Prevailing wisdom: Should we vote absentee or go to the polls?

[babylonsister]

I'm very confused and would like to know what you think. Thanks!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

1. Elections are often called before the absentee ballots are even counted.

So, I'm going with no.

[babylonsister]

3. Even if you live in Diebold country, or somewhere with no paper

trail? Helderheid encouraged people to vote absentee tonight. :shrug:

[TomInTib]

2. 18,181.

You know the rest.

Absentee has a better chance of a true count.

[babylonsister]

4. Hi, Tom and Ms. TiT! I guess that's also my question; what

has the better chance of being counted?

[TomInTib]

5. I have no idea, I think that it is a toss...

I trust nothing, any more.

So I will just sit on my ass and hope for the lesser evil.

[babylonsister]

7. You had both better vote, my friends!

:hi:

[TomInTib]

8. Oh, we will..

Beth works the Precinct.

I do not drive or go far from home, so I will probably mail mine in.

So you can sleep peacefully, R...

We will do our necessary thing.

T..

[ThoughtCriminal]

6. I used early voting ballot in Arizona primary

But rather than mail it in, I dropped it off at the County Recorder's office. The main advantage is avoiding a long wait at the polls. Also, the address on my driver's license does not match my current address (where I'm registered) and because we use a PO Box for utility bills, etc., meeting the new I.D. requirements would be a hassle for us if we vote at the polls.

There is a small risk that trained signature "expert" might reject my ballot if they think that my signature on the ballot envelope does not match the registration signature that they have on file. I don't know the statistics for that. I'm fairly certain that the signature match is made before the envelope is opened, so in theory at least, the verifier does not know how I voted or what precinct I'm from.

[aquart]

9. I'll show up at the polls. I want turnout visible.

But then, I still have my lovely levers. Thank you, slow, argumentative New York!

[acmavm]

10. How many absentee votes went uncounted in the last election? No

one knows the real count. Because if you mail in your vote there's no record. Nothing. And who's to say if it gets counted or not?

I voted absentee in 2004. Won't do it again.

[Peace Patriot]

11. AB votes are not "safer" but AB votes are a PROTEST against their

goddamned rigged electronic voting machines, run by goddamned Bushite corporations, run on goddamned TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code, with virtually no goddamned audit/recount controls!

That's what AB voting is about. BOYCOTTING the MACHINES! BUSTING the MACHINES! THROWING these diabolical machines into 'Boston Harbor' NOW!

If enough people vote AB, we can put sufficient pressure on the corrupt fools who purchased these crapass, extremely insecure and insider hackable voting machines, to FORCE reform NOW. And if we can do that--mount a huge citizen revolt against the machines--we can then tackle all the other ways they steal and suppress our votes. But without TRANSPARENT, VERIFIABLE vote counting--vote counting that everyone can see and understand, and that NO ONE has any SECRET control over--we can't do anything; we have no influence over our government; they can just flip us off, as they are so obviously doing!

AB votes--in addition to being a great way to protest this system, and, if enough people do it, to bring this system down--also provide evidence for election statisticians to compare the PAPER vote against the ELECTRONIC vote (--very important in several studies of the 2004 election--electronic voting favored Bush, always). That PAPER record is important! And, dammit, it's the PRINCIPLE of the thing. Don't touch their machines! Refuse! Protest! Rebel!

Levels of insecurity:

If the option is touchscreens, AB votes provide a better record of your vote--in the case of some touchscreens, the ONLY record. AB voting is much to be preferred over touchscreens. With the optiscans, it's six of one, half dozen of another (optiscans have a ballot), EXCEPT FOR your COOPERATION with Bushite-corporate control of our elections with TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code in ALL the electronic machines, including the optiscans and the central tabulators. So if you want to support payoffs to Bushite corporations* for rigging our elections, and you like having NON-TRANSPARENT, UNVERIFIABLE vote counting, fine, vote on optiscans.

