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Decertify a DRE today. Episode two.

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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 08:39 PM
Original message
Decertify a DRE today. Episode two.
Decertify a DRE today.
Episode two.


In Episode one, when we last heard from our Hero...... Joe Democarcy...... he was in a jam. But Joe aint no quitter. Joe looked around for anything to use as a weapon-- federal & state laws anythig to use as a tool, a weapon. And Joe thought if he could get rid of most touchscreen voting machines then public officals would have to at least consider the options--- you know maybe things like..... Paper ballots--- that get scanned by opscans.

So What is this NASED? The National Association of State Election Directors, they have a NASED web site. SO lets go there and look at what Joe found.

All right enuf of the BS---

Here is episode one if you missed it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x390084


In episode 2 we will look at the NASED list of qualifying systems. I am going to deal with just the big 3 at this point, Diebold, ES&S & Sequoia.
Here is the link to the current pdf:
http://www.nased.org/ITA%20Information/NASEDQualifiedVotingSystems12.03to7.05.pdf
Here is the link to an older list:
http://www.nased.org/ITA%20Information/NASEDApprovedSystems1.03.pdf

Lets look at the new NASED list. Starting with the left hand side we see the company name, in the second column we see voting system/system component. On page 3 we find some Diebold entrys starting with GEMS 1-18-18. We know that GEMS is the Diebold tabulation software, and it is entered in the second column which is marked voting system/system component. And GEMS is also entered into the 3rd column marked Software. There are multiple entries which look like repeated attempts to get GEMS certified to the 2002 standards, since the earlier entries are all certified to the 1990 standards. It appears that Diebold tried 10 times to upgrade GEMS. It also appears they failed 10 times from July 8th, 2003 to May 16th, 2005. Though on May 16th, 2005 Diebold received a 2002 certification for Firmware version 4.6.2.

This is the Diebold DRE, apparently an older unit, not a modern touchscreen: http://www.diebold.com/dieboldes/default.htm . This is the newer touchscreen, most likely using galvanic response for selecting ballot positions: http://www.diebold.com/dieboldes/accuvote_tsx.htm . Neither unit has received the coveted 2002 certification.

Now on page 5 we look at the ES&S entries. ES&S has 2 DREs, (Maybe 3, the V-2000 may still be around) the iVotronic: http://www.essvote.com/HTML/products/ivotronic.html , and the LS model, which is a full face iVotronic: http://www.essvote.com/HTML/products/ivotronicLS.html . In the 2nd column, voting system/system component, we see the entry for Unity 2.4.2, which would indicate the testing was done on this Unity 2.4.2, not a DRE. Otherwise the name of the DRE would be stated. Also note that Unity 2.4.2 is certified to the 1990 standards. It appears that from Febuary 19th 2004 to January 9th, 2005, ES&S tried 5 times to get the upgrades certified to 2002 standards, in which they succeeded with Unity version 2.5.

Moving to page 8 we find the Sequoia entries. First is the Advantage DRE certified to the 1990 standards in 1997. This is strange because the Advantage was introduced in 1986, and certified for use in NJ in 1987. Next is the Sequoia WinEDS version 2.6. This is Sequoias tabulation software, which was certified to the 1990 standards in August 2002.
Next we see the EMS/AERO version 3.54 certified to 1990 standards in October of 2002, which I’m guessing is the software for the Optical scan systems, since it is listed only in entries of optical Scan equipment. Continuing, we see what appears to be multiple attempts at upgrades. Some of which were to the 2002 standards. But, the Sequoia Edge & Advantage DREs are not listed as 2002 certified.

I believe what we have seen is repeated attempts to upgrade Software & Firmware to the 2002 standards by the big 3. While vendors such as Accupoll: http://www.accupoll.com/ & Liberty: http://www.libertyelectionsystems.com/LibertyVote.htm, with newer products, seem to breeze thru the 2002 certification process. Apparently these older DREs cannot cut the mustard. And without 2002 certification there is no way these DREs can be considered remotely HAVA Compliant. And thusly none of the Diebold, ES&S or Sequoia DREs can be used in the next federal election in 2006 as per section 301 of HAVA.

And no Jurisdiction can receive HAVA moneys for the purchase of these DREs.


States cant just grandfather these DREs, so they can be used in 2006. That would still leave open the very real possibility of massive court challemges by sore losers and such, all over the country. The potential for a massive crisis is in the making. SInce Federal law put us there, it is the feds -- sort to speak -- that have to fix it.

The Election Assistamce issued its EAC Advisory on Section 301 of HAVA, and then all the experts @ the EAC went on vacation. There are rumbling acroos the country -- after a summer conferences of county and state election officials, we may be able to enterain the very real possibilty of seeing the Jan 2006 DEAD LINE in HAVA, being postponed until 2007.

Mant county election officials have spoken to members of congress about HAVA. When Congress gets back in September --- this will be our chance to pressure them to push HAVA back at least one year. ANd a chance to spend another year trying to dismantle HAVA, piece by peice.

If you dont see your voting machine on this list with 2002 certification

http://www.nased.org/ITA%20Information/NASEDQualifiedVotingSystems12.03to7.05.pdf

Then it cant be used in 2006. Unless we do nothing.

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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Silly me....
From reading some of these other threads, I thought you could de-certify DREs just by citing the exit polls!

Thanks for the update Roger dude!

