Carter/Baker Election Reform Hearing live webcast on now

[tommcintyre]

http://www.american.edu/ia/cfer/hearings.htm

Edit:

See hearing schedule here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x381183

[tommcintyre]

1. Holy Shit! Pastor just said he participated in the Election Assessment ...

Hearing!

And that many of the participants are present there today.

[Zan_of_Texas]

6. Pastor did participate yesterday.

He swept in, was virtually immediately put on the podium, and after he spoke, he left. He was accompanied by a representative of James Baker and another person from Carter/Baker, a woman whose name I didn't catch.

I'd like to know WHO is at Carter/Baker today, because every piece of info I had about Carter/Baker beforehand was that it was PRIVATE, and that not even a press badge would get you in unless you were vetted and approved in advance.

[tommcintyre]

11. He also talked about the strong interest of the blogsphere, etc...

He was trying to be real nice. I don't think he wanted to piss off those 6 or 7 people again that sent him those thousands of emails. ;)

[Amaryllis]

38. I sent him 500 from all my different email accounts. :)

[tommcintyre]

2. Mr. Ken Smukler, President, Info Voter Technologies speaking

Lots of registration problems, didn;t know where polls were, etc.

He's reading his report:
http://www.american.edu/ia/cfer/0630test/smukler.pdf

Ken Smukler is president and co-founder of VoterLink Data Systems, of which InfoVoter Technologies is a subsidiary. Following the 2000 election, Mr. Smukler helped create a national 1-800 number for voters known as 1-866-myvote1, which was supported by news outlets, non-profit groups and universities across the U.S. In 2004, the hotline helped track voter questions and complaints so they could be put into a database, allowing patterns and irregularities to be recorded and analyzed.

[MelissaB]

3. Thanks, tommcintyre!

I'm just getting up and tuning in.

[tommcintyre]

13. Glad to be of service! ;)

LOL! I never went to bed. It's 5:20 am here. I'll sleep when it's over.

[tommcintyre]

4. Dr. Michael Alvarez, Professor, California Institute of Technology speaki

Focusing on registration.
Edit: 3 million votes lost due to voter reg problems
Need to improve access, etc.; provisional ballots and how states are using lists.

He's reading his report:
http://www.american.edu/ia/cfer/0630test/alvarez.pdf

Michael Alvarez is co-director of the Caltech-MIT Voting Technology Project, researching technological solutions to electoral problems, and is the principal investigator of the “Secure Electronic Registration and Voting Experiment” evaluation. Recently, he was selected by Scientific American magazine to be on the 2004 “Scientific American 50” for his outstanding scientific and technological contributions to help improve the U.S. voting system. Dr. Alvarez has taught political science at Caltech since 1992. He received his received his M.A. and Ph.D. from Duke University and got his B.A. in political science from Carleton College.

[tommcintyre]

5. Dr. Paula Hawthorn, Independent Database Consultant speaking

No single attack can bring down the database system; but the cost is complexity. Argh! lost connection for a while -seems she wants a more centralized system and clear identification of voter, like signature - doesn't like national voter ID card (good).

reading statement:
http://www.american.edu/ia/cfer/0630test/hawthorn.pdf

Paula Hawthorn has spent much of her career consulting on database development for various companies. She has held management positions at Hewlett-Packard and Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory. Dr. Hawthorn is currently co-chair of a committee organized by computer scientists who are concerned about proper implementation of HAVA-mandated statewide voter registration databases. She received her Ph.D. in electrical engineering and computer science from the University of California at Berkeley in 1979.

[Amaryllis]

39. What do they consider proper implementation? Proper according to our

standards, or ???

[tommcintyre]

7. Dr. Robert Stein, Dean of Social Sciences, Rice University speaking

Talking why people don't vote.

Only about 60% vote in single election, but 90% vote over four(?) year period.

Efforts to have improve has backfired - older, wealthier, whiter vote more.

Pol parties have more effect on voter turnout.

System must be simplified and streamlined - like MacDonalds, etc. so it is not so complex that it dependent on pol parties to educate, etc.

Election centers work well.

Parties don't want to increase turnout, they want to win elections.


