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Paperless electronic voting is unconstitutional: a Tennessee lawsuit

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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 06:51 PM
Original message
Paperless electronic voting is unconstitutional: a Tennessee lawsuit
This is a long post, but we election reformers here in the Orange State are moving fast to file a lawsuit to declare paperless electronic voting in direct violation of our state constitution. For that reason, I am attaching the second draft of the lawsuit in hopes that some of you (lawyers and otherwise) can give us your feedback quickly.

This lawsuit will be filed shortly in Memphis/Shelby County, Tennessee. Memphis is our largest city and it now uses Danaher Shouptronics push-button machines and is leaning toward Diebold for no logical reason, but likely plenty of $$ ones. This lawsuit declares that paperless electronic voting systems violate our state constitution on several grounds. The attorney has been in contact with Land Shark to discuss the Washington state case, but he has decided to argue the case strictly on state constitutional grounds here in the Orange State.

Tonight, I will begin working to encourage attorneys from around the state (Nashville, Knoxville, Chattanooga, etc.) to file similar lawsuits. Our Memphis attorney would appreciate any comments that any of you might have on this draft, which is why I have attached the whole cannoli. We are moving quickly so if you have any feedback, please post it on this thread or PM me and I will get it to the attorney ASAP. Thanks for any advice and suggestions you might have.

Lots of good things come out of Memphis: Elvis, the blues, barbeque, "Hustle and Flow".
And maybe now a judicial remedy from the Orange State to combat electronically stolen elections.
I look forward to your comments.
----------------

IN THE CHANCERY COURT OF SHELBY COUNTY, TENNESSEE
30TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT

(One good-guy attorney)

VS. NO.____________________

SHELBY COUNTY ELECTION COMMISSION

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COMPLAINT

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<> The Plaintiff, XXXXX, an attorney licensed to practice law in the state of Tennessee and a resident of Shelby County, Tennessee, brings this cause of action against the Defendant, the Shelby County Election Commission, and would show the court the following:

PARTIES AND JURISDICTION

1. The Plaintiff is an attorney licensed to practice in the state of Tennessee, who lives and has an office in Shelby County and who is a registered voter.

2. The Defendant, the Shelby County Election Commission, may be served with process by serving XXX, Chairman, at 157 Poplar Avenue, Memphis, Tennessee.

3. The Plaintiff has standing to bring this Declaratory Judgment action pursuant to TCA 29-14-103.

4. This court has jurisdiction to hear this Declaratory Judgment action pursuant to TCA 29-14-102.

BACKGROUND

5. Shelby County Tennessee now requires its citizens to vote on electronic voting machines that produce no paper ballot or no paper verification of the vote cast.

6. The Plaintiff has been required, as have most, if not all of Shelby County residents, to vote on these paperless machines for the last several elections.

7. The Plaintiff, and the other citizens of Shelby County have no means of verifying that their votes are actually being properly recorded when their votes are cast on paperless mechanical or electronic voting machines.

8. The Plaintiff, as well as other citizens of Shelby County, knows that when the ballot is paperless, poll workers have no means to review a questionable vote to determine the intent of the voter.

9. The Plaintiff, as well as the other citizens of this county, knows that with paperless mechanical or electronic voting, the poll workers or interested citizens have no means to statistically estimate whether the votes are being properly recorded and tabulated.

10. The Plaintiff, as well as other citizens of this county, knows that with paperless mechanical or electronic voting there is only one system of tabulation and that no secondary system of tabulation exists to verify or check the one and only system of tabulation.

11. The Plaintiff, as well as other citizens of this county, knows that with paperless mechanical or electronic voting, since no secondary system of cross-tabulation exists, there is no verifiable means of performing a legitimate recount of any election that might be questionable, close, or suspicious.

12. Upon information and belief, the Plaintiff avers that these electronic voting systems may also disenfranchise voters in the event that voter turnout is far greater than expected; since each voter must wait his turn to use the machine, the possibility of too few machines, causing discouraging delays, is quite real.

13. Upon information and belief, the Plaintiff avers that electronic voting systems may disenfranchise voters when there are power outages or other malfunctions of the paperless machines during the election process.

