Help Lou Dobbs See the Other Side of "Voter ID" bill

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

CONTACT US
Send your questions and comments to
"Lou Dobbs Tonight."
http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.html?9

Would you help to educate Lou Dobbs about the "voter id" bill?

Could you send him some bullet points on what HR 4844 really is?
I have provided some info but maybe you have some better talking points.

?Would this legislation stop "illegals" from voting, or would it stop more "legal"
citizens from voting?
?Are some of us now "illegal" who didn't used to be?

He keeps saying over and over that this is just a voter id act, its far more than that.

AARP OPPOSES IT

Congress is set to decide new requirements of citizens before
you can go cast your ballot.
These requirements could very well cost you money, time and a lot of effort.
Citizens will have to produce documents that many of us do not have on hand

HR 4844, the Voter ID Act, if it passes in the Senate -
will disenfranchise millions of senior citizen voters in our country.
Most seniors will not have the documentation needed to PROVE that they are citizens.

The American Association of Retired People has actively opposed voter identification
legislation in several states wrote in a letter submitted into the record to congress:
"On behalf of older Americans who have largely shaped the values of our democracy,
we urge great care to ensure that the basic right to vote is not rrampled in an effort to
address unproven allegations of voting issues."
http://www.votetrustusa.org/pdfs/Bills/AARP%5B1%5D.pdf

ITS WAY BEYOND A VOTER ID LAW - HERE'S WHAT IT ENTAILS

'What HR 4844 does is require "government-issued, current and valid photo identification
for which the individual was required to provide proof of United States citizenship as a condition
for the issuance of the identification" -- this is quoting from the text of the bill.

Drivers licenses do not fit this definition because proof of citizenship is not required to obtain a driver's license (there are three states that DO require proof of citizenship but the majority do not).

The only existing document that fits this definition is a passport. In order to get a passport
you need to obtain your state issued birth certification (not a hospital version).
There are fees connected to getting your birth certificate.
Married women might need to provide copies of their marriage license to document their name change
(another cost and more hassle).'
~ Kathy Jackson, Oregon Voters Rights Coalition.

IS THIS A POLL TAX?

Tom Paine Magazine calls HR 4844 the Voter Fraud Fraud.
Lots of detail (at Tom Paine) about why this legislation is so bad.
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/09/20/the_voter_fraud_fraud.php

bruce Schneier, renowned computer security expert is not enthused about Voter ID.
He wrote this in 2005:

Those who advocate photo IDs at polling places forget that not everyone has one. Not everyone flies on airplanes. Not everyone has a drivers license. If a photo ID is required to vote, it had better be 1) free, and 2) easily available everywhere to everyone. Otherwise it's a poll tax. http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/03/voting_and_ids.html

WHO WILL IT AFFECT? A lot of legal citizens....

Data from a nationally representative telephone survey of 2,026 adults, commissioned by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities and conducted between January 12 and January 16 by the Opinion Research Corporation:

Key findings from the survey include:

About one in every twelve (8 percent) U.S.-born adults age 18 or older who have incomes below $25,000 report they do not have a U.S. passport or U.S. birth certificate in their possession.

More than one tenth of U.S.-born adults with children who have incomes below $25,000 reported they did not have a birth certificate or passport for at least one of their children.

At least 3.2 to 4.6 million U.S.-born citizens would not have a U.S. passport or birth certificate readily available.

While 5.7 percent of all adults in the survey (i.e., adults at all income levels) reported they lack these documents, the percentage was larger for certain groups:

African American adults:--------------- 9 percent
Senior citizens 65 or older:------------7 percent
Adults without a high school diploma:---9 percent
Adults living in rural areas: ----------9 percent

These data and earlier research also suggest that elderly African Americans with low incomes may experience particular difficulties because a significant number of them were never issued birth certificates.

The House passed the bill a week ago. Now it moves to the Senate.
If the senatepasses it, the photo id part will go into effect in 2008,
and the requirement to prove your citizenship will go into effect in 2010.

All this just to be given a ballot in order to vote.
Not to register to vote but to cast a ballot.
Ask your neighbors if they have proof of citizenship.

WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO GET A BIRTH CERTIFICATE?

In my home state of North Carolina, if you need to order your birth certificate, here is what
you can expect:

IF you need your birth certificate within 5-7 business days, it will cost you
$30.00 for the certificate and $25.45 required to have it sent to you by the required UPS Air.
http://www.vitalchek.com/provider_overview.asp?provider_id=14834&North_Carolina_Birth_Certificate

If you don't mind waiting 6-8 weeks for your birth certificate, then you can mail your request for a
birth certificate from Raleigh, from the vital records dept for $15.00.
http://vitalrecords.dhhs.state.nc.us/vr/requests/

This may not sound like much to you, but add that in the long wait that most people don't expect,
and you might not get to vote.

