I sense a slowing of momentum and hope

[Fescue4u]

Even in this forum. Maybe even especially in this forum.

I suppose its natural and to be expected, but nonethless is depressing to think about another 4 years of fascism.

Even myself I'm dissapointed to see only statistics and graphs and 600 different interpetations of the statistics, but sadly few cold hard facts that can be used as a club to beat the opposition.


I guess its time to hunker down and deal with reality, but Im not quite ready for that either.

[New Earth]

1. dont give up so soon

it's not just stats we need, it's recounts. And there's about 4 of them about to take place :) Bev Harris has evidence leading to fraud. Dozens of lawsuits are being filed. We have Wayne Madsen's story to ponder. It's the TRYING that matters most. We can't give up and lay down to die. We have to fight, even if we lose. Not fighting is worse than fighting and not winning.

But hoping to win doesn't hurt either :)

[jamboi]

26. Surely you jest.The momentum is totally picking up as fraud uncovered. n/t

[IAMREALITY]

43. Totally With Ya Jamboi!!!!

We got the Madsen story, more MSM (albeit slowly) picking it up, JJ getting involved, Katherine Blackwell running scared and ready to cry on Olbermann, lawsuits sprouting up all over the place.

Momentum slowing? To believe that you'd have to be totally in the dark!

[berniew1]

60. Strong indications of major electronic glitches or fraud in Ohio counties

Strong indications of major electronic glitches or fraud in Ohio in several counties

In analyzing the still-unofficial results, the totals reveal that C. Ellen Connally, an African-American Democratic candidate from Cleveland running for Ohio Chief Justice, received more than votes than Kerry in many counties. For example in Butler County, Connally received 5347 more votes than Kerry. The list of the counties where Connally actually outpolled Kerry include Auglaize, Brown, Butler, Clermont, Darke, Highland, Mercer, Miami, Putnam, Shelby, Van Wert, and Warren.

The reason the Kerry vote counts are suspect is because Connelly, a retired African-American judge, was vastly outspent in her race, and did not have the visibility of the presidential race. Thus for a more obscure Democratic candidate, farther down on the ticket, to get many more votes statewide than Kerry, suggests something happened to suggest there may have been a transfer of Kerry votes to Bush. ""Statistically, Kerry, as the Democratic presidential candidate, should have more votes than Connally. In a presidential election, most voters have the priority of casting a vote for president and the votes for president are almost always much higher than those of candidates farther down the ticket. As of election night, 5,481,804 votes were counted for Bush and Kerry. 4,327,270 votes were counted for Moyer and Connally.

""This looks like a computer glitch or a computer fix,"" said Bob Fitrakis, a lawyer, political scientist and Editor of the Columbus Free Press (http://freepres.org) who has written about election irregularities since Bush was declared the winner. Fitrakis is among the team of lawyers who announced they would soon file an election challenge in the state’s Supreme Court.

[Kellis]

61. Yeah really.

This is the MOST hopeful Iv been since Nov 1st 2004 dude.

[tinfoil_beret]

30. We don't need recounts!

We don't need recounts! Recounts will not show anything. The most they will do is stall things, but we need support from someone who will do something about the proof. We have the proof. We can prove it. Any forensic accountant can testify that John Kerry won in both Ohio and Florida. We need to seek injunctions to block the electoral votes of both states, on the grounds that obstacles blocking access of voters to polling machines affected enough people to change the outcome of the election in those states.

John Kerry would have won any legitimate election, and we can prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. How do they usually prove fraud? With forensic accounting. In Columbus, Ohio alone Kerry lost over 17,000 voters due to poor access to voting machines, and the numbers prove it. You'll find the same in most of the larger democratic areas in both Florida and Ohio. The numbers show a pervasive pattern of systematic suppression of voters.

Any layman can prove it, and any forensic accountant can testify to it. We have the proof!

[marions ghost]

38. Can forensic accountants help?

I'm not up on such points of law. Forensic accountants -- as used in Enron and stuff?

Have these forensic accountants got a track record in the courts re. voting issues? Were they used in 2000? I agree the "proof" is most likely there, but does it really hold up a case of fraud? Surely the legions of lawyers out there have been considering this angle?

[FreeCajun]

51. I think so...

I saw a website where someone had done just such an analysis...I'll look for it and let you know.

[tinfoil_beret]

52. Yes, plain old forensic accountants.

Of course, experience with elections wouldn't hurt.

Any forensic accountant has enough statistical background and legal background to tell you for a fact that John Kerry won the election.

They have plenty of voter affidavits to support the forensic accounting evidence.

Do they have track records in the courts? I don't know. I would think they used some forensic accounting in that 2002 debacle. Any case of election fraud ever tried had to use some form of forensic accounting or statistical analysis. Unless they have witnesses, how else do they prove fraud?

Not only is the proof "most likely there", it IS there. I've seen it.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/30/71935/724

You'll see the same thing in several Ohio counties, and you'll see the same thing in Florida. It's a pervasive pattern. Yes, there are other patterns, such as the disproportionate number of spoiled ballots in Democratic counties. (Perhaps the Glibs want to look at those spoiled ballots to see if a large percentage of them are good ballots.) But while they're waiting for Blackwell to certify the results so that they can start counting, they must go to court for injunctions regarding this huge mess.

We don't know what the lawyers have considered, because they haven't said anything! Perhaps they're looking at it as we speak. I'll send a summary to Kerry's lawyer tomorrow. I'm just so tired of writing these letters and only receiving automated replies in return. I wish I could talk to a human being, but how do I reach these people when they all have other people intercepting their calls and taking messages that their bosses may or may not return?

[BradBlog]

53. NY DAILY NEWS: 3rd Party Candidates Out-Polled Bush in OH!

Precinct-by-Precinct Analysis of Cuyahoga County Shows Disturbing Trends.
As Another Mainstream Media Outlet Enters the Investigation!
Full story: http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001005.htm

This is actually rather huge news, that DAILY NEWS is now on the case. But, despite being a fairly regular DU feature writer, I don't have enough creds here yet to post it as a new item.

If anyone else does, please feel free to repost and kick it!

Most importantly, there is a link at the story above that you can use to send a THANK YOU NOTE to the DAILY NEWS! Let's flood them with love!!!

Brad
The BRAD BLOG
http://www.BradBlog.com

[IAMREALITY]

54. WELCOME TO DU BRAD!

:toast:

[BradBlog]

67. BUT THAT'S NOT ALL!

Thanks IMAREALITY...but as the title says, that's not all!

Also breaking today...

Activist OH County Judge Halts Green/Lib Recount!
And it's the KERRY/EDWARDS Campaign to the Rescue!!!
http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001007.htm

Please do what you can to kick these two items. I'm more than happy if anybody wants to start new items on both of these as *each* deserve much notice today and I don't yet have the creds to do it.

Feel free to post the info from the article without a link to my site if you wish, but this news needs to get out here!

Brad
THE BRAD BLOG
http://www.BradBlog.com

[darthdemocrat]

56. Rome was not built in a day

This is about more than just whether Kerry wins and is inaugurated. How long have the fascists been at work building up to where they are at now?

We have to be prepared to fight, fight and then fight some more. Even armed with the truth it may take an agonizing amount of time and more effort than we ever thought it could take. Along the way there may be blessings in disguise. I can't tell you how many people I heard bitching about Ralph Nader running this time but in the end he's an undeniable help, isn't he?

Let's hope for something beautiful but be prepared to slug it out over time if that's what it takes to get it.

[tbuddha]

2. Oh would sorry punks like you please go away!

Quit your crying! Jesus, so many good things are happening if you would just open your eyes. People are coming together in protest, the media buzz gets louder everyday, the rhetoric gets stronger, recounts are happening, lawsuits are being filed.

We are much better off than when I first got involved in this effort. Unlike you, I get more excited everyday.

If you are so worried...DO SOMETHING!!!

[Fescue4u]

9. maybe we should all go away?

Yea, that'll fix things :eyes:

Sure, I see action and I'm taking action myself..but the reality is that I see it slowing and regardless, it appears to be to little to late to save a Jan 20th disaster.

Im afraid the best we can hope for it to stave off another disaster in 4 years. I think this one is a done deal :(

[SueZhope]

24. remember a crime is a crime

and there will hopefully be justice soon

Perhaps its not going to work out in the exact time frame we would like it to , the way we would like it to , there is hope here.....

The more the MSM has tried to debunk and put the kibosh on it something new happens that they have to report.

