I. Am. Pissed. Off.

[garybeck]

I'm not usually a ranter. Not usually.

Checked my email this morning and noticed that the "meetup" for Northern Vermont DFA (Democracy for America) was meeting this evening. After the usual yawn I saw that the meeting was at the National DFA headquarters. Hmmm, maybe I'll go... There will probably be some of the national folks there. I'll have a chat with them and try to get them to pay more attention to the biggest problem our country faces - the electronic voting machines. I've always wondered why DFA has been ignorning this issue and maybe this is my chance.

So I brought 25 copies of the "Election Truth CDROM" to hand out, printed some flyers, thought about what I will say (there's usually an opportunity to stand up and say something at these meetups). Even brought a newsletter signup list for our new group - Vermonters for Voting Integrity. Even if I just get a few people to sign up on our list, the evening won't be lost, right?

went to the "meetup" which was supposed to be for the Burlington chapter of DFA. Turns out there was a problem with their website and it posted the wrong day. I was the only one who responded to the incorrect email (and even checked it on their website).

But guess what, the two guys from "national" DFA were still there working late in their office. Hard workers, those DFA folks.

The first guy I met was apologetic about the "meetup mixup." I gave him a short rap about the voting machines. He was genuinely interested. He took the flyer, CDROM, gave me his email address, and said he thought DFA should look into it more. Wow, this is too easy, I thought. This huge national organization with millions of people on their mailing list, and I just walked in the front door and got them to think about raising the issue of electronic voting with their huge member list.

Then one other guy shows up. He got the email too. Of course I wouldn't let him leave without a flyer and a CD ROM. He's a lawyer, actually running for DA of burlington. Nice guy. He had never heard of Diebold, knew absolutely nothing about the issue. But I told him about the Hursti Hack, what's going on in California, and he was also genuinely interested. He signed up to get our newsletter. I was practically walking on air.

Then, the first guy I talked to came back, and told us that "Chris" the head honcho of all of DFA happened to still be around, and he wanted to come over and chat.

Wow, I thought, this is great!

Not.

I recognized Chris from another DFA meeting I had been to several months ago, when I gave a 5 minute rap on electronic voting. I reached out my hand to shake, and said, "Oh we've met before, how ya doing?"

Now while the first guy seemed like a genuine person, Chris seemed like a politician. He is young, I'd say late 20s. But he talks with a smile that never leaves his face, and he talks "at" you. You know what I mean. He acknowledged that we had met before but that was the extent of anything positive that I got from him.

He went on to say that DFA is addressing many issues that they feel are important and the electronic voting machines is not currently a priority. He started telling me about how many issues there are and candidates that need their support and so forth.

But wait! I tried to get a word in. I stated the OBVIOUS, that if we spend all kinds of time and money supporting the candidates we think are the best choices, and the elections are rigged, isn't it sort of a waste of time? Isn't it putting the cart before the horse?

His response? We have many issues we're working on and it just isn't one of our main priorities right now.

Is that a real answer? Is it just me or is he just ignoring my question?

I go the distinct impression that he wasn't really interested in hearing what I had to say.

On further pressing the issue, he said that on the subject at hand, DFA does share my concern, but their way of addressing the issue is to focus on trying to get paper ballots everywhere nationwide. He said they are endorsing Debra Bowen because she supports paper ballots. I got the feeling that it was his belief that if there were just paper ballots everywhere, everything would be fine. It's just the DREs that are the problem (he didn't say that directly but that is what I implied by his focusing on just getting paper ballots).

So I mentioned how the opscans are just as bad, and the memory cards are a real problem. I tried to hand him my flyer and he wouldn't take it. He again repeated that it is not an issue of priority for DFA right now.

At this point I felt he was being rude, not really answering my questions, not taking my flyer, the incessant smile on his face while he talked "at" me. But I remained calm and respectful.

I said, "so what happens this November when the prepolling and exit polls show Bernie Sanders far ahead, but he loses the election?" (in vermont we have all paper ballots)

"It's just not a priority for DFA at this time"

I didn't feel like there was much more than I could say and I felt like he was just waiting for me to finish my schpeel so he could go back to his office. So I left. On the way home I went shopping at the grocery store and I was steaming mad.

Is this guy, the head of DFA, just another ostrich with his head in the sand, who thinks we can just "vote these jerks out of office" and is afraid to face the fact that our democracy is in a complete shambles? Does he think I'm a crazy conspiracy nut wasting his time?

