Can We Use This Legal Argument?

[snot]

The article below is from http://tampatrib.com/floridametronews/MGBUBJ5QK9E.html .

My preface: If DUI tests aren't binding because the mfgr won't disclose how the test machines work, perhaps we can use the same argument re- black box election results. (However, note that many courts have reached contrary conclusions.) It seems to me our government simply should not "rent" trade secret technology for core governmental functions anyway, at least not unless all interested parties will be afforded full, continual access to it for purposes of determining whether it's working properly.

DUI Defendants Skip Charge By Asking How Test Works

SANFORD - Hundreds of cases involving breath-alcohol tests have been thrown out by Seminole County judges in the past five months because the test's manufacturer will not disclose how the machines work.
All four of Seminole County's criminal judges have been using a standard that if a DUI defendant asks for a key piece of information about how the machine works - its software source code, for instance - and the state cannot provide it, the breath test is rejected, the Orlando Sentinel reported Wednesday.
Prosecutors have said they do not know how many drunken drivers have been acquitted as a result. But Gino Feliciani, the misdemeanor division chief in the Seminole County State Attorney's Office, said the conviction rate has dropped to 50 percent or less.
Seminole judges have been following the lead of county Judge Donald Marblestone, who in January ruled that although the information may be a trade secret and controlled by a private contractor, defendants are entitled to it.
``Florida cannot contract away the statutory rights of its citizens,'' the judge wrote.
Judges in other counties have said the opposite: The state cannot turn over something it does not possess, and the manufacturer should not have to turn over trade secrets.

[adolfo]

1. My kind of Judge

"Florida cannot contract away the statutory rights of its citizens"

What are the statutory rights he is describing and are there any laws that nullify them?

[autorank]

2. EXTREMELY CREATIVE! Lets see what landshark says!

WWLSS-What Would Land Shark Say

[Wilms]

3. Hopefully he'll smell this.

[autorank]

7. Hmm...you know your lawyers...

[rigel99]

4. Ditto, WWLSS

what would landshark say?

more landshark bait pictures...

[rigel99]

5. My only friggin experience with how the machine works

is they called me a terrorist for asking for the Diebold CD that actually holds the ballots in Georgia
(see this link).
http://www.countpaperballots.com/cox-terrorist-response.htm

From what I heard, denying access to all aspects of election data is
within our rights as citizen and their denial has no merit (case challenged and won access to CD in Shelby county TN). You're right we must merely challenge them. But then they are in direct conflict with their Contract with Diebold... either way, it's time for citizens to start challenging on similar grounds to your point and I will use this analogy as I go to legal proceedings.....

thanks for the really good analogy....

[LightningFlash]

6. By Landshark's own writeup you can file a lawsuit.

It's possible that by filing multiple lawsuits, they will release the hard data over to people for analysis. It's much similar to the Washington case challenge done by the republicans.

You have to be able to get that data, so that you can find the funny business that happened like Florida has recently dug into.

[rigel99]

8. maybe I'm wrong

but even with Landshark he had to go in and inspect records, I"m not sure anyone has given away the 'digital files' that make up these systems...

I live in a diebold world so I'll spell it out.. I need the CD that is the county wide precinct by precinct (dre machine by dre machine)Backup of all the software/MS access files/Ballot setup files, etc. that makes up the 64K PCMCIA SAndisk memory cards inside the AccutVote Touchscreens.

to my knowledge no one has been able to secure this nationwide... if they have gotten the 'electronics' from any other vendor I'd be curious what case and Lexis search info. as I'd like to cite that in my ongoing legal efforts....

[LightningFlash]

9. Correct.

In fact that CD may be crucially valuable in the sense it could tell of aggregate problems, and under each catergory what votes were purged and so on. That CD could be the first step to examining the machine code.

If the county is saying specifically they can't hand out the CD because it's a terrorist threat, then they know there was fraud. You will most likely have to either cleverly "borrow" it, sue to get it, or go after it in court is my understanding.

[rigel99]

11. the suing will begin in june..

watch bibb county....
that's where my fireworks will start..... there is so much strategy behind what I plan to do.. keep your fingers crossed....

[zann725]

13. The votes are OURS after all! Let's file a Class Action nation-wide

to rightfully reclaim our votes. Grand Theft has occurred. It's about time the perps were apprehended.

[Land Shark]

10. Make like a bank and say: Diebold, if you don't disclose everything

in your ATMs, software code and all, we won't trust you with our money.

Speaking of trade secrets, I have a brief under WA law on this very subject, if anyone wants a copy. I haven't had time to drink lately and so don't think I'll need a drunk driving defense...

So, it's a very good idea overall.

Just hoping we can provide ballots with dignity equal to the dignity of the used air of a pair of lungs bathed in corporate trade secret tobacco smoke and corporate trade secret liquor recipes getting the right to discover the corporate trade secrets of the breathalyzer manufacturer (before the state takes away their few remaining rights).

This is not terribly new. Any expert that walks the halls of justice has to disclose all of their data and methodology to cross examination in the halls of justice. Just because we replace a human being with an "expert" machine doesn't mean that all the rules go out the window.

And if they want to keep secrets.... they know where they can go ... back to the private hole they came from.

[emlev]

12. Snot, here's another way you can use the argument

In letters to the editor or an op-ed piece, especially in papers in Seminole County. Use it to educate people to the dangers of e-voting.

It's a great argument, very creative (non-legal opinion here).