Bev Harris Not Absolved

[AmyCrat]

Let me make it clear, I support the work she's doing. But I also think constructive criticism is how people IMPROVE on their efforts. When these kinds of articles are the response, I think it's important to make sure you aren't interrupting someone's retirement reception.

One more for LePore
http://www.bocaratonnews.com/index.php?src=news&category=Local%20News&prid=10311
<snip>---
(skip)

The woman who dealt with more than 50 lawsuits as chief of the county’s election department has to handle at least one more before she leaves office on Jan. 3.

Failing to comply
Black Box Voting, a Washington-based nonprofit elections watchdog group, filed suit against LePore this week, accusing her of failing to comply with a request for documents related to the Nov. 2, 2004 election.

LePore, however, said she was in touch with Bev Harris, executive director of Black Box Voting, just before Thanksgiving. “I told her we were estimating the cost of providing the documents. Once we got their check, I said we would start making the copies,” she told the Boca Raton News on Wednesday. The price tag could run from $3,000 to $5,000.

But the organization didn’t wait. It filed suit in Palm Beach County Circuit Court on Tuesday.

Leaders of the organization actually pursued LePore to Orlando, where she is attending a conference for election supervisors. They delivered the lawsuit Tuesday night, interrupting a reception where LePore was being honored as she prepares to leave office.
---<snip>

Read Entire Article

Like I said, I support BBV and think Bev has done amazing things. I just think they need to be careful not to get the reputation for being another unprofessional fanatic. Making noise to further the cause is a good thing. Making noise just to make noise is not.

Flame me if you must.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. Have you read Bev's explanation?

I recommend it.

[AmyCrat]

3. I've read it.

and it seems like playing "clean up" to me. Clean-ups always get page 17b news and if they are seen at all by anyone, it's a miracle.

[jamboi]

14. It looks like foot dragging by LePore to me. I think Bev was a bit overly

dramatic, but was well within her professional perview to serve papers even at the retirement party. I just would have quietly dropped it on her and left quietly, rather than making a scene.

[Donailin]

52. Making a scene got the story in the paper. Not making a scene. .

means no attention. Look, this is the deal: MSM is simply not picking this up, and KO said in essence tonight that Kerry is simply being respectful towards the party loyalists and quietly throwing his hat in the ring of vote recounts.


Anyone showing passion about this is looked at as unstable or a nut bar. Except one thing: who here is not fucking mad as hell? Who here is not ranting and raving as they read the headlines? Who here is in a constant state of anxiety wishing they could tell every stranger they meet, "The election was stolen, the election was stolen!" Who here looks at strangers and wonders, "Do they know that Bush stole the election?! They still have a Kerry Sticker on their car, should I honk at them and give them a briefing at the next traffic light?" C'mom! We are all going mad that Bush is getting away with this.

Who here is not worried to death that we may never get our country back, our government back into the hands of the people?

And finally, the people in Ukraine are making a helluva a scene. One Parliament official left the floor yesterday and went out side to the crowds and brought demonstrators into the building! It was outrageous, it was excellent. Why the hell aren't we ALL demanding attention??

[Kralizec]

2. Yeah this smells like rotten eggs to me... n/t

[aquart]

70. Me, too, dear.

I smell something very rotten in the ferocity of this doubt attack. I mean, it's all over the board tonight. Being pushed by the same people over and over and over and over.

Building up their post counts.

[Cobalt Violet]

4. LaWhore?

Cry me a f*ckin' river for her. Boo f*ckin' Hoo.

[AmyCrat]

5. didn't say you should

nor should anyone feel sorry for her. But people will STILL think it's wrong to seek to embarrass her to do something an attorney could have done privately and just as effectively.

They were trying to get media coverage, and they did. But it's not the kind they should want to get (IMO).

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

7. What kind is right?

Especially in this poisonous media climate?

No amount of reasonable mien will be enough, Amy. They will yawn and then toddle off to find some minor administration factotum to fellate.

[Cobalt Violet]

8. I don't care what people will STILL think.

I don't care at all. She could have avoided the embarrassment and she chose to do things that lead to her own embarrassment. I think it was great. These people deserve to be treated like the shit they are.