His statement:
http://www.american.edu/ia/cfer/0630test/stein.pdf

Robert Stein is the Dean of Rice University's School of Social Sciences and the Lena Gohlman Fox Professor of Political Science. His current research has been supported by the National Science Foundation and examines the impact of the federal aid system on the electoral trajectories of office holders at both the sub-national and congressional levels. Dr. Stein has served on the editorial review boards of several journals, including American Political Science Review, American Journal of Political Science, Journal of Politics and Social Science Review. He is also involved in political polling for the local media. He received his Ph.D. in political science from the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee.

[Peace Patriot]

17. Re: Dr. Robert Stein - what he's saying here is really insidious.

People came out in droves to vote in 2004--biggest turnout ever--and had their votes changed and stolen, and saw the majority disenfranchised and the wrong man installed as president. The problem was NOT that people didn't vote. The problem was that the election SYSTEM was fraudulent--owned and controlled by Bush partisans--in no small part due to the silence and collusion of fraudulent social and political scientists like this one.

Gr-r-r.

"Like MacDonald's" !!!!!!!!???????? Anyone who uses a metaphor like that to describe voting deserves to be busted down to garbage collector. No, that's an insult to garbarge collectors. He deserves to have his pension stolen by corporate predators, and to see his job, and his pension, and his medical insurance evaporate due to the cost of the Iraq war.

Lord God Almighty, these Bush Cartel voting machine companies have corrupted SO MANY PEOPLE.

[tommcintyre]

8. 30 minutes of Q&A now

I will add anything that sounds pertinent to us.

Photo ID may exclude 70 legitimate votes to prevent 1 fraudulent vote.

Signature ID less complex than photo ID; and effective enough.

One of the panelists mentioned about research done by independent groups and blogosphere, said SOS's could use this info in setting up inter-operability of different state's databases (this didn't seem to make a lot of sense). Oh well, at least they recognized our existence. ;)

People need information so they can vote. Duh!

MacDonald's-style election centers will increase young people voting. (free fries anyone? ;) )

Blaming poll workers for problems now, Sez election centers will decrease number of poll workers will be needed (will we outsource this too? ;) )

electronic voting cause twice as many problems in how to use. The people needed help from the poll workers (and their thinking of reducing the number of poll workers???)

Don't make people vote only in their precincts - the problem is political, NOT technical (YEAH! tell blackwell that!)

Daschele asked what ws needed above all else - they said resources (money) from HAVA to experiment on a small scale.

15 min break, then it's on to voting machines.

[Zan_of_Texas]

10. Watch for it....

We got DREs "because" of hanging chads.

Now, watch us get highly centralized, highly computerized voter IDs and voter registration "because" of "voter fraud." (I believe there were FOUR documented cases of people voting in Ohio who shouldn't have, legally -- voted twice or whatever. Four out of what, a million?)

This is an excuse to further steal not only our votes, but our privacy and civil liberties.

Iris scans, embedded computer chips ... if not inside us, at least on drivers licenses and passports.

Do not give up your civil liberties under the guise of getting to vote.

It is B U L L.

[tommcintyre]

14. Yep. A national ID will lose 70 votes to catch one cheater. n/t

[Peace Patriot]

20. You are so right on, Zan_of_Texas! We have got to bust this whole,

high tech voting establishment. Clean house. Paper ballots/hand counts at the precinct level. Deconstruct this hopelessly corrupt election system and start over.

That's what HAVA's purpose was--or what the Bush Cartel twisted its purpose to be: TO CORRUPT. Everybody. Election officials. Elected representatives. Democrats, Republicans. Political science professors, and advisors. Political operatives. Technical people. With $4+ billion, and lavish lobbying by Diebold, ES&S and co. Dirty them all. Corrupt them all. Pour billions into the pockets of Bushite tech companies, and get Bushites backdoor access to the vote count.

It's all becoming so clear.

Check out this hogfest at the Beverly Hilton, sponsored by Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia--a week of fun and games for OUR state/local election officials!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x380340

We need a BIG BROOM!

[meganmonkey]

9. Thanks Tom, for your updates

I am at work and I have it on in the background, but I can't follow it closely due to phone calls and whatnot (i.e. getting work done ;) )

officemonkey (meganmonkey's 9 to 5 alter-ego) thanks you! :hi:

[tommcintyre]

12. Your welcome! n/t

[tommcintyre]

15. Dr. Dan Wallach, Associate Professor, Rice University speaking

E-voting 101 right now.