So, do I just give up on DFA? The very organization that was started by Howard Dean, who went on TV to demonstrate the problems with electronic voting, has come full circle and now just thinks that paper ballots is all that matters (never mind that Dean was demonstrating the problem with central tabulators, which affects ALL kinds of voting systmes).

Tell me, is it obvious to others that you have to have confidence in the election system if you want the candidates you support to have a chance of winning? Is it obvious to others that he's putting the cart before the horse?

I don't know. But it's depressing and angering to me that an organization that calls itself "Democracy for America" is not concerned with democracy. I do acknowledge that the other fellow there seemed much more geniune and also very interested in the problem. But Chris isn't, and unfortunately he seems to be pulling a lot of the strings there.

I know many people have been wondering why DFA has been pretty silent on this issue and I might have just found the answer. So there you go.

....

I thought about deleting this before posting. I thought about suggesting that everyone print this post out and send it to Chris in the mail. Maybe he would take his head out of the sand. But I don't want to harrass Chris, and he didn't really strike me as the type of person eager to listen to people's views. He seemed to have it all figured out and he doesn't need anyone's input. I don't want to burn any bridges with an organization that I had a lot of respect for, and I thought had potential to move mountains. But tonight's experience saddened me and I don't see any reason to waste any time with them anymore.

GB, (the solar bus guy)

PS - a true rant should not be edited. I apologize for spelling and grammatical errors.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. I just want you to know I read all of this

Since you took the time to write it, I wanted you to know it was read. I don't know what to tell you. I suspect in an area with a small population such as VT, it is not the priority it would be here in Cali where there are less opportunities to get a real recount.

It is good that you planted the seed of concern with the other players, however. Even if this guy was dismissive, you made your point and the other guy has the info to ponder. That much you can be satisfied with.

[garybeck]

8. thanks, and

as I said in another reply, many of the state DF(x) groups are doing good things. I was dealing with the national headquarters. And I have found that DF(x) stategroups and DFA national are not the same group. they are only loosely affiliated. unfortunately here in VT, there is a stronger bond between the state and national group because of proximity. I haven't gotte any further with the head of Democracy for Vermont, but I haven't given up on her yet.

[evlbstrd]

2. That's very disheartening to read.

Our locaL DFA very active on HAVA and the rise of the machines. Maybe it's because Diebold is about to happen to us. Unfortunately, the board of elections responded to us almost exactly the same way Chris did to you. They were more concerned with accessibilty issues, especially for the blind. Oh, and Diebold offered them money to help pay for the whole shebang.

[rucky]

3. He's a kid with DC aspirations

...and he's "practicing" on you with the grain of power he does posess by stonewalling. I say the lad has a fine future in politics. Maybe a White House press secretary?

the people really making a difference aren't sitting in the office.

I wouldn't sweat it.

[garybeck]

10. "the people really making a difference aren't sitting in the office."

you are correct, but in this case these are the guys who decide the issues that will be focused on, in the mailings, meetings, website, etc. If he wanted people to wake up to the issue, he could definitely shine the spotlight on the voting machines in a significant way. That's why I thought it was worth it to go to this meeting in the first place. oh well. I've been turned away before and it never stopped me. onward.

[GuvWurld]

4. No way to be sure

Gary, I'm glad that you have a place to vent when it feels necessary.

Have you considered that Chris might be one of those people who are not really Dems, posing as a Dem? Get enough of them in place and grassroots groups just might find themselves confounded and unable to come up with coherent strategies.

The other thing that crossed my mind is whether you could have asked the first guy, in front of the second guy, if he necessarily has the same priorities as the DFA? Basically, the rest of the group needs to call no confidence on Chris and then on up whatever hierarchical chain there is until the only people left are people who get it.

[garybeck]

19. the thought crossed my mind.

the scenario is, put a bunch of these people in high places in all the orgs. have them work hard on everything except one issue - e-voting. and whenever the question comes up, shoot it down.

but that would be a conspiracy theory, and you know how I feel about conspiracy theories :)

to tell you the truth, you are correct, you never can know. The ostrich in the sand is more plausible, but I do think it is very strange that he just sort of ignored my question and repeated "it's not our priority right now". to tell you the truth, I'd rather he said, "the voting machines are fine and you are a conspiracy nut" rather than just dodging my question.