14. Upon information and belief, the Plaintiff would aver that even in a state election contest, a paperless voting machine’s cumulative tabulations are not a sufficient evidentiary replacement for paper ballots, making even meaningful judicial review of state election contests unlikely.

15. Upon information and belief, the Plaintiff also avers that due to the time constraints imposed by federal law, in the most important election of all, the election for President of the United States, the Presidential electors from Shelby County and Tennessee must cast their ballots for President within a few short weeks following the national election; however, the Plaintiff would further aver that no meaningful process exists in Shelby County to ensure an accurate, speedy recount of the votes in a Presidential election, (much less any meaningful process for a speedy election contest) and thus there exists no way to adequately ensure that Shelby County and Tennessee send the proper electors to Washington, D.C., to vote for the President of the United States.

16. At present, these systems are truly faith-based and require the citizens of this county to have unwarranted faith in the integrity of the system.

17. Upon information and belief, the Plaintiff avers that one or more private corporations manufacture the electronic voting systems used by the Shelby County Election Commission and that the software used in these electronic systems remains the proprietary trade secret of the manufacturer.

18. Upon information and belief, the Plaintiff avers that the Shelby County Election Commission does not independently possess the means or the ability to produce its own software for these machines and must rely upon the training, skill and integrity of private corporations or citizens to determine whether the software running these machines can properly record and count the votes cast on these machines.

19. Upon information and belief, the Plaintiff avers that in order to operate the electronic voting machines which record and count the votes of the citizens of Shelby County, the Shelby County Election Commission must rely upon the technical expertise of individuals and corporations who are not elected, who are not appointed, who are not sworn to uphold the Constitutions of the United States or the state of Tennessee; and perhaps without realizing it, the Shelby County Election Commission may even be relying upon persons or corporations who may not, or could not, have passed criminal background checks, or may be relying upon persons who could even be citizens of a foreign country, or, in the worst possible case, relying on enemies of the state.

20. Upon information and belief, the Plaintiff also avers that the central tabulators, which compile the votes from each precinct, are also privately owned and also have proprietary software that the manufacturers claim to be a trade secret, and are also subject to most of the same problems as the electronic voting machines themselves.

21. The Plaintiff brings this cause of action to have this court declare that the voting methodology and process currently in use in Shelby County by the Shelby County Election Commission, along with the statutes that permit this voting methodology and process, are in violation of the Tennessee Constitution and are therefore respectively illegal and unconstitutional.

22. The pertinent parts of the Tennessee Constitution and the Tennessee Election Code are attached to this Complaint as Exhibit “A” and incorporated herein by reference.

THE TENNESSEE CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENTS

23. Article I, Section 5 of the Tennessee Constitution states in relevant part: “The elections shall be free and equal…”

24. However, the General Assembly, when it enacted the Tennessee Election Code, made two systems of voting possible: one with a paper ballot, and one without.

25. Plaintiff avers that the two systems are vastly unequal in the rights the systems grant to the voters and candidates of this state; moreover, Plaintiff avers that the voters in Shelby County, who must vote on paperless systems have vastly inferior voting rights when compared with those other citizens of other counties whose election officials have opted to use paper ballots.

26. Article IV, Section 1 of the Tennessee Constitution states in relevant part: “The General Assembly shall have the power to enact laws … to secure … the purity of the ballot box.”

27. However, the General Assembly, when it enacted the Tennessee Election Code made a curious change in tracking the language of the Constitution when it made the following legislative enactment in TCA 2-1-102:

“The purpose of this title is to regulate the conduct of all elections by the people so that: (1) The freedom and purity of the ballot are secured;” …

When referring to the purity of the ballot box, the General Assembly omitted the word “box.”

28. Plaintiff avers it was perhaps the omission of the word “box” that has led the General Assembly in the direction of paperless voting; without a box to put the ballot in, paper is no longer required.

29. Plaintiff avers that the image invoked by a ballot box requires that a tangible ballot must be placed into it; without a box, the ballot need not be tangible.

30. Plaintiff further avers that it is this tangible quality that makes a ballot verifiable to the voter; the voter can observe the name of the candidate he has selected and/or observe his vote for or against any particular referendum.

