get elected anyway.... hmmmm.... sad.. some GA precincts/counties are so redistricted, it's like someone took a scapel to the counties.. very sad.....

[berniew1]

105. Ga: Our machines don't work too good and we don't want no hispanics here

Election officials in Twigg and Hancock counties had early-morning difficulties programming the correct ballots into some of their systems. The encoders built into the balky systems "were still encoded for the primaries, and they hadn't been updated," Story Archive
11/3/2004 Machine malfunction GA Walker County. Delays began early in the day at the Chattanooga Valley precinct with problems with an encoder, which is used to program the voting cards, Walker Board of Elections member Terry Morgan said. Diebold, manufacturer of the electronic voting machines, did not program the encoder properly, he said. Story Archive
11/3/2004 Malfeasance GA Failure to provide a list of early voters to Walker County poll workers delayed the ballot count Tuesday night. Elections workers said they had to check manually to weed out duplicate ballots. Story Archive
11/2/2004 Machine malfunction GA Twiggs County. Twiggs County voters arrived at the polls today to find they could not cast their votes on the Diebold computerized voting machines. The voting machines were down in all five precincts this morning because of an encoder problem from 7 a.m. until about 9 a.m., according to Twiggs Chief Registrar Linda Polk. Story Archive
11/2/2004 Machine malfunction GA Beaufort County . There were a number of precincts that had some problems today with the computers, but at one precinct in Seabrook, the computer broke twice within the first hour. According to poll workers, the machines just wouldn't take the ballots. Story Archive
10/30/2004 Too few machines GA Ideally, precincts have one machine for every 150 to 190 active voters, according to state officials and the vendor of the touch-screen units. Gwinnett County's average is 216 voters per touch-screen machine. Clayton County's is 236 active registered voters per machine. Story Archive
10/27/2004 Voter challenges GA Three white residents in rural Georgia have challenged most Hispanic voter registrations in their precinct, charging they are fraudulent. Most of those challenged have already proven their legal status as voters, but one wants a public hearing. Story
10/27/2004 Voter challenges GA In two Georgia counties, individuals recently challenged the citizenship status of dozens of people on the voter rolls, based on their Spanish surnames.

http://www.votersunite.org/electionproblems.asp?sort=date&selectstate=GA&selectproblemtype=ALL

[berniew1]

106. But at least they had a paper trail- thats good isn't it?

Advance voters are linked to their votes by a ballot number assigned to both their ballot and their ballot application. This violation of the Georgia Constitution occurred in the primary and is occurring again in the general election. See story about the primary

Malfeasance GA Ballot secrecy, guaranteed by the Georgia Constitution, is violated for early voters. Each early vote has a unique identification number tying it to the voter. More

[berniew1]

107. New Mexico Repubs didn't want hispanics & Indians voting there either

Evidence of false voter drives, disinformation phone calls and fliers that sought to selectively remove minority voters from rolls and prevent them from voting. Several instances in New Mexico of such groups targeting Hispanic and other voters for voter registration, only for the voters to find that there is no record of their registration on election day. There are also general complaints throughout Bernalillo County of last minute precinct relocation that appear to have targeted poor and minority voters. Study
11/10/2004 Fraud (misc) NM A Republican presiding judge in one particular precinct was in charge of several hundred bad ballots. The problem, County Clerk Mary Herrera said, was that the bad ballots, with affidavits inside, were largely Democrats. The good ones were for Republican voters."It made us kind of sick," Herrera said. "It was too obvious

www.votersunite.org

[rigel99]

112. PERFECT timing...

need 10 counties to litigate suits in, and Twiggs was on borderline and others not even in the consideration. so will take a gander...tomorrow is our pick the top 10 counties and start the deep dive day at the audit committee...

I need to scour the votersunite website.. I'm so busy working I don't have time to read these deep areas and your post just pinpoints me right to where I need to be so.... huge thanks.. if Twiggs turns the whole suit for us, you can have yourself to thank....

Found out ACLU needs one more month to consider case.. disappointed but at least not a NO....

thanks for post..

[rigel99]

113. Activist Summary of Cathy Cox's Response to our Townhall

this excellent piece of activist journalism outlines just exactly why in this time of complete lack of accountability in our 'unelected' officials, we as citizens must voice our concerns as loudly and dissent as plainly to let those who would enslave us know that their tenure is a tenuous one...

Democracy, Her Rowdy Dissents

(Concerning the Town Hall Meeting at Decatur Library, February 24, 2005)

March 6, 2005

XXXXXXXXXXX, Grassroots Organizer

Defenders of Democracy


it will be your dutyto quiet the minds of the people, to remove their prejudices; and, by mild and gentle persuasion, to induce such a submission on their part to this law

--Lord Dartmouth, Secretary of State for the colonies, letter to General Thomas Gage, April 9,1774, On Securing the Submission of Massachusetts



I see it with fear and trembling, that if the disputes with Great Britain continue, we shall be under the worst of all possible dominions: we shall be under the domination of a riotous mob. Gouverneur Morris letter to John Penn May 20, 1774, Against Revolutionary Enthusiasm


On Feb 24 2005, Georgia Secretary of State Cathy Cox came to speak at a meeting at the Decatur library. Representative Stephanie Stuckey-Benfield had requested her presence to speak on Voting issues at this town hall meeting. The meeting, which drew a standing-room only crowd of about 150 or so, proceeded without much incident until the last portion, which was reserved for a Q&A session with Secretary Cox, moderated by Representative Stuckey-Benfield and her staff.



At that point, Secretary Cox, in her introduction, pointed out correctly that Defenders of Democracy had prepared for this meeting, including a preparation Secretary Cox characterized as entertainment in case they dont like the way I answer questions.



