Washington Trips coming up

[eridani]

March 13-17

Lobbying Congress & Peace Rally at the Pentagon

Appointments so far with John Conyers, Stephanie Tubbs-Jones, NAACP, Leadership Conference on Civil Rights, Advancement Project, & Lawyers Committee on Civil Rights

March 23- 25
PDA Grassroots Leadership Conference

Thank you to those who have contributed to travel expenses and Walking for Democracy. Washington trips are approximately $1000 each trip and Walking for Democracy $5000 for lawyers and for doing Discovery. Thank you for making restoring Democracy possible.

Actions in Florida--


RALLY FOR VERIFIABLE ELECTIONS

Let Governor Crist know We need Paper Ballots with Mandatory Random Audits


March 21st
In Front of Old State Capitol Tallahassee

Hear those who know what it means and what it takes to have Free and Fair Elections

Master of Ceremonies--Bill Faulkner

Speakers:

Congressional Candidates Contesting their Elections: Clint Curtis, Christine Jennings, John Russell, and Mark Adams Attorney for Curtis & Russell

Ion Sancho, Leon County Supervisor of Elections

Susan Pynchon, Executive Director, Florida Fair Elections Coalition

Kindra Muntz--- President, Sarasoda Alliance for Fair Elections

Karen Thurman, Chair of Florida Democratic Party

Charley Wiggins--- Interim Vice-President of Five Cities Democractic Club--- Volusia County

Enjoy the Ride aboard the Bus For Verifiable Elections $75 per passenger Round Trip. Includes Dinner at the Old Time Café. Be at the back of Volusia Mall no later than 6:30 AM. Bring your cell so we can find each other at the Rally. Bus Returns at 10:00 PM

Contact Charlie Wiggins for reservation and information 386-424-0605
www.clintcurtis.com to Contribute

This WEEKEND

Walking for Democracy
Help us get the data we need to prove the machines don’t work for our Contest before the state and Congress. Come for an hour or enjoy the day

Saturday March 3rd
9:00 – 5:00 PM
Precinct 52
Meet at Meet at South Seminole Middle School
South Winter Park Drive

Sunday March 4th
1:00 – 5:30 PM
Precinct 52
Meet at Meet at South Seminole Middle School
South Winter Park Drive

Contact marty 954-732-1112 or marty {at} go-nci.com

[kster]

1. Checks, Balances and Public Oversight =

100% Hand Counted Paper Ballots (PERIOD)

Audits is another word for SAME OL, SAME OL, F*ck that!!!

NEVER AGAIN!!!

[eridani]

2. People are similar to machines in one respect

Both fuck up. You're touting checks and balances? What's better at checks and balances than two very different systems, each of which is a check on the other. Hand counts and optical scanning are like counting tree rings and carbon dating. Paleontologists are very happy campers indeed when the numbers from these two very different methods agree with each other.

Why persist in ignoring the basic fact that optical scanning is more accurate than hand counting once you get above doing two races at the same time? Of course, that's if it's working right, which obviously must be checked by hand-counted audits each and every time.

[kster]

3. Audit the Hand Counted Paper Ballots with your machines

do you have a problem with that? I mean you do like your AUDITS.

So have at it, when we are done Hand Counting the Paper Ballots AUDIT OUR, Hand Count till your hands fall off, I don't mind.

[eridani]

4. Hand counted ballots are less accurate for more than two races

Living in a county with more than 1000 different ballot styles, I have a problem with that.

[kster]

5. So, audits of a machine are faster and more accurate

State Audit of Sarasota Voting System Flawed, Incomplete

http://www.christinejenningsforcongress.com/vertical/Sites/{661B9D35-1B36-415F-84DA-90168433FC06}/uploads/{900EF34B-FEDB-4C0C-BC9A-BCB99E965187}_Web.jpg

Wonder if She agrees you?

http://www.christinejenningsforcongress.com/

[eridani]

6. Care to explain what a touchscreen system has to do with opscan?

The iVotronic system that stole the election from Jennings happens to be touchscreen. Touchscreens should be absolutely outlawed except as interfaces that produce ballots to be scanned and handcunted.)

[kster]

7. No, I don't really care to, but,

Checks, Balances and Public Oversight. Hand Counted Paper Ballots. (PERIOD) We will NOT be fooled again.

[kster]

8. Look at that ballot real close........nt

[livvy]

9. Why do there have to be so many different ballot styles?

Why do we have to vote on so many issues at one time? We don't have to vote on multiple races and propositions simultaneously. To make hand counting manageable, we might have to vote more often, but if it results in open, honest and transparent elections and decisions by the people, then that's what should be done.
I have no faith in any of the electronic devices. I may have in the past, but I just don't anymore. I would rather place my trust in the members of my community, working together, and checking on each other.
Just my two cents....now I have to go do the ERD for the day.
Woot, woot for election reform, no fraud, and related news!

[eridani]

10. The people who program machines to cheat--

--are members of the community just as much as you are. They don't behave any better when they count ballots by hand. Is it OK for Warren County, Ohio to call a fake terrorist alert and count ballots behind closed doors? Does it make it all better if they hand count them under those circumstances?

My faith in the potential of opscan is based on my personal experience with the WA state 2004 gubernatorial recount. Two machine recounts and one complete statewide handcount were within 0.1% of each other. The hand count added votes to the totals of all three candidates, which is the expected direction of error.

Your proposal to make our elections less complex is what, exactly?

[livvy]

11. They would behave better if the hand count was done correctly.

Of course it's not O.K. to count ballots in secret under any circumstances. When a machine counts the ballots it's always in secret, no matter how many people you have watching it do the counting. We don't know how the software is programmed to count. The city clerks don't know either. Only the companies that make the software are privy to that information.
I agree that opscans are better than other machines, but my preference is HCPB.
As far as the answer to your last question, I think I addressed some of that in the other post. Counting could be done at the polling place, totals posted, results combined at a central location, and delivered in person. Every step of the process open, transparent, and verified.

[eridani]

12. There are serious problems getting enough people trained as election workers

--in large counties. Not to mention the problems attendant on counting many different races accurately when you've been on the job for 12 hours.

[livvy]

13. I think there would be less problems getting volunteers....

if they knew they would be asked to sort and count, rather than deal with machines. The other part is, there does not need to be many different races.
Let's say, for example, in 2008, the only races would be for President, US Congress, and state House and Senate races. That's a maximum of 5 ballots, each with it's own color. Sort by color then by candidate. Count the stacks.
If it was done at the polling place, the process would be manageable.
Proposals would have their own voting dates.
Other state offices could have separate election dates as well.
So, it's not as convenient as getting out to vote just once. That's a pity, but as a citizen, it's a responsibility.

[eridani]

14. What do you plan on doing in the meantime?

How do you propose to get elections departments to hold a bunch of separate election? None of my state legislators will give us the time of day on that one.

[livvy]

15. Right now, I'm still working on convincing people that there is a need for change...

that a problem with our system even exists. Honestly, that's about as far as I've gotten with it. There are still an awful lot of people out there, that believe the system has worked just fine. I don't feel change is going to happen, if people don't feel it is needed, especially such a radical overhaul of the system. So at this point, my main focus has been a fact spreader.
I have contacted State and Federal legislators with my concerns about the current system, and been in contact with the City Clerk, but honestly, I haven't pushed the HCPB issue with anyone except those on my information/fact spreading email list, and through conversations with friends and family. I also, have no problem admitting, that I should work harder on this issue, if it's what I truly believe in.
I give you credit for trying with your state reps.

on edit...
This is interesting:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0702/S00271.htm