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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-29-09 02:24 PM Original message |
2009 Holt Bill. E-Voting: Making a Bad System Worse |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-29-09 02:44 PM Response to Original message |
1. K&R...nt |
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WillYourVoteBCounted (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-10-09 06:26 PM Response to Reply #1 |
64. I see Nancy's losing her touch |
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Peace Patriot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-29-09 03:02 PM Response to Original message |
2. I don't know why progress has to be "incremental." What the fuck is this matter with |
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gristy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-29-09 03:07 PM Response to Reply #2 |
3. I could not care less how many voting systems have a paper trail |
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Peace Patriot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-29-09 03:45 PM Response to Reply #3 |
4. I meant "no paper trail at all." I chose the phrase carefully. It includes paper ballots |
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Yellow Horse (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-30-09 05:45 AM Response to Reply #2 |
9. Because if you go for "all or nothing" you will get NOTHING. |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-30-09 10:05 AM Response to Reply #9 |
13. 100% HCPB ain't going to happen. |
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Bill Bored (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-29-09 04:46 PM Response to Original message |
5. Here come the NYers! (See this comment by a REAL Democrat!) |
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Stevepol (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-29-09 05:09 PM Response to Original message |
6. K&R!! |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-29-09 10:23 PM Response to Original message |
7. K&R we ALREADY HAVE our rights, the govt is violating them, it's their JOB to guarantee them nt |
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Yellow Horse (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-30-09 05:33 AM Response to Original message |
8. We've all heard this crap before and I for one am sick of it. |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-30-09 09:58 AM Response to Reply #8 |
12. The rhetoric can be nauseating, I agree. |
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demodonkey (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-30-09 06:38 PM Response to Reply #12 |
16. Wilms, the Pennsylvania House of Representatives was decided in 2006 on PAPER BALLOTS. |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-30-09 09:48 PM Response to Reply #16 |
18. Glad the recount happened in that particular case. |
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demodonkey (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-01-09 09:01 PM Response to Reply #18 |
19. The recount was requested by the losing candidate, as I recall. |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-02-09 05:49 AM Response to Reply #19 |
20. Looks like it was a count or re-count of absentee and provisionals. |
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Bill Bored (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-03-09 11:05 PM Response to Reply #19 |
21. If there were voter intent issues with the paper ballots, I think lever machines |
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demodonkey (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-05-09 06:49 AM Response to Reply #21 |
28. Well if history follows the pattern we will get a GOP Gov in 2010 |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-30-09 12:02 PM Response to Reply #8 |
15. "Real reform?" that's pretty funny....if you're referring to Holt's bill... |
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Yellow Horse (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-30-09 07:03 PM Response to Reply #15 |
17. You prefer the "dreary future" of paperless DREs for millions of voters if this bill doesn't pass?? |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-05-09 02:07 PM Response to Reply #17 |
33. I've been a major factor in getting rid of paperless DREs in my county at the time |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-30-09 07:22 AM Response to Original message |
10. OK, on these two arguments |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-30-09 09:48 AM Response to Reply #10 |
11. ...paper ballots have been used to correct election outcomes, and that will continue... |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-30-09 10:35 AM Response to Reply #11 |
14. did I say that paper ballots are ALWAYS used to correct election outcomes? |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-05-09 02:10 PM Response to Reply #14 |
35. We DO know the Holt bill is HEADED toward 100% hand counts, only statistics are used to limit work |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-10-09 04:59 AM Response to Reply #35 |
59. sorry I missed this |
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Bill Bored (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-04-09 12:58 AM Response to Reply #10 |
22. OK, let's compare! |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-04-09 01:16 AM Response to Reply #22 |
23. you know about the local election |
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Bill Bored (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-04-09 03:53 AM Response to Reply #23 |
24. Local elections can only be confirmed with full hand counts. |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-05-09 02:24 AM Response to Reply #23 |
26. I'm surprised this "lever" discussion is still going nowhere after a week. |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-05-09 08:23 AM Response to Reply #26 |
30. where can it go? |
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Bill Bored (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-05-09 01:06 PM Response to Reply #30 |
32. "...a paper audit trail that actually gets audited?" Yeah that. nt |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-05-09 02:09 PM Response to Reply #30 |
34. I'm not not interested? Pardon? |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-06-09 08:07 AM Response to Reply #34 |
36. maybe I'm misreading the posts, then |
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Bill Bored (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-06-09 05:41 PM Response to Reply #36 |
37. Slow down. |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-07-09 12:28 PM Response to Reply #37 |
38. mmm |
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Bill Bored (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-07-09 01:40 PM Response to Reply #38 |
39. I think I said vote switching DURING an election is impossible on levers. |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-07-09 02:17 PM Response to Reply #39 |
40. mmmmm |
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Bill Bored (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-08-09 12:03 AM Response to Reply #40 |
41. Couple of points: |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-08-09 08:03 AM Response to Reply #41 |
44. mmmmmmm |
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Bill Bored (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-08-09 01:12 PM Response to Reply #44 |
46. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-08-09 09:26 PM Response to Reply #46 |
50. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm |
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Bill Bored (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-10-09 05:47 PM Response to Reply #50 |