[GuvWurld]

20. Manchurians

Raymond Shaw is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

We Are Being Set Up: The Manchurian Nation

[Land Shark]

5. Locally, DFA leads the way along with others, sponsoring fora, etc.

two out of three ain't bad, especially when #3 is a politician-type

DFA did that flash-ad on paper ballots, didn't they (a couple weeks ago?)

[garybeck]

7. difference between DFA and DF(X)

I believe there is a big division between the national group and the state groups. they are loosely affiliated but act independently of each other. Many of the DF(X) groups are VERY active in electronic voting reform. New Hampshire, right next door, is one of the best examples.

But the national DFA, which is what I was dealing with, is a lost cause. Maybe that's what grass roots is all about.

[garybeck]

14. DFA flash ad on evoting

i believe you are correct that DFA had a flash ad, but as I remember its only point was that paper ballots are the answer. so if the entire country went diebold opscan, we're fine. many of us had siginificant criticisms with it. looking back it was pretty aligned with what Chris was telling me. the only recognition he would give to the problem is that we need paper ballots.

[WildEyedLiberal]

6. But, but, but, DFA is the true grassroots!

Surely such a pure progressive organization wouldn't have a - gasp - wheedling politician manning the helm, responding to genuine constituent concerns with canned non-answers? That's not the progressive grassroots way! I'm shocked, SHOCKED I TELL YOU! Why do you hate DFA?

:sarcasm: in case it wasn't obvious.

Seriously, that's quite disappointing, but I'm not surprised. While I don't doubt the sincerity of many local activists who are in DFA, I get really tired of those who claim that DFA is the spotless epitome of grassroots perfection. As your anecdote illustrates, DFA is just another PAC, with all the requisitie politico-talk, and I certainly don't think it has any sort of corner on the grassroots market or grassroots issues.

You should don a flame suit now, though, because the DFA brigade is going to be out to lynch you for your thoughtcrime. (Questioning DFA's purity! Horrors!)

[KT2000]

9. You are wise

not to want to burn your bridges. This guy sounds like a politico wannabe. There was no reason for him to alienate you in the manner that he did. I would guess that he will not last that long as his behavior was not very effective.

Can you write to the headquarters of DFA noting the lack of response from your local chapter? You can reaffirm the importance of the issue and serve as a reminder to the entire organization about voting.

I'm sorry you had such an evening but you did "plant some seeds" with the responsive fellow and forced the guy who did not want to deal with it to expose himself as an ass to others. (If you were working on an environmental issue - that would be considered a good day!)

[garybeck]

11. that was not my local chapter. that WAS the national headquarters.

I probably wouldn't have written that rant if it wasn't the national headquarters where that happened.

I've actually had similar things happen at my local chapter.

I'm not sure what Chris's official title is but I've seen him before and I think he is one of the main strategists for the national DFA organization. In fact he might be the #1 guy. That's why I got so PO'd.

[KT2000]

12. Oh no.........

sorry, I should have read more carefully. Then that really is problematic.

Generally speaking, I have always wondered why Democratic organizations have not grasped the voting problem. Why do they avoid the issue?
I'm stumped.

[Canuckistanian]

26. Yes, for God's sake, write a letter!

Do you think the DFA begins and ends with this youngster barely out of diapers? He must have a manager somehere.

And if you think they've been corrupted somehow, you need to alert everyone you can find an address for.

Even mildly suggest that his obvious "talents" are best used elsewhere, perhaps in PR. But not in the machinery of the political wing.

[NYC]

13. Don't give up.

You hit one stone wall. Keep going. The first guy was interested. Others will be, too.

[garybeck]

15. me give up? I guess you've never ridden on the solar bus :)

hop on for a ride sometime. the solar bus rolls on, no matter how many ostrichs stand in the way. we just drive around them. this one in particular I thought was worth sharing the experience because many people have wondered why DFA is not more involved in this issue.

[Kiouni]

16. i wish they

would have been more interested because after reading this i am more interested im sorry to say that i haven't heard to much about these eletronic voting machines out side of what the news has said in the main stream.

[garybeck]

18. welcome to DU, Kiouni.

the issue is clearly the biggest issue we face, because everything in our country stems from the right to vote. the e-voting issue/controversy/scandal is complex and the more you look at it the more technical it gets. absorb it at your own pace. the more you turn from the main stream media and towards the folks who are reporting on what's really going on, you'll figure it out.

in a nutshell, the elections can be rigged without a trace of evidence. the outcome of the national elections are in the palms of the hands of three private companies who make nearly all the voting machines nationwide. they have the ability to set the results before the election takes place, and there is no test on the machines that would detect this. oh and by the way did I mention that all three companies have direct ties to the Republican Party?

it sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory, I know. But it's the truth, and it's been verified by computer security experts time and time again.

