I've Learned a Lot This Week on Dem Underground (Response by Land Shark)

[Land Shark]

A response to the #1 Post on the Greatest Page late Sunday:
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x819530>

My comments are in brackets after each paragraph in the original. This post states, in part, various examples of lessons learned in the last week on DU:

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Fighting over Cynthia Mckinney isn't the problem... ...The MSM is. (problem of information dispersal/presentation)

<...>

Scalia giving an obscene gesture is not the problem... ...Having a lack of laws that thereby enable companies and entities to fire someone who thinks the truth is important, is the problem. (lack of respect for those whistleblowing to protect processes of govt)

Fighting about whether Feingold's censure resolution was appropriate, well planned, well executed, or well intended, is not the issue... ...the fact that probably 80% of americans don't know a fiftieth of the reasons why * should be censured, is the issue. (problems of information dispersal/presentation)

Forging scathing bitter battles about why men should or shouldn't be allowed to debate the abortion issue is not where the problem lies... ...Having legislatures that are allowed to use religious malarky as the basis of their laws, is. (problem of information in that counterpoints to "religious malarkey" are underreported)

{...}

Fighting over who will be our candidate in 08 and if they'd be worthy, is not the issue... ...wondering if regardless we'll have voting mechanisms that actually record our votes accurately without compromising the very fabric of what democracy is, is most definitely the issue. (:bounce: :party: We Have a Winner!! :party: :bounce:)

See, I've learned a lot this week. I've learned we can lose focus realllllly quickly in these trying times. (...) Not much time left. No matter how much we fight, bicker, and be all around petty on here, at the end of the day we have the same fight and goals for the most part. (...)

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THE COMMONALITY OF ALL OF THESE IS THAT OUR PROCEDURES HAVE BEEN CORRUPTED.

(1) THE PEOPLE MUST POLICE THEIR INFORMATIONAL PROCEDURES (MEDIA) TO INSURE THEY GET VARIOUS POINTS OF VIEW SO THE PUBLIC CAN BE INFORMED.

(2) THE PEOPLE MUST POLICE THEIR ELECTION PROCEDURES TO INSURE INTEGRITY, OTHERWISE THE SYSTEM CAN NOT CHANGE COURSE ACCORDING TO THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.

The proper frame, however, is not to say that the progressive view or the progressive candidate has been censored or robbed (even if true) but that the processes and integrity of the media has been corrupted and the processes and integrity of elections has been corrupted.

This frame is ANCHORED in FREEDOM. Why? Freedom is not required to work 9-5 or do something nobody else objects to, it's required to do something unpopular. So if the media is afraid of backlash from presenting information in a balanced way, they should not shrink from freedom. If the media is afraid to help police the process of elections, they should not shrink from freedom by failing to report. If elections officials are afraid to have complete transparency for fear of more criticism, they should not allow their personal interests to trump the greater public interest and democracy's interest in procedural integrity, for without it democracy is, by definition, dead. Democratic elections are just a procedure, and if they are not pure, we have nothing.

Bottom line: If media officials and elections officials believe that anybody in our country's history died for freedom, then what right do they think they have to shrink from freedom now???

We don't always have to berate them, we can encourage them that they are on solid ground when they move our way. And for media especially, we can write and say there's an issue or a person you're really looking for coverage on, and you're wondering if there will be any coverage soon because they are supposed to "let the reader decide" and you really want to be a fully informed citizen.

It should be clear, from the approach in the paragraph above, that the media is failing in their job to police or insure the integrity of the information processes when they fail to report all of the news of the day. It's not up to them to decide what's right and what's wrong. Even if they thought it doubtful that democracy was at risk, if in fact it is the potential damages are so high they are worth protecting against. It's like seatbelts and kids' car seats. The chances of any individual trip being an accident are very low, but the damages being so high, we take actions every day to protect against that.

[understandinglife]

1. "... but that the processes and integrity of the media have been ....

... corrupted and the processes and integrity of elections has been corrupted."

Precisely.

And, here's just one more current example how the "processes and integrity of the media have been corrupted":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=824105&mesg_id=824105


"Vote, privately: count votes, publicly"

[AuntiBush]

3. Here's My Take On It - Happened Today

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=824105&mesg_id=825012

[Land Shark]

13. Saw your thread there; left my calling card; good job

[Canuckistanian]

2. My very first post on DU

Was a rant and a warning about letting the voting machine issue continue unopposed. I believe that was in 2003.

Three years later, it's still an issue, although there are a few sparks of life.

What I couldn't believe then (and now) is, you can't call yourself a democracy if you haven't got the vote to change anything.

Everything is just smoke and mirrors without it.

[Land Shark]

5. True, but the recognition of the problem can lead to an awakening

[AuntiBush]

7. It Sure is a Great Start!

Thanks for that positive remark. At times one looses hope, but like any other emotion, it comes and goes. Not bad all things considering these days. :)

[AuntiBush]

4. Land Shark

I owe you a big "thank you" because I have learned a lot from you, as well... your courage in continuously trying to get the truth out is most admirable.

[AuntiBush]

6. Kick Her Up for Others!

:kick:

[BeFree]

8. Elections are the basis of democracy

All the words on DU are not worth a bucket of warm spit if we allow the process for change (our accumulated votes) to be corrupted.

Now, some might argue that the process remains uncorrupted; that our votes are correctly recorded. Of course, they can't prove that the process is not corrupted, but we can show how the process is corrupted and has a potential to be further corrupted.