31. It is also the tangible quality of the paper ballot that allows humans to statistically estimate the accuracy of any tabulation, whether the tabulation is human, mechanical or electronic.

32. It is also the tangible quality of the paper ballot that allows humans to ascertain the will of the voter, should a recount or review be deemed necessary.

33. Take away the tangible paper ballot, and its inherent self-verification, and the “purity of the ballot box” is no longer pure and the election process no longer possesses the security of this inherent verification process.

34. The road to paperless voting began innocently enough with mechanical voting machines which recorded votes by pulling a lever after selections were made and which tallied the votes as they occurred; these machines and how they worked were far beyond the comprehension of the average voter and poll worker.

35. But if the mechanical voting machine was beyond the comprehension of the average voter, the electronic voting machines are far beyond the comprehension of the average voter and poll worker.

36. With electronic voting machines we are now at the point to where the average voter and poll worker has turned the entire election process over to highly technical persons and must have blind faith that these persons are of the utmost honesty and integrity, causing a crisis of confidence in the election process.

CLAIMS OF UNCONSTITUTIONALITY

FIRST CLAIM: A PAPERLESS BALLOT PRODUCED IN THE INTERNAL BELLY OF A VOTING MACHINE IS NOT EQUAL TO A PAPER BALLOT AND ITS BALLOT BOX

37. Paragraphs 30-36 make it abundantly clear that the two different systems the General Assembly created are not equal systems and that the rights of the voters who vote on paperless systems are vastly inferior to the rights of the voters who are permitted to vote on paper systems.

38. Ensuing paragraphs will make the inequality of these systems even more apparent.

SECOND CLAIM: A PAPERLESS BALLOT FAILS TO SECURE THE PURITY OF A TANGIBLE PAPER BALLOT AND ITS BOX BY FAILING TO PERMIT VOTER VERIFICATION OF HIS BALLOT

39. A voter can examine a tangible paper ballot before it is put in the ballot box to be certain his intentions have been properly recorded, but with a paperless system, a voter can unknowingly make a mistake he may not be able to catch and retract.

40. Moreover, with a paperless system, there is no way for a voter to know whether the internal belly of the equipment has properly recorded his vote.

THIRD CLAIM: A PAPERLESS BALLOT FAILS TO SECURE THE PURITY OF A TANGIBLE PAPER BALLOT AND ITS BOX BY FAILING TO PERMIT A POLL WORKER THE ABILITY TO DISCERN THE INTENT OF THE VOTER IN THE EVENT OF A QUESTIONABLE BALLOT

41. With a paper ballot, a poll worker can examine a questionable ballot to see if the intent of the voter can be discerned; this cannot be done with a paperless system.

FOURTH CLAIM: A PAPERLESS BALLOT FAILS TO SECURE THE PURITY OF A TANGIBLE PAPER BALLOT AND ITS BOX BY FAILING TO ENABLE POLL WORKERS OR CONCERNED CITIZENS A MEANS TO ESTIMATE WHETHER A TABULATION IS CORRECT

42. Statistical analysis of a sufficient number (perhaps as little as five percent) of randomly chosen ballots is a highly accurate means of quickly verifying the validity of final tabulations within certain parameters.

43. Paperless systems do not provide a means of such statistical analysis; paper systems do.

FIFTH CLAIM: A PAPERLESS BALLOT FAILS TO SECURE THE PURITY OF A TANGIBLE PAPER BALLOT AND ITS BOX BY FAILING TO PERMIT A POLL WORKER WITH A SECONDARY RECOUNT CAPABILITY

43. The paperless ballot cannot produce a meaningful recount.

44. The paperless ballots produced by the mechanical parts of a mechanical voting system or by the software running an electronic voting system cannot recount the paperless ballot by any secondary means so there is no ability to crosscheck for the accuracy of the initial tabulation; recounts are just a virtual copy of the original tabulation.

45. In stark contrast, a tangible paper ballot can always be counted by different scanning system or by hand and by different individuals.

