Need for 'Untouchable Exit Polls' for future elections

[Kansas Wyatt]

***Okay, I posted this title a few days ago in the GD, and I was asked to post it again in the topic forum. I don't remember exactly what I wrote, but here it is anyway. This is roughly, a problem that I see, it's effect on the election process, and the present ineffective remedy to that process. This might be a way to push for credible elections, that would come from average citizens.***

In past few elections, exit pollsters may have been leaned on to change their exit poll results to match the government's "official" result and the establishment in the Corporate Republican MSM, even though their exit polls were showing a different result of the election. First this automatically gives the "official" result a false credibility, and secondly, makes contesting the "official" election result very difficult and in a very weak position, since the exit pollster already gave a false credible match of the results and sits on the information until it's too late. Needless to say, if you are going to commit election fraud, you are going to have to lean on the exit pollsters to go along with the "official" result and even Republican pundits were questioning the validity of exit polls (freudian slip in their projection attack) in 2004.

So, it seems that this country desperately needs "untouchable" exit polls to guarantee the "official" election results and the accuracy of our election process. The question is, can we organize, get funding, and come up with an unbiased exit poll on the national scale to guarantee the accuracy of our elections, that cannot be leaned on to match the government's "official" results or the establishment's alleged results? An effort that 'We The People,' absent of inside interests, can do to make our elections free from corruption and fraud, that would be untouchable and provide credible evidence of election fraud if the "official" result didn't closely match.

This country relies on exit polls in other countries to verify their election results, yet we do not rely on exit polls to guarantee accuracy and our exit pollsters dismiss their data to match the "official" result. Why can't the world's alleged champion of democracy, have it's "official" election results checked by 'untouchable exit polls' to guarantee accuracy and credibility?

[kansasblue]

1. Yes, we do!

The consortium they've been putting together keeps screwing us.

Like 2002, when the party not holding the presidency historically gains seats. In 2002 the Dems didn't. What did the exit polls say? There were none... the company in charge reported a complete system meltdown.

[BlackHeart]

2. Can an exit poll truly be 'untouchable'?

Can any poll attain that?

[goclark]

5. In the last election the exit polls were "untouchable" for Democrats

They allowed the MSM to play with their numbers and leave us all numb!

We could not respond to their "fake numbers" because we didn't have a strategy or a checks and balance system to even challenge what their numbers were saying.

I want to stand outside of my polling place and ask everyone that wants to to sign, just like they do with petitions,who they voted for ~ if they don't want to sign, they don't have to but I wouldn't care who knew I voted for KERRY!

I hsve worked the polls for the last 4 years and most people will gladly tell you who they voted for, what is the secret?

DIEBOLD has us so scared, it's just like "terra,terra."

They sure know how to scare us!

[kster]

3. We already have an untouchable exit poll

they won't let us touch it.

[goclark]

6. Sad but true and I want us to be the EXIT POLL BRIGADE!

What are the rules, laws?

[goclark]

4. Thanks Kansas Wyatt ~ this needs to be discussed! K and R

I understand exactly what you mean!

What are the requirements to be an exit pollster?

I want something that will scare the hell out of anyone that tries to say that 60 people voted in my neighborhood and all of them but two voted Republican when I KNOW that 38 voted Democratic!

There should be some group that can be qualified,to ask them same exit type questions at a grass roots level.

There should be some way that if I want to come out of the polling place and sign that I voted for Wesley Clark, I should be able to do that without having to tell it to Zogby!

Kicking for answers and recommended because without answers and a scare strategy for DIEBOLD, guess who wins AGAIN!

[Kansas Wyatt]

12. It would have to be a grass roots effort.

While some gains have been made with going after the Republican Slot Machines (Diebold etc.), it still only addresses a specific problem and does not completely eliminate their election fraud. However, if the Republican proprietors and politicians knew that the people would find out if they are defrauding them at the election poll, they wouldn't run with it like 'Corrupt Republicans Gone Wild' and may think twice about committing exposed fraud.

Credible untouchable exit polls would insure our election process from their present frauds and any other form of election fraud that they would try to commit. It would have to be on the local levels that individually reported to a national center via voice communication (no computer tabulating to hack), and then the national center could publish all results on a web-site for all local levels to verify and for the public to see.

[applegrove]

7. What makes you think the exit polls themselves are not the very thing

that is being toyed with? The only evidence is that the exit polls don't match the results. All the rest is speculation.

Much easier to fool an exit pollster who tries to take a random sample but has to stand 100 feet from the doors to the school gym... than to massively steal votes from machines.

Exit polls kept Kerry voters home..thinking he had already won from 2 PM till 8PM. In the last Nov 2005 elections there was very little polling.. and Dems won!

I truly believe that voter insecurity garnered by off exit polls is just the gift that keeps on giving to the repukes (or so they had hoped). By getting progressives to focus on one piece of potential malfeasance over the other 49 kinds that are just as or more proven (too few machines, vetting felon lists by race, intimidation, jaming "get out the vote" phone banks, false results in exit polls that over-estimate the results for Dems, swift-boating, etc.). Plus it is the perfect wedge issue to keep progressives from getting along or connecting with moderates.

Don't forget the other 49 ways the Repukes steal elections.

[OnTheOtherHand]

23. we can learn from the parallel election in San Diego

Last July activists conducted a parallel mayoral election in give precincts in San Diego. They managed to get almost 50% participation among all the voters in those precincts.

The discrepancy in the margin between the two top candidates, parallel election versus machine results, was about 6.3 points -- similar to the discrepancy in the 2004 exit polls. Interestingly, the largest discrepancies were in the precincts with the highest participation rates (up to 66%).