The Congress isn't telling the public everything - read the fine print - the devil is in the details.

My elderly next door neighbor, a regular voter, and a republican - will not be able to
cast her vote in 2008.

[Wilms]

1. Good job.

That poll CNN put up was worded in an unfortunate manner.

The first eight words are, "Do you agree with Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton ..."

I got that far and realized the poll would not be favorable.

By the way, what has HRC done about election reform (other than the bill she co-sponsored)?

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

16. lady writes NYT regarding her disabled husband's ID

Please contact Lou Dobbs and try to educate him about how this legislation
is just another boondoggle.

The Moves to Restrict Voting (8 Letters)

To the Editor:

Overlooking the fact that new voter requirements in the form of mandatory photo ID’s are unconstitutional and unfair, it is clear that agencies charged with carrying out the new rules couldn’t handle it.

My disabled husband’s only form of photo ID is the state’s ID card issued through the department of motor vehicles. All requirements for a new card were fulfilled almost four months ago — but he has still not received his card.

After speaking to several people at the motor vehicle agency, I was told “no problem, the computer says it’s been updated through 2012.”

See how far that gets you at your local polling place some November!

The actual card’s whereabouts? We still don’t know.

After being on intermittent “hold” with Sacramento for more than 20 minutes, the line went dead.

May the same thing happen to this latest effort to restrict voter access!

Ellen Throop
Petaluma, Calif., Sept. 21, 2006

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/27/opinion/l27vote.html?ex=1160020800&en=a7ea4e6cc0b810b3&ei=5070&emc=eta1

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

2. Effective date?

From a website:

"The Federal Election Integrity Act of 2006 (H.R. 4844), also known as the Voter ID Act, would --take effect in 2010-- and require voters to present a photo ID that could not have been obtained without proof of U.S. citizenship."

"Every election cycle we hear stories of voter fraud and stories of non-citizens voting in our elections. That is why the Voter ID Act is the common sense step towards bringing integrity to our elections," said House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) in a statement."



Just for kix, has there been any proof of voter-fraud/non-citizens voting as a rampent problem? Is this bill more knee-jerk reactionary than actually doing any good?

Thanks for the information, I've been having the same issues about 'its just a Voter ID' and new I needed some education.

[jody]

3. Social Security must verify a birth record for an original SS #

QUOTE
Verification of birth records

Social Security must verify a birth record for all U.S.-born applicants of any age who apply for an original Social Security number. An exception is made when a parent applies for a baby’s Social Security number at the hospital when the baby is born.

Social Security must also verify a birth record for U.S.-born individuals who ask to correct the date of birth on our records. To verify a birth record, Social Security will contact the office that issued it.
UNQUOTE

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

4. thats new, dated March 2006

Jody said: "Social Security must verify a birth record for an original SS #

This is a new rule -

New Rules For Getting A Social Security Number And Card
SSA Publication No. 05-10120, March 2006, (En Español)
Recent provisions in law have changed the rules for assigning a Social Security number and issuing a Social Security card. This fact sheet gives the most up-to-date information available on the documents needed to apply for a Social Security number and card.

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10120.html

[jody]

5. That's the pub I quoted and to which I gave a link. n/a

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

7. yeh and its useless to everyone getting ss before March

but thanks anyway for trying. You get a * for effort.

TOo bad HR 4844 is a thinly veiled attempt to disenfranchise millions of
legal voters, mostly democrat.

Clearly the majority of DEMS see this, and only 3 DINOS supported it.

What a smack in the face of civil rights, HR 4844 and its supporters are.

[jody]

9. Facts are several states already require birth certificates to obtain

ID cards issued by the state and so does the federal government.

You assert HR 4844 will disenfranchise millions of legal voters but neither you or anyone else has completed a study to support that claim.

One simple fact you ignore is that those who want to register to vote must prove they are U.S. citizens and later must prove they are the person registered before they are allowed to vote.

What documents do you propose to use for registering to vote and later voting?

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

10. see my post which is number 8 it answers question. N/T

[jody]

12. Your #8 uses a study that says “Percent of U.S. Adults (18 or older) Who

Do Not Have a Passport or Birth Certificate Available”

The study did not ask whether the respondents to the survey would be able to get a birth certificate.

I'm not impressed with a study that twists the facts implying those without a Passport would not be able obtain a birth certificate or other proof of U.S. citizenship.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

13. Bill Would Weaken Democracy by Requiring Some Citizens to Pay for Document

Many won't be able to afford "permission" to vote:

Bill Would Weaken Democracy by Requiring Some Citizens to Pay for Documents in Order to Vote

The effect, if not the intent, of the House bill would be to make it more difficult for millions of eligible U.S. citizens to vote, and most likely to disenfranchise a significant number of these citizens. The bill would be especially hard on certain already vulnerable groups, such as individuals who are elderly or have low incomes. (It can cost $5 to $23 to get a birth certificate, while a passport costs $87 to $97.) In addition, in the case of many elderly African Americans, the bill would likely reinforce previous racial discrimination that prevented some of them from having birth certificates in the first place. For these reasons, the bill likely would do more to weaken Americans’ voting rights than to protect them.

