hair brained voting scheme

[mopinko]

the subjects of paper ballots and hand counts, paralell elections, and random audits sort of ran together in my head just now. what if you had random precincts with paper ballots?

[Peggy Day]

1. how about Democratic hackers

they could undo all the manipulation of the votes! That would work!

[MadeinOhio]

2. One problem with playing that game....

To fight the same dirty way as Karl Rove is to become Karl Rove. Elections would still be dishonest, the process would be fraudulent, democracy would still be a sham.

IMO, as much that those individuals are harming the process we would be helping in its downfall if we became them. So as to my idea, restore total transparency, and verifiability, thus beating them at their own game with no conflicts.

[mopinko]

4. really

i did not respond to this post, figuring it was either a joke or a troll.

[tommcintyre]

3. A reality check:

"Politicians, local elections officials, voting machine manufacturers and virtually anyone else remotely connected to the election process come in for a heavy dose of criticism from Gumbel, who writes convincingly that both major parties routinely ignore the system's ills while attempting to manipulate it to their advantage.

"Nothing has been more normal over the past 200-plus years," he writes, "than for one side in an American election to push, shove and strong-arm its way across the finishing line, praising the strength and fairness of the process as it goes, while the other side stares forlornly at the inevitability of defeat and yelps in frustration about the perpetration of an outrageous theft that threatens the very fabric of the nation.""
http://www.sacbee.com/content/lifestyle/books/story/13316546p-14158702c.html
<From an article about "Steal This Vote: Dirty Elections and the Rotten History of Democracy in America" by Andrew Gumbel (MCM recommended this book at the Harper's article conference with John Conyers).

No doubt, the repubs stole the last three elections (in 2k, 02, and 04, they were better at it); but the only chance we EVER have of having accurate elections, is honestly confronting the unbiased realities so we really repair it once and for ALL.

[mopinko]

5. we will never "repair it once and for ALL."

it is a dynamic process that will always be under attack. although i think the black boxes must go, i think a reliable system of audits is a lot more important.
if we had a robust system of picking precincts that are ststistically typical, having an outside team come it, at the last minute (whatever that is, the day before, that morning, whatever.) and set up paper ballots and hand counts, wouldn't that serve as real ground level audit?
even .05% of the precincts, well chosen, would be impossible to hide.

[tommcintyre]

6. I don't mean "perfect", but consistently transparent, honest and reliable

Other countries actually have that. For example, there was a great article in this forum on France's election (below) for the eu constitution (the corps wanted it, but was voted down). It was remarkable to read how transparent their election was.

We are so used to this crap, we can hardly imagine it is possible. Yet fair, transparent elections are "business-as-usual" in many countries (especially in those where the US hasn't had a chance to tamper with their election process ;) ).

Voting, French Style -- An Op-Ed Piece in the Nashville Tennessean
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=375727

Another country actually counts their votes on TV, can you imagine that? WOW! what transparency.

I think, if we set our sights high enough, we can have as good a system as France (why not?). Bush is so bad, that it just might force the american people to insist on a first-rate election system, and NOT settle for a "patch-job".

I can only hope mopinko. :)

edit for spelling

edit again: Now I know what's missing. I really miss your great buttons. :(

[mopinko]

7. aw thanks for noticing

i miss being able to stick whatever buttons i like that day on that sig. i need to get my s*&^ together, and put up some images on another site, so that i can do composites that fit the new "regime"

and yes, you are right, we should shoot for the top. trouble is, i don't know how you are ever going to convince the average american knucklehead that there is anything seriously wrong.