Has anyone read "Fooled Again," by Mark Crispin Miller

[geiger]

I'm listening to his chilling account of why he thinks the last two Presidential elections were stolen, and how the Republicans justify this stuff in their heads.

He, evidently, has compiled the evidence that shows how the elections were indeed tampered with. Kerry says that his colleagues on the Hill are in denial.

[kaygore]

1. "Kerry says"?????????

Then why did he just give up and not fight.

Of course the elections were stolen!!!! I was there in Florida and saw it first hand as did friends in Ohio!

Give me a break! This is very old news and like a cancer, the means for stealing the elections are spreading.

How do you think they keep all those Republicans in line?????

Why do you think so many Democrats pander?????

[kaygore]

2. It's the elephant in the living room!

To answer my own questions.

[geiger]

3. It's all very baffling

the point this author is making, however, is that R's justify their actions because they truly believe their enemy to be evil, and that they have to use the tactics they paranoidly think D's would use to defend themselves. It's insidious.

I am sick to death of our do-nothing representatives. Election fraud is not new, true, but the level of bold justification and absolute corruption is over the top on so many levels, it's sickening.

[ginnyinWI]

13. He made some good points, if a bit hyperbolic

I mean, yes the Rel. Right is active, but it's probably not the whole story, and it seems like he's trying to make them the sole Evil Villan in the story. There is also Big Money, for instance.

He was long on what the problems we face are, and short on what to do about it! Just "work harder" to make our elections fair...kind of makes you feel like giving up!

This country is swinging toward extremes politically right now, but as MCM said, we're just in one of those unfortunate cycles. We'll get back on track eventually. It's just a matter of how long it will take for a majority of people to wake up to what's happening with our elections.

Isn't it a state by state problem, when it comes down to actually solving the problem? We can have national information campaigns, but each state is in charge of its own elections.

[Lifelong Protester]

4. I'm listening to him talk on CSPAN now..

as no doubt you are, and I have not read the book. However, what I hear is more than chilling. Keep your passport ready, it there is anywhere to go after Armageddon (sp?)

[Stevepol]

6. The book is about as thorough as you can be with a subject

that has a million nuances. Miller mentions just about all the right things in the book and covers a lot of other things like, for instance, the reasons that Repubs can cheat on this scale and justify it to themselves.

He's also realistic. There are a lot of Repubs who want fair elections. In fact, a lot of real Repubs didn't vote for * in 04 and would not vote for any Neo-Con variety Repub in 08.

I personally wish he hadn't gotten into the JFK assassination stuff in his talk. It makes him sound like a conspiracy theorist when that's the last thing he is. The facts are all on the side of Kerry in 04 and if the facts are ALL on your side, you're not a conspiracy theorist. But I think at the moment (not having read any of the boooks he recommended) that Oswal was the lone assassin. Miller thinks the mafia was in on the assassination and in on Sirhan Sirhan's killing of RFK as well. That's possible, but I just wish he'd kept that particular belief to himself for the time being.

Everything else I agree with him on, and I think his book is ESSENTIAL reading.

[EFerrari]

5. The book is a work of scholarship and we should all own it.

I keep losing my copy to theiving friends. It will twist you up. :hi:

[livvy]

8. Me, too! Mine is on the lam right now....time to track it down. n/t

[livvy]

7. I have. It's excellent!

He pretty much covers all aspects of the election. I thought I knew most of what went on, but I learned a lot from his book.

[Berry Cool]

9. I just bought it yesterday

and look forward to reading it...even if it's going to make me cringe...

[garybeck]

10. shameless ad; get it from the Election Justice Center

http://www.solarbus.org/store/election.shtml

[livvy]

11. Yup, a great idea! It worked for me! n/t

[jen4clark]

12. Haven't read the book

But saw MCM on C-Span2 last night. I posted this on a GDP thread: we will not win 2006 unless we fix these elections - but it's sinking fast and maybe more will see it here...
~~~~

To find local groups fighting for election integrity go to VoteTrustUSA. Click the "Get Involved" link at top of page and down on the right States are listed. Click your state, contact the groups/people, and get involved!

Watched Mark Crispin Miller on C-Span2 last night. Pretty scary what we're up against, and it's going to take ALL of us getting involved. What people are finally figuring out is this isn't a Dem vs Repub issue. This is about the takeover of the Repub party by the Fundies who are essentially on a suicide mission - i.e. "End of Times" is coming and they truly believe it is up to them to help it along. No need to worry about deficits, the environment, etc. Mark covers all this in his latest book, Fooled Again - How the Right Stole the 2004 Election & Why They'll Steal The Next One Too. These people see us as the enemy who must be defeated at any and all costs and will stop at nothing - they're literally pathological and truly believe in what they're doing.

Here's a snip from a transcript of a talk Mark gave in Portland, November 2005:

...Understand that this is a theocratic movement. It is not just a bunch of corporations, that know better, slyly manipulating the pieties of the masses. That is a leftist fallacy. Because we are talking about the energetic, political participation of a number of extremely right wing billionaires with enormous clout, people like Richard Mellon Scaif, and Howard Ahmanson. These are people who are extraordinarily active and productive on the political front and they make Soros look like a piper. They spent far more money that he does. They spend it on propaganda; they spend it on political issues. Howard Ahmanson is the motive force behind the schism in the Episcopalian Church. He supports the Discovery Institute which is behind the spread of Intelligent Design. So to say there is religion over here and there are corporations over here is a mistake. It's not that simple because there are points of convergence.


What we have here is a movement intent on turning the United States into a Christian republic. Now they often say that the United States is a Christian republic, then you say to them, "As a matter of fact, it isn't." Look at say the First Amendment, look at Article 6 which forbids a religious test for office holders, look at everything the framers ever said on the subject. Well they don't want to hear that so they say, "Well, it's a Christian republic." Does this sound familiar? "Mr. President, there is no evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq." "0h yeah? there is too." "Go back and find it." "Oh, wait. Here it is, here it is." See? We think they are lying through their teeth, but please believe me that Cheney still believes there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. If it were only lying, or or if it was only machiavellian manipulation, I promise you we would be better off than we are right now. What we are dealing with is pathological. You tell them, "Hey, there is no evidence for intelligent design," and they say "oh yes there is." They proclaim that there is. There is no evidence that abstainance based sex education does anything except raise pregnancy rates and raise rates of sexually transmitted diseases. They say "Nope...no..." Because it's faith based...

Anyone who needs some basic information on what we're facing as far as elections, start out with "The Companies" and the "Technology" Chapters at Who's Counting.

Also, keep current with BradBlog - he's been at the forefront of this since Nov. '04. Also, John Gideon of VoteTrustUSA posts "Daily Voting News" daily at BradBlog.

MCM said it's probably too late to fix the election system for Nov. but more and more people are becoming aware that we've got serious problems so eventually it will be exposed, but it's up to us.