Claims on-sight voting more secure than mail-in voting - NOT!

Good! Said DRE's malfunction - the vote os gone!

Says onlyvhve to buy one DRE per precinct for handicapped.

Woah! He is talking about potential for fraud and how buggy the software is. Says must have paper ballot. How many feel this wy in the computer industry.

Talked about finding diebold code on the internet and how insecure is is. How the certification is inadequate.

Talking about how the whole flow must be secure (inc the tabulators).

Voter must see the paper. Many states are implementing paper w/o the voter ever seeing it.

Encryption is possibly buggy, paper will be presented in August.

Talked about how companies won't allow inspection of their software, and this is unacceptable.

Talking about security> Paperless systems are not secure and unacceptable and voting MUST be on paper ballots.

WOW! How'd he sneak in! ;)

Paper here:
http://www.american.edu/ia/cfer/0630test/wallach.pdf

Dan Wallach is an associate professor at Rice University in the department of computer science, and also manages Rice's computer security lab. His research focuses on computer security and other areas of computer systems, such as wireless systems and secure software systems for the Internet. Dr. Wallach's pioneering efforts led to the development and standardization of the "stack inspection" security model, now used by Sun, Microsoft, and many other systems. He received his M.A. and Ph.D. from Princeton University.

[meganmonkey]

16. Good!

Let's hope he doesn't get ignored and ridiculed like the rest of us sensible folks!

[Boredtodeath]

22. Dan Wallach was part of the Johns Hopkins/Rice review

in July 2003. He's been on this issue for YEARS.

He is also the best speaker/presenter of the academics on this issue. Having seen him with a live audience, they eat him up - his presentation style is that of a huggable stuffed toy. Juries will love this guy.

[Zan_of_Texas]

43. Ha. Believe it or not -- Rice actually sent him to media school.

They have an internal media school for Rice folks who are going to be doing a lot of media.

His presentation style was a little more technical and bland before. His media tutor not only got him more relaxed and entertaining, but they hit it off -- now they're married.

[Peace Patriot]

26. Three cheers for Dan Wallach!!! It's often the techies who are blowing...

...the whistle on this. Probably cuz they know better than anybody: garbage in, garbage out.

[Melissa G]

35. i saw him speak in Austin at the hearing the ACLU lawsuit opened

He was awesome!

[tommcintyre]

18. Ms. Beverly Kaufman, Clerk, Harris County, Texas bullshitting

Edit: changed "speaking", to bullshitting (I just wanted to be accurate. ;) )

Says how great electronic voting is. Trying to spin, spin, spin. Paperless voting good, all other (paper) baaaad! blah, blah, blah

What a lot of bullshit!

Read her paper if you want a laugh, I'm sure as hell not gonna type any of it.

She is totally full of shit!

Conclusion: evoting is God's gift to humankind. Over 92% of all the voters LOVE their evoting. (Remind me not to move to Harris Co. TX! ;) )

Her paper here:
http://www.american.edu/ia/cfer/0630test/kaufman.pdf

Beverly Kaufman is the county clerk of Harris County, Texas. She has thirty years of experience in county and local government, and recently introduced electronic voting to Harris County. In May 2005, Ms. Kaufman was elected to serve as chair of the U.S. Election Assistance Commission's Advisory Board, which is comprised of 37 members from national organizations representing elected officials, government agencies, technology groups and voters. She is also active in the leadership of the National Association of County Recorders, Election Officials and Clerks, and serves on the Texas HAVA Advisory Committee.

[Peace Patriot]

24. Kaufman--yeah, we're coming up against this kind of apparent...

...stupidity--but what it really is, is corruption--all over the country.

There are various kinds of corruption:

Lavish lobbying junkets at places like the Beverly Hilton, paid for by taxpayers, and sponsored by Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia. Nice vacations, all expenses paid.

Future job offers with tech companies or their tie in's. (F.i., former Repub CA Sec of State and his chief aide now working for Sequoia--after authorizing purchase of Seq systems while in office).