With optiscans, they dump your ballot into a box--thus separating your vote from the evidence of your vote--and they turn your "vote" into a bunch of electrons, which are "sent" to the central tabulator, which is ALSO run on TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code. Many states have NO audit of this paper record (your ballot). The best states--the best!--have only a 1% audit, entirely inadequate in this high speed, invisible environment, and highly manipulable. And recounts are expensive, difficult and extremely rare. Optiscans may provide a slight deterrent effect. That's it. And if they scan your AB vote into these rigged electronics (which some corrupt election officials do), then it has no more security than an optiscan vote.

The only machines I know of that are reliable and unriggable are the old-fashioned lever (mechanical) voting machines--like the ones they have in NY. The Bush Feds are trying every way they can to force NY to get rid of these tried and true mechanical machines and go with Bushite corporations "counting" all the votes electronically with SECRET CODE. If the Bush Feds succeed, NY will become a "red" state, too. One thing follows the other. Florida, Georgia, Minnesota, next California. Wherever Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia go, "surprising," "mystifying," " unexpected" election results start occurring--always favoring Bushites.

We must get rid of these machines! WE MUST!

FLOOD election officials with MOUNTAINS of paper AB votes this fall! BOYCOTT the Machines! Make the electronic machines obsolete! Let them sit idle! DON'T vote on them!

Suggestions: Photocopy your Absentee Ballot. Fill the ballot and the envelope out very carefully (to avoid disqualification). Hand-deliver your ballot to your polling place on election day, or to your registrar's office before the election, or (second best) mail it in registered/return receipt requested, or by Fed Ex. The point is to have a record that it was received (and also of how you voted). Secondly, send a separate letter to your registrar, sec of state and media (if you can), demanding TRANSPARENT vote counting: PAPER BALLOTS, HAND-COUNTED AT THE PRECINCT LEVEL, WITH RESULTS POSTED *BEFORE* ANY ELECTRONICS ARE INVOLVED (the best system) Thirdly (if you can), MONITOR the vote counting--demand to see where the AB votes are kept and how they are counted, and MONITOR all aspects of the election on election day. (One of the benefits of a big AB voting protest will be increased scrutiny on how AB votes are handled. )

To HARUKA3_2000, above: You want to go along with this rotten, corrupt, evil practice--where some election officials disregard the AB votes in favor of the highly riggable electronic votes, and then rush the electronic totals to the war profiteering corporate news monopolies, so they can "call" the election on the rigged totals, and thus forestall challenges, recounts and protests???

NO, NO, NO, *NO*! DO NOT COOPERATE WITH THIS CORRUPTION! FIGHT IT! RALLY YOUR SPIRITS AGAINST IT! PROTEST! WORK TO GET RID OF THOSE CORRUPT OFFICIALS! DO NOT GIVE IN!

Bust the Machines--Vote Absentee this November!

If enough people do it--and many are (it's up to 50% in Los Angeles)--it will be a massive citizen "vote of no confidence" in this rigged system and the evils that it has produced, including 100,000 innocent people slaughtered in Iraq, many people tortured, massive theft, looting of our federal treasury, spying, ripping up the Constitution, destruction of our military, lies, deceit and treachery of every kind. The American people didn't vote for this. I will never believe it. And the evidence is overwhelming that they didn't. This is the work of Tom Delay and Bob Ney--the biggest crooks in the Anthrax Congress--who appropriated nearly $4 billion to corrupt and destroy our election system from one end of the country to the other with Bushite corporations* "counting" all the votes with TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code. That WAS the coup. And we MUST RESIST.

VOTE ABSENTEE! FIGHT BACK!

----------------------------------------

*And they are...