Indeed, the group Defenders Of Democracy, of which I am a member, had discussed what questions we wanted to raise and in fact, the question of how to address the issue if Secretary Cox was less than forthright or was not answering the questions our group was asking. This discussion was based on our past experience with what our group feels is Secretary Coxs evasiveness.



Subtraction here.

As it turned out, no such group action ever took place.



As the meeting with Secretary Cox progressed, however, it became apparent that ours was not the only voice of dissent and distrust of the Secretarys rhetoric. As she made a number of statements many of us believe to be false or misleading, others (most not in our group) were heard to hiss. In my mind this was certainly an agreeable development, but not one we had discussed on the Tuesday night meeting. None of the leadership of our group, including myself, was engaged in the hissing. Several group members did stand up and take issue with several statements that she made.



As the meeting continued, Secretary Cox began to suggest that the only alternative to the current Diebold Virtual Voting system would be a return to a system of optical scanned votes (similar to a grocery checkout laser-upc code device, which she held to be rather inaccurate.



The deceptive thing about her alternative suggestion is that it is what is called in debate terminology, a false choice, a straw man argument, or in other words, a wild goose chase.



Let me explain by what I mean by wild goose chase.



Not one person in the audience had suggested up to that point that the Diebold Virtual Voting system be replaced with optical scanners. It certainly is not the position of Defenders OfDemocracy.



Three times Secretary Cox answered questions about citizens concerns of lack of transparency around the Diebold Virtual Voting system. She answered those questions with a detailed discussion about the inaccuracy and problematic nature of an Optical Scanner Voting System.



It was to me, an entirely dishonest, yet subtle debating parlor trick, if you willa simple distraction. Something along the lines of the booming voice of the Wizard of Oz saying do not look at the man behind the curtain! Instead of discussing the lack of transparency in the Virtual Voting system, she talked about a different issue-the problems with a system no one was asking to put in place. So I spoke up as Secretary Cox finished her third repetition of the optical-scanner rouse, and said loudly, is anyone in this room asking for an optical scanning system?



No one answered.



Now I will concede that my remark was not within the rules set down by Representative Stuckey-Benfield. Further, Ill agree that the hissing was mildly disruptive, and even disrespectful of Secretary Cox and Representative Stuckey-Benfield. I will say that no disrespect towards either was intended, and I wholeheartedly apologize if that was how my remark was received.



However, how otherwise is it possible to force the speaker to attend to the issue if not by voicing dissent. Exclamations are an acceptable way of political discourse, a style accepted even by the highly cultured and focused debate style in the British Parliament. Gosh, they do get excited in the British Parliament (catch em on C-Span sometime), and I dont think anybody hides their head in shame because they raise their voices on political matters.



Ill also concede that Secretary Cox is entitled to an honest difference of opinion about the issue of voting integrity: she established and therefore trusts the current system, and our group and many other citizens (including some in Decatur, apparently) do not. Also, I agree that Democracy must have rulesno one wants to descend to the violence that erupted in the Congress on the eve of the Civil War.



But some have written our group and implied that the behavior of our group and those others who freely expressed their dissent at that Meeting were out of the bounds of public discourse.



To those folks, I direct your attention to a bit of history of note: the eve of the American Revolution-and the strong dissent and hostility that was aroused when Colonists felt their fundamental rights were at stake. Some folks may feel that a well-mannered and cheerful address can never pose any kind of threat, but let me remind you of Lord Dartmouths directions to General Gaugethat mild and gentle persuasion may be used by the powerful to seek submission from unruly subjects who might otherwise dissent from a figure of authority.



Furthermore, there are those, like Gouverneur Morris, who feel decorum and manners are more important than other fundamental questions of civilization, such as consent of the governed. Indeed, many who have written about the radical nature of the dissent at the Decatur Library meeting remind me of Morris sentiment, with an emphasis on style and a sensibility of distrust around the sometimes untidy nature of democratic debate.



In the broad scheme of things, the dissent at that meeting was mild. Compare it to the outrage the Sons of Liberty expressed over the Stamp Tax in 1765-they first burned the local official, Oliver Andrews, in effigy, and later burned down his house. So on the scale of potential political outrage over fundamental questions of democracy, a little hissing and a few brief (if adamant) interruptions were fairly minimal. One might even argue that they displayed a lively and passionate debate, in which Secretary Cox was a partner.



Of course, it is the contention of our group that if Secretary Cox was very serious about citizens concerns about the transparency with virtual voting, she would have a more rigorous discussion of this issue and take responsibility for dealing with it personally rather than casting off blame on the Republican party or a lack of options presented by our voting machine vendors or a fictional false choice of optical scanning.



One person present at that meeting, Richard Searcy, who is an associate of Representative Cynthia McKinney, pointed out that the Secretary of State's office might profitably act like a business would in dealing with a problem and come up with a solution, rather than dragging its heels. He also noted that electronic voting machines have been produced that can generate a paper ballot, and that he had demonstrated the operation of such a machine before the office of the Georgia Secretary of State.



Thomas Paine, in The American Crisis, declared that Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered. Our group believes that the current system of virtual voting has the potential to pave the way to a form of tyranny. Paine further stated that the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink. We appreciated Secretary Coxs willingness to open herself to questions.



While we might agree that Secretary Cox is not King George III, or even Oliver Andrews or Lord Dartmouth, we would ask those who really believe in Democracy to rise rather than shrink, rise for a bit of passion, even a little bit of unrulyness in a public struggle over the means of selecting our leaders. It seems like an American-enough tradition.