SIXTH CLAIM: A PAPERLESS BALLOT FAILS TO SECURE THE PURITY OF A TANGIBLE PAPER BALLOT AND ITS BOX BY FAILING TO PROVIDE A CANDIDATE OR REFERENDUM ADVOCATE WITH A MEANS OF MEANINGFUL JUDICIAL REVIEW

46. The usage of these modern voting systems has been enacted by the General Assembly and are set forth primarily in TCA 2-5-206, 2-8-104, 2-8-110, 2-8-113, 2-9-101, 2-9-110, and 2-17-110.

47. Perhaps the statute most illustrative of the loss of the purity of the ballot box caused by paperless voting is TCA 2-17-110, which allows for a voting machine to be used as evidence in the event of an election contest.

48. No longer is the evidence of the will of the voter on a paper ballot; out of necessity it is stored in the belly of a machine that now must become evidence of the voter’s intent.

49. Since a paperless voting machine cannot produce a single ballot to evidence the intent of a single voter, singular examination of each ballot is impossible.

50. Paper ballots allow for the physical examination, in court, of any singular ballot that may be questionable; in fact, courts can instruct citizens to examine each and every ballot and to audit them.

51. But TCA 2-17-110 states the machines themselves can be brought to court and examined by the parties as evidence and that the total votes shown on the machines shall be conclusive unless the court determines otherwise.

52. But what if there are 1000 machines that need examination?

53. Must the parties have them all brought to court or must they be forced to travel to wherever the machines are located to examine them?

54. Moreover, checking out a mechanical machine to ensure proper mechanical operation is one thing, checking out an electronic system is quite another.

55. This is especially true if all electronic voting machines are operated by proprietary software and the manufacturer insists on refusing to subject the software to analysis or insists on a protracted legal battle to determine its rights to keep its software a trade secret.

56. What if multiple software systems are required and all must be checked?

57. It is easy to see how any election contest which has to resolve the highly complicated legal issues and evidence brought about by electronic paperless voting could not be concluded in any expedient manner.

58. Moreover, there is no adequate remedy for a situation where the Shelby County Election Commission fails to anticipate high voter turnout and there are not enough machines, or where there are electrical outages during the voting process, or where there are machines that malfunction during the voting process or where there is no real way to know whether failures such as these would have made a difference in the outcome of the election.

SEVENTH CLAIM: A PAPERLESS BALLOT FAILS TO SECURE THE PURITY OF A TANGIBLE PAPER BALLOT AND ITS BOX IN PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS BECAUSE THERE IS LIKELY NO JUDICAL REVIEW POSSIBLE THERE AT ALL

59. In an election for President of the United States, the most important election of all, the ability to verify election results in a timely manner is of extraordinary importance.

60. Within mere weeks of the national election, Shelby County, and Tennessee, and all other counties and states in the United States, must by federal law have their Presidential Electors chosen to send to Washington, D.C. to elect the President.

61. While electronic paperless voting systems may be exceedingly fast at calculating initial results, any attempts to have timely judicial review of voting systems this complex, is “virtually” impossible.

62. The statutes provide for no expedited means of judicial review for verifying Presidential elections; without it, no judicial review is even possible before Presidential Electors must be chosen.

63. The winning party can simply run out the “federal clock” before any real review takes place; in fact, answers to complaints need not be expedited, nor does pre-trial discovery need to be expedited, and the case under the present law could hardly be begun before electors had to report to Washington, D.C.

64. Add to this process, the legal challenges that paperless voting brings, and there is no security at all in the purity of the ballot box in Presidential elections.

EIGHTH CLAIM: A PAPERLESS BALLOT OF ELECTRONIC VOTING SYSTEMS FAILS TO SECURE THE PURITY OF A TANGIBLE PAPER BALLOT AND ITS BOX BECAUSE THE VIRTUAL BALLOT BOX PRIVATIZES ELECTIONS THAT WERE EXCLUIVELY MEANT TO BE GOVERNMENTAL FUNCTIONS

65. In paragraphs 17-20 the Plaintiff has averred that electronic voting systems are so technically complex as to require an inordinate amount of technical support to run them.

66. In the same paragraphs he has averred that this technical help must come from outside the Shelby County Election Commission itself and that it must contract with the manufacturers of these voting systems to run them.