The corruption of being a high priestess (or priest) of voting: "expert," "professional" lording it over peon voters who don't have a clue any more how their votes are counted.

The corruption of controlling and having fingers in all that money-billions pouring into the states, and into the pockets of Bushite companies, through the hands of country registrars.

Voting used to be simple--conducted mostly by volunteers. Now it's a huge private business with hardly any connection left to "public service."

The result is what you get from so-called "public officials" like Kaufman: A TV COMMERCIAL!

(Robt. Stein, above, had the audacity to use "MacDonald's" as a template for efficient voting centers! MacDonald's!!!)

[Melissa G]

36. Harris County is Dallas... 'nuff said.. n/t

[Zan_of_Texas]

44. Wrong. Harris County is Houston.

[tommcintyre]

19. Q and A:

The shill from Harris Co. says VOTER fraud (multiple registration) much greater problem than election fraud.

DRE's 30 to 50% failure within 10 years. (Not good compared to non-DRE)

[Amaryllis]

40. Election fraud happens in cyber space so mustn't be real.

[tommcintyre]

21. Donald J. Simon, Attorney, Sonosky, Chambers, Sachse, Endreson & Perry

Talking about election mgmt. Says the FEC should be non-partisan, not bi-partisan.


Paper here:
http://www.american.edu/ia/cfer/0630test/simon.pdf

Donald Simon rejoined the firm of Sonosky, Chambers, Sachse, Endreson and Perry LLP in 2000 after serving for five years as Executive Vice President and general counsel of Common Cause. He is an expert on campaign finance and election law issues, and has been involved in numerous major legislative and litigation initiatives on campaign finance and related issues. He received his B.A. from Harvard College, and his J.D. from Harvard Law School.

[TruthIsAll]

23. The odds I'd watch are the same as for a Bush speech..

Or the same as Bush winning the election.
Or Bush telling the truth.

Why torture ourselves?

I would only regret missing this farce if Carter tells the truth, gets up and walks out of the hearing.

Wake me when its over.

[tommcintyre]

34. Yeah, it's a tough job; but somebody's got to do it ;)

Ck out Ornstein post and Q&A below. This does not bode well. The Dems in congress are not interested in election reform either???

Well... if this is true, we must light a fire under their ass, no?

[tommcintyre]

25. Dr. Louis Massicotte, Professor, University of Montreal speaking

Making general recommendations of election administration from an international POV. Generallt, not applicable, not saying much of value - feels like window-dressing to me.

Oh great! Compulsory voting with fines, increased participation by 18% (some people still didn't vote? Hmm... Saddam was able to achieve 99% turnout. ;) )

Paper here:
http://www.american.edu/ia/cfer/0630test/massicotte.pdf

Louis Massicotte is a professor of political science at the University of Montreal who is currently researching electoral legislation across 46 democracies. He has written extensively on electoral systems, including the forthcoming Establishing the Rules of the Game: Election Laws in Democracies (with Andre Blais and Antoine Yoshinaka), and numerous book chapters and articles on the subject. Dr. Massicotte received his Ph.D. from Carleton University.

[Peace Patriot]

27. Massicote: hope he's not a shill for Diebold & co., out to destroy...

...Canada's honest, efficient, paper ballot system! I'm sure the Bush Cartel would like to bust that country's democracy, too.

(No reason to believe this of Massicote, except that he was allowed to testify before this phony, private "federalize elections and take power away from state/local venues where ordinary people still have some say" BAKER/Carter so-called "commission").

[tommcintyre]

28. Dr. Norman Ornstein, Resident Scholar, American Enterprise Institute spkg

On the various legislation.

Sees a lack of interest in enating ANY new legislation BY EITHER PARTY! The attitude is: "been there, done that". They wnt to see how HAVA plays out first.

He says the congress must be compelled to enact new legislation.

Congress wants to wait until late 2006, so that means that NOTHING for even the 2008 election cycle!

All kinds of bills in congress, all kinds of issues. Repubs focus on voter fraud, Dems on accessability.