I hope they don't pull some certifications out of there butts at the last minute. They have until 11:59 PM on Dec 31, 2005 according to HAVA Section 301. I think we all need to stay tuned and have our HAVA lawyers waiting in the wings in states that actually run elections on this junk!

Keep up the good work!
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. RECOMMENDed for all to read.
"States can't jusg grandfather these DREs," I hope that means what I think it means. ???

Gotta study this one and get back to my homework, I didn't forget, just got involved in the recent events around here. What a joint!

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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Thanks guys.........yeah Auto-- no grandfathering-- federal law says no
plus there would be a mess-- challenges--- how many losers would turn around and say--

Well.... those voting machines shouldn't have been used anyway........ so I'm suing---

ignoring federal law-- by all 50 states-- ain't going to happen--- I think there is a crisis brewing and the only way to stop the mess, is to delay HAVA -- one year. I know most public officials around my area have made phone calls and networked-- they all see the need to delay at least one year--- NASS & NASco talked about it-- thats one big handful of county officials, singing the same song.

Maybe should be writing letters to Congress about the impending Disaster in HAVA..

Or maybe let it happen -- them sue the shit outta everyone-- sarcasms
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. thanks Rog
Why aren't the computer scientists speaking up?

Did something change at the EAC hearing this week, to allow for grandfathering of the non-compliant equipment?

I have asked some of the scientific crowd to speak out on this specific issue.

We should be hearing more about this loud and clearly from folks like Verified Voting, I hope.

Meanwhile, Diebold is trying to pander it's wares, even convincing some Mississippi counties that they won't be HAVA compliant without Diebold!

Agh.
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. the only granfathering that can occur-- HAVA is a federal law--
is for an ammendment to HAVA changing the deadline to 2007
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. Roj, YOU are AMAZING!!! You are My Hero!! Nominated!!!
Thank you for this Great Work!:loveya::yourock:
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
7. Recommended! Let's start a national movement! nt
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
8. kicked and recommened
"Only 2 touchscreens are HAVA compliant. all others cannot be used in 2006"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2039384
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
9. kick
thanks, rox!
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truckin Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
10. Why is the AutoMARK system certified to 1990 standards?
Roj,
I may not be reading the NASED list correctly but why is the AutoMARK system certified to 1990 standards when it was just certified in June 2005?
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Good one Truckin-- I read that too
I'm not exactly sure what the deal is w/Automark-- it is a unique system, and I'm not sure how testing by an ITA would procced, since the testing procedures were written for voting machines & Vote counting tabulators-- and the Automark is neither---
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truckin Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. AutoMARK is part of an Optical Scan system provided by ES&S
One of the activists in CT said that he believed that the 1990 NASED certification for the AutoMARK system is due the the ES&S Optical Scanner that it is linked to. So if the ES&S scanner is not up to date it would decertify the whole system including the AutoMARK ballot marker for the disabled. In CT we were hoping to use the AutoMARK as an alternative to DREs to give access to the disabled but this would seem to rule it out. However, maybe one way around this would be to use the AutoMARK ballot marker without a scanner for the disabled and manually count those votes. I can't believe that it would be too many votes to count on a per precinct basis.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-05 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. question about list of voting machines
this list is way over due for an update isn't it?

Date is July 5?

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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. NASED list?
in the past-- twice /year-

ANd folks have bneen on vacation--- Brian Hancock @ the EAC doesnt like to answer any real questions at leat not untiull the lawyers get back in Sept.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
11. The vendors are in bed with EVERYONE who has anything to do with
elections in this country! One giant corporate, for-profit orgy.
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diva77 Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-05 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. so has anyone brought an anti-trust suit against any of them?
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
12. Kicked and recommended! Go, Foger! n/t
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-05 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
14. Question
"Accupol and Liberty- these are the only 2 DREs with complete 2002 certification, Avante should be certified by sept."

Based on what we know right now, how can any voting machine be certified by a set of rules that were put in place, before we knew what we know today about the voting scam?

When they made HAVA the lawmakers did not know fully what these machines where capable of, now we do.

Should we still be working off of HAVA guidelines?
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-05 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. there were probably a few lawmakers who were very aware of what the
rest of us here know today....HAVA was quite intentional for those folks.
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-05 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
16. Question 2
If we fight to keep the big 3 voting machines companies out of our elections and we do end up with the 2 or 3 DRE voting machines that are certified, what if the big 3 buy out the companies that have the certified machines in place?

If they time it right, lets say a couple months before the 06 election, there is nothing we can do about it,and what we end up with, is certified DRE voting machines in the hands of crooks.

Based solely on the exit polls in the last election, these voting machines should have been pulled apart and investigated by computer scientist, and the government refuses to do it. Why?

Just curious.
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-05 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. good question--
Currently there are 2, 2002 certified DREs--- the Liberty-- made in Europe, The Accupoll- a very small comany, and a 3rd DRE made by Avante -- small company, should have 2002 certs by sept.

There is no way these 3 small vendors can supply the equipment needed by the HAVA dealine.

The deadline needs to be pushed back--- at least one year--- more on that later...........

Can they be bought out--- yes--- will it happen?-- I doubt it. I have meet the 2 guys that run Avante--- I doubt they would want to sell out-- some of the Task Force is in frequent contact with Chet @ Accupoll--- same there -- I doubt it.
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jkd Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-05 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Diebold appears to have qualified their last submission
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. yes -- Diebold has--- I was wrong
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-05 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
18. kick
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-05 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
19. kick.nt
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-05 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
23. Kick!
Thanks Foger.
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