MICHAEL MOORE R U a DUER coz SELL OUT is my word for u

[burn the bush]

he said on leno that shrub won coz he got more votes. Nothing about fraud. Nothing but shit about his own goddamned book. SELL OUT. Tried to go to his site to let him know but no contact number. MM=sellout

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. S-A-R-C-A-S-M

he is a master at it.

[burn the bush]

5. i sure as hell did not hear one hint of sarcasm in his voice

[propagandafreegal]

69. It went over your head cause it was very sarcastic

He said, to the poor dumb asses that voted for Bush he said HE was doing great, HE had healthcare etc.

[poppet]

2. contact links

are available at the bottom of MM home page - chech out the link that says "Hey Mike." I responded to your other post about MM with contact info. I didn't see the show but am sorry it was a disappointment.

[burn the bush]

6. thanks will go write my pal

that's P.A.L. like in the old days

[tk2kewl]

3. I found that almost as surprising as

his outfit and shave.

I approve of a cleaner image but I think at a minimum he should have acknowledged disenfranchisement if not fraud

[The Doctor.]

4. I'm sure he'll put something together...

But there's nothing he could do now.

He's seen as so partisan that nothing he said on Leno would have made any difference.

Wait till he does his next Documentary - I for one would bet he'll cover the fraud issue.

But there's little he can do now...


;)

[burn the bush]

9. yeah there's little any of them can do now? Like Kerry or the dem party

or the media or any of them mother fuckin asswipes. Maybe if just one of them had the balls to stand up and say something then this would have made msm. but no THERES NOTHING THAT CAN BE DONE NOW/

[politicasista]

11. So let's all turn on Kerry.

He let us down by saying he had our backs, really. ;-)

[pacalo]

29. We don't know for sure that he hasn't lived up to that.

I have faith in John Kerry. Everything I've read about his background is enough for me to remain faithful to him. He doesn't strike me as the type to show his cards until he's sure he can win the hand. That's why I don't buy Madsen's opinion regarding Kerry & why I think Jesse Jackson hasn't been given the insider's track into Kerry's game plan.

I'm sticking with Kerry.

[malatesta1137]

52. why don't you stick with Dukakis too

while you're at it?

[gristy]

13. yes, exactly.

[Truman01]

7. Michael Moore looks like a repuke?!!!! n/t

[pacalo]

15. Maybe his new make-over was meant as sarcasm.

I don't know what to think about his "Bush got more votes" comment. I feel like I'm in a bad dream. If there's any game-playing going on with Democratic leadership, it's wearing thin with me. What the hell is going on?

[burn the bush]

21. I'll tell you whats going on. we need to align ourselves with the ones

that are helping us like cobb. The democratic party is almost as full of as much shit as the republicans

[pacalo]

24. I've done that & will continue to support them. :)

[rodeodance]

57. What do you mean by "looks like"

[Virginian]

8. Shrub got more votes, but...

that doesn't mean more people voted for him.

If we draw attention to the recount, will a bunch of republican staffers form a mob to keep it from happening? Will team bush go to the Supremes to keep it from happening?

[Blue in the face]

16. I don't know if

you saw the show, but it was disturbing to me. From the beginning with the Freeper audience responding to Moore, to his responses about the election.

I want to believe more than anything. And I just posted late last night that Moore was the one claiming that the war in Afghanistan was all about creating a pipeline. I said then that Moore wouldn't believe that it wasn't stolen. But I have a hard time saying the same thing after tonight.

I would love to corner his ass and slap him right upside the head. I would hope that he would keep fighting for democracy. But I can't be so sure that he's on board right now. And I would have bet my house before that show. I never watch that jackass Leno, but I was really looking forward to Moore speaking out... He let me down, big time.

[pointsoflight]

10. He does post about the issues on his website.

If you follow what he says/posts on his web site, you certainly don't get the impression that he thinks everything is on the up and up. I wouldn't get too bent out of shape...he could be up to something. You could just send him a polite e-mail asking him whether he really thinks the election was legit. I bet he doesn't.

[pacalo]

22. Thanks for your voice of reason, pointsoflight.

I'm growing wearing of being jerked around about the obviously-stolen election. He also picked one of the most innocuous letters from his book to read aloud. He could have at least given his website address to read more samples of the letters he's received from the military.