As a place to start, I would suggest an article called "The Harri Hursti Hack, and Its Importance To Our Nation." You can find it right here:

http://www.votetrustusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=798&Itemid=51

after that, the next best thing to do is find a group in your state who is working on the issue. Here are three websites listing state groups:

http://www.solarbus.org/election/links.shtml#stategroups

http://votetrustusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=8&Itemid=113

http://www.votersunite.org/info/groups.asp

and the good folks in this forum are here anytime you have a question or concern.

welcome. and peace.
gb

[Kiouni]

22. thank you

for all the information i found it very enlightening and see your night was not wasted because you did get the message out.

jc

[silverojo]

17. I'm glad you told us about this

I don't know why so many Dems bury their heads in the sand when it comes to voting fraud. Are they too scared to face the truth, or perhaps something more sinister? I don't think anyone knows for sure, except for people like "Chris", who are basically telling us to ignore the man behind the curtain.

In the meantime, I guess we have no choice but to support these organizations, since (in other ways) they're trying to help get Dems elected.

However, I hope it doesn't turn out that voting fraud gives the Repukes the advantage again, forcing the Dems to realize (too late) that--gee!--maybe we SHOULD make this a priority issue.

Sigh....

[file83]

21. That sucks. I don't blame you for being pissed and

disappointed, especially with the kind of bullshit you had to deal with from THESE people. I'd expect a lot more than that.

[acmavm]

23. Guy sounds like real DLC material if you ask me. And we all know

what a bunch of worthless bozos they are.

[crispini]

24. FYI, I am a local meetup organizer for DFA

and I agree with what some of the posters say about there being a difference between national and local meetup groups on a lot of things. We don't pay a lot of attention to Vermont, although we do pay SOME attention to them.

[garybeck]

36. differences between

yeah, there's also of course a difference between DFA and meetup. it's all sort of confusing and part of the problem is that grassroots efforts are usually not "top-down" organized.

regardless, DFA national should be 1) aware of the situation with the voting machines, and 2) supportive in general of local DFA groups who want to focus on it.

When I met the national folks, they rejected me and my desire to focus on the issue from the state level. Chris did not encourage me to talk to the state and local groups. that is a problem.

[noamnety]

25. explain again why we aren't all emailing Chris

It's because we'd rather not make an issue out of voting if there's a chance it will offend him? hmmmmmm.

[garybeck]

37. I don't know. Let's let it simmer a little more...

I have gotten some responses from people that know Chris, with some interesting perspectives. I agree, it might not be a bad idea to contact Chris again in some way. Having a bunch of people write to him might be it. Another thing is, I know where the office is for DFA national headquarters. Perhaps a stack of letters hand delivered, or even just using snail mail, might be more effective.

[nicknameless]

27. It seems like the issue of election fraud keeps picking up steam --

even in the “mainstream” media.

Yet I’ve found endless frustration in trying to convey the importance of this matter to political offices -- even in California. For whatever reason, they just don’t get it. And for whatever reason, with very few exceptions, they don’t seem to want to get it.

But at this rate, the overwhelming number of news stories, legions of outraged citizens, and the Solar Bus will soon be rolling over these dinosaurs.

And if that politics thing doesn’t work out for Chris, maybe he can get a job selling cars.

[EFerrari]

28. Gary, I just got a 4 page pamphlet called "Ballot Access"

and I was so excited to open it! Cool, yet another group working the issue ---

but, no. It was about getting candidates ON ballots, not about getting ballots counted. Not a word.

It was actually creepy.

:hug:

[BeFree]

29. Crank up that bus!

Good going Gary, and thanks for the rant. I could have written something similar myself (on another issue with a BIG group).

Your efforts are well noted, I'm sure. Spreading the word about how the very basis of democracy is being stolen is the right thing and eventually everyone who is anyone will agree with you.

[Amaryllis]

30. YOu wouldn;t happen to mean MoveOn, would you?

[garybeck]

38. that was my guess too.

[3ringcircus]

31. you are not alone!