67. This means that, perhaps without realizing it, the Shelby County Election Commission, which is now so very dependent on the private sector, has abdicated the responsibility of the election process to the private sector.

68. This abdication of governmental responsibility is even more apparent, (assuming the Plaintiff’s information and belief is true) if the contracts between these private entities and the Shelby County Election Commission have provisions that ensure that the software, which runs both the voting machines and the central tabulators, remains proprietary and a trade secret of the manufacturer.

69. The purity of the ballot box cannot be secure when the process is privatized.

PRAYER

Wherefore, premises considered, the Plaintiff prays that the Defendant, the Shelby County Election Commission, be cited to appear and this Court to review the process of elections in Shelby County Tennessee.

The Plaintiff, would request that this Court, after thorough review, make a determination that the Shelby County Election Commission has chosen to use an unconstitutional election system and to declare that such system is illegal and must be changed.

The Plaintiff would also request this Court to make a declaration that those provisions of the Tennessee Election Code, which allow for the usage of a paperless ballot, are unconstitutional under the Tennessee Constitution.

The Plaintiff would further ask this Court to require that the Shelby County Election Commission henceforth use a system of voter verified, tangible, paper ballots that are capable of being placed by the voters into an appropriate ballot box for later tabulation.

The Plaintiff would ask this Court to make a declaration that the election process is a governmental function and that all essential processes of the election process remain in governmental control and not be subject to private usurpation.

The Plaintiff would further ask this Court to require that any system of future vote tabulation be a system that does not use technology that usurps the governmental election process.

Specifically, the Plaintiff would further ask this Court to require the Shelby County Election Commission not to enter into any contracts with the private sector that preserve the usage of proprietary technology and for which trade secrets are claimed.

The Plaintiff prays for other relief, general and special, at law or in equity, to which he may show himself justly entitled.

Respectfully submitted,

(One brave, smart, barbeque-eating, blues-swaying, patriotic Memphis attorney)
--------

OK, folks, any comments, suggestions, words of encouragement, etc -- let 'er rip (by posting or PMing me).
I will get your comments to the attorney post-haste. Peace out.
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is prebably the most important action to come along
in the history of this country.
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks, Fly!
Bookmarking (and nominating and kicking) :)
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. heres just one problem--
54. Moreover, checking out a mechanical machine to ensure proper mechanical operation is one thing, checking out an electronic system is quite another.


55. This is especially true if all electronic voting machines are operated by proprietary software and the manufacturer insists on refusing to subject the software to analysis or insists on a protracted legal battle to determine its rights to keep its software a trade secret.

One might open the back of a lever voting machine to look at the vote counting mechanism, that cant be done with a DRE. The digital ballot images are stored in proprietary software, so as to be unavailable for audit.

Consider proving irrepairable harm-- do a canvass report to document undervote rates in your state. If DREs have higher indervote rates than lever or opscans, its a slam dunk-- you have just proved prior harm----

Try this--
54. Moreover, Inspecting the voting counting mechanism of a lever voting machine is one thing, performing a similar inspection of a DRE is illegal.

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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Thanks for the feedback. We're requesting undervote info ...
... by machine type now for all Tennessee counties for both the 2000 and 2004 elections. Thanks for the very specific feedback, FR -- any and all comments are welcome.

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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
28. you might consider getting the full reports and compiling the data
yourselves. If a report (scientific) went under peer review it would be expected that the report utilized the raw data--otherwise you are relying on someone elses work-- which it has to be assumed is correct-
since you may not be sure as to what "DEFINITION" of undervote they are using. Starting with the raw data, means this is your starting point--
1)How many many voters signed the "BOOK".
2)How many votes for each race-- President--House- County Sheriff.