[anamandujano]

18. Lepore should be embarrassed by her own actions.

She's a menace to the future of democracy. So bev didn't trust her, fine with me.

--go Jessie go--

[catnhatnh]

6. Mea Culpa,Mea Culpa,Mea maxima Culpa...

...Yep,see your point.Can you see mine?Seems we're allowing others to define the frame....that's my main problem....not that we're innocent...just that (THEY) are so MUCH more freekin' guilty!!

[AmyCrat]

10. There's a difference between being slick and being stupid

Harsh as it sound (the word stupid).

Sneaky? Underhanded? You can be those things without getting egg on your face. How do you think Bush has maintained ANY support in the last 4 years? It how you execute it and then spin in.

The flaw wasn't the plan as much as the executive and subsequent spin, of which they have yet to successfully control.

[anamandujano]

21. Bush doesn't have any support beyond the whore press

and a few loons.

--go Jessie go--

[smartvoter]

62. Wish you were right, but the other half of the country supports him.

[Carolab]

15. Oh, you mean how

They keep making us the victims?

Well how did you think it would play out in a banana republic? That we'd get fair and equal treatment?

I understand what Bev did and I don't blame her. She's been trying to get people to pay attention and talk about all of this for so long and people keep looking the other way. As she said "since we can't get your attention any other way"...

[papau]

9. Service of papers is not easy if LaPore hides

this was obviously efficient and sent a message to the many other counties that are trying to ignore a legal request.

the "retirement part interruption is super evil" idea is just GOP spin.

[tbuddha]

12. I'd like to think it was a slap in the face

they most certainly deserve it.

[AmyCrat]

13. GOP spin BBV walked into unneccessarily n/t

[Patsy Stone]

36. I think

you're right on here...Alls I'm sayin' is: "I voted for the $87 billion, before I voted against it."

Spin begins and then it spins and spins...

[aquart]

68. Bev will ALWAYS be spun negatively. ALWAYS.

Unless she's polite and quiet and goes away like a good little woman.

And you've picked up their negative spin and run with it. Have you thought of negating the spin by cheering her on? Thought not. You're letting CNN tell you what to think.

You're so flaming negative all over this board a person could worry that you're a paid operative, I swear. When really it's only your certified CNN opinion.

[Helga Scow Stern]

17. Yes, getting their feelings hurt again by us evil liberals...

just like when Kerry mentioned that Cheney's daughter was a lesbian.
They criticize every move we make.

[Cobalt Violet]

26. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

So let the repukes whine all they want. Boo Hoo.

[SueZhope]

45. Yes thats so true

And the sad thing is we cant win with those spinsters

..no matter what we do they will spin it.
It seems that the only thing left to do is be good boys and girls
and never think outside the box...they roll out red carpets for the swift boat liars

Bev was just trying to get results

[tbuddha]

11. It was important that she serve her papers right away

Even more important that they got it all on camera. Seems to me we have control over the Florida Supreme Court, and Rehnquist might not be able to take the stress. If the Supreme Court can't rule, it drops back to the state. Let's win florida.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

60. The original papers were served that morning in Palm Beach County.

Bev only served "courtesy papers" in Orlando.

[Freddie Stubbs]

16. 50 lawsuits?

I wonder how many she has lost. Anyone know? :shrug:

[geo]

19. A good retirement party should mark the highlights of one's

career. It was a little Days of Our Lives to rush in like that, but I'm glad to see Bev could help mark the moment. :) -G

[ccarter84]

20. poor taste...lots of witnesses though

I don't really think bev even apologized for the event on her site...even if it wasn't totally described as an awards ceremony...maybe stake out the place and get a feel for it before you go barging in there (with video cam?)

thats my 2 cents
-CC

[jhgatiss]

22. I personally say, "Go Bev!"

I think its disgraceful that they are honoring a woman who is incapable of complying with basic open government laws like the Freedom of Information Act. Given her flaunting of that law, I can't imagine her working as an election fraud auditor for six months before her retirement. That is just too much! I hope some of these people get pasted to the wall. Someone needs to do the same in Ohio with Katherine Blackwell. Her decision to withhold the precinct books from inspection until after the certification is completely unjust. Haven't these people heard of photocopiers? Oh, wait! You don't want to make a copy of the book if you need to forge signatures in all the books for the fake ballots that you made!