I have been to dfa first organizing meetings here and tried to bring this up, some agreed but everyone comes with their own agenda.needless to say, thanks to DU i have compiled booklets and with help from all of the research done here and links will go at the ungodly hour of 8:oo am next monday to appear before local elections board to make my plea to hand count. I have not prepared any kind of speech and jus t hope to get them to listen and take my booklets and perhaps read some of the evidence. There are so many problems and I have decided that as much as i hate the war and EVERYTHING else I needed to focus on what i saw as the most important and go to the people that can change that. Other people in my state went to our D gov. and he seemed not interested. Maybe I can
make a difference in my county, maybe you can make a difference in yours. Alot of other good things are going on here. we have a viet vet running against Wamp for house rep. and as time gets closer I will try to help with that. We have each other and God knows I would not be sane had I not found you all after stolen election 2004. Andy Stevenson and Truth is all and the whole group of you have done soooo much you may not even be aware of. I am not the only silent partner out here for you I am sure. I do not post here a lot but I read here Like crazy and I have to tell you, you people here have totally saved my sanity (that I am so alone feeling after the 'morals selection'} and have given me a direction and literally spoon-fed me some ideas and given me the courage to try to speak out and change something. Thank you for not deleting before posting.

[newyawker99]

34. Hi 3ringcircus!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[3ringcircus]

44. Thanks!

[nicknameless]

32. I wonder when Markos of Daily Kos will get a clue about election fraud.

When asked on the Stephen Colbert Show about whether or not he thought Dems could win in '06, his response was something about Dems needing to stand for something instead of waiting around for the rethugs to implode. As though that's the reason for all the Dem "losses" in recent election years. Not a word about election fraud. Shouldn't he know better?!

Arrgh!!! :grr: :banghead:


(The clip of the interview is on CrooksAndLiars.com)

[garybeck]

39. I would like to

I would like to identify the KEY people and organizations that are not recognizing the problem and organize a concerted effort to convince them the problem is real.

I'd start the list with:

Markos of Daily Kos
MoveOn
DFA
Democratic Party
Al Franken
George Soros
Howard Dean
CBS news

I believe that if we organized a plan we could be effective. Something like a petition with a lot of signatures. It would open with a personal letter written to the folks who are in a position of influence but are not focusing on the issue, and a plea to look at the facts concerning the subject. Included would be a primer, focusing on the objective facts, and more on the present and future, rather than whether or not 2004 was stolen. I would use the term "electronic voting machine controversy" rather than "election fraud". This is a back burner project for me but if someone jumped on board the Solar Bus to help it would push it to the front burner.

and if we do the petition thing, we print out each signature on a separate piece of paper, with the letter printed out in full. that way, 1,000 signatures is a big heavy thing to deliver, rather than 10 pieces of paper with a bunch of signatures on it.

[3ringcircus]

41. I just got back from my meeting

with local election commissioners. They gave me 40 min approx. and asked lots of questions, took copies of my hand-outs and 1 even took abumper sticker, Stalin quote-who counts the votes decide everything! told me they are not sure if we need a referendum for hand counting,told me to build a following with signatures ect. Thet thanked me commended my passion and commitment. one repub comm. even said he would like to have someone with my passion working for him anytime! Said they hope to see me again and keep working. all had my phone # and asked if they could call me and local paper was there and took a booklet, the woman taking the minutes asked for one to enter into minutes! They had a paper for me to sign in when I got there and it had a space to write in who you work for or represent and I wrote in The People! I didnt sleep much last night I was so nervous so I turned on c-span at 1100 and there was mark crispen miller! talk about inspiration! what a presentation he gave, so of course I stole from him and went in tday saying this is the whole ballgame! I looked each one in the eye and said 'You don't get to choose' all around the table ...and 'I don't get to choose! Diebold chooses. and who will buy them next time!' They all listened, no one said 'sore loser' My letter to the editor was printed in yesterdays paper and the election Atty pointed that out to then and I pointed out it was censured- they didnt print the Declaration of Independence that was a part of it ! Well I am excited and am on the lookout for more opportunities!

[garybeck]

42. great story. where r u?

and if you need help supplying those folks with followup info, lemme know. I can give you a source disk for a CDROM with videos and documents on it, and you can make a copy for each of them.