63. You win only because long subject lines have to separated with spaces. nt |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-09-09 07:37 AM Response to Reply #46 |
52. well, you don't know that |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-09-09 08:33 AM Response to Reply #52 |
54. Hmmm. Exit Polls. Andi Novick. |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-09-09 03:37 PM Response to Reply #54 |
55. Wilms, why are you blowing smoke about this? |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-09-09 09:03 PM Response to Reply #55 |
56. Me? |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-10-09 04:52 AM Response to Reply #56 |
58. sure |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-10-09 10:03 AM Response to Reply #58 |
60. And your doubt about Novick's legal strategy has been noted, repeatedly. |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-10-09 01:57 PM Response to Reply #60 |
62. huh? |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-10-09 10:34 PM Response to Reply #62 |
65. It's not the state board. It's ERMA. |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-14-09 05:48 AM Response to Reply #65 |
72. how is that a way to keep the levers? |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-14-09 09:21 AM Response to Reply #72 |
74. That's not how some see it. |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-14-09 11:31 AM Response to Reply #74 |
75. nu? |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-14-09 12:06 PM Response to Reply #75 |
78. How many more times do you want to go around this issue? |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-14-09 12:24 PM Response to Reply #78 |
79. so, your view is that the federal case is closed? |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-14-09 12:40 PM Response to Reply #79 |
80. That's a bit rude. |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-14-09 01:10 PM Response to Reply #80 |
81. I'm a bit frustrated |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-14-09 01:46 PM Response to Reply #81 |
82. How many more times to you want to go around that same point? |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-14-09 01:49 PM Response to Reply #82 |
83. you're only responsible for the weakness of your argument |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-14-09 02:12 PM Response to Reply #83 |
84. And I already told you there is the issue with the money NY took. n/t |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-14-09 02:35 PM Response to Reply #84 |
85. what part of "Section 301" do you find ambiguous? |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-14-09 02:41 PM Response to Reply #85 |
86. What part of I went over this with you last summer don't you get? |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-14-09 02:48 PM Response to Reply #86 |
87. you linked to nothing in particular |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-13-09 01:28 PM Response to Reply #62 |
68. links |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-14-09 09:11 AM Response to Reply #68 |
73. Nice work. |
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Bill Bored (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-14-09 11:58 AM Response to Reply #73 |
76. CORRECTION! Hockley-Delgado's margin was 47 votes -- not 67 votes. (Pretty close race.) nt |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-14-09 12:02 PM Response to Reply #73 |
77. lessee |
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WillYourVoteBCounted (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-10-09 12:31 PM Response to Reply #55 |
61. Wilms isn't -blowing- smoke |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-08-09 12:05 AM Response to Reply #38 |
42. Now I get it. In fact, you'd trust your vote in an inadequately audited computer tabulated election. |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-08-09 07:33 AM Response to Reply #42 |
43. I sometimes wonder |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-08-09 10:30 AM Response to Reply #43 |
45. Obviously there's no perfect system. |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-08-09 01:18 PM Response to Reply #45 |
47. grunt |
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Bill Bored (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-08-09 08:58 PM Response to Reply #47 |
48. When was the last time a scanner jockey mentioned anything about a scanner failure? |
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WillYourVoteBCounted (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-10-09 11:47 PM Response to Reply #48 |
66. BB, Im not trying to take your levers, but a fact or two here please |
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Bill Bored (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-11-09 02:26 AM Response to Reply #66 |
67. I spend about as much time on federal E.I. legislation as Bush spent on Bin Laden! |
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WillYourVoteBCounted (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-15-09 11:31 PM Response to Reply #67 |
88. maybe you should take the time to get to know your own US senators |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-08-09 09:24 PM Response to Reply #47 |
49. Don't worry. Be happy. |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-09-09 07:27 AM Response to Reply #49 |
51. that's incorrect |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-09-09 08:17 AM Response to Reply #51 |
53. I am mistaken. You did mention a problem attributed to a jam. |
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garybeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-04-09 11:24 PM Response to Original message |
25. This is misleading. |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-05-09 06:33 AM Response to Reply #25 |
27. Holt's 3/5/10% audit will not give a high statistical confidence in close elections. |
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demodonkey (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-05-09 06:53 AM Response to Reply #27 |
29. Andy wanted voter-verified paper ballots with meaningful audits, but he was also a realist... |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-05-09 08:47 AM Response to Reply #29 |
31. Andy wasn't alone in getting your "state's plight" wrong. |
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demodonkey (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-13-09 03:52 PM Response to Reply #31 |
69. Enough of this. I grow tired of being called a liar, and doing so is beneath you Wilms. |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-13-09 09:01 PM Response to Reply #69 |
70. No.I didn't call you a liar. |
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Bill Bored (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-14-09 04:25 AM Response to Reply #69 |
71. NY state is making no arguments for levers; the people of NY State are. |
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garybeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 01:49 AM Response to Reply #27 |
89. the article referenced in the OP is plain wrong |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 08:41 AM Response to Reply #89 |
90. I'm not defending Tobi, or her rhetoric. |
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garybeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 11:13 AM Response to Reply #90 |
91. I agree with you. I'm just saying it is wrong to say "making a bad system worse" |
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Wilms (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 07:53 PM Response to Reply #91 |
92. I agree with much of what you wrote. |
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WillYourVoteBCounted (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-10-09 12:13 AM Response to Original message |
57. here's my thoughts on this: |
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