Read paper:
http://www.american.edu/ia/cfer/0630test/ornstein.pdf

Norman Ornstein is a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research and an election analyst for CBS News. He writes for USA Today as a member of its Board of Contributors and writes a weekly column called "Congress Inside Out" for Roll Call newspaper. Mr. Ornstein has written for the New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, Foreign Affairs, and other major publications, and regularly appears on television programs like The News Hour with Jim Lehrer, Nightline, and Charlie Rose. His latest book is After the People Vote: A Guide to the Electoral College.

The connection is now bad.

[Peace Patriot]

30. "They want to see how Hava plays out first." --Ornstein

HAVA was the means by which the Bush Cartel corrupted our entire election establishment, and stole elections #2 and #3. ('02 and '04).

That's how it "played out."

I'd just as soon Bush's "pod people" in Congress keep their dirty hands off our election system. They WILL NOT PERMIT *ANY* measure that aids the public's ability to vote them out of office (i.e., transparent, verifiable elections), and may do much more harm--and very likely have much more harm in mind, with this phony "commisssion" as the cover (i.e., federalizing elections under Bush Cartel control, and taking the matter out of the hands of local people, where it now constitutionally resides, and where ordinary people still have some influence). (Beware!)

[Peace Patriot]

29. I will take this hiatus to say: THANK YOU, TOMMCINTYRE!!!

I have to go to work now, and will be off-line for many hours. I look forward to reading later reports.

For those who don't know it, TODAY is the last day for public comment on Diebold and ES&S election theft machines in California. Please fax a letter of protest, before 5:00 pm Pacific Time, to:

Voting Systems and Procedures Panel (VSPP)
Office of the California Secretary of State
Attn. Bruce McDannold
FAX [phone] - Tel. [phone],
or mail to: 1500 11th St, 5th Floor, Sacramento, CA 95814 (--too late for snail mail!)

If you are pressed for time, email to: [e-mail]

(--but be aware that they may be playing games regarding this PUBLIC email address being "full"--even though Bruce McDannold emailed me personally that it was good for public comment.)

Go here for background, sample letter, talking points and other info:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x379435

and (reports on Californians' revolt against Diebold & co.)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x378741

[tommcintyre]

32. Check out the last Q&A - it really sucks!

May not recommend paper ballots????

[tommcintyre]

31. Q & A

A large problem with voter confidence. A large percentage don't think the elections are straight. So, the people will not be confident that the right person took office.

Sound familiar?

Paper ballots might not be recommended (Baker says)???

The resistance to paper trail cuts across party lines in congress?

Senator Dodd (Dem) most strongly against paper trail?

Arguments against paper ballots: disabled, cost of retro-fitting, printer jams.

Baker: must look at alternatives to paper ballot? (Bullshit!)

[Peace Patriot]

33. Dodd must go.

(Yeah, I'm still here for a few more minutes.)

Dodd is the no. 1 rotten egg in Congress on Dem Party electronic voting system corruption. Smells to high heaven. Connecticutters? Any hope of removal?

You're right about Baker. Total B.S. (But what should we expect from the architect of Election Theft #1?)

[Melissa G]

37. thanks for posting all this

even though it turns my stomach to read it.
kind of like a lot of the daily thread today... sick but we need to know what's happening...

[tommcintyre]

41. SUMMARY: I am MOST concerned about this!

From post 28 above:

"Sees a lack of interest in enacting ANY new legislation BY EITHER PARTY! The attitude is: "been there, done that". They want to see how HAVA plays out first.

Congress wants to wait until late 2006, so that means that NOTHING for even the 2008 election cycle!"

WTF! Most of the Dems in congress don't even care about election REFORM!?!?

Well... then we are going to have to MAKE THEM CARE!

[LightningFlash]

42. Shit this is not good.....

said SOS's could use this info in setting up inter-operability of different state's databases

In fact my friend was the first to find out about this damned scam, its truly SICK. They are even using his own words! They plan on centralizing the entire system, so FRAUD and IDENTITY FRAUD are mandated laws!!!!!

Just when you thought these assholes couldn't get any sicker!!! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

SUPPORT THROWING THESE BASTARDS OUT OF POWER:

http://www.usalone.com/index.htm Keep screaming their ears off like crazy, here too
http://www.commonblog.com/story/2005/6/9/112353/3287

And you ever want to see something sick go here

http://tinyurl.com/996bh

Can you imagine....One nation under fraud??? :puke: :puke: