Paper Trails: Ballots vs. Receipts

[Wilms]

Paper Trails: Ballots vs. Receipts

Roy Lipscomb, [e-mail]

Version 5.4, 4/12/05

Latest version at http://e-grapevine.org/papertrail.htm


Terminology

Advantages: Paper Ballot vs. Paper Receipt

Misconceptions


snip

http://pages.ripco.net/~lipscomb/papertrail.htm

[Peace Patriot]

1. Short and sweet: A paper ballot is a document with legal standing that

takes precedence over Bushite-controlled electronic voting machines in any audit/recount (if you can get an audit/recount). A paper "trail" does not.

But the best solution is to get rid of the Bushite-controlled electronic voting machines and central tabulators, clean house of all the corrupt, collusive election officials, and start over, with paper ballots handcounted at the precinct level, so that we can start electing representatives who will protect our right to vote, and who will help us retrieve our democracy from the corporate fascists and war profiteers who have taken it over.

--------------------------------------------

SOME RESOURCES FOR AMERICAN REVOLUTION II:

Hopeful signs - latest news:

California voters sue the state over Diebold:
www.VoterAction.org--just announced--is suing the state of California and 18 Calif county registrars on behalf of 25 California voter/plaintiffs, on the illegal Diebold "certification" by Schwarzenegger appointee Bruce McPherson.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2180496

Maryland rejects Diebold:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x418263

Florida - anti-trust accusations against Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia, re: heroic Florida election official Ion Sancho:
(FLA AG subpoenas the companies)
http://www.computerworld.com/governmenttopics/government/legalissues/story/0,10801,110192,00.html
http://www.tbo.com/news/politics/MGBKSY8W8LE.html
(info & discussion)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2183630

Utah county clerk fights back!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x419226

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More resources for American Revolution II:

www.votersunite.org (MythBreakers - easy primer on electronic voting--one of the myths is that HAVA requires electronic voting; it does not.)
www.UScountvotes.org (statistical monitoring of '06 and '08 elections--they need donations)


(Activist sites with links to state activist groups or info)
www.votetrustusa.org (news of this great movement from around the country)
www.votersunited.org (good general info, and state links)
www.verifiedvoting.org (great activist site)
www.solarbus.org/election/index.shtml (fab compendium of all election info)

www.freepress.org (devoted to election reform)
www.bradblog.com (also great, and devoted to election reform)
www.TruthIsAll.net (analysis of the 2004 election)* :patriot: :applause: :patriot:
www.votepa.us (well-organized local group of citizen activists in Pennsylvania, where important legal issues are at stake, including state's rights over election systems)
Provisions of the PA lawsuit:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x423739

The Voter Confidence Resolution
http://tinyurl.com/rlnr2 (“We Do Not Consent”)
http://guvwurld.blogspot.com (GuvWurld blog main page)
http://tinyurl.com/amryg (Voter Confidence Resolution

www.debrabowen.com (Calif Senator running for Sec of State to reform election system)
www.johnbonifaz.com (running for Massachusetts Sec of State on strong election reform and antiwar platform)

*Some tributes to TruthIsAll, who is very ill:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x417007
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x417231
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x675477

Congressional bills:

Russ Holt's HR 550 requires a real paper ballot, bans secret software in "voting machines", and has more than 170 co-sponsors, but the audit required is too weak, it promotes electronic voting and centralized power, and the secret software might be permitted to continue in the central tabulators (the bill is not clear). To sign the HR 550 petition: http://www.rushholt.com/petition.html
At lot of discussion at DU of the loopholes/pitfalls in HR 550:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x422926
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x421136
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=422967&mesg_id=422967
(Note: Senate Bill-SB 330 and House-HR704 simply require a "voter verified paper audit trail" (VVPAT), which may be best for the moment.)


Also of interest:

Bob Koehler (-- four recent election reform initiatives in Ohio, predicted to win by 60/40 votes, flipped over, on election day, into 60/40 LOSSES!--the biggest flipover we've seen yet; the election theft machines and their masters are now dictating election policy!)
www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?file=20051124ctnbk-a.txt&catid=1824&code=ctnbk

Bob Koehler's latest: "Take this box and stuff it" (3/16/06)
http://commonwonders.com/archives/col337.htm

Amaryllis (Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia lavish lobbying of election officials - Beverly Hilton, Aug. '05)
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x380340

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Throw Diebold, ES&S and ALL election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' NOW!

:think: :patriot: :woohoo: :patriot: :think:

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"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it." --Thomas Jefferson, The Declaration of Independence

[Boredtodeath]

2. Is Ion Sancho still a hero?

Diebold Election Systems said Friday that it will sell voting machines to Leon County, enabling the county that includes the state capital to comply with federal voting law.

The county missed a Jan. 1 deadline to meet federal requirements for having voting equipment that lets the disabled vote without help.

Click Here
Leon County Elections Supervisor Ion Sancho had a deal for the equipment last year with Diebold.

But the subsidiary of Diebold Inc. and the county disagreed about whether Diebold software could be used with other equipment, leading the deal to fall apart.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-leon1506apr15,0,711794.story?coll=orl-news-headlines-state

I'm just curious........

[Wilms]

3. I'll give him a pass.

Sue Cobb, the FL SoS, behaved like a thug.

But Leon County now goes from using the more-hackable OpScan to the more-riggable DRE. Not that the OpScan paper is worth much given FL law.

[Amaryllis]

4. Given FL law, Ion doesn't have much wiggle room. The three main

vendors is like choosing between cyanide, aresenic, and ...some other poison. Dont know my poisons that well.

[Boredtodeath]

5. But WE lost badly

Because WE got beat to hell and Diebold is STILL doing business in Florida AND everywhere else.

So, tell me, what have we won? Frankly, the way I see it, we lost ground on this one. Before Bev Harris there WAS a piece a paper in Leon County, Florida - post Bev Harris there isn't one.

Not one county, precinct, state or elections office has decertified these machines and Ion Sancho almost lost his job.

And on top of all that, Leon County moved from OpScan to DRE voting.

I'd say we're going backward.

[Wilms]

7. I hear you, BTD.

And, actually, it gets a little worse.

PA has decertified Diebold OpScans forceing DRE's in some jurisdictions there. But then, there's a lawsuit. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x423739

On the positive side, it forced CA's SoS to send Diebold back to the ITA, and it's software to the CA VSTAAB group which found additional problems, and provided ammunition for a lawsuit there.

There are Ballot Definition Setting exploits that could have been demonstrated without Sancho getting into trouble with Diebold and the FL SoS. Same in Utah. I wish Sancho had been aware of that and not have involved himself otherwise.

I'm hoping, that in the long run, we're better off.

But, I hear you, BTD.

[Boredtodeath]

15. It's truly a shame

that she continues to do more damage than good.

[Kelvin Mace]

17. Hey, we got Diebold out of NC

We haven't lost all the battles.

They are under siege in Maryland (though DEMOCRATS are helping them). Questions have been raised in GA. CA is not over yet.

The war continues...

[Stevepol]

12. Peace Patriot I love your posts. Keep posting this one with all the refs.

There are constantly new people coming DU's way who aren't aware of all the fx and the work that's been done on the issue. All the links on your post are very helpful for them.

I really appreciate all you've done and are doing, and I'm sure I speak for others. Keep it up and stay well.

[neoblues]

6. Just my sense of things... We're far up that infamous tributary...

without adequate means of propulsion. The boat's too high off the surface to paddle and given the terrible current, getting out and swimming isn't possible. At this rate, though, we're probably going to go down in the tributary's thick brown flow.

I don't see any alternative short of massive public demonstrations demanding an emergency reversion to paper ballots counted by hand. On a positive note, though, it seems to me that the states actually could accomplish the necessary printing and staffing needed; surely there are resources available with instructional information on how to setup a basic electoral process (as these resources are used to arrange elections in countries all over the worls--many without any electoral infrastructure). It could be done.

However, the demand would have to be loud enough and by enough people nationwide, and finally, the demand must be insistent. The biggest problem is that Republicans don't believe the fraud is real (or are happy with it since it strengthens their vote). Still, are there not tens of millions of Democrats? Or don't enough of us believe this is a problem? Or are we simply unable to organize (or do we lack the political will)?

Our situation is more urgent than most realize--or accept. Our economy cannot sustain this kind of debt production and our country may be closer to the breaking point than we know on any number of fronts. As it is, we'll be decades in recovery (if we are able to recover)--every month that this continues is probably several to a dozen more years spent in recovery (our children will be paying on this). It may be too late for the environment too; not that having Democrats in power would be enough to save the world, but it would at least be a start. And so on. We have to stop the damage--to do so we must be elected--to do so we must have a fair electoral process. Simple (and not simple).

[Wilms]

8. I recommend your reply.

I'd like to add, however, that local "public demonstrations demanding an emergency reversion to paper ballots counted by hand" is certainly possible and possibly a better application of energy.

[FogerRox]

9. SOme countys may be able to petition to put a question on the ballot

A Question like, DREs vs OPscans.
NJ Elelction law allows for a petition, with enough signatures, that puts a referendum on ballot. It maybe that most states have a similar provision.

[neoblues]

10. Perhaps more effective and certainly necessary...

Demonstrations that are local/county... state even would certainly be more effective in this instance as it's going to be a relative emergency and one must appeal directly to where the changes will be implemented (and that is local/county and state levels).

If we were talking trying to resolve the whole disenfranchisement issue and obtain, say, an actual Constitutional amendment ensuring citizen's right to vote... then large, national level and directly in D.C. for influencing Congress. However, that would be a several-year approach to hopefully achieve a full and proper voter reform act via Congress. Still, you're right, we need to focus on the individual/local elections offices/organizations to prepare for the upcoming election... if we started now, we might just have time too.

[Wilms]

11. This is along the line of what the Voter Confidence Resolution is about.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x423629


Granted, the fed has done a few ok things, like the Voting Rights Act. So I wouldn't want to dismiss them outright.

But, elections are state matters, and voting systems are often selected by local jurisdictions (of course, though, with state and fed law involved). This makes the politics of the issue a local matter, too.

[neoblues]

18. I Agree. I did, I do, I thought I did... Didn't I?

I thought that's what I was saying. So, in any case, I agree, again.

In order to focus our attention on the most pressing problem and in the most effective way, we cannot forget the local, county/state elections departments**--since that's where things are actually decided and implemented it's obviously going to have to be a high priority. Whatever public rally's, marches or demonstrations will have the most effect on the widest range of localities would be best. Perhaps a national save the vote weekend consisting of public rallies in every possible locality? It has to be of such magnitude and scope that the media won't even be needed to let other people know (being "in their faces" as it were). Given the short time we face and the immediate goal of protecting against fraud; such local focus must be our primary focus. Ergo, I agree.

Later, though, following this election cycle, then I would want to see some real (and serious) activism to press for a proper Federal Voting Rights Act (or better, a related Constitutional amendment). That is, to make bigger, more permanent changes, improvements and corrections to ensure the integrity of future elections, prevent fraud, empower voters and criminalize acts of disenfranchisement and guarantee that the every citizen has a proper chance to have their votes counted. The latter would also involve the requirement that the outcome of the election be decided by those votes, the will of the people; of course that gets complicated by the electoral college (to keep or not to keep that, is another question).

Also, yes, the The Voter Confidence Resolution is a excellent list of reasons, ideals and items to be addressed. How great it would be if it was a description of how things already are instead of either how we thought things once were or how they ought to be. It's so reasonable it seems to me it would be hard to argue against it (don't worry, the Repub types will no doubt find ways to complain, belittle and tear it down as well as smear everyone proposing it... no doubt).

**Boards of Elections, Elections Commission, Department of Elections, Division of Elections, or whatever else they choose to call themselves loca

[Bill Bored]

13. Oh yeah, well this will blow your mind!

Secret-Ballot Receipts and Transparent Integrity - David Chaum
<http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/scc38/1583/meeting_docs_-_020514/P1583%20-%20tg1%20-%2002-01%20-%20Secret-BallotReceipts.pdf>

[Bill Bored]

14. Chaum proposes a REAL receipt.

This Lipscomb guy should know better than to conflate VVPATs with receipts.

[Land Shark]

20. all of these terms are creatures of definition; too many def's

in 50 states, so always got to specify that state and the definition before "playing"

[Bill Bored]

23. Chaum's method not used in ANY state.

Although Brazil was thinking about it. Not sure if they actually implemented it though. You might give it a read and see what you think. It's very interesting! See post 14.

[Cos]

16. problems with these definitions

First of all, I think we should strongly reject the use of the term "receipt" for any of these things. The word "receipt" already has a well accepted meaning that has no place in vote counting: A receipt is something you take with you, that you can use later to prove that a certain transaction took place. Receipts are useless for election integrity or vote counting. Any time we use the word receipt to refer to a ballot or paper audit trail, we will cause confusion and mislead people. When people hear "receipt" they'll think you mean "receipt", and I don't blame them - it's a perfectly sensible assumption for anyone who doesn't follow election reform issues. So don't call any of these things receipts, ever, period.

Secondly, while the term "ballot" when used alone de facto implies a ballot used for the original count, the legal term "ballot of record" actually just means whatever item it is that is presumed to be the "real" vote, whether it's used for the original count or not. If there are problems and a recount is done, the "ballot of record" controls - that is, a count of ballots of record trumps any other count.

Those who say "paper trails are not ballots" are also causing confusion, because paper trails can be "ballots of record" - and indeed, if H.R.550 passes, all paper trails used everywhere in the country will be required to be ballots of record. I understand there's some rhetorical value for people arguing a certain point of view, in saying that paper trails are "not ballots", but it is counterproductive and confusing in many cases, so be careful when using these terms.

So, to summarize:

• receipt - bad word, don't use!
  
• HMPB / hand marked paper ballot - a physical ballot that was directly marked by the voter, by hand
  
• paper trail - any paper record of the votes cast on a computer voting machine
  
• VVPAT / voter verified paper audit trail - a paper trail that the voter can see and verify is correct at the time it is generated
  
• ballot of record - whatever has legal standing as the real ballot, and controls any other counts; could be a VVPAT or a hand marked paper ballot
  
• ballot - not a well defined term, could mean any of the above (except "receipt"); be clear and define what you mean

[Bill Bored]

22. See post 14 please. nt

[kster]

19. KR..nt

[FogerRox]

21. good one-- KNR