DIEBOLD: Until recently, headed by Wally O'Dell, a Bush-Cheney campaign chair and major fundraiser (a Bush "Pioneer," right up there with Ken Lay), who promised in writing to "deliver Ohio's electoral votes to Bush-Cheney in 2004"; and

ES&S: A spinoff of Diebold (similar computer architecture), initially funded by rightwing billionaire Howard Ahmanson, who also gave one million dollars to the extremist 'christian' Chalcedon Foundation (which touts the death penalty for homosexuals, among other things). Diebold and ES&S have an incestuous relationship; they are run by two brothers, Bob and Todd Urosevich.

These are the people who "counted" 80% of the nation's votes in 2004, under a veil of corporate secrecy.

SEQUOIA: The third major election theft industry player, which hired Republican former Calif Secretary of State Bill Jones, and his chief aide, Alfie Charles, to peddle their machines--in an outstanding example of the highly corrupt practice of "revolving door" employment.

We MUST rid our election system of these Bushite corporations and all SECRET vote counting. VOTE ABSENTEE! Spread the word!

[dusty64]

12. One can not vote

absentee in NY without a documented excuse. I am going to try to use the idiocy of vapor voting as my excuse next cycle and see what happens, I REFUSE to vote on those damn things.......

[fed-up]

13. Absentee so that there are less calls to make on Get Out the Vote day

This is a strategy used by Republicans-the more votes that are cast early means that volunteers that are making phone calls on election day to arrange rides or to remind people to vote have less work to do.

If 50% of a precint has voted via absentee, then callers have half as much work to do to get the rest of the voters off their duff and into the polls on election day.

You can also turn your absentee ballot in at the precint where you regularly vote (on election day) and get a receipt and since the receipts are numbered then your ballot has to be included in the final tally of ballots turned in.




This year I did not vote absentee, but instead requested a paper ballot instead of using the new electronic machines the county just got. The volunteers were confused and finally one dug up a paper ballot and told me to sit in a chair in the hallway which had no privacy and no writing surface. No accomodations were made for those wanting a paper ballot.



edited to add-please respond if you read this, sometimes I wonder if it is worth posting a reply to a topic that is more than 30 minutes old.....

[babylonsister]

15. When I voted in the TX primary, I asked whether the

machines provided a paper trail. The people at the school looked at me like I had two heads.

So, I deduct from the response in this thread that there is no 'prevailing' wisdom on how to vote.

And yes, sometimes it takes longer than 30 minutes for a response, but some of us do/will get back to you.

[flyarm]

14. i have mixed feelings on AB votes...during 2004 we dems in fla

and the dem party were pushing AB voting as a protest of the machines..

we had a very high number of AB...and then after the election we find out the supervisor of elections ..had a huge box of them in her office that were never counted and were never certified..and by the time she found the box..{b]in her office under a desk it was toooooo late to certify them ..don'tcha know!!

boxes of AB votes were found in a church in Orlando that was soaking wet..although it did not rain at anytime around the time of election ..but they were spoiled and could not be read...all in a heavily african american district...and dem district..

and stuff like that was happening all over the state..
my son's vote was not counted when we called and checked to see if our votes were counted..because they arbitrarily said the signature did not match..well it was his signature..but his vote did not get counted..

yes it is paper...but the largest voter turnout in many years had many dems voting early and by absentee ballot..

to me..it was a pre-curser for the steal of the fla election...

they knew ahead of time how many dems were voting early..and how many were voting absentee..so they knew how much they had to steal the election by percentage points..

i was a poll watcher at large..for both early vote and the general..

during early vote..i was guestimating 8 out of 10 voters was democratic..i was keeping a tally..unfortunately the kerry camp took all my notes the night of the general..so i can't give you specific numbers...( and may i suggest anyone poll watching..copy your notes before turning over anything to anyone after an election..i learned the hard way..i had incredible notes..and now do not have them!)

then on general election day..i would overwhelmingly say..the voters in the precinct i worked were 9 out of 10 republican...

i felt on election day..we were duped into voting absentee and early vote...
at our kerry headquarters a huge absentee voting process went on...huge...
i know i worked it..and the kerry filed rep for my area lived with me ..and i helped run the huge headquarters...when the young mans mom died...
we had Pinellas county, bradenton and saratsota run out of our headquarters..