[righteous1]

23. One of the biggest problems we have is making the

transition from the "fringe" into the mainstream. This type of behavior does most definately not help

[Donailin]

55. r u kidding???

in case you haven't noticed, Bush has ALWAYS painted us dems as the fringe, but we're not! They want you to believe we are, BUT WE'RE NOT. WE WON that damn election, no one will be able to tell me otherwise. The fringe stole it in 2000 and stole it again in 2004. We, the overhwlming majority, WON. It's the fringe that is fighting the magnifying glass on the votes, it is the fringe that is against any kind of recount. it is the fringe that has everything to lose because they fucking cheated!

Don't let them brainwash you into thinking you're the fringe, if they succeed at that, they've won. Ask Hitler.

(I'm not yelling at you personally, I'm just yelling :-) )

[AgadorSparticus]

24. WAY TO GO BEV!! I think it was a brilliant move. Unless she caves

in and drops any ambitions of getting to the bottom of election fraud, the media will ALWAYS spin whatever she does. Let em. She is a fighter and didn't get all that she has done by walking on eggshells.

[AmyCrat]

27. "Let em" ???

If she doesn't get someone from the media on her side, she could find blatant proof of fraud and it won't matter. If people don't KNOW about it because the MSM think she's the same as a UFO Conspiracy Nut and won't cover it, it won't make a bit of difference.

Play the spin game intelligently if you want people on your side.

[Cobalt Violet]

31. If she finds blatant proof it won't be up to the MSM to do squat about it.

[catnhatnh]

42. Amy....

....you are ABSOLUTELY right and I have really only grabbed people by their emotions.But it did catch me by mine.The smart thing is definitely your way and the easy way is mine....but since it is over and done I'll support the only dog we have in this fight...please join me??

[AgadorSparticus]

43. you really think you can play the media spin game and get them on

your side??? they have their marching orders. and ANYONE or ANYTHING that can be perceived as a threat to bushco's interests will be discredited promptly. they are like freaking cyborgs.

[RedEagle]

44. AmyCrat, tell me how you would "beat" the system?

For example, the voting issue was labeled "conspiracy" just as soon as someone began looking into it and got press on it. Bingo. Put that label on it and used it from there on.

We don't control the press. Journalists don't control what they get to report.

Rebecca Mecuri and Peter Neumann spent 10 years trying to make headway on the dangers of computerized voting. They worked the "system," just like they were supposed to and got little notice.

Please tell us how to beat they system when the system is used for containment?

Follow the directions, do it properly, .... all the "right" ways of trying to make progress- tell me how to gain ground in a system that is meant to contain, delay, discourage, and empty pockets before any ground is gained?

They WANT you to follow procedure, behave like nice citizens, believe that you can work through the system, their way with their protocals, to justice.

And five years from now, when you're only half way through and the government is controlled by one party, the courts are packed, and the media is even more consolidated and "on message," what will you have gained?

Please, I need some specifics, timelines and what you expect to accomplish in the better way that you see.

After over two years, lots of evidence, and the recent multitudes of problems with the last election, the media is still not investigating, not reporting.

If we can't get the media moving on that, how are we to get them on "our side" at all?

If you have a plan, I'd like to hear it.

I'd also like to hear how you would control spin, since, I assume, you don't control the media. How do you get your message out if you can't control how the media delivers that message, won't present both sides of the issues?

How do you control spin that is used against you no matter what, how, when, where, or when you do someting?

[AmyCrat]

51. I'll reply to you here too (duplicate reply from other thread)

This is your mistake...

You're hearing me as saying "Follow the directions, do it properly, .... all the 'right' ways of trying to make progress" as if I'm saying don't be slick, don't be smart, don't play the media fiddle or play the game. Yeah, lets play the game at the same level as them -- SMART.

