Boston Globe: Voting Errors Tallied Nationwide

[Rose Siding]

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/12/01/voting_errors_tallied_nationwide?pg=3

December 1, 2004
snip>
No group has been more aggressive than Seattle-based Black Box Voting, which bills itself as ''consumer protection for elections." Led by founder Bev Harris, the organization is seeking election records from around the country for audits of the results. The primary focus is Florida, where internal computer records have been requested in all 67 counties, and the results in glitch-plagued Volusia County, in the east-central part of the state, are being contested.
....
''All day long, I get desperate calls from people who are in so much pain," said Harris, the Black Box founder, who said she is convinced fraud occurred in some places Nov. 2. ''They say: Can you fix it? Can you solve it? Can you turn around the presidential election? We're not trying to turn the election around. We're trying to get elections to be more transparent, because with the new machines, it's not transparent."

Deanie Lowe, Volusia's supervisor of elections, said she has complied with Harris's record requests and offered to recount, free of charge, any three of Volusia's 179 precincts selected by Harris.

Harris, however, said records for all precincts were not turned over, and Black Box will seek a 50-precinct recount in the county, which Kerry won but by a smaller margin than Gore did in 2000....MUCH MORE

[rockedthevoteinMA]

1. Right on!! n/t

[Karenca]

2. This is a fantastic article

Thank you---We should keep tjis kicked and Nominate for HomePage.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dewaldd]

4. kick

[Quakerfriend]

5. Thnks for sharing it with us! n/t

[Rose Siding]

6. Here's another in-depth piece from the North County News

Kerry clutches to hopes of recount victory
http://www.northcountynews.com/view.asp?s=11-24-04/news5.htm

The way the reporter ties the WA Times to Moon leads me to believe this is a friendly site!:

On November 17, Blackwell wrote an op-ed piece for Rev. Sun Myung Moon's Washington Times, stating "every eligible voter who wanted to vote had the opportunity to vote. There was no widespread fraud, and there was no disenfranchisement. A half-million more Ohioans voted than ever before with fewer errors than four years ago, a sure sign of success by any measure."

[marions ghost]

7. Good article--BUT--does anyone else see this?

Thankful that at least the Globe published something positive about Bev Harris and Black Box Voting.

BUT --
-----------------
These 3 paragraphs are problematic:
----------------

"Those who believe that either or both of the past two presidential elections were manipulated by a vague conspiracy to elect Bush have done statistical analyses of voting patterns in Florida and argued that the voting discrepancies were much larger and systemic, but their studies have not stood up to scrutiny from academics and other analysts.

Most of the concerns, which have rocketed through the Internet, center on computerized voting or tabulating machines, including some that do not keep a paper record for audits and recounts. Some computer scientists acknowledge that these systems could be vulnerable to tampering.

"I would hesitate to take seriously the conspiracy theories, but there are certainly gaps and vulnerabilities that have got to be addressed," said DeForest B. Soaries, chairman of the US Election Assistance Commission, which was created by the 2002 law and plans to conduct hearings around the country on the voting."
-----------------

I wish the word "conspiracy" wasn't in there twice -- if you notice how it's used in this article...ve-ry tric-ky.

1. In the first PARA-- "vague conspiracy" refers to Republican operatives working together.

2. In the third PARA -- "conspiracy" refers to concerned citizens like us asking questions, ie. Kerry voters who want to analyze some of the disturbing patterns. "Conspiracy theorists" is a very negative spin.

------------
That's a MIXED MESSAGE if I ever saw one. If anybody writes to the Globe, you might want to mention this...that's if you do get what I'm driving at. Since people lock onto the word "conspiracy" like a magnet, this implies an equation between the two groups--Republicans and Kerry Supporters. It's subtle and if you think I'm crazy, send me to Media Spin Recovery, but I look for it everywhere now.

[pauldp]

8. We do have strong scientific evidence

"Those who believe that either or both of the past two presidential elections were manipulated by a vague conspiracy to elect Bush have done statistical analyses of voting patterns in Florida and argued that the voting discrepancies were much larger and systemic, but their studies have not stood up to scrutiny from academics and other analysts."

This is horsesh*t spin.

As far as I know the Berkley study is still valid, and Dr. Freemans latest paper out of U Penn strongly debunks his debunkers.

www.appliedresearch.us/sf/

[marions ghost]

9. Thanks for corroborating...

I know there was an early attempt to discredit one of the studies and I guess that's how they justify such a blanket falsehood, but I had an immediate "tilt" reaction to this statement. I think we have to start picking apart this media spin bit by bit, and calling them for every misleading word. No more leeway.

OK I will email the Globe about it for today's personal media watch effort. I'll give them pluses for Bev/BBV, but a Big Minus for this statement (and I'll send links to the studies). After what we've seen this year, I'm starting a file of these twists of the truth.
It's one strategy against insanity in a world where money rules.

I'm also going to call them on "conspiracy theories"...I think they should be more careful with that. (That's what all too many people WISH to hear--that this is all a bunch of nonsense and paranoia). After all, this is not an opinion piece, this is reported as straight journalism and has a certitude about it that most people trust.

[dougrhess]

10. where can i get the county (or lower level) national data?

Hi. New here and can't post until I've been around a bit, so I hope it's ok to ask here. Where can I find a spreadsheet with the 2004 results by county (or lower)? I know of places where I can do it one state at a time, but I assume some good soul has already done this and can give it out? Please? ;-) Thanks for any leads!