Notes and specific citations here for anyone wishing more details or attributions
http://www.cbpp.org/9-22-06id.htm

[jody]

14. Do you oppose requiring prospective voters to prove they are

U.S. citizens before they are allowed to register to vote and that they are registered before voting?

My guess is you support those two conditions so what documents do you propose to use for registering to vote and later voting?

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

15. Do you support disenfranchising elderly,minority, Katrina victims?n/t

[jody]

17. No so please answer my question. What documents do you propose to use to

prove a prospective voter is a U.S. citizen and should be allowed to register and vote.

By avoiding my simple question, I'm beginning to believe you want to complain about photo Voter ID but you don't have a clue about an answer.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

18. I don't buy into the GOP Voter ID/Permission to Vote law n/t

[jody]

19. It's obvious you can 't answer my simple question.

Goodbye, :hi:

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

20. Proving citizenship is ridiculous and expensive

so I dont propose that we be required to provide a government
issued ID, or a passport, or a computer chip under our skin,
nor a fingerprint scan.

The Brennan Center believes that at least 10% of people who don't
currently have a birthcertificate or passport - won't get such.

These are folks like my elderly next door neighbor - who need rides from
neighbors and family just to go to the grocery store, and who seldom
get out.

These folks manage to get to the polls, but it is very hard for them.

As a democrat, the last thing I want to do is disenfranchise valid voters,
and I don't want to endorse a national human tracking system either.

I am for freedom, not just to own GUNS, which I have a couple of, but
to have the freedom to exist.

Frankly, this is supposed to be a government that serves the people, but
all we see lately is a goverment that wants us to jump through hoops in
order to enjoy our basic rights,
and a government that NOW has permission to detain and torture people
like me who don't toe the line.

I will never agree that forcing people to cough up tons of documentation
more than what their states require now - is necessary.

The only problem here is how to create another money making boondoggle for
GOPers that own some sort of agencies that make money off of this scheme,
and for Karl Rove to be able to supress Democratic Voters.

[Kurovski]

6. Kick.(nt)

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

8. "main impact will be on US citizens themselves."

I think Foger posted this on another thread, but I saw it linked
on www.Buzzflash.com today, and it should be added to this thread:

SURVEY INDICATES HOUSE BILL COULD DENY
VOTING RIGHTS TO MILLIONS OF U.S. CITIZENS

Low-Income, African American, Elderly, and Rural Voters at Special Risk
By Robert Greenstein, Leighton Ku, and Stacy Dean

On September 20 the House passed a bill (H.R. 4844) that would, starting in 2010, effectively deny the vote to any U.S. citizen who cannot produce a passport or birth certificate (or proof of naturalization). Although the bill’s supporters present it as a measure intended to prevent non-citizens from voting, the bill’s main impact will be on U.S. citizens themselves. A national survey finds that approximately 11 million native-born citizens currently lack the required documents. A substantial number could have difficulty obtaining or affording them.

The national survey, conducted in January 2006 by Opinion Research Corporation and sponsored by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, also indicates that the bill would affect certain groups disproportionately (see Figures 1 and 2) — including people with low incomes, African Americans, the elderly, people without a high school diploma, rural residents, and residents of the South and Midwest. Substantial numbers of these and other citizens could potentially be disenfranchised by the bill. http://www.cbpp.org/9-22-06id.htm

Send some of this info to Dobb,please -

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

11. Argument against HR 4844 Voter ID Bill: You Don't Need a Permission Slip t

Here is a great essay posted at Oregon Voters Rights Coalition:

Argument against HR 4844 Voter ID Bill: You Don't Need a Permission Slip to Vote

By Kathy Jackson

What this bill really does is to change the frame from having a right to vote to having a license to vote. The difference is crucial. Instead of treating the vote as something intrinsic to civic participation, HR 4844 proposes that the right to vote is something that is government regulated and that you need a "permission slip", i.e. "government-issued photo ID" in order to vote.

Supporters of HR 4844 say inane things like: "I have to show my ID at the airport or to buy liquor or cigarettes" ... "Everyone should have ID anyway" ... "I have a drivers license, doesn't everyone?" .."I had to show my ID to get a hunting license."

...I would argue that the right to vote is different because it is not and should not be government regulated since it is at the core of democracy. Why should the government be regulating the vote when it is the voters who are ultimately in charge? It is by the vote that the will of the people is expressed. It is by the vote that there is a legitimate transfer of power from the people to the government...
http://www.oregonvrc.org/2006/09/argument_against_hr_4844_voter_id_bill