and we spent 2 full months doing absentee ballots...and had an extensive program for absentee ballots..it was i would say 80% of what we did with a huge staff and volunteers from all over the country helping us..
we had a bank of cell phones we would call people..and we had many many volunteers going to peoples homes to pick them up and deliver to supervisors office the day of election...and before hand..

kerry lost our large county by a very small margin...

and i will never ever ever believe he lost it..not by the numbers who were voting early and the numbers of absentee ballots we recieved..
but on the gerneral election day..i got a very sick feeling...

most of the people voting on the machines...were republican...on election day...

and i kept feeling all day..we were duped..

it was not a wealthy area i was poll watching in..it was an area of alot of mobile homes...and low income..

and many of the dems that did come to vote that day ..their names were not in the books..so they had to do provisional ballots..it was a very predominate dem that had to vote by provisional..very few republicans...

i really got soured to the absentee ballot game that went on..and the early vote..

if you want to warn the rethugs how many dems are going to vote..and how many they need to steal the election by ..how better to do it??

we are giving them a total heads up!!

now i am not a mathematician..so i don't know how it was done mathmatically...but i will tell you..i smelled a rat big time ..

from the time of the primary we were doing a big campaign for people to vote absentee .. to protest the machines..but the memo certainly did not go out to republicans! if you get my drift..

all i know is ..the only answer is to stop these machines...but i am not sold now on the absentee ballot protest crap...

i think it helped the republicans know the percentages they needed to steal the election by..

by the number of requests for AB by each party affiliation..

as did early vote..

my only suggestion would be..

if you are going to vote absentee please hand carry it to your supervisors office the day of the general election

and put it in the designated place for absentee ballots...ask before depositing..

do not mail it in ahead of time..

or you are giving the republicans exactly what they want..so they can steal another election.with the percentages they need to make it look close!

fly

[Peace Patriot]

16. When the two alternatives that fascists present you with are BOTH bad,

what do you do? Vote by Absentee Ballot and they may throw a pitcher of water on the box holding those ballots? Or vote on their diabolical election theft equipment, with which they have the capability to easily switch your vote in the central electronic tabulator or in the voting machine itself? With the Absentee Ballot, at least you have a chance of finding the box of wet ballots.

I don't know, flyarm--but I still think that MASSIVE Absentee Ballot voting is the protest we have been waiting for. It needs to be yet more massive than what you were involved in--everybody, or nearly everybody, voting AB.

Think about this. What if, say, the 65% to 70% of Americans who loathe the Bush Junta all vote by AB? How absurd will it be when they are "calling" the election on only 30%-35% of the vote (just the e-vote)?

This absurdity cannot hold. It WILL break the rigged system.

Think about all the minor protests in the 1940s, 1950s and early 1960s, and before, that led up to the massive protests against segregation that erupted in the south in the mid-1960s. Little actions all the way along --individual or small group actions--that built up, over the years, to major action. Those early individuals and small groups were stomped on and oppressed. But their ideas were not. Their ideas grew. AB voting is up to 50% in Los Angeles. If it gets bigger, it busts the system. At the half-way mark, it still hasn't reached critical mass. Give it a bit of a boost and...kapowee!

That's what I'm thinkin.

[flyarm]

17. I TEND TO DISAGREE..

SINCE 2000 WE HAVE HAD THREE ELECTIONS STOLEN IN FLA..how has absentee balloting worked for us so far??

not at all!

and if you are naive like we were in 2004 and thought we could do our protest voting by absentee..or save our vote by absentee...you are in for the same let down we were..and rude awakening..

now i will vote on election day and election day only..they will have no advance notice i am going to vote..and vote dem..

there is no magic bullet ...our votes are being stolen..but if you think absentee is going to preseve your vote..thank again...it will not.

fly