The activists obtained a recount of these five precincts plus six others. The recount results were very similar to the original official results.

To me, that says that (1) we don't need to conjecture some Republican hack of the 2004 exit polls in order to account for the 2004 exit poll discrepancies, and (2) we don't need to conjecture a hack of the vote count, either. And, (3) indeed there is no such thing as an untouchable exit poll. Now, I think that exit polls and parallel elections probably can be useful anyway -- but the use should be consistent with what we know about them.

[autorank]

8. Even with the touchable ones, TIA nailed them!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x621028

Check it out.

[OnTheOtherHand]

9. best wishes to TIA

I have been worried ever since Febble first mentioned that he seemed to have 'disappeared.'

Whatever I think of TIA's arguments and manners, he has a good heart. I will be among those praying for his recovery, if that doesn't weird him out too much.

[Febble]

18. I second that

But also didn't want to weird out anyone (least of all TIA) by posting on his thread.

But maybe I will anyway.

[goclark]

20. He sure does have a good heart and he is smart! nt

[Kansas Wyatt]

11. Yes, I remember TIA calling out the touchable pollsters

However, if I remember correctly, even though he tore them up, the data still was not immediately known. By the time he could pick them apart, widespread reporting had already matched the "official" claim and the public just said, 'even though something isn't right, okay.' Not to mention a campaign to label anyone who questioned the "official" result as a crybaby crack-pot. Besides, very few Americans knew what the exit pollsters really knew about "official" result, but would never even address, unless they came to the DU and followed TIA.

With a very important election coming up and Democrats strongly gaining ground, we are still at the mercy of the corrupt party obsessed with power, their paid for Corporate Republican MSM, Republican Slot Machines, and exit pollsters who either do not want to rock the boat or are being controlled. Even though the U.S. relishes exit polls in other countries, the U.S. evades the thought of exit polls here to ensure the accuracy of our election process. Why, and who benefits from it?

[peace_on_earth]

10. Is John Zogby the man for the job?

I don't know a lot about him, but of the main polling firms, he seems to be one of the more honest players. He will also take on more controversial polls, if he's paid. And, I think his polls have a good amount of credibility in the public.

[truckin]

15. Zogby would be a good choice to set up administer and election

activists in every state could be the foot soldiers who perform the interviews. This needs to be done in an open way, unlike the secrecy around the current exit poll process, to ensure future elections are fair. I would be glad to be an exit poller in my state if we could organize this.

[goclark]

19. I would be thrilled to be an exit pollster!

[truckin]

22. How can we make this happen? Would Zogby, or another

pollster agree to work with volunteers a non-partisan voting activist group? I think this idea needs to be explored.

[goclark]

24. BINGO trukin and welcome to DU

Finally, someone is listening.

That's the kind of response we need.

I'll contact Zogby and see what happens.

Who else has some ideas?

[truckin]

26. Let us know what kind of response you get. I'll be glad to help

however I can.

[Chi]

13. There is no way to satisfy those who currently dismiss the last polls

I've considered the same idea before.
I thought the use of raised funds and a private pollster focusing on
Ohio or Florida would do it....one problem.
As soon as the S.O.S. imposes restrictions on pollster location,
there will be an instant nullification of accuracy.

But they don't even need that, response bias is the explanation that is used now,
even though there is no proof it was really the cause of the discrepancy.

[goclark]

14. So what do we do ~ nothing?

If Harriett Tubman could move slaves from their owners,I can't believe that we just sit back and do nothing.

There must be a way.

Must be something that will let them know that "We're Mad As Hell and We're Not Going To Take It Anymore."

Plantation Bush is on the march!

[Chi]

16. By no means did I mean to suggest complacency.

And I was not criticizing your idea.

In simplest terms I would think the 2 available options are
Prevent it, or Catch em.

But they are busy creating rules and laws to prevent either (no photos of voting lines is
a good example, and no hand counting tabulated ballots in Fl is another).

High on the list would be registration verification, and public information
on where, when, and how to vote in Urban area with high percentages of spoiled votes.
With the rise of disapproval ratings I'm hoping 06 will give Dem's an insurmountable lead.

[goclark]

17. I like the CATCH UM way

I would love to invite all the voters to meet on the next corner and somehow be able to say,not to me, but to a notary of some sort, how they voted.

I know that some people say that that wouldn't work because some people will lie.

Well they "lie" to the pollsters > that lie to the Media > that LIE to us.

So I think we need a PEOPLE's POLLSTER COMPANY that "SockS It To UM and KEEPS THEM GUESSING @ ehich polling locations we will roll up to...

[goclark]

21. I understand but we need more than hope

we must have ACTION and NOW.

We were led to believe that we needed more voters in '06, they discovered they they could not out vote us in 2002/04 so they DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT....DIEBOLD.

I will never believe they WON in 2002 or 04...never!
No way did GW bet Kerry, no way!

They realized that they had to put their people(Blackwell etc.)in key places so that they could also tamper with the voter registration.

Guess what, their Crime Family Activities WON!

With the Supreme Court now truly in their back pocket, they will win forever.

We need Grass Roots Action NOW!

[BeFree]

25. Exit polls can be corrupted and were

We can not depend one bit on exit-polls. Throw 'em out the door!

What we must do is take back the people's rights to an open and honest vote count. Each and every one of us must demand that we have the right to examine how our votes are counted.

Over 30% of the votes cast in 2004 were done behind a fence constructed by private businesses. That can not be allowed again.

Various state laws and other constructs meant to deny our right to examine the vote count must be destroyed. My state has destroyed the fence the vendors hid behind, and if my state can do it, so can your's.

The death of privately counted elections would be the truest of reforms.

Demand your right to examine how your vote is counted.