Clinton was impeached but he was still well liked. His approval ratings were good. He was not removed from office. His PR machine was a huge part of all of that.

I don't pretend to think it's EASY to infiltrate the media -- but we have someone on our side right at this moment who is part of the machine. Going out and giving him a reason to question the chosen methods of BBV just was not a SMART decision... and that played out on TV tonight.

There's been some momentum. Yes, a lot have mentioned tin-foil hats and conspiracy theories... so we should take actions that give them more reason to say those same things? I hope not. Bad publicity is not "good publicity" in this case.

Specifics? I don't have them. Give me lots of money in donations and time to work on it and maybe I could come up with some specifics. I know I'm as frustrated as a lot of people around here, and it makes me all the more frustrated to have one of those only organizations, BBV, walk into a trap that leads to discrediting them further. I did give some specifics about this situation already.

The repubs are good at spin and PR. Maybe we should take some lessons from THAT cause the dems SUCK at it. Whether I want to know it or not, I always know the republican talking point of the day, but the personalities on Air America can't even agree there was fraud.

I'm off on a tangent now (LOL)... but thanks for asking. Read "All The President's Spin" and you'll learn a lot about how the media has been used by many-a-president, right back to Nixon (though Regan polished it, Clinton refined it, and Bush took it to a whole new level). It's POSSIBLE if we play it SMART.

[AmyCrat]

54. and let me add THIS

perfect opportunity for GOOD MSM coverage and she's blowing it...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x100284

[Donailin]

59. Precisely!

You hit the nail on the head.

Let's just follow the Ukraine's lead and raise bloody hell all over the place.

We're tin foil hatters, we're conspiracy theorists, we're sore losers. Well, I'll say one thing: We have nothing left to lose!

Bev was right on, and again, who could say that they wouldn't have done the same thing? Walk a mile in her shoes, or in her case, three thousand miles!

[Donailin]

57. but they cheat at the game.

how do you cheat cheaters?

[aquart]

69. Boy, you're really pushing the Bev doubt.

Like, like it's your mission or something.

[johnaries]

25. Her experience in Volusia SHOULD have gotten attention...

but since it didn't, I believe some "grandstanding" was in order! I understand your concern about credibility, but until these issues are brought to the public's attention credibility is a non-issue. Once we have the attention of the public, THEN we can worry about credibility.

Look at BuShit's strategies. I definitely feel that we are above those tactics, and the Truth will win out. But, only if the Truth has the chance to be Heard!

I LIKE BEV's APPROACH! GO BEV :yourock:

[BringEmOn]

28. Hell, they should have presented LePore with a butterfly cake.

[goclark]

29. Not flaming at all but

They do stuff like that all the time.

Have you noticed that what ever we do, it is always wrong in their eyes?

We can do nothing right because they are bullies and they have whipped us into the ground.

What Bev did was exactly what this vile women, LEPORE, who has stolen the votes of our citizens. What could be more low down than that act!

Maybe if we had acted up and acted out when the Fraud Election took place, we would have been in the WH in January.

As far as I'm concerned, she deserved a Retirement party in a cell next to Martha Stewart. In fact,FREE MARTHA! LEG IRONS FOR LePORE!

[Maddy McCall]

30. Bev is an attention hound for herself. She sold Clinton Cigars...

on her website during the impeachment scandal. She also stated that she had never voted before the 2000 election.

The more you learn about her, the less you like her.

[AmyCrat]

32. Well I'm not looking to tear her down

..just to call a mistake a mistake, so it can be improved on for next time. I can't speak to the things you are talking about, but I wouldn't have known about "votergate" without her site, and to that I have to give her credit.

I just want to see her play is SMART

[Maddy McCall]

34. Playing smart is something of which she is incapable...

Most of us who have been at DU a long time have wised up to her antics.

Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see, where she's concerned.

