Outside hack of machines?

[FredStembottom]

I am trying to keep up on all things election fraud when a thought occurs to me.

Assuming that the machines (Diebold and otherwise) are left open in some way to allow a Republican hack of the vote during elections, what keeps others from finding the "back-door" and hacking back, so to speak.

Is it a moving security "flaw" or is it just a matter of time before everyone finds it (or them)?

And if so, doesn't that open the door to hacking by folks WHO AREN'T EVEN AMERICANS?

And, if so, isn't that about the scariest thing a conservative could ever contemplate?

Maybe just the secrecy of the systems now being used is enough to begin asking conservatives "how do you KNOW that the vote hasn't been tampered with by COMMUNIST CHINESE?????? Show me how you CONFIRM that Al-Qaeda hasn't learned how to hack these machines????? If the UAE wanted revenge for not getting our ports, would they have an opportunity to get that revenge by hacking our election machines????

HOW DO YOU KNOW? Show me how you know the answer to these questions!

[Land Shark]

1. interesting point, i'll be that Al Qaeda gets better fundraising responses

with * as President than any other likely replacement. Do I like al qaeda? Hell no. But facts are facts, * and al qaeda reinforce each other's power. So conceivably al qaeda could hack the election for Bush to further their aim of uniting the islamic world in some kind of crazy jihad.

[Amaryllis]

2. This point has been raised. Foreign companies have interests and

ownership in these companies. see www.whoscounting.net
Foreigners and felons can own them, even though they can't vote.

[Wilms]

3. Amaryllis, can you give us the link to the article you're referring to?

There are 20+ links on that homepage.

[Amaryllis]

4. Go to the left and click on companies on whoscounting.net

'd have to just read though to find it myself. Lynn Landes' site also has a lot on this.
Go here for a whole slew of stuff on who owns what but I don't know how often she updates. I know whoscounting.net is recent.

http://www.ecotalk.org/VotingMachineCompanies.htm

I know Sequoia was bought by Smartmatic, which is a
Venezualian company.

[Wilms]

6. Link Quest

A growing list of foreign-owned companies count American votes:

Liberty - NEDAP - Netherland owned

Sequoia - Smartmatic - Venezuelan owned

Unisyn Ink-a-Vote - Malaysian owned through International Lottery & Totalizator Inc. (The Ink-a-Vote is used in Los Angeles Co. and marketed by ES&S who recently signed an exclusive agreement with ILTI to manufacture and market a Precinct Ballot Tabulator.)

http://www.wheresthepaper.org/news.html

[FredStembottom]

8. Wow. I didn't even know of foreign ownership!

I was just thinking along the lines of hackers in general. The amateur and professional types who get into other places. Anything from high school kids to actual agents of other countries. We all have seen all kinds of other computers hacked into, no?

I personally haven't decided whether I think there was past Republican hacking into the machines on any election night because I think it may be _irrelevant_. In the sense that the original idea of conducting elections on something as "flimsy" as secret, unverifiable computer networks is ludicrous on it's face.

What I am trying to break down is what I suspect is the average Republican's secret thoughts along the lines of "OK...maybe the machines ARE hackable - but it looks like it has been "set up" for the benefit of Republican candidates.....so.....I'll just let it be."

I think that this "secret" thought is all that supports the entire ridiculous idea of computer voting.

And I am also thinking that they have NO reason to feel assured that any hacking of these machines will be Republican hacking. No reason at all. Because the same system secrecy and the good, old fashioned computer insecurities we have all known for years make the planning of "OK" hacking riddled with doubt and the verification of same impossible!

As soon as this secret thought process ("it works in our favor") is compromised by the dark doubts surrounding just who got in or didn't (and just who these "others" could be!), then we'll see immediate, swift, maybe instant reform and the death of this absurd idea.

Folks, it's Mutual Assured Destruction - caused by mere doubt - and it's already built right into these idiot machines!

[Amaryllis]

9. check this out for a look into a republican mind:

http://www.chuckherrin.com/ConservativeEmpathy.htm

Empathy Training for Compassionate Conservatives: Why the Democrats Are Still Whining About the Election (and Why Maybe We Should Be, Too)

[Amaryllis]

5. Also Bev talks about it on the film INvisible Ballots so it may be in

her book also. She just talks about it in general terms, as far as who would have motivation to rig elections other than the parties and the candidates.

[FogerRox]

7. I think the conventional wisdom is that

with the hacking of Diebolds optical scanner and the Diebold DRE, this equipment is designed for the inside hack- as in the Diebold tech or other company Agent.

-ES&S DREs, same as Diebold ?

-Sequoia opticacal scanners, same as ES&S- original design predates the DOJ breakup of A.I.S. in IIRC 1997. These scanners are refered to as Op-techs, or OPtech 3 or 4, or OPtech Eagles.