I'm most interested in hope & that's why I was so disappointed in MM's interview.

[burn the bush]

28. way too late for a polite letter from me lol already sent one and not

a very pretty one either.

[dmac]

34. just don't look for an answer

I have written numerous emails and never get a response.

[liberal al zib]

12. Do not s ay this about MM

MM is our hero. MM should be running for President in the future, 2012, because Kerry will be President from 2004 to 2012. I bet you that Michael Moore will get a least fourty five states and 60% of the votes, and may be more.

[politicasista]

You have a positive attitude..

I thought the poop was going to hit the fan?

[consciousobjector]

17. I don't know...

He looked and sounded like a Stepford Michael Moore...not one note of humor or satire in his voice

[yourout]

23. Stepford....good one.

Better look for the brain implant.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

27. You're from Randolph?

My cousin lives down there with his wife and kids. He's in Iraq right now.

[autorank]

33. Welcome to DU! Good points.

Corporate America controls the media and we get manufactured news.
Corporate America now controls the voting machines and we get manufactured elections.

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

[meisje]

14. laughing all the way to the bank

[helderheid]

18. from the randi rhodes forum

"J. Marks
Posted: Nov 30 2004, 12:20 AM


Newbie


Group: Members
Posts: 32
Member No.: 14725
Joined: 6-November 04



He's acting awfully crawly-bum-lick at the moment. I wonder if he's:

(1) been threatened and fears for his life, or

(2) doesn't want to tip the dems hand to the repugs as to what's brewing and about to erupt.

Something doesn't add up!

"

I like #2

http://forum.therandirhodesshow.com/index.php?act=ST&f=22&t=39537&s=8aa4ecc0c478b8b40fb8070b185862a7

[seito]

26. I agree, something is up

Didn't he say he was threatened routinely, leading up to the election? He posts about the vote fraud issues on his site. He did gather video evidence in Florida and Ohio on election day. He has already announced a sequel to his movie.

Something is very amiss. I am not willing to say he rolled. This is just too bizarre, and my tin foil hat is sparking, so I think I will call it a night.

I am sure everything will be clear in the morning.

[NicRic]

66. something is up , in 4 years bushes 2nd term ! N/T

[intheflow]

30. He always has a heavy security patrol with him.

At a book signing I went to security made sure both hands were in clear sight from about 3 people back. When I got to him I thanked him for having the brass balls to say what no one else does. He laughed a very nervous laugh. I'm sure he gets death threats on a regular basis.

This is a guy with kids, a wife. Wonder if he's been getting kidnapping threats along with death threats.

He's coming up on Leno now, Mountain Time.

[Bonescrat]

19. This will not sway me from believing

in Mr Moore.

I thought I heard reports of him in Ohio filming the fiasco...

If I didn't here it, I would bet anything that he got it on film anyway.

He's always been on our side and I don't believe he's that fickle.

[wantkerryin]

20. [e-mail]

[e-mail] <---That's his email...use it, it gets checked on a daily basis, I've sent many e-mails that have not gone unchecked.

[pacalo]

36. He mentioned that he was in Ohio on election day.

Something's not right about his Leno appearance, but I choose to put my faith in MM. I don't think anyone has done more to shed light on Bushitler's background than MM.

I'm just tired of getting jerked around.

[intheflow]

41. Having seen the piece...

I have to say it was odd. Moore didn't make eye conact with Leno at all at first. He said some things that could be taken as sarcastic.

I do think he he was sincere when he said Bush got more votes. I'm not sure if that means he believes Bush got more votes legitimately.

BTW, I posted this above, but it never hurts to post it twice in case whoever is reading this missed it. Here's a link to a short film Michale Moore did about Ohio election disenfranchisement that featured Jesse Jackson. http://www.boingboing.net/2004/11/06/electionday_footage_.html

[intheflow]

39. Film from MM in OH on election day--with Jesse Jackson! Here's the link:

http://www.boingboing.net/2004/11/06/electionday_footage_.html

[dzika]

25. quote from Moore

From an email that was sent after the election:

"Finally and most importantly, over 55 million Americans voted for
the candidate dubbed "The #1 Liberal in the Senate." That's more
than the total number of voters who voted for either Reagan, Bush I,
Clinton or Gore. Again, more people voted for Kerry than Reagan. If
the media are looking for a trend it should be this -- that so many
Americans were, for the first time since Kennedy, willing to vote
for an out-and-out liberal. The country has always been filled with
evangelicals -- that is not news. What IS news is that so many
people have shifted toward a Massachusetts liberal. In fact, that's
BIG news. Which means, don't expect the mainstream media, the ones
who brought you the Iraq War, to ever report the real truth about
November 2, 2004. In fact, it's better that they don't."