[bigmonkey]

33. The GOP makes this kind of thing necessary.

They deliberately structure their activities so that politeness will never get through. Then, when you have to push the politeness envelope, they call you on rudeness. If you want to get anything done, you just have to expect this kind of outcome. Remember the target is seldom the innocent they portray themselves to be, and the excess is something they themselves have likely made necessary. Of course the specifics of the awkward situation could have been better in retrospect, that will always be the case. But this kind of pushiness would never be required if the GOP acted in a normally professional, evenhanded way.

[AmyCrat]

37. yeah, well we're not playing by their rules either

Like I said in the other thread, looking stupid is just looking stupid... it's isn't playing at the same level. You can be strong and firm, you can be sneaky if you need to be, you can play underhanded tricks if that's all that gets the job done... but ya know what, be SMART about it. Don't open yourself up to lame-ass criticism and walk into exactly the type of spin that discredits you.

[Ladyhawk]

35. I saw her come here and threaten to sue DU over NOTHING.

Three people on DU whom I respect have expressed doubts about Bev Harris. I also saw her freak out and threaten to sue DU over a silly "name" dispute. This has made me wonder what Bev's true agenda is. I don't like feeling this way because few others are standing up for transparent voting, but I can't help the way I feel. I watch what people do to find out whether or not they are trustworthy and unfortunately, I'm starting to suspect her.

Sigh. I hope she's for real, but my gut tells me not to send her any more money. It really saddens me because I don't know whom to trust. We need a leader we can trust and we really don't have one. Kerry bailed. I don't think he's coming back. I don't really trust Nader...Cobb? Badnarik?

I just don't know. :(

[politicasista]

38. She seems fishy..

[senseandsensibility]

39. She seems "fishy?"

Wow. Impressive argument. Gee, with logic like that, let's just turn our backs on Bev while she's out there busting her butt for us. Yeah... that's the ticket. :eyes:

[IAMREALITY]

41. Thanks for saving me the trouble

:toast:

[senseandsensibility]

46. Anything I can do

to help the cause!:toast:

[SueZhope]

48. I get were you are coming from

I'm newer so I do not know her history other then the strange posts I have been reading.
It seems that many of the old timers seem to be ok with her(even if she is not perfect) because of her work.

many others seem to feel Burned by her and bash her

its hard to know who to trust in life....there are so many parts to a
story when it comes to people and there experiences with other people

Hard to know the good guys from the bad guys just
when you believe in someone they often turn out to not
what they seemed to be....im keeping an open mind about Bev
her work is needed

[pointsoflight]

40. Here's one thing to consider....

If Bev hadn't done it this way, would the lawsuit have been covered ANYWHERE in mainstream media? I doubt it. Her earlier lawsuit was barely even mentioned in a local paper and didn't get covered anywhere else.

[AmyCrat]

47. so you conclude negative publicity is better than none?

I don't agree.
PLAY THE GAME SMART -- she could have just as easily served the papers with cameras running AFTER the event. She could let the lawyers do their job and spend her time issuing cleverly composed press releases to every media outlet possible, especially the ones that that are liberal leaning and will take the talking points (how about Keith Olbermann? He might have covered it more fairly if it didn't come across as such a screw-up).

Controversial publicity works for Madonna, but not election fraud. If we're already talking about slimey behavior, and that's what you're trying to expose, don't get caught acting slimey yourself.

[Patsy Stone]

53. Go to Bloggerman thread...It's like I say it here, and it comes

out there...you and me, girl, we're psychic.

[googly]

67. You are my type of democrat. Have you considered running?

[Donailin]

49. what would MLK do?

what would Ghandi do?

What would Malcolm X do?

What would Karl Rove do?

What would I do?

"In your face! It feels so good!" :headbang:

I'd do what Bev did, but I'm pretty passionate too, not too well known for being stoic about such things. Also, I will not cast any stones here as I sit comfortably at my computer by the fire having a cappucino while Bev is schlepping across the country having to deal with the most dishonest and devious people that America has known. That she hasn't choked the shit out of someone by now is miraculous, quite frankly.

[mdb]

50. Guess what? LePore has been served. As far as KO...

He seems more upset because Bev has not had time to go on his show than anything else. Next subject please. As Repubs have been saying recently, now can we move on?