This is not over......we have only just begone the fight
Just because we are not seeing the results does not mean theres nothing going on

[meganmonkey]

32. The reality is that very little can be done until the vote is certified

in Ohio, in particular. Recounts can't start until first counts are said and done. And we are hitting that point this week. Blackwell is likely going to certify Ohio's vote tomorrow. At that point, the recount efforts are going to begin. The time frame sucks, but we knew that on Nov 3 - we would have to be patient. Lawsuits are being filed all over the place, some recounts(at least one) have already started, the MSM is picking up on it, lots of us are going to Columbus Saturday, the following Saturday rallies are being planned in all the capitols - as long as we keep making noise this thing won't die.
Will Kerry be inaugurated on Jan 20? The odds are slim but if we give up the odds are ZERO. And there is more to this than a Kerry win. This is about the integrity of our democracy. This is about making sure that we will have a chance to win some seats in 2006 and winn the presidency in 2008. If we don't keep forcing the big issue - that of fraud and no accountability or transparency in our elections - we will never win again. I refuse to accept that!

DON'T GIVE UP - PLEASE!!!

:)

[Patsy Stone]

55. OK!

I posted like almost the exact same thing below. I didn't see yours or I would have heartily agreed and not had to type so damned much! :) Rock on!

[T Town Jake]

35. Expressing an honest opinion on DU does not make one a "sorry punk"...

...and who put you in charge, anyway?

[Joe Chi Minh]

3. I think your senses

need a good overhaul. A good Ear Nose and Throat (Asal, Nasal and Thrasal) specialist should do the trick. Report back and let us know how you fared.

[Fescue4u]

8. It wouldnt be the first time :)

I hope your're right.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Hey Barney Franks told us the other day what to do

see he said, we have no recourse....

Where have I heard this before? Oh yeah... the Declaration

It is up to us now... and we can do so much....

So DO SOMETHING

[Roger_Otip]

5. it's time to demonstrate

what did you expect? if democracy has been stolen the thieves aren't just going to hand it back. you're going to have to fight for it. if you don't you'll end up with the government you deserve.

[pacalo]

12. Your post reminds me of the quote in one of my e-mails today...

"If you think of yourselves as helpless and ineffectual, it is certain that you will create a despotic government to be your master. The wise despot, therefore, maintains among his subjects a popular sense that they are helpless and ineffectual." -- Frank Herbert

[jsamuel]

6. I don't sense that at all - I sense ANTICIPATION!

something is going to happen...

yes, right now it feels like we are just sitting on out bung, but that is because we are waiting for it to happen...

Just what is "it", I don't know...

[SueZhope]

13. Im with you jsamuel

I feel that something in the air...

[Catamount]

14. Anticipation

Me too!
We must never give up!

[Paradise]

7. I'm with you. n/t

[AtlantaBob]

10. It got me off my ass

I went to a smirking chimp meetup last week, going to a DFA meetup tomorrow night and a peace rally Saturday.

Before, I was content to send and occassional $25 to moveon.org or the DNC. Now i'm looking to get involved.

[Straight Shooter]

11. That's odd. I am sensing precisely the opposite.

There is a crack in the wall of the MSM. Slide your crowbar into it and start prying. Promise yourself that every time you think there is no hope, you'll write a letter to an editor, or send an e-mail, or contribute a few bucks to an organization fighting this tainted election.

Then you will feel ever so much better :)

[Fescue4u]

15. Thanks

I appreciate the encouragement and ideas

[witchhazl]

16. I don't believe that! The recounts have not even really begun!

I know how you feel, believe me, and I agree that i feel pessimism reflected in more posting lately. But I think it's just the lack of real action. We need the rally in Columbus on Dec 4. We need the recounts to start. We need something tangible to happen.

But I think I'm pretty objective about things, and I'm far from giving up. The MSM is just beginning to crack. When recounts in Ohio start, we'll get a lot of (negative) press! But that's ok-- we'll have a chance to get heard then! All the impressive academic studies & testimonials will get attention then. All the fishy doings, from Warren County to Volusia County and BBV. Better days ahead!

NGU!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

17. You sound suspicious to me -- Trolling through looking for facts

I hope I am wrong

[Fescue4u]

20. um welll

You sound suspicious to me to

:)

Ghessh.