[burn the bush]

32. i don't get it. why is it better?

[Cadence]

44. Because they'll spin it till it's dead.

They're in the business of killing any news that casts a negative light on the * administration. Think about all of the things they could be held accountable for and aren't. Why would this be any different? If they got a hold of this, I mean really got a hold of this, they would find a way to turn the issue around and get an even stronger strangle hold on the country. Who knows maybe they would make it unpatriotic to question diebold, so next election they can get away with even more.
I think we know Michael and know what he stands for. His ideals and opinions haven't changed. If he wasn't scared before, he's not scared now. I think we'll see more from him. He loves America too much to just give up.

[Truthbeknown]

31. Send him an e-mail,I did

Here it is.
You've lost a lot of respect from myself and a lot of your supporters.And also you looked a lot better with the beard and scruffy clothes.You sold us out(the ones who want to get Bush out of the White House) on the Jay Leno show on Monday.You got a lot of balls saying Bush won because "He got more votes".No shit,Sherlock but it was how he got them that you didn't have the balls to say.You didn't mention anything about the recounts going on.Your buddy,who you were holding hands with in New York at the RNC,Jesse Jackson, was in Ohio over the weekend trying to drum up support for the recount.That is what you should be doing.And to think I went to your movie twice and bought your dvd.You suck big time.You really look like you went over to W's side,What did he do?Pay you off or scare you off.Either way you owe a lot of people a lot of explaining.Fuck you.Hope you enjoy his tax breaks and make a lot of money protesting his war,ASSHOLE. [e-mail] and [e-mail]

[uberotto]

35. How Dare HE...

Express an opinion without Clearing it with you first.

So let me guess...

You get up every morning, look out your window at the world and say, "Yesterday was o.k., but what have you done for me today?"

[burn the bush]

37. aaaagghh! I already feel bad about the email i sent

I am still disapointed in the appearance and i guess we are just so desparate for someone to hear us, that i just got pisse off. But i guess it's not up to me to decide what MM does. I'm going to email him an apology real quick.

[Patsy Stone]

38. Posted on the other thread, also

Calm down, it was all on purpose.
Why was he clean shaven, in a suit, with his hair combed like Ralph Reed?
Couldn't it be that he's pretending (in a not subtle way) to have "assimilated" like he's given up and accepted the BS? Bush won, more votes. Where have we heard that before? Everywhere? Maybe the number one talking point ahead of "it won't change the outcome"?

Didn't you think you were looking at his evil twin? Do you believe that he just flipped, in four weeks, to them?

Don't you think people were expecting him to start railing, to be a big target of hate for them? Now, they have nothing to say. Bland appearance on bland Leno. And, why Leno?

Pleeeeze! O, ye of little faith!

[intheflow]

40. Leno's from Boston.

Could be pretty liberal. He also made a joke in his monologue comparing the contested Ukraine president-elect to George Bush--or at least said Ukraine's pres-elet had a brother named Jeb! That could be a clue right there.

[Patsy Stone]

42. yepper

it was scary, though, seeing him dressed like the Borg.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

43. Leno's a Democrat

I know, it's surprising, but I read a great interview by some LA writer who had accused him of pandering to the Repubs (by having Arnie on his show to announce, etc.). Leno was mad and called the reporter to set the record straight. He was careful, knowing his audience is probably as divided as the rest of the country, but he outright said he'd never voted for a Republican president.

As for MM, I didn't see it, but I'm guessing he's up to something. He's Michael Moore, after all. He's not going to just sit down and shut up. He was as close to what really happened on Nov. 2 as any of us, right in the middle of it. He knows. Let's give him some time, please.

[northamericancitizen]

45. My thoughts originally post in GD

Yes it is disappointing but


give him a break. Michael Moore had is life completely changed in the last year.