[3ringcircus]

43. I am in chattanooga

Are you talking about the solarbus disc? I did give them that. I hope they use it! Also after the meeting the y wanted me to watch a demonstration of the diebold accu-scan. While the election worker was showing me this several election poll workers came in for a class for up coming election. They tried to tell me not to worry- we have paper ballots and we can hand count if a problem arises.Ha!
got the guy in charge to admit that recounts are simply ran back thru the machine! it was beautiful! Yes, I need help! I am in waaay over my head. But I am determined to keep taking the steps. Just wish I would have thot of this approach sooner. It was over a year ago I walked into my first DFA meeting only to be disapointed. but those contacts have given me new contacts and that has given me a lot of info. I will definately be back here asking for help. It was on this forum that I got the idea to go straight for the election atty! and of course he said he was concerned about the integrity of the vote and he said I was the ONLY person to contact him about this. Now I need to drum up the support....thats the hard part. Everyone is at the game or watching Idol or shopping! Thanks,Garybeck

[3ringcircus]

48. bull___article -one-sided

most of the people he quotes were NOT at that meeting and he gives a site online to check that I DID NOT site and NONE of the ones I used! Everyone e-mail this guy!

Tuesday, April 11, 2001



Resident pushes for counting ballots by hand


By Michael Davis Staff Writer

A xxxxxx Mountain woman told Hamilton County election commissioners Monday that she is concerned about the accuracy of vote tabulation by machines and wants ballots counted by hand.

xxxxxxxx acknowledged hand-counting could take days or even weeks, but she said it would be the most accurate way to tabulate votes.

"I would like to see us make national news and hand-count our ballots like they’re supposed to be," Mrs. xxxxxx said. State Election Coordinator Brook Thompson said Tennessee has used machines to count votes for many years. While the practice is rare, he said votes are hand-counted in some cases, such as when absentee or provisional ballots are used.

"There’s a reason voting machines were invented," he said. "I understand that people have concerns with voting equipment, but I don’t think the hand count of ballots is the answer."

Mrs.xxxxx distributed packets titled "Who’s Counting Our Votes?" which were full of information and news stories about voting machine concerns.

The Hamilton County Election Commission has used Diebold optical scan voting machines without problems for several years, county Election Administrator Bud Knowles has said. The county is expected to begin using touch-screen machines for handicapped voters in the Aug. 3 state and federal primaries in accordance with the Help America Vote Act of 2002, which was implemented to reform elections after the contested 2000 presidential election.

Republican Commissioner Mike Walden thanked Mrs. xxxxx for speaking to commissioners, but he said the body simply follows the law on conducting elections.

Democratic Commissioner Linda Morris-Avila said after the meeting that, while Mrs.xxxxx made some good points, she was unsure about the feasibility of hand-counting.

"This is the high-tech age now, and hand-counting is a little bit outdated," she said.

Dan Seligson, editor of electionline.org, a Web site offering information on election reform, said there are few areas in America where officials still hand-count ballots.

"It’s just really small places that don’t have any practical reason to have a voting machine," he said.

E-mail Michael Davis at [e-mail] ON THE WEB To learn more about the Hamilton County Election Commission, log on to elect.hamiltontn.gov/

[garybeck]

49. welcome to the (media) machine

I've had a number of articles written about me or work I've done. I've found that virtually every time, the writer takes our conversation, and from it, they simply make up quotes and attribute them to me. It's more like a historical novel than a documentary. It's annoying though, I would think that if they put quotation marks around some words, their journalistic training would implore them to only put words in there that were actually said. But that is not the case. they just make it up. I guess that's what they teach you in journalism school - just get a "feel" for the story and then make it up.

But in worse cases, they distort facts, add in things that aren't true, and change the "feel".. that's even worse, but it is par for the course in our "industry". sometimes the press serves to cover the truth and not reveal it.

when this happens, see if you can write a response.

keep up the good work.

[nicknameless]

45. Great job!!! Good on you!

And welcome to DU! :toast:

[3ringcircus]

52. Thank You!

[nicknameless]

46. Sounds like the League of Women Voters needs to be added to your list.

At least they were quick to chide McPherson for his voter-purging database.

[Peace Patriot]

33. Getting the election reform "blank stare" from people who should know

better.

Write them off. They are corrupt. Find people who aren't.

Really. There is no other explanation for it--and no excuse for it, by someone in his position.

GaryBeck, you are a wonder! Know this: I love you!

:loveya: :applause: :hug: :hug: :grouphug: :hug: :hug: :applause: :loveya:

[emlev]

35. Possible next steps

Thanks for your efforts to reach DFA, GaryBeck. What a frustrating story!