[shraby]

23. I think part of the problem you're having is

that we check EVERY day for some news that's good. It makes it seem like forever for things to break. Similar to "a watched pot never boils" type thing.
In the meantime, make as many people as you can become aware that there are recounts happening and problems with election results absolutely everyplace...believe it or not, due to our diligent MSM, lots and lots of people don't even know there is a problem with the election.

[Fescue4u]

29. Wow that makes alot of sense

definitely the watched pot syndrome.

[Habibi]

34. Excellent point, shraby!

Damn, I really shouldn't check this forum and LBN every 5 frikkin' minutes, like I do!

[SmokingJacket]

63. Yeah: Yesterday's drama becomes old news SO fast! n/t

[T Town Jake]

36. Wow. I've seen some panache in my time at DU...

...but a newbie with all of 92 posts accusing a member of long-standing of "trolling" takes the cake... :eyes:

[RaulVB]

18. Weird timing...

You chose the wrong time to post your comments.

In fact, the whole issue is gaining momentum and the MSM is conceding ground by the minute!

[Fescue4u]

22. I truly hope your're right

But Ohio is days away from certification of the election and its going to take ALOT more than an MSM article to stop it.

[RaulVB]

25. Yes, but...

As other have said before the official time frame for an invalid election is also not valid.

If the whole process is invalid (and that's the case), we don't need to care about technicalities, including certification and other formal procedures.

[ClassWarrior]

19. I DON'T!!

I'm seeing a little more reason for hope every day! And as far as this forum goes, I fear it's infested and I often find myself in the role of a can of Raid... But we gotta do what we gotta do.

NGU.

[Terre]

21. I don't feel quite that way

As a matter-of-fact I personally feel things are just now starting to gain some momentum. I hope I'm right.

Unless a whistleblower comes forward, there is not going to be the "cold hard facts" that you're looking for.

All we have to go on are the stats, polls, and testimony of the disenfranchised, etc., etc., etc.

You have plenty of time later on, if necessary, to hunker down and deal with "4 more years." No need to hasten it.

[Senator]

27. There is still time...and hope

But we MUST change the FRAME of the issue. We can still cut the anti-democracy propagandists off at the knees.

The current frame is:

"Move along now. We've got our "ofishyl" vote count - you have to prove a crime was committed or you'll be ignored."

The NEW FRAME is:

"Your vote-counts are demonstrably false (not just uncertain), demostrably discriminatory (unlawful), both racially and in favor of bush voters.

"You must provide a transparent audit of your election procedures, failures, and data of all kinds OR WE INTEND TO DEMAND that your state's electors be DISALLOWED on Jan. 6th in Congress."

This new frame must be propogated amongst ourselves first. The short version is that "they have the burden of proof." And this goes for ALL states, not just swingers. They boosted totals everywhere to manufacture the pop-vote propaganda tool.

We must convince, first ourselves, then our supposed "leaders" and allies, of the Constitutional Right we have (equal protection - Bush v. Gore, heh) to demand this proof. And put our leaders on notice that they HAVE THE DUTY to support us in this. It is not optional.

Please watch my diary at dKos, as I will soon be posting a "Declaration of Intention" document that we will be attempting to get signed by ALL Members of Congress.

The declaration will require them to confront whether they will becoume complicit with the racist, treasonous election thieves or act on their own principles and beliefs.

It's a simple choice.

--

[Habibi]

28. I understand,

but I'd like to think of this period as not so much "hunkering down" as "going into the trenches." This is a long-haul operation. Long hauls require a husbanding of energies and a development of strategies. That's what I believe we are doing now.

Yes, my outrage has cooled somewhat. Outrage is tiring. But I feel outrage being replaced with a quiet and immovable determination-- transforming into a realization that a few weeks of frenetic activity isn't going to do it for us.

Hey, the civil rights activists of the mid-20th century didn't give up when they were ridiculed, threatened, harrassed, and attacked. They kept slogging along, until change was accomplished.

I keep hearing the song "We shall overcome" in my head, and I believe that that is true.

Peace.

P.S: "We shall not be moved" is a great song, too!

[dzika]

31. Photos from Demonstration in CA

Take a look at the photos from a demonstration in California

http://www.indybay.org/news/2004/11/1707625.php


-snip-
"The demonstration, organized by the Wellstone Democratic Club of Silicon Valley, and by The Dean Democratic Club of Silicon Valley, was to protest the Media's near complete silence concerning voting irregularities in the 2004 presidential election."