By the way, what happens if you look at 1988-2000 results and compare that to the 2004 results for these suspicious counties in Florida? If those counties are heavy Dem Reg but heavy Reb Vote, it might show up in the history of the counties.

[marions ghost]

17. Dunno right offhand but try this link

Since this topic has gone more into a media discussion
Try the DU link below:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x97510

--------------
The list you will find there seems to have a lot of statistical analyses. There have been many, many posts on the statistical end of the election here at DU, so keep trying. I'm sure somebody around here can easily answer your Q. Welcome to DU.

[newyawker99]

23. Hi dougrhess!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[pauldp]

11. Thanks for following up

We can't accept anymore dismissive remarks like that from the MSM.
They should either provide details or admit that there are legit concerns.

[Joe Chi Minh]

22. That sounds

really purposeful, marion's ghost. And so obviously necessary, it's the kind of thing we tend to overlook, while concentrating on diversions. I think it's definitely the way to go. Engage with the major media and set them straight (though I doubt they really need it). I'm actually inclined to suspect they're just being very judicious in a wicked environment.

[marions ghost]

13. OK, Here's my letter to Globe Ed

Editors, Boston Globe: I read your Dec 1 cover story, "Voting Errors Tallied Nationwide" by Brian Mooney with interest. It is refreshing to see the topic get some attention as a nationwide problem, since all we've been getting so far have been bits and pieces from local papers. As I'm sure you are aware, the coverage of these issues has been very poor in general in the media. I am glad to see some print journalists making the attempt, since I have given up on TV news as wholly unreliable, with the notable exception of C-Span.

Thanks for pointing out that the Help America Vote Act has not been sufficient to address our widespread and systemic problems. I further submit that it has helped only those determined to give us auditless voting in America. Also I appreciate your citing Bev Harris' work in Florida with Black Box Voting, which I have been following. I hope one day we see Bev on the cover of Time. Also thanks for debunking the Miami Herald for using three conservative counties as proof of election results for the whole state. So much for the Miami Herald and it's "team of reporters" who went to those counties.

What I really have a problem with in Brian Mooney's article is the assertion that the analyses of large voting discrepancies "have not stood up to scrutiny from academics and other analysts." It is far too soon to make such a blanket statement about these studies. I direct you to these particular links to recent studies and urge you to evaluate them. So far they have met no challenges, and have been well-received by peers.

http://www.appliedresearch.us/sf/ "The Unexplained Exit Poll Discrepancy--Freeman, U Penn

http://ucdata.berkeley.edu/new_web/VOTE2004/election04_WPwappendices.pdf ---Michael Hout, U Berkeley

Also I would appreciate more care with the term "conspiracy theories" to describe the skepticism that is out there. I submit that the skepticism is healthy and
should more rightly be called "a reasonable level of suspicion" in legal terms. Thanks for your continuing coverage of this important issue.

[mountebank]

12. "...votes intended for Kerry were for Bush, and vice versa."

What about this sentence?

"In Florida, some machines temporarily indicated votes intended for challenger John F. Kerry were for President Bush, and vice versa."

Any evidence votes intended for Bush were mistakenly recorded as votes for Kerry by touchscreens in Florida?

[marions ghost]

14. GOOD point

That slipped right by me and I didn't get it into the letter to the Globe posted above. Maybe I should write back and ask the writer what his "sources" were for that statement...

I NEVER heard any reports that there were any "vice versas" of any kind...Nah am not buying it. For one thing, there was no hue and cry and lawsuits over it.

[standingup]

15. I've only read

of votes for Kerry displaying Bush. But I have not gone through all of the database.

Anyone interested in checking the Election Incident Reporting System database can find it at https://voteprotect.org/index.php?display=EIRMapState&state=Florida&cat=ALL&tab=ALL">https://voteprotect.org/index.php?display=EIRMapState&state=Florida&cat=ALL&tab=ALL

[wlubin]

16. They probably found some guy to claim this happened to him.

This article is completely pro-bush!!

[marions ghost]

19. Well...not completely

Not sure I would agree it's totally pro-Bush. The Bev Harris section was good. The mention of the bogus Miami Herald report was good. The summary of the problems was reasonable, given that a lot of that info is still in process. No newspaper will mention anything like fraud or wrongdoing for fear of being sued. But at least they are now reporting the full extent of the problems.

Agreed--the article has flaws, and the part about analyses not holding up is the MOST damaging and unfair, which is why I wrote to the Globe.

The last lines seem to say "stay tuned.."

"This is not a fringe issue, because a sizable group is interested in pursuing this as a policy issue going forward..."There's now a critical mass of people involved who want to address the problems that occurred in 2004. This issue is not going to go away."
-----------

[mountebank]

18. Ok, here's their justification from later in the article....`

In South Florida's Broward County, "multiple misrecordings" occurred when votes for Kerry on touch-screens made by Election Systems & Software Inc. appeared as Bush votes, and there was at least one account of a Bush vote going to Kerry, the Verified Voting group reported.

********************

Always so balanced, our media. Balanced - to a fault.

[marions ghost]

21. Right it's that "balance" thing

...where "vice versa" can mean ONE Bush voter....

Yeah, right.

[StephanieMarie]

20. why does the graphic's title say year 2000 ? Is it really 2004?

I'm wondering.