The media is awakening to the potential corruption. Let us not allow the opportunity of further awakening to be denied. We need this mass awakening.

[AuntiBush]

9. I hope you're right, BeFree

about the media. Right now on C-SPAN2 Amy Goodman is speaking about everything, including voting reform.

If it ain't broke, don't fix-it. It's broke. As long as others continue to get the word out, it can be fixed.

Can not wait to hear of approval for possible election judge this fall. Its a small way of at least trying to be pro-active, from from the keyboard.

[BeFree]

12. Its coming out,

The drip, drip, drip is amounting to a small puddle. The media is beginning to notice that puddle.

Maybe the terror they felt when dealing with an outraged bunch of anti-black boxers is subsiding?

Whatever, the truth of broken elections can not be hidden much longer. And as long as we can breathe, the truth will be on our lips, eh?

[AuntiBush]

17. Yes

Can not thank you enough for keep our chins and hope up. Mean that.

Oh, and word of mouth really does work.

[Land Shark]

10. It's simpler than that BeFRee: Blindfolds are complete process Corruption

The thread explaining the blindfolding metaphor is here (I know BeFree has seen it):
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x420067>

[BeFree]

19. Yes, but the blindfolds are coming off...

...and the passengers are charting a new course. Now that the conspiracy is being made public we are all beginning to look like prophets!

[kster]

28. Prophet,? I better change my wardrobe

Do you think I could get that outfit on the left in burgundy? :rofl:

[Canuckistanian]

11. Yup, talk is cheap

But people such as Andy S. reminded us that change comes from action, not navel-gazing. It takes bravery and a willingness to stick it out, especially when the chips are stacked against you.

2006 will be a watershed year.

[BeFree]

15. Ah yes, a watershed year

Andy: hope he's arguing our case in the hereafter, and not resting quite yet.

We are making a difference. Just showing up and posting here on ER is helping. Folks thought we would have gotten over it by now, but since the media sees the story being kept alive, it quite correctly arouses their curiosity, besides keeping DU informed of 'what's up' with election reform.

The chips may be stacked against us, but I'll still bet on us winning because we. have. the. truth.

[Amaryllis]

16. AND we even have MSM coming out with lots of articles now, even

though they keep talking about "computer glitches" and "human error" and "need more training of election officials and pollworkers". At least they are raising awareness that there are problems! A year ago we could get NOTHING from them. And it's amazing how many Ion Sancho articles there have been in MSM, and all supportive as far as I know.

[BeFree]

18. Yep on the M$M

And what we've seen is: "Wait a minute, we have a problem here."

Thanks to good folks like you on this here little bitty corner of the networld, and other activists, the media is awakening. Ya know, someone needs to start a thread along those lines. (hint, hint)

[Amaryllis]

27. What do you have in mind? You could start a thread! Not sure what

you mean. "Kudos to us; we're making a difference?" :)

[Hissyspit]

14. Bottom line theme is excellent analytical conclusion:

"If media officials and elections officials believe that anybody in our country's history died for freedom, then what right do they think they have to shrink from freedom now???"

[autorank]

20. K&R. Excellent but you need a #3 and 4

(3) THE PEOPLE MUST RECOGNIZE THAT THE MEDIA AND THE GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS ARE BOUGHT AND SELL THEMSELVES TO THE HIGHEST BIDDERS REGARDLESS OF THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.

and the corollary

(4) EVEN WHEN THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE IS CLEAR, (E.G., FREE & FAIR ELECTIONS, LEAVE IRAQ SOON), THE MEDIA AND THOSE WHO GOVERN WILL IGNORE THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.

THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN

We need a movement that recognizes 3 & 4 as the basic premise of the entire argument we have with those who mis-govern, supposedly in "our name." They have no legitimacy. They have no standards. They only have a price.

[kster]

22. We have to go after the MEDIA

Debra Bowen "SNOOKERED" Al Franken and his bosses the other day, I hope everyone on our side listens CAREFULLY to how she did it. She is a SMART lady.

[kster]

21. On the issue of kids seat belts,lets look at car seats for kids

if there was a recall on a certain brand of car seat for kids, lets say in (Maryland), and the other two popular car seat makers were starting to get complaints from consumers in other states lets say in (Texas and Ilinois) would it be wise if the rest of the states, ignore all the warning signs from these three states, and continue to let the stores sell these car seats for kids in their state?

[kster]

23. I'd like to add something to this

if the three car seat makers are selling dangerous products, The people would then hope that if the media won't tell the truth about the car seats, that they could depend on their GOVERNMENT to tell the truth to all the other states as to why they shouldn't purchase the three brands of car seats, RIGHT?

Then why is the Government trying to Demand that NY purchase one of these three dangerous car seats?

[Land Shark]

24. And it you *don't* purchase a seat, you're a BAD guy.

interesting analogy

[BeFree]

25. Of course not

At nearly the first sign of failure due to the basic design ALL such items would be pulled from the shelves. But if they had the backing of powerful congressmen and the president, then they'd find a way to keep the facts hidden from the public and be allowed to keep selling the faulty items.

However, lawsuits would soon enough begin suing the companies that produced the sub-standard products. Courts were made to level the playing field for the little guy and keep markets honestly open.

Our problem is that we don't have an free and open market. The monopolies have conspired to close and totally control the market. Imagine a car-seat vendor with the power to keep the consumer from doing a thorough study of the product. Such a thing would not be allowed in a true free market enterprise. But here we are.

[Land Shark]

26. good points Be Free, particularly about the study of the product