[RevolutionStartsNow]

42. Thanks for posting those! That cheered me right up!

Great signs!

[Habibi]

50. Neat photo!

Makes me feel a little braver for attending my local protest on Thursday!

See? It just takes a smidge. Now, if someone could just come up with a better sign idea than mine, which is: Cover the Recounts: OH,NV,NM,NH!! (Rochester, NY's protest against the media blackout.)

[Lisabtrucking]

33. Great link check out bush won get over it.

Check out the clip bush won get over it. this is what we are fighting for. you will agree Watch http://www.notthistimegeorge.org/

[Patsy Stone]

37. Never expected the fraud to go so far...

I expected that we would all have to watch and wait until Ohio was certified before anything could happen. I knew it would be a loooong wait, and that we would be close to getting ourselves all in an uproar, and burning people in effigy and worshiping idols before it happened.

I have always maintained that the only way for this to work out was a recount in Ohio. In the beginning, I was depressed that he conceded, but then it all sunk in. The fraud issue, while I always knew something smelled rotten, is, for me, like an early Chanukah present. Who knew we'd be so lucky? It keeps it in the news, and the people here helped do that! You go!!!

I've read a lot of posts here on DU about losing faith and blasting MM for "selling out" and the lack of cojones of the DNC and Kerry.
I do not believe that the deafening (sp?) silence is by coincidence. I do not believe that MM showing up on Leno, looking like a Ralph Reed clone, was coincidence. I do not believe that the democrats that you do see grinning like a Cheshire Cat are coincidences.

Why did Kathering Blackwell finally show up on KO last night when he was talking about JJ? Not a coincidence. The suspense is killing me. The waiting, as Tom Petty said, really is the hardest part.

If JK/JE do not stick themselves in this, I will be the first to call them on it, but I haven't given up yet. If the man is known for integrity, why should I believe that he won't turn the boat into the enemy, or pull me out of the water? It's too soon to bitch.

As for the slowing of momentum, I think you're wrong. I also, in some weird way, as I posted last night, believe that the endless coverage of the situation in Ukraine is coincidental. I believe that they are trying to tell JK and us something, "We can't say it out loud, because we'll get in trouble, but we're with you. We won't crucify you JK/JE if you wanna come out and say the "F" word. We can't stand not getting follow-up questions and being controlled..."

Maybe that last bit is a little tinfoil, but hey, if I'm gonna be optimistic, why no go whole hog???

[righteous1]

41. One thing is for sure

Being that JK cannot win with just the Ohio provisionals; proving significant fraud is paramount. Out of the 93,000 under and over votes the Florida model shows that as many as 40% of these can be deciphered. If 75% of those go to Kerry he could pick up an additional 20,000 votes here. 115,000 likely Bush lead after provisionals - 20,000 = 95,000. That is the hurdle, finding 95,000 votes in the recount

[Patsy Stone]

49. I still wanna see

the final certified difference in Ohio. All those weird things have to be resolved to our close scrutiny. The few extra thousand here, the double scanned ballots there...and like that. Also, if there was some malicious ghost in the machine (entirely possible), we'll find that out from the recount. You have to recount all the ballots, so that will give us all new totals, no doubt, to try and find votes from in those 93K spoiled under/overs.

And, as we already discussed, the fraud possibility is actually a twofer. Ohio and EVERYWHERE ELSE! Yay!

Anywho...I'l be very interested to see the thrid party totals certified by Katherine Blackwell. I want to go meet those Perotka voters. :)

[Wordie]

39. I don't know you, but maybe watching Olbermann's show would help. It's

Countdown on MSNBC and tonight he will feature Jesse Jackson who will be there to rebut charges about him that the SoS of OH, Ken Blackwell, made about him during last night's program. Keith Olbermann has been running a blog where he is covering a lot of what is going on, here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/

The recent news about the glibs recounting in NV and NM is also quite a positive development. It's just very hard sometimes, coming here and not always knowing who to listen to. I think there really are some Free Republic people who come here, to lead people astray.

[Patsy Stone]

45. I think JJ jumped the gun in a way

same with the Ohiodems. I think they let the cat out of the bag too soon and will back peddle away from JK involvement.

Will say the F word though. Many many times.

[Wordie]

57. Hope is on the way! Kerry people have acted to support glibs in OH!

Read more here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=94805&mesg_id=94805

[YellowDoginthehouse]

40. You need to put your sensor in the shop....n/t

n/t

[seito]

44. I see the momentum increasing

There are a lot of interesting posts in this forum. The opinions seem to fall within four categories.

Many would deem themselves "realists" and are banking the odds that we will not win. They tend to say that we need to look at our mistakes, fix them and move on. They are clearly focused on a long term fix for the Democratic party and the election process.

Many are hurting and feel betrayed because they do not know what is really going on. They feel frustrated and angry because they see all the great work being accomplished and they ASSUME that the Democrats and John Kerry are not currently helping in this fight.

The other group are the optimists that believe that no matter how bad it gets there is always hope. They tend to post and kick the "I Believe" thread and celebrate the great accomplishments that are being made everyday.

People from all three of these groups are doing fantastic work and we owe them a tremendous debt. We need realists and optimists and skeptics to move forward.

Let us not forget the fourth group for these have truly infiltrated the ranks. You will not recognize them by thread count alone, for many are in deep cover. They tend to pop up in the middle of a thread with a personal attack designed to hijack the message of the thread.

[kk897]

46. you might look at the thread I started on "how are you coping"

maybe you'll get some ideas there...

and maybe people won't be so quick to jump on others when they express sadness and depression.

[pick_a_dilly]

47. stay strong DU PATRIOTS

may be news to you . . .

Kerry Campaign Files Brief in Ohio! Recount in NM, NV!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/30/183635/38


ummmmm --- this is good right?

NEWS RELEASE

For immediate release: ÊNovember 30, 2004
Contact: Ê Blair Bobier, Media Director at 541.929.5755

STATEMENT FROM THE GREEN PARTY PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN CONCERNING JOHN KERRY'S INTERVENTION IN OHIO RECOUNT COURT CASE

Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Today, attorneys representing the Kerry-Edwards campaign filed papers in Delaware County, Ohio to intervene in legal proceedings in defense of Green Party presidential candidate David Cobb, Libertarian Michael
Badnarik and their legal counsel, the National Voting Rights Institute, who
are seeking a recount of all votes cast for president in the Ohio 2004
general election.
Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê On November 23, at the request of the Delaware County Board of
Elections, a ÊDelaware County judge issued a temporary restraining order
against Green Party presidential candidate David Cobb, Libertarian Michael
Badnarik and the National Voting Rights Institute, seeking to prevent them
from initiating a recount of the presidential vote in that county.
Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê The judge issued the order without first consulting the
candidates or their attorneys.
Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê "The Cobb-LaMarche Green Party presidential campaign has been
leading the effort to seek a recount of the presidential vote in Ohio. ÊWe
are seeking a recount to protect the integrity of the voting process, to
protect the right to vote and to ensure that all votes are counted fairly
and accurately. Ê The Cobb-LaMarche campaign has been joined in this effort
by the Libertarian presidential campaign. ÊWe believe that all presidential
candidates should support the recount in Ohio to remove any cloud of
suspicion cast on the election results. ÊWe welcome the support of the
Kerry-Edwards campaign for the recount and we call upon the Bush-Cheney
ticket to offer their support for this multi-partisan effort as well," said
Blair Bobier, Media Director for the Cobb-LaMarche Green Party presidential
campaign.
Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê The Cobb-LaMarche campaign is currently seeking recounts of the
presidential vote in New Mexico and Nevada, in addition to Ohio. ÊFor more
information, see the campaign website, http://www.votecobb.org. ÊInformation
about the Green Party can be found at http://www.gp.org. Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê
______________

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[e-mail]
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[Avalux]

48. SLOWING? Not a Chance you party pooper!

Kerry intervenes in Ohio:

http://www.votecobb.org/press/2004/nov/pr2004-11-30b.php

We're just getting started!! :bounce:

[KAZ]

70. Fesc has been doing nothing but poo-pooing...

for days. Don't bite.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proudtobeadem]

59. You better stop sensing and get reading cause there's a whole lotta

hoping going on in here now! :)
Read this and rejoice!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=94805&mesg_id=94805

[pointsoflight]

62. Look again. The movement is clearly gaining speed.

The issue wasn't even in the MS media just a few days ago, now it's all over the place. New recounts are being sought in NV and NM, lawsuits have been filed in OH and FL, Jesse Jackson joined the cause, Kerry/Edwards joined the cause, etc.