In the limelight all the time, having security around him, money he never dreamed of having, influence over millions of voters...

I think that his new way of dressing is coming from his advisers. Something like:" Change your image, you look like an old teenager"
You gotta look more credible.

So as it often happens it went completely on the other extreme.

Give the guy time to adjust and find a way of still being himself without antagonizing so many people because the way he dressed.

I am presuming that his ultimate goal is still to bring back Democraty and end the War. This could not have been changed overnight. In the next few months we will probably see him trying different cloths style.

As for his words, or lack of words about the electoral Fraud, I did not expect him to say anything about it. He did his share during the campaign.Right now a lot of people are working underground to expose it and he was probably told to wait for others to come forward about it.

IMHO

Lise

[GettysbergII]

46. MM screaming 'vote fraud' would not be taken serious.......

His silence on the vote fraud issue bothered me at first but then I gave it some thought. MM in a suit with an Oscar for Best Picture in one hand and a book based on 3000 letters from Vets of the Iraq War can be a very powerful voice. Kinda like Mahatma Ghandi carrying his sandals in his hand. Let's remember that the majority of the country is against having our children die in the Oil Wars now but he received nothing but nationwide scorn when he denounced the invasion at the Oscars. I think he'll be a thorn in the Bush adm side for the rest of the war.

Not saying I agree with his dedcision but its his to make and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on it. On the other hand I think it is time for the traditional 'suit-wearer's to join us electric rabble on the barricades.

[proudtobeadem]

47. I think he looked uncomfortable -even guilty saying

**sh got more votes. It was as if he was doing what he was asked to do -not what he wanted to. There was also something funny about how Leno asked him what happened, he was smiling but it seemed like he knew something (something he found to be hilarious). I don't know but I have a feeling something big is going down soon and MM's video will be a part of it. Maybe I'm just an eternal optimist??

[Paligal]

48. Watching it now. He isn't a sell-out

He is clearly disillusioned and pissed, hence the mock "assimilation" and defeatist attitude. But I am willing to bet he has a strategy in looking like he's become a good boy. There's no way, unless he had an absolute breakdown after the election and simply feels "what's the use. If you can't beat em, give them what they want." No, something's up. I suspect that he is playing this character, to bide time.
One thing I know is that there is no way I am going to jump down this man's throat. He has done more to expose this administration that any of us on this board, so who the hell are you calling a sell-out? He has spect the last 10 years being laughed at and threatened for his political opinions and great risks taken for the sake of democracy, so I hardly think this is the time to cast stones.

[ZRB]

49. Agreed

This is all an act from Moore. When the fraud has finally been fully exposed, his outrage will be all the more potent and understandable to "average Americans," when contasted to his "concession." Much like what I think will happen with Kerry.

[seito]

65. Jesse Jackson did the same thing

He was on CNN last week claiming Bush won "fair and square". Something was too weird about that Michael Moore sighting. Something is up. I don't know what, but something...

[loritooker]

50. he said Bush GOT more votes

He didn't say "more people voted for Bush". He said what's true: Bush "got" more votes. Michael has to be very careful not to be branded as a conspriacy theorist or some such silliness. That won't help. The suit was theatre. He was demonstrating all the good things bush was doing for him personally, like tax cuts. He didn't give any ground. Told some good stories, like about the stagehand that came up to him after seeing Fahrentheit 911 and apologizing for being rude to him at the Oscars the previous year...He seemed depressed and yet jovial at times, but it was sarcasm and I coud tell he's really there!

[loritooker]

51. by the way, I'm thinking of changing my username to "threadkiller"

[mirandapriestly]

54. Ha Ha, that is the way I always feel about my posts

I know how you feel. Your post was good though.

[LittleClarkie]

53. Anybody got a Little Orphan Annie decoder ring?

DUUD, wat's with dat secrit code you got goin' der. R U having a stroke? Should we call U an ambulance?

[thephaseshift]

55. Don't judge him too fast

I haven't seen the Leno interview since I'm living in Europe, but I HAVE been following Moore for years, and I have a feeling something's up that we don't know about. As I described in another thread, I was following his web site closely during and after the election. It was strange: DURING the election he had a sort of journal set up where people could write in with their voting experiences as they happened. He collected a huge number of complaints, mostly related to registration problems. His whole front page was centered on the election, calling on his 'video army' to film for him, saying that no irregularities will be tolerated, etc. In short - everything we would have expected of MM.