It occurs to me that going back to the two people who responded to you well might be useful, asking if they've had a chance to look at the materials, asking for their input on how to get the org nationally to take on the issue, that sort of thing.

Also, if some state groups are working on the issue, maybe pressure from them on the national would be more effective than pressure from an "outsider" like you.

It seems like it would be good to get some clarity on the hierarchy of National and where Chris fits in, who else there might be to talk to, etc.

Or here's a small town way to do it: find out who Chris's friends and family members are, and see if you can get anywhere with them. Maybe there's someone else in his life he'll listen to...

emlev

[garybeck]

40. State groups in Vermont

that's the problem. There are none. I am IT. I've been trying to get people involved but it's an uphill battle. that's why I ended up in the DFA national office. looking for some help. We have a small group here now (see http://solarbus.org/vtvoters) but not enough warm bodies to accomplish anything.

[emlev]

47. It only takes one warm body to accomplish lots

you're my proof!

[galloglas]

50. Learning Curve??

Gary,

I sent you an email in February asking for input about the inability to get public visibility on Election Reform.

My theory is that the elections were "gamed" starting in the late 1970s (minimum), and part of it was knowing how to handle the "ER People", keeping us safely in our "tinfoil hats" and unaligned with a majority who would go for HCPBs for a myriad of reasons other than the fraud we see.

You replied:

Personally I think it's all because of the media. The people will respond to whatever is discussed on the news. If it's Terry Schiavo, they'll write letters to their congressmen, whatever. Our "issue" has been ignored mocked in the media. Even though there is support for it, it's not enough because it never gets discussed and validated in the media.

If the media picked this up it would become a real issue overnight.

Gary

Today you ask:

Tell me, is it obvious to others that you have to have confidence in the election system if you want the candidates you support to have a chance of winning? Is it obvious to others that he's putting the cart before the horse?

I don't know. But it's depressing and angering to me that an organization that calls itself "Democracy for America" is not concerned with democracy. I do acknowledge that the other fellow there seemed much more geniune and also very interested in the problem. But Chris isn't, and unfortunately he seems to be pulling a lot of the strings there.

I know many people have been wondering why DFA has been pretty silent on this issue and I might have just found the answer. So there you go.

....

I thought about deleting this before posting. I thought about suggesting that everyone print this post out and send it to Chris in the mail. Maybe he would take his head out of the sand. But I don't want to harrass Chris, and he didn't really strike me as the type of person eager to listen to people's views. He seemed to have it all figured out and he doesn't need anyone's input. I don't want to burn any bridges with an organization that I had a lot of respect for, and I thought had potential to move mountains. But tonight's experience saddened me and I don't see any reason to waste any time with them anymore.

GB, (the solar bus guy)


Are you now seeing who the real "Enemy of the People" is?


No person, no party, no power who cooperates with our sham electoral system is innocent. No one inside that system, who does oppose it, goes untargeted.

Power corrupts. Total power corrupts totally. And any power not resting with the people is corrupt.

If one is not part of the solution, one is part of the problem.

The many thousands who marched into the streets this weekend understand that... why can't we?


Phil

[garybeck]

51. I guess my point is

the media is still more to blame. if they were giving this the coverage that it deserves, organizations like moveon and dfa would have it as their #1 issue.

[autorank]

53. Great rant!!! It's bad to get betrayed, but by "our own" is unbearable...

You are such a courteous and gracious person...I enjoyed the rant.

btw, you never need to apologize to me misspellings :evilgrin:

[jen4clark]

54. Mark Crispin Miller

discusses this in his book, Fooled Again: How the Right Stole the 2004 Election & Why They'll Steal the Next One Too.

Says that there has always been election fraud, and Dems have benefited in the past so don't want to make it an issue. What they are missing is the scale which is possible now with e-voting. Says they are in total denial - not only about difference in election fraud now vs. the past, but also about the agenda/beliefs of the Fundamentalists who now control the Repub party.

You can watch his appearance on C-Span2. A MUST watch video, imo:

BookTV - C-Span2, Mark Crispin Miller, April 9, 2006.


As far as the young DFA guy, my first thought was "plant."

Thank you for all your work on this garybeck. A worthy rant.