Yes its more work-- but may have more scientific and legal weight----
IMHO.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. That is what we are doing. Our state Coordinator of Elections doesn't ...
... do any real work or analysis when it comes to questioning the validity and reliability of our voting systems. Fortunately, we have already collected quite a bit of county-specific 2004 election information that we can supplement with this new information. (We'll be asking the same undervote-related questions for 2000 also.)
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Excellent---I'm starting the same project in NJ--
& I want the raw data-- only way to go--
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. We've got three votes for "Greatest" page but (as of today) we need 2 more
Please help get the word out by kicking, nominating and spreading the word. Thanks, ya'll.
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lavenderdiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. Nominated!
I wonder if you should post this in each state's forum, so any attorneys that may see it, could file it in their state?
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bmcatt Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Nominated and should we activist corps this?
This seems like the sort of thing that could turn into suits in all 50 states. If willing attorneys could be found in every state, it could potentially put a stake through the heart of paperless voting.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. That's a great idea. What do we need to do to make it happen?
Also, are there progressive organizations that might have lots of attorneys as members that we can share this lawsuit concept with?

We will contact anyone and everyone -- just let us know who and where.

Thanks.
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lavenderdiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. the only one I know of, that is in every state is the ACLU...
I don't know if that is the sort of organization you are thinking of, and there may be others, of which I am unaware. I am thinking you could PM OldLeftieLawyer, who is in California, and who, I'm sure would know more about which way to go with this. She would be aware of the different groups who could help you out. But I DO think that someone in each and every state should be filing this same type of lawsuit!
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
7. Kicked and nominated. Excellent news!
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sunnystarr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. This is so exciting! Nominated with gratitude. (nt)
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. nominated
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. Nominated amy body else want to do this? Let's save Democracy
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. finally,,,one small step for man, one giant leap for voting rights
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Wheezy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
13. nominated
and thank you.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
16. I would add a claim that trade secrets have been waived by consciously
injecting them into the most public forum of all; i.e. a declaratory judgment that there are no trade secrets in elections: they don't exist. If they want to have TS, go back to the private sector.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Thanks Land Shark -- I'll pass it on to DM
Your own Washington state suit has been a most useful model for us.
Thanks for your leadership.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
17. Thanks for comments: keep 'em coming: maybe we're on to sum'thin'
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CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
19. Hot Damn! This is great! Kicked and nominated!
:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
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yowzayowzayowza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
20. Excellent!!!
I love repeated usage of the term "belly of the machine" ... really evokes the visceral difference between a tangible paper ballot and vaporware.

GOOD LUCK!!!
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. Belly of the machines--
I'm not comfortable with such language in a legal document.
I think the whole thing needs to be cleaned up--there far too few tecnical terms- which can lead to ambiguity in court.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. That term has been removed.
If you have more specific suggestions on the language in the draft, please send them on. This is a work in progress and any and all suggestions will be considered. If you'd prefer to PM me with your comments, that's fine too.

I started a parallel thread on GD-Politics, so we are getting editorial comments from that forum also. We also have others reviewing the language here in Tennessee and in four other states. So, again, any and all comments and suggestions will be most appreciated. Thanks.
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
21. Thank you Tennessee n/t
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 02:45 AM
Response to Original message
22. Glad to see this! Here's one for you and Jaws:
You might want to say how relatively easy it would be to corrupt votes on anything electronic or computerized compared to purely mechanical means. With lever machines, or paper ballots, you have to physically tamper with every one you wish to corrupt. With anything computerized, it's much easier to replicate the tampering from a server, network, etc.

It could be argued that the power to aggregate votes is reserved in the Constitution for the aggregate of all voters. Yet with the advent of these machines, it's become possible for only a few to do it.

In other words, I'm thinking that the mere possibility of doing this is unconstitutional.

Does this make any sense?
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. That makes sense -- I will pass it on. Thanks BB -- now you see ...
... why I'm so damned bad at answering emails. We are swamped here, but moving in the right direction (I hope, I hope).
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. No problem. Let me know what the lawyer says.
Edited on Fri Aug-19-05 01:04 PM by Bill Bored
I'm not sure if I have a point or not, but it seems to me that since the point of elections is to ascertain the will of the voters, anything that can be used to misrepresent that en masse is not a good idea, even if it's not supposed to be used for this purpose.