THEN, all of a sudden, towards the end of the election day his site froze. I can't actually remember what there was - either a 404 page not found, or a black screen with the web page title, or something like that. I think it went on like that for a couple of DAYS. He had disappeared. Then, an image of Bush appeared on his page, the one made up of the soldiers killed in Iraq. Then, another day later, a title for the picture 'The War President'. Another day or so and Moore had added a list of their names. Then, a list of reasons 'not to kill yourself' or something to that effect; it was written with grim, depserate humor. Finally, something like a week later, his site was back to normal, with the usual pages and links. He's been covering mostly the Iraq war in his blurbs and links, but a couple of times he linked to stories of voting irregularities. The weirdest is that he HAS NOT TALKED ABOUT THE ELECTION ITSELF since then. No mention on his page of the list of complaints, his filming, etc. It's very weird. I wrote him about the fraud but of course got no answer - he's probably got craploads of mail.

The point is - something happened to him. Either he's depressed out of his mind, or he has a comeback plan that requires him to lay low for now, or....he was threatened to stay off the fraud story. That's just an idea of mine, and I doubt it's true but it's not impossible if you ask me. I certainly thought the business with his web page after the election was weird. It's possible he had invested SO much energy into his anti-Bush campaign that the results (whether legit or not) were just too big of a letdown to recover from. He was/is in shock. OR....he was threatened into silence.

If you say he was strange on Leno...that would again fit all three theories (he has a plan, he's depressed, or he fears for his life). In any case two things are certain:
- he's been an amazing fighter for all of us for a damn long time
- for now we don't know squat about him or his life, so we shouldn't be jumping to conclusions.

Cheers

[rodeodance]

59. thanks for your post--yes--lets not jump to conclusions at this point

and NO--I did not see the show--but thanks all for your comments.

[Cherie59]

61. Your last line says it all- thanks

[ever_green]

56. What's new? Maybe we shouldn't rely on movie makers to lead our party

You think? He made a pretty penny off of F9/11, which was a whitewash, barely skimmed the surface of the scam.

[thephaseshift]

58. Our local paper

BTW, our local 'junk' paper had a post-election Q&A a couple of days after the election. One question asked something like 'What's MM's take on the election?', and the answer was: "MM claims to have proof that the election was stolen." So far I haven't found any such statements. I wonder if it was bad journalism (certainly possible given the paper I read it in) or if he said something somewhere we haven't heard of yet.

Anyhow, either he's up to something big or he's scared to death, that's what it sounds like to me. But it's all speculation for now.

[Cherie59]

60. He just seemed odd...

I couldn't put my finger on it. But he seemed uneasy,
nervous,or maybe he was being sarcastic? I saw him
when he came to Ames, Ia. during the slacker tour. No
way this man has rolled over and conceding Bush won
this election fair and square. Plus remember the
voter disenfranchisement he had in F911? Well the
same stuff went on again this time. Just hard to
imagine he doesn't see this. I don't know I am as
confused as everyone else. It just wasn't the same
passionate MM we have seen in the past. Weird.

[noclonyofthechimp]

63. I thought the same thing

He may know something and is patiently waiting.

[tngledwebb]

62. Moore has no credibility and will be of no use

except to the already converted. He may be for real, or naive, or keeping quiet for good or bad reasons, or just selling books.
In any case he's not useful for voting issues.

[Avalux]

64. Everyone take a deep breath

Michael Moore was genius last night - his appearance, his comments - all perfect. If any of you take what you saw at face value, you're not trying hard enough. Geez.

[peekaloo]

67. thank you.

"I got my tax cut, Jay got his tax cut".

Took a nice shot at the Chimperor and the 'Murkan people for buying the megaphone on a pile o' rubble shtick.

It's all about appearance, isn't it? ;-)

[genieroze]

68. here is his e-mail

[e-mail]

[WritersBlock]

70. No way, no how.

I'll believe that John Ashcroft is a card-carrying member of the ACLU before I'll believe that Michael Moore has sold out.