[3ringcircus]

55. I am new here so....

was on your other thread but it got too hot for me. a little help from you please if I could impose upon you. Tomorrow I get 15 minutes on local talk radio to follow up my meeting with council the other day making my case for hand counts.. host saw write up in paper and is going to let me make my case. I am nervous as hell and could use some pointers, am taking article about Ion Sancho and would like your expert advice. I didnt want to ask on that thread....get my head chewed off! hope its ok on this thread! ignore if its not.....Thank you

[nicknameless]

59. Good luck!

I hope you'll post about your talk radio experience.

:hi:

[Cos]

56. Chris, DFA, and election reform - don't give up

I'm pretty sure I know which Chris you mean, and if so, I know him. He doesn't head DFA, he's the political director (which is one of the top roles, but doesn't put him completely in charge). And yes, he is young, and I think I recognize the speaking style you're describing... and I think I can imagine what the conversation was like. It sounds like it was really mishandled, but I think you both misunderstood each other.

Election reform is one of the top issues DFA hears about from its local and regional groups all the time. You may have encountered a few staff people who aren't deeply familiar with it, but I doubt you were bringing in something that was entirely new to the organization. Unfortunately, there's a dynamic that sets in when an issue gets pushed repeatedly: a desire by those being constantly lobbied to consider things without having quick answers for people who do the pushing. I think what happened is, he came off as not caring about this (which I don't think is true), which caused you to come off as overzealous, which caused him to react by trying to put you off because you seemed (in his perception) to be trying to push him to make a decision right then and there and he wasn't going to. I don't think Chris handles things like this well at all, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about election reform.

The main thing to understand about DFA is that they really really are a grassroots organization. Unlike, say, MoveOn, where decisions come from the top down, DFA is driven more by its local groups than by the top. DFA national is sometimes a bit inscrutable and sometimes we in the local groups get frustrated or wish we knew more about how they make their decisions, but the bottom line is that we drive the organization. For example, consider candidate endorsements: DFA will absolutely not ever endorse a candidate unless the local DFA group has already endorsed that candidate first. And even then, they'll actually call up the local group's organizers by phone, or email them individually, to collect information and opinions, before making their decision.

If you want DFA to do more, or different, things about election reform, don't give up just because you feel like you were unable to convince Chris to take you seriously (and remember, chances are he's already heard about the things you wanted to tell him). Going into their office and giving materials to people working there was very useful and could have an impact. Now get involved in your local group more. If lots local groups ask DFA to work on something, DFA will do it. More to the point, local groups can just act, without waiting for a decision from national. Just like with the Dean campaign, many of the big powerful ideas and many of the most useful tactics and materials, came from local groups. National headquarters saw what they did and promoted and shared it.

[sadjonny]

57. Electronics, Digitized Data, Networks - destroyed my right to vote

I don't need to be no diplomat, or talk to no fucking
diplomats.  This isn't negotiable. Our elections are FUCKED

All these fucking bills that allow electronics, digitized
data, and networks in our election system are fucking shit,
and the people that proclaim they are good, and approve them
to be used are YOUR AND MY ENEMY!

The only thing that is going to fix this fuckin problem is a
fucking straight up sledge hammer revolution.

So now you can't protest in the streets without getting locked
up.
You can't get the fucking media to publicise it.
You can't get your local fucking precint leaders to fix it.

Don't you get it?!

Good fucking luck cleaning up this fucking administrations
corruption.
How can you get a house majority when this fucking shit is
going on!?

Enjoy your fucking police state.
Enjoy your tapped phones and tcpip traffic.
Enjoy your expensive gas.
Enjoy your prison planet.  

SCORCHED EARTH.  


After 2006, perhaps it will finally be enough for you too!
I HAVE NO FUCKING REASON TO VOTE ANYMORE SINCE IT CAN NOT BE
FUCKING VALIDATED!!!!!

[galloglas]

58. To Sadjonny

In twelve posts, you have figured out what all the others haven't understood in thousands.
My hat's off to you. Bravo!

You asked, "Don't you get it?!"

Well, my friend, there are at least two of us who do. And, you are the other one.


You said:

Enjoy your fucking police state.
Enjoy your tapped phones and tcpip traffic.
Enjoy your expensive gas.
Enjoy your prison planet.

SCORCHED EARTH.

I say, "Remember Ireland!"

It started in 1169 A.D.; it continues today; it will last as long as the Earth does.

GWB is a direct descendant of Little Billy the Conqueror, and the rest of that brood of Sasanach spawn. To Hell with them all. And the Devil take both the hindmost, and all collaborators!

Peace be upon your house.