Hey, I don't hate Bev Harris...

[WHAT]

In fact, I think she's done a lot for election reform...

and, I'm experimenting with the new ignore features...take a break, moderators.

on edit...here is the relevent post by skinner about new ignore features:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3076551

[salin]

1. Interestingly enough,

I thought of this very topic as one where things could get a wee bit dysfunctional per this rule and how folks apply it.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. Easy Answer, Darlin'.

Make your case but try not to be insulting.

Not that I have EVER seen you wade into controversial verbiage. Just discussing tactics and probity. ;-)

[salin]

33. I am proud to admit

I have never received a warning from the mods :D Someone may block me, their loss :D

My comment was more from an observational position ... :popcorn:

:hi:

[Patsy Stone]

2. Nice one

Please don't put me on ignore. :)

[WHAT]

4. I won't...

promise.

I wondered how this rule would effect this topic. I can see the good and the bad of it, the rule change, that is. Will it separate the bullies or group them? Don't know, anyway, it's interesting.

[Patsy Stone]

5. I'm going with group

The purpose, IMO, is to make DU a more productive community. If people are running around trying to bash their point into people's heads without the benefit of tact, reasoned thinking, and/or a comprehension of the existence of opposing viewpoints, then they should be happiest discussing the subject only with those who think the same way.

Since they can't seem to figure that out themselves, this is a societal tool to corral them organically.

It will create a more pleasant atmosphere for actual discourse and rational disagreement.

My .02.

ed: gram.

[Grateful for Hope]

6. I agree with you, Patsy.

:thumbsup:

[WHAT]

7. if I disagree with someone...

that doesn't mean I dislike them.

It seems people tend to be friends with people who think the same way they do. My problem is that I have a nit picky personality and thus I don't agree with a lot of people but that doesn't mean I don't like them...I especially cherish people who have come by their "misbegotten" ideas the hard way, by thinking about them.

I'm still waiting to see if mace or bill will make an appearance, I bet not...

[Patsy Stone]

8. I've never put anyone on ignore

But I have hidden threads during some of the rough times.

Of course one doesn't equal the other. You should be able to respectfully disagree with anyone without it reflecting on your feelings towards that person. I just don't think this is about that. This is about completely blocking out someone because you don't ever want to hear from them again. That's extreme. There's more at work there than whether you think there should be investigations before impeachment and I don't. We have to have a history, and you have to decide that I make your life completely miserable by my mere presence and you can not stand my viewpoint one more minute.

That sounds to me like the person doing the ignoring is blocking out those who disagree.

The other possibility is this is also good for ending stalking or other weirdness.

ed: 'cuz I wasn't finished.

[EFerrari]

9. Tell you what, I won't put you on ignore for not hating

someone who actively tried to block the cancer treatment of a great DUer and of someone who was my dear friend.

Fair enough?

[WHAT]

10. I won't block you, either...

although all those posts were very painful for me because I had a person very close to me go through pancreatic cancer treatment...and survive. I relived it all with those posts and that was 20 years ago. If it was that painful for me to relive something like that through the name calling, I don't think it would be right for someone with present-day anguish to read such bad decision making wrt their loved one.

You might feel wounded, but I feel wounded, too...in a different aspect of the same crisis.

Really, I think it's better to talk about things than to be angry. I also think a lot of hurt is self-defense rather than other directed...that understanding allows people to cut-some-slack and in that grace get over it.

[EFerrari]

12. No, this isn't about self defense. This is about identifying

anti social behavior.

We don't need that here.

[WHAT]

14. what is anti-social behaviour?

to you?

If you identify yourself with a group that you identify as "society", then anything that threatens that group threatens your society and thus becomes "anti-social" behaviour? Don't be so angry, the world is full of people making mistakes...a minority on purpose, but most I don't think so.

All I can say is that I like a lot of your posts, here, but not on this point because, based on experience, I would advise anyone with a loved one dealing with this type of tragic situation to avoid the pit falls in the example that is so close to you.

I'm sorry

[EFerrari]

15. Anti social behavior is not a "mistake". It is the willful infringement

of the wellbeing of other people.

And, excuse me, but what in the world gives YOU the right to tell ME how to modulate my emotions, let alone the insight to tell through your keyboard how I feel? Checked your own boundaries lately?

Is that you again, Bev?

And, we weren't discussing a tragic situation. We were discussing the intentional blocking of Andy Stephenson's medical care by Bev "Harris".

[WHAT]

18. again, I'm sorry and...

nothing gives me the right to modulate your emotions. I can only modulate my own.

My experiences were different than yours. I think you might still be in the "anger" stage of grieving and I realize I might sound like an ass to you for saying that.

:grouphug:

There is enough of a time lapse between my experience and grief to separate the two issues of election reform and medical care/response. They are two separate issues to me but if you have braided the two you have the right to deal with that situation in your life the best you can. I only truly know my own experiences...not yours.

[EFerrari]

20. No. That grifter tried to prevent Andy Stephenson from getting

medical care. I'm not "braiding" them together, she did.

So, despite your efforts to marginalize me, this whole forum and indeed, DU and many places on the net witnessed that act of hers.

Nice try.

[truedelphi]

52. Well, it is not only the medical care denial that inflames my heart against Bev

If Andy ws still alive he would be able to serve as a witness to ALL the things that she has done that (okay, here I am giving her the benefit of the doubt) are DYSFUNCTIONAL

In the days leading up to the election of 2004, she asked DU'ers to contribute and they did donate massive amounts of money.

Has it been spent on the Freedom of Information Acts that Bev said that it would be spent on?

Why are there reports of over $ 600K sitting in a non-profit bank account that she oversees (Oops, I forgot - Andy was supposed to do some paperwork - except being DEAD - he can't do that! Bad DEAD Andy!)

Bev will "chum" up to you until she thinks you are getting too big for your britches (I.e. getting a reputation, even a minor rep, for working on the election issue)

She divides and conquers her office staff - telling one person, Ms. Y. that "X doesn't like you"
and then running and telling Mr. X "Y doesn't like you." So the office staff will concede their authority to letting Bev handle more of the personal communications than she should. This divide and conquer ploy keeps her in the power chair.

Bev also took work that a woman in Georgia spent hundreds of hours on and claimed that she, Bev, had done the work.

Ancient proverb well worth stating: Those who don't learn from Herstory are gonna be condemned to repeat it.

[EFerrari]

60. There's herstory that I can't speak to.

As I say down thread, sociopaths can be very endearing -- until they're not.

I'm sorry any of us have to deal with this when there's so much work to do.

[mopinko]

35. antisocial behavior

is why bev was banned repeatedly from du, long before andy got sick. she sends her sock puppets here to this day, imho.
it does us great harm to have the most upfront person in the movement be clearly psycho. the attention she brings the issue does not help- it makes it radioactive to the people who get to know her. like KO.
to say nothing of the money she has siphoned off, when it could have been put to good use. then there is the whole qui tam issue.
don't hate her if you don't want to, WHAT, but you ain't likely to sell that.

[kster]

11. Bev was one of the leaders in exposing this e-counting scam

and she continues to expose it, How can that be wrong? That whole debate, to me, was one of the silliest things I've ever encountered on the DU to date. Thanks to Skinner, the problem is (more than likely) solved.

I mean, its fine that a person does not like Bev, but that same person doesn't have to keep telling me, OVER AND OVER AGAIN, that they don't like Bev. :)

K&R.......

[EFerrari]

13. To use the term "like" trivializes the direct experience

of many posters to this forum. Let alone, the fact that one can't like Bev, objectively, when she's trying to block the medical treatment of election reform activists.

Please.

Go pitch Bev on Free Republic. They loved her there, kster.

/t

[kster]

16. Corporate America is counting our votes in secret, and the

Politicians, more than likely, are enabling them. That is a SERIOUS problem, Bev Harris, while she may, or may not be a bitch, is not my concern, the fact that she keeps going after these secret vote counting machines, is very much a concern of mine.

"block the medical treatment of election reform activists" You or I can't do nothing about it, If true, Bev will have to deal with the higher ups when it comes to that, Right now my concern is putting an end to the secret vote counting.

As I said, You and I have had this discussion OVER AND OVER again, we will not change each others mind, so why try, lets fight the secret corporate vote counting machines(A much bigger fish). We can worry about Bev later. :)

[EFerrari]

19. That grifter is not an every day pain.

She has ripped off your peers in this forum. She actively tried to harm a dear DUer and an effective election reform activist. In fact when he passed, she owed him money. What a gal.

Are we so short of media savvy people that we need to embrace that kind of contaminate? Nope.

If you think so, you've bought in.

Sorry. All things aren't relative. There are people who are toxic no matter how much attention they get in the moment. And I can and do recognize that while fighting the main fight, too.

It's too bad but most movements attract people like that grifter who prey on their peers. We don't help ourselves by overlooking that.

[kster]

21. So should we all forget about Bevs accomplishments

when it comes to the election theft machines, because Sfexpat, says Bev is a grifter?

Or because you do not care for Bev, I should ignore the fact that Bev is doing Good for our movement?

Or Just because You say "Bev is a grifter", I should no longer listen to anything Bev has to say?

C'mon thats silly.

[Ellipsis]

23. I agree, just because your a parasite doesn't mean you can't bring things to light. n/t

[kster]

24. btmlndfrmr, Thats not very nice.......nt

[Ellipsis]

25. Perhaps, I should have said she requires a symbiotic relationship in order to perform.

In the scheme of reality there will always be BEV'S riding on the accomplishments of others.

She is... a necessary evil.

But... she happened to make things between her and Andy personal, unfortunate that. The outcome has forever tainted her and vicariously... the hard work of those who surround her.

It has damaged "the cause" many here work toward ....and may I add, despoils the memory of Andy, while also not perfect... a person who's heart was in the right place and I regret not getting to know.

In short, it is a round robin with no cure, and it is exceedingly frustrating to watch talented people with input waste time hacking each other off at the knees.

May I add a belated, Happy New Year to you Kster.

[kster]

27. Happy New years to You to, and as it says in the DU rules

you can not tell someone that they are on ignore, unless you actually put them on ignore, btmlndfrmr You Are On Ignore.

[EFerrari]

38. It is, a silly strawman. Let's not do this.

We have stuff to do today, which for me includes figuring out where to get a pink shirt for a protest tonight.

Let's keep moving.

[Kurovski]

44. If all else fails try putting a white shirt into a warm wash

with a red item that bleeds.


Soaking a cotton item in raspberry juice and then washing it could work too, given the stains I've encountered.

[EFerrari]

45. LOL! Okay, off to find some rasberries.

:)

[Kurovski]

46. You don't have any in your freezer??!

It's too bad we're not neighbors, I've got the berries AND red wool socks, and a mountain of white cotton t-shirts in a variety of sizes.

(Beets, too!)

Good luck to you, kiddo. :D

[EFerrari]

47. Thanks! Wow. Beets! A can of beets . . .

That would it, for sure. :hug:

[truedelphi]

53. Those of us who are speaking out against Bev

Are in a sense just trying to warn people that the next time Bev sticks a knife in someone's back, that someone could be you.

That being said, I think it is very wise to get as much out of Bev as you can. Our funding of her non-profit has allowed her to deal with election reform issues and accomplish things. It would be a shame to let these accomplishments go to waste. In a sense, since our major funding of Bev circa late Oct early Nov 2004 - the donations etc have allowed Bev to continue with her work and her work should help the public domain.

I would even play nice to her - but I think she has blocked my phone number.

Her information is our information. If you have the stomach and ability to deal with her - by all means GO FOR IT!

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

48. motivation? this whole thread stinks badly

DO you ever wonder the motivation of some person
mindlessly starting a thread like this?

Perhaps someone wants to try the old divide and conquer
thing.

WTF is the point of this thread if not to
damage or harm folks here at DU?

This thread is a pile of crap.

[kster]

50. In this thread I find myself Agreeing with people, That I

don't usually agree with :thumbsup:

[EFerrari]

54. Agree. n/t

[hunter]

39. Right, kster.

Instead of talking about problems directly with election officials, now you have to prove you are not a nut first.

Thanks.

BTW, I don't ignore anybody. I don't have to.

[Kelvin Mace]

42. And we have documented how Bev

used other people, seized the credit, then smeared anyone who dared diagree with her.

She's your hero, you are free to worship her all you like.

We'll bring up the opposing view, on this thread or another.

[EFerrari]

17. WHAT, I'm going to bed now.

And I promise you this. That while I am allowed to post to this board, that grifter who willfully tried to deny Andy treatment will not be rehabilitated here.

Because I know DU and I know DU has a healthy respect for FACTS and for human life.

Have a good night.

Elizabeth Ferrari

[WHAT]

22. night, night...

.

[kster]

26. Will DEFINITELY look into the new ignore feature

I really need a break.

Election Reform is Election Reform, And should be treated as such.

Thank You, and Thank You to Skinner, for making an attempt to put a stop to this kind of b-llsh-t.

Keep on keepin on, is all we can do.

[Kelvin Mace]

43. You look into it

Dissenting views must be squelched.

[autorank]

28. It doesn't go into effect until the 16th!

I tried it out and that's what showed up.

But that's one heck of a test message:rofl:

[Ellipsis]

29. yup.

:hi:

[autorank]

31. Hey der...

:hi: Happy times...ass hats overboard but c'est la vie;)

[kster]

30. Thank You, Autorank, as Johnny Carson would say "I did not know that"

they have to get all this b-llsh-t in before it comes into affect, cause then their game is OVER...... :toast:

[autorank]

32. "You are right sir" as Ed McMahon used to say, I think;)

Already have a little buddy, new one, Very attentive to detail. I think I can be very civil until the big day. Very...unless you mess with me in which case I'll have to Kirk Out



:rofl:

[Skinner]

34. No, It's working right now.

I think the confusion may be that when someone uses the "Block Replies To Me" function, you cannot undo the block for seven days.

Perhaps our explanation was not clear. Is our text confusing somewhere?

[kster]

37. Thanks Skinner,

for this new feature, are you going to consider bringing anyone that has been barred from DU back in, with this feature seems like you probably could. I know two Election Enforcers, I'd like to see come back, if they would.

One in particular that would enhance the DU, if He would and/or could come back. Do you have any plans on doing something like that?

[autorank]

40. Right. The last featureis the 16th, which is fine.

Cannot edit until Jan-16 11:00PM...happy to wait. This is a GREAT FEATURE.

[nicknameless]

59. Clarification: If you *block* someone, you can't remove them from being blocked for 7 days.

It sounds like you activated blocking to prevent someone from posting to you.
The little message, that you can't edit until the 16th, just means that you can't remove them from being blocked until that date.

There was an explanation in Skinner's OP about why there's a 7 day period wherein you can't change the blocking for someone.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=3086082&mesg_id=3086082

The first condition is that if you add someone to your "Block Replies To Me" list, you cannot remove that person from the list for seven days. This will make it impossible for someone to engage in anti-social behavior of repeatedly turning-on-and-turning-off the block to game the system.

:hi:, BTW

[autorank]

62. Thanks for that. I must have been so excited my eyes failed me;)

[EFerrari]

61. Hey, Skinner -- can I put myself on ignore for a week?

:rofl:

[troubleinwinter]

36. "she's done a lot"

Hate is not a word I've used. I have said that Bev is a proven liar. And likely a sociopath.

"done a lot for election reform"... right, like repeatedly lying about, smearing and attempting to discredit a number of election reform activists, alienating K.O. and Randi and others so that they're reluctant to cover the issue, lying about the donations resulting from RR, and calling donations from DUers "chump change", threatening to sue DU, numerous sock-puppets singing her own praises.

She repeatedly claimed that the Qui Tam money would be donated to BBV and posted that she donated the Qui Tam $, so "worked for negative $10k" in the first fiscal year. Then her own site said she didn't donate it that year, that it would be shown on the second year 990, but guess what... it is NOT. In fact, the current posted filing form shows that such a donation was NOT made in the second year, either.

Lying about, smearing and harming others, discrediting the movement. Lie after lie after lie. She's "done a lot" alright.

But if you wish to deafen yourself to such matters, you certainly can.

[kster]

51. A sociopath,what the F-ck Thank You Skinner

You gave us an option.

[EFerrari]

55. Yes, a sociopath. Like the kind of people that abandon their children

and don't pay their taxes and rip off donors and harm perceived enemies at any cost.

WTF, indeed.

[Kelvin Mace]

41. Ah, I wondered how long it would take

for a Bev supporter/apologist to set up a thread, just so he could ban people.

Oh, well.

As we have said, Bev's misdeeds against DU, DUers, Andy, anti-BBV activists are well documented.

Since I will probably only get one shot before I am banned, here are the links:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Kelvin%20Mace
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Kelvin%20Mace/2

Of course, you realize that should you ban people for simply criticizing Bev, we can return the favor and create our own thread. This will also spur us to dig further into our bag of Bev emails, posts and such and post yet more evidence against her. I have quite a few of her deranged emails I can offer. The longer you make a point of acting as her proxy on DU, the longer we will rebut. It all gets indexed by Google and Bev's reputation for vileness is burnished into the public record.

Is this really what Bev wants?

[kster]

49. Thats Fair and Square, I agree with you

You should be able to start alllllll the Anti-Bev threads you so desire, And I promise, I will not come into any of your threads and piss all over them, as I would hope that, when I make a positive Bev thread that you don't come in to my thread, and piss all over it.

That to me, is FAIR AND SQAURE, I never thought I would agree with you, but I do on this. :)

[EFerrari]

56. Funny, I don't see Kelvin Mace starting "anti grifter" threads.

People aren't good or evil usually, lol. They are a mixed bag, kster. This person that you admire has done things that not only are not admirable, but are nauseating in their disregard for the welfare of others and of the the movement.

I wish I could change that, ignore it, make it go away, but I can't. Doing reality checks on that grifter isn't something that I enjoy -- in the least.

I have lived with a sociopath. They can be endearing, charming, effective, newsworthy, admirable. But over time, in order for them to stay that way in your view, you need some major blinkers.

You choose your own adventure, kster, but you can't choose your own facts. And saying that gives me no pleasure whatsoever. I'm sorry.

[kster]

57. I never seen him make any anti-grifter threads either, I

was reffering to when he said this,

"Of course, you realize that should you ban people for simply criticizing Bev, we can return the favor and create our own thread."

I am saying that I agree with Kelvin that he should be able to make all the threads that he wants, that are critical of Bev.

Did you ever find that pink shirt? How did things go?

[EFerrari]

58. I had to sit here and wrestle with these machines.

:mad:

Thanks for asking.

[Generarth]

63. "Bev Harris"

The phone number given by "Bev" for blackboxvoting.org is another person's. It's the same number as Talion's from 1998/99 as well and it's been consistently in this person's name for 10 years at least.

PM me for more details.

[troubleinwinter]

64. 330 SW 43rd St Suite K-547 Renton WA

is the address listed for BBV.org, the same address as Talion in 1998, seller of "Clinton Cigars". I don't see that the phone# is the same.

[Generarth]

65. Yes it is

http://web.archive.org/web/19981201090340/http://www.talion.com/

[troubleinwinter]

66. It just always cracks me up:

"First two minutes is FREE, then US $3 per minute" to talk to 'BJ' (Bev).

[Generarth]

67. Barbara

"to talk to 'BJ' (Bev)."

It's actually Barbara it seems. 'Bev' seems to be fictional.

I don't know Barbara's political connections, if any, but maybe somebody wants to research them. I don't have the time but as I said I'm happy to pass the relevant info along for somebody else to do it. The connection is pretty much rock-solid.

[WHAT]

68. So much for the block function...

Now people are on this thread giving-out personal information. It's "threatening". It's not right.

[Wickerman]

69. Locking

by request of the OP.