ChicagoTrib mentions Sequoia probs, Why Holt paper record=false confidence

[Land Shark]

The current links for April 7 articles includes a Chicago Tribune article of April 7 broadly making fun of the "leftist conspiracy theory" re Sequoia.

Buried in the article, it says:

"The "ultimate protection," Neal said, is a paper record created for every vote cast. Cook County Clerk David Orr, who attended the hearing but was not among the speakers, agreed.

"There are so many ways to protect the vote," Orr said. "Part of the reason we have this paper trail is if ... you had 20 people in our office and 20 people at Sequoia who formed some sort of conspiracy, as long as you have that paper trail it wouldn't even matter. You could audit it.""
<http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-060407voting,1,5791216.story?coll=chi-news-hed>

THIS POINTS TO WHY A PAPER RECORD REQUIREMENT COMBINED WITH A WORSE THAN ANEMIC AUDIT FEATURE IS SO DARN DANGEROUS IN TERMS OF ITS ABILITY TO CREATE FALSE CONFIDENCE.

This quote, from a major elected official, is truly whacked because he expressly says that 20 people conspiring at Sequioa (presumably tampering with source code) could be stopped by a paper trail audit. That's utter bull, unless the vendor-based group of people are extremely dumb in their techniques.

Putting into the Holt bill a provision specifying the method of EAC audit (2% or more precinct sampling) simply telegraphs to cheaters how to cheat and not get caught.

It's that simple folks. Any potential cheater who thinks about it will know how to cheat and have it evade detection by the Lame Holt Bill audit provisions. Any potential election official will know how to hide their mistakes, and can deny any citizen audits by reciting the deceptively long list of tests, certifications and audits already performed....

[Trevelyan]

1. Good idea. I can't find my Holt petition link but maybe some kind DUer

is more organized. We need to support any Congresscritter who is on this and Holt had another petition before the 2004 "election" so he deserves all our support.

[BeFree]

2. Holt bill does not end the problem

Indeed, it just opens up a whole 'nuther can of worms.

The solution to the problem will arrive when the people take matters into their own hands and institute a citizens recount/audit of the paper ballots.

As an example look at the consortium that recounted the ballots in Florida post 2000. They determined that Gore won the election then and there.

What we need to be organizing is a proper and legally certified people's recount; one which kicks in the moment the polls close. It is well known that most states have a canvass a week after the election day, wherein official certify the count. We need to be at that canvass to compare their machine counts with the people's hand counts.

It will be: Democracy In Action.

[kster]

3. kick.nt

[FogerRox]

4. KNR

DUDE

[Wilms]

5. LS, what would you recommend?

A larger audit?

I've generally appreciated 550, though the audit provision has always seemed weak.

Do you think it's better to drop the bill entirely?

[Land Shark]

6. an amendment to say that the paper records would be total

public records after any audit by the EAC or election contest is over, that way in a few jurisdictions a more proper audit might occur.

the EAC has 22 employees. How it is supposed to announce all these precincts within 24 hours and fan out over all 50 states to do these audits, i don't quite know. There is supposed to be contracting, to be sure. It will have to handle nationwide audits within a short time frame. It's not quite clear how that will work, given that contracting is exactly the problem that we have with vendors, and the contract relationship can be a control relationship, depending on the terms. We don't have a copy of a proposed contract for audits, but that document would be, in effect, the "law" as between the EAC and the contract auditor.

[Wilms]

7. 2% is probably WAY too small.

I agree.

If Holt can't get tougher with that, I'd recommend he drop the auditing component...perhaps look to a Senator to propose campanion legislation leading that charge.

Contracting is a huge problem. I agree with that as well. But it would be possible (though not a slam dunk) to randomly choose ahead of time and have an auditor walk into a BoE's office while they're still doing the original count and announce that it's going to be a long night.

They could bring coffee and donuts, or better yet...

[Land Shark]

8. that picture looks great, even though i have to stay away from cheese!

[Bill Bored]

9. See this post about that!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=421638&mesg_id=421713