NY: Columbia County Democratic Election Commissioner Virginia Martin Favors Lever Machines

[Wilms]

Martin favors lever machines

By Francesca Olsen
Hudson-Catskill Newspapers

Saturday, September 26, 2009

As part of a continuing campaign to keep lever voting machines in use in Columbia County and New York State, Democratic election commissioner Virginia Martin held her ground last week as a member of a panel concerning the machines and their use, speaking at the New York State Association of Counties (NYSAC).

snip

Under the state's Election Reform and Modernization Act of 2005 (ERMA), lever machines would be prohibited and would have to be replaced by computerized voting machines, either touch-screen or optical scanners. But ERMA doesn’t provide funding for counties and municipalities to replace their machines.

The federal Help America Vote Act of 2002 (HAVA), which inspired the ERMA legislation, does not require municipalities get rid of their lever machines or replace them with touch-screen or optical scanners.

snip

The board of supervisors did pass a resolution in support of keeping lever machines for use at the county level this year.

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“She was the only voice of reason,” said Doug McGivney, D-Kinderhook, speaking of Martin, who attended the NYSAC conference. “The state Board of Elections have never argued that HAVA does not require the destruction of the lever machines.

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“I actually love the technology of the optical scanners,” McGivney said. “But their safety has not been proven, certified, or in any way assured. As expensive as they are, they are cheaply made and nowhere near the security of an ATM machine. And we need the same quality for voting as we do for handling our money.”

“One of the problems in going to electronic voting is that we’re relying on hidden software to do the counting, and we really don’t know how that happens. We don’t know how software counts. The programmers know, but it’s not programmers who are at the county level, or the town level, or the poll site level,” said Martin. “The ordinary person does not understand how a computer counts votes.”

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http://www.registerstar.com/articles/2009/09/26/news/doc4abda3ed27502588422063.txt

[exboyfil]

1. One really big advantage for optical scanners

is the existence of paper ballots that should be secured at the highest level possible. These are available for recounts.

I am not in favor of any sort of non-document based ballot systems (such as touch screen or lever).

[MarjorieG]

2. Available, yes, but never counted and not to the degree needed. Levers are as transparent as gears

on bicycles, and we know if there is a problem. Not so with electronics. Ever. In this economy, which is bad and will be for a very long time, a change of equipment is at best optional and to a lesser choice, costing millions at local levels as unfunded mandates.

There has never been a full audit of an electronic election.

[clear eye]

3. Agree w/ your premise, but

the last election for the U.S. Senate from MN was the exception that proves the rule. There was a complete audit of that race, and look how long it took and how unwieldy it was. Even in that race where MN took every possible step to ensure accuracy, the envelope w/ the ballots from one machine went missing and they had to substitute the original results instead of recounting. No question levers are safer.

[MarjorieG]

4. Not complete, as I heard, but impotantly, MN scared everyone off paper audits.

[Bill Bored]

5. If pigs could fly they'd have wings!

No one in NY intends to hand count a single ballot more than they absolutely have to, and far fewer than that in fact! The so-called "audit" of optical scan machines is going to be a joke, like most post-election audits.

The issue is whether the votes are counted by software, or by something observable like an actual voting machine (lever machine that is -- the only kind). The levers can be observed. The software can't. And no one is going to hand count enough paper ballots to make up for that.

Go read the love letters from the NY counties about how much they want to audit their elections:
http://www.wheresthepaper.org/ECA_6210.18_concerns.pdf
http://www.wheresthepaper.org/NYSAC_IGR_05_6210regs2009FallConf.pdf
They talk as if vote counting computers were...well...lever machines!

And lots more reasons to keep levers here:
http://www.wheresthepaper.org/ny.html#WhyKeepLevers