On edit: Never mind, you posted an update already! I guess there's something to be said for early risers.
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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
34. Good point.
It lets them tamper with very little effort and almost no chance of getting caught.
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Dynasty_At_Passes Donating Member (254 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 03:47 AM
Response to Original message
23. Show them this and make an example of Landshark's lawsuit....
Landshark is cleaning up Washington, why not in respect of the evidence ensure it happens everywhere?

http://www.answers.com/topic/2004-u-s-presidential-election-controversy-voting-machines

How much time is left now? Isn't it possible for officials on both sides to steal elections? DLC types running the show, GOP thieves, what else?
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
25. A message of thanks from the Memphis attorney
I just received this message from the Tennessee attorney who will be filing this lawsuit, and I thought you folks might enjoy it. (I will re-post this message on the "GD-Politics" forum, where I cross-posted this thread.)

Just today, we have heard from activists in Missouri, Ohio, Georgia and Virginia who are now considering similar lawsuits. Please keep those comments coming and I will pass them on to our friend on Beale Street in Memphis (the home of the blues):
---------
FBN,

I have reviewed the DUers' comments and I am quite humbled. And I am also quite impressed that so many would take the time to read the entire thing.

Let FogerRox, Land Shark and Bill Bored know I will incorporate their ideas. Also, I need to thank you, TIA and Land Shark for the inspiration.

Also let PeacePatriot, Phoebe Looseinhouse and Yousayousayousa know I sincerely appreciate their comments.

Also let Ready2Snap know I appreciate the analogy to Brown vs. Board of Education. I will find a way to use or sneak it into in legal arguments.

I think I can also use the arguments in Bush vs. Gore. Any other landmark cases of inequality or equal protection that people can think of will be appreciated.
---------

So folks, keep those comments coming. We have already notified several Tennessee state legislators that this lawsuit is pending. Time to get the Orange State mobilized to stop the cyborg voting machine companies dead in their tracks. Hell yeah!!


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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Additionally
Edited on Fri Aug-19-05 01:20 PM by FogerRox
A DRE with a front end-- that provides results
And a back end that provides results is like catching an accountant with 2 sets of books-- you might be suspicious-- LOL

If you need info on the Architecture of DRE email me thru my sig line.
Also consider emailing Rebeca Mercuri- her site is "notable software"
I've worked with her here in NJ and she is VERY GOOD.

on edit--
These DREs are built to facilitate fruaud- the actual design is to make this easy- as if fraud was a design element on paper-- before prototypes were ever assembled.
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. It's even worse than that.
Edited on Fri Aug-19-05 01:23 PM by Bill Bored
The DRE provides an e-ballot which represents a voter's intent.

But in the database, even the local DRE database (never mind the central tabulators), there are no ballots. There is only a mapping of the voter's intent into a spreadsheet or similar tallying program.

If, as in the case of Diebold, there is no linkage between the text on the ballot and the database labels, the tally in the database may have nothing to do with the ballots cast. You might be able to argue that the machine doesn't even count ballots, but you'd have to have some limited access to the ballot definition process as we do with Diebold's GEMS which is freely available on the Internet thanks to the company's own incompetence.

While it may be possible to design a system that actually links ballot text to the database labels, Diebold hasn't done so, and I'd suspect that other e-voting companies have not done so either. Just look at the difference in the presentation of the ballot compared to a poll tape (results report). They are obviously not the same. (If they did look the same, it would not necessarily prove the count was accurate because you wouldn't know if they were linked, but since they're NOT the same, this is even more obvious.) This is the first essential step in the process of vote count corruption and it should never have been allowed to be implemented.

Since you read a lot of standards documents, have you seen anything about this Roj?
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. I think UR Absolutly right-
The End of voting print out cannot be linked to the voters intent represented by the Digital ballot images in the DRE.

If our votes are to be counted accuratly then lets count the Digital ballot Images-- but we cant-- they are a TS protected by corporate law--

In fact HAVA states that the end of voting printout is to be the official record --- ERF ! !
\
Also I saw this post IIRC on the no electric ballots yahoo group--
it seems to getting around---
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
36. We are now on the third draft since first posting this lawsuit. Thanks!!
The comments we are getting both on and off this thread and its companion thread on GD-P have been very helpful. Keep 'em coming.
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Comment: I feel like I'm in a the middle of a Grisham novel! nt
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
38. See this one Bernie! It might apply.
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
39. ...
:kick:
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