What are you looking at?

[NY lib NY]

64. Calm before the storm....

If their is a slowing of momentum (which I dont think)it is merly the calm before the storm that is Votergate!

[Donailin]

65. It's a roller coaster of emotions

to be sure. Some days I can totally imagine the chaos as the story builds momentum in the media, but then the Ukraine thing happens and I get deflated, I think that the window of oppurtunity has passed us by. But then I try to adjust my perspective and think of the longer view. Watergate took many months to develope; just a sloppy break in that seemed insignificant at the time and then within months Nixon is resigning. OTOH, the media was much more astute back then, they did not take part in the politics of personal destruction, but stuck to the cold hard facts, and crimes. Now, we have a media that is corporate controlled, but we also have the internet which enables us, enobles us, to organize on a mass scale. And comfort one another.

So here are the scenarios that I entertain:

A) The story breaks the MSM and there turns out to be eveidence of fraud with a revote in Ohio. Kerry wins. Stop the presses, reality becomes surreal in the opposite direction of what we are living through now.
B) The story takes a long time to break, Bush is inaugurated with hundreds of thousands protesting his day and he has four years of a divided nation. We continue to fight for paper ballots and organize like hell to make sure that the senate loses republican seats and we demand a decent politician for 2008. And NOT Hillary. Godamn her. The Clintons could put their neck out for the preserverence of democracy, but instead prefer the status quo so she can run in 08. Fuck that. I want someone with the guts to represent the liberals and their values in this country.

C) Bush is inaugurated, we all show up and turn our back, the war in Iraq continues, the story makes headway and within a year evidence of fraud comes out and Bush is impeached by the money trail. Personally, I like this scenario best. I want to boo that son of a bitch out the door in disgrace.

D) It's Bush for 4 more, but the war gets much worse in Iraq and folks in the red states start protesting because the body bags are too many to count. Nothing changes wrt abortion or gay marriage, the red states figure out that without the blue states paying taxes, the red states start paying more in state taxes and go broke. They rue the day they ever voted for Bush. Oh, and Pat Robertson is busted in a homosexual realtionship with a 16 year old boy. <---you can always tell the favorite sins of someone by listeniing to the ones they constantly harp about others doing.

E) Bush is inaugurated, blah blah blah, yada yada yada, a terrorist blows up DC and kills all the politicians. Hopefully, I'm out of town that week.

F) Bush is inaugurated, we go to war in Iran, there's a draft and everyone leaves the country or refuses to serve.

G) <---The God Scenario. The Rapture occurs and Jesus comes and makes it known that Babylon the Harlot is in fact Amerika, since we own the country we broke. All the left behind readers are the ones that, well, get left behind while all the poor, meek and oppressed inherit the earth. That would be cool if the rapture thing is true.

You can only assume one thing, whatever happens it will be interesting. My advice, and the advice given me is this: Live every day as though it were your last, love the people you know and you don't know. Make the world a better place through acts of kindness and charity, center your life on giving, not receiving while at the same time work for justice. I think Jesus said it this way, "Be wise as serpents and gentle as doves"

Don't stress out too much because it doesn't add one day to your life. At least that's what I keep telling myself.

[gorbal]

66. Don't lose hope!

Don't lose hope. Stuff is happening!!!! CASE is having a rally this weekend with Greg Palast-
http://caseohio.home.mindspring.com/

If you can't go, keep this thread kicked-

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x86499

and share the info everywhere:)

[Eloriel]

68. Then you must not have been paying attention

On the contrary, things are on the uptick.

Maybe you should check out these threads so you're more up to date:

VOTE FRAUD LINKS - A DU Compendium - Thread #4
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=201&topic_id=6166&mesg_id=6166

VOTE FRAUD LINKS - A DU Compendium - Thread #3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x4927

VOTE FRAUD Links Compendium - Thread #2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x3223

VOTE FRAUD Links - a DU Compendium
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=1984#

[Hobbes199]

69. KerryCo stepping in! BevBV filing lawsuits! JJ on KO! Recounts in NV,NM!

It's gonna be a good week, is all I'm saying.