[AmyCrat]

56. In case your interested

this is important because a great deal of "our fight" depends on BBV. And guess what? I donated money to them, so if I think they are mismanaging themselves I have the right to say so, with the HOPE they are open-minded enough to listen to it. With knowledge, you grow.

And why WOULDN'T Bev want to go on Keith's show? That's a stupid opportunity to ignore, avoid or say you don't have time for. FIND the time. It's one of the only MSM outlets available right now.

[AmyCrat]

58. and another thing...

Bev coulda spent her time going on Olbermann rather than dressing as "hired help" to crash a retirement party, and giving critics more reason to flame her. An attorney could have served the papers while she could have been using the main stream media to her advantage.

[catnhatnh]

61. Right on about all points...

...It would be fun to fight...I'll finish with this,we can't change today and tomorrow remains a dream...so let us both realize our fondest dreams on this morrow......

[mdb]

65. KO does make a good point. And so do you.

KO writes:

"she may also have an interest in making her own documentary, on her own schedule, for her own purposes".

But I would like to add Bev seems sincere in what she is doing and she has shown the determination to do what needs to be done.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

63. Keith Olbermann was Very Clear. He felt that she was an important voice

To have on, and maybe she would be able to show people just how easily voting fraud could happen. Here she was in perfect position, through mainstream media, with one of the top rated shows now, to get the message out there. Why didn't she?

BTW...the official papers were served that morning in Palm Beach County. What Bev did was for attention. I think it was a stunt that caused a great deal of harm to her credibility. According to a friend of mine in Florida, it is getting very negative comments down there. Even a Liberal station didn't care for the tactic.

I can see it though, very easily be a scene in Michael Moore's film about the 2004 election.... Maybe that's why the cameras were rolling?

[anamandujano]

71. She didn't miss being on his show tonight

so the partycrashing didn't interfere with a previously set engagement.

He has just sent out an urgent call for her to be on Countdown, the first any of us have heard of it. They need to talk now and set a date asap, if not sooner.

[Vinnie From Indy]

64. Why Do We ALWAYS insist on bringing Knives to Gunfights

I have lurked for a long time and I finally read a post that compelled me to reply. I am stunned that anyone would make the argument that Bev Harris should be embarrassed or that she should rethink her tactics after the highly reported on LePore incident in Orlando. The fact is that the media today is already broken. It would seem obvious that the mainstream media has abundantly demonstrated it's lack of will to report honestly on most every issue relating to Bush. In fact, they have actively promoted known falsehoods in service of the Bushies for several years. After what "the press" did to Kerry and Gore does anyone really believe that Bev Harris would ever get a fair shake regardless of the civility and politeness of her tactics? Even if she played nice, as some on this thread advocate, the whore press would still demonize her or actively report on whatever bit of manufactured slime was created by Rove and delivered to them. If we are anything in this fight, let us not be ignorant of the field of battle on which we are fighting. The mainstream press IS going to ridicule, demonize and ignore issues as they are instructed by their masters. The press is going to give platforms to known liars and charlatans to denigrate people like Bev. To say that she "risks" our struggle because she has the stones to stand up publicly and suffer the slings and arrows in the course of a noble endeavor is not the posture that will defeat this evil band of criminals, Does anyone believe Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, Beck, Boortz, Hume, Scarborough, Savage, Dr. Laura, Safire, Carlson etc. have ever been embarrassed for a single millisecond as they spew lie after lie into the ether? Wringing our hands and discussing the response of the media to Bev Harris's stunt in Florida is indicative of the inability of many of us on the left to fully comprehend the lay of the land. We do not control the mainstream media beyond a few scattered outposts and we must realize that pretty much all of our efforts will face intense media ridicule. I salute Bev for being a symbol that there are some of us on the left that are willing to get beyond the paralysis of politeness and into the mud.

[johnaries]

66. AMEN!

although it would have been easier to read if you had broken it up into paragraphs. Still, RIGHT ON, BROTHER! :headbang:

[tandem5]

72. welcome...

you'll probably note as your post count goes up your post content will